Are the Pannys brighter than the Samsung's now? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 06-14-2012, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Isn't that a bit of a reversal?

I'm trying to help a friend shop for a TV and I thought the Samsung E650 would be a good choice, but I've read several reviews saying they are a bit dim. Is that due to the new filter they've come up with?

If it's problematically dim, I might steer him towards a lower end Panny. I have a Samsung D7000 and love the picture, though I have the cell light juiced to 20 just because.

Thanks in advance for replies.
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post #2 of 8 Old 06-14-2012, 02:48 PM
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Yes, they're significantly brighter than this year's E-series Samsungs (which may have been intentionally limited in brightness according to cnet, since they can't match the D). In fact, this year's Panasonics are also much brighter than Samsung's D series. Don't think it has anything to do with the filter.

BTW, it was also recently revealed that the cell setting on Samsung plasmas is a bogus control and the best setting is the maximum (20). There's no need for it anyway because you can control the peak output with brightness and contrast just fine, however with cell at 20 and peak adjusted to something not obnoxiously bright, you will have a harder time with grayscale calibration (misalignment of 10pt controls) unless you make adjustments in the SM using the emulator.
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post #3 of 8 Old 06-14-2012, 03:30 PM
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As far as I've seen with my eyes panasonic plasmas @ vivid or dynamic mode are always significantly brighter than samsung plasmas@store mode but Apparently this year they're brighter than samsung on all modes.
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post #4 of 8 Old 06-14-2012, 03:38 PM
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Go into the store and decide for yourself. Play with the settings I did, and my results conflicted with what CNET said.

I think you'll find the Samsung's appear just as bright or brighter when calibrated to 35-37fL. They use a different drive mechanism that makes scenes appear brighter. So even though peak white is measured at "x" they will appear brighter. I think Chad also mentions this in his review.

-SiGGy
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post #5 of 8 Old 06-14-2012, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

Yes, they're significantly brighter than this year's E-series Samsungs (which may have been intentionally limited in brightness according to cnet, since they can't match the D). In fact, this year's Panasonics are also much brighter than Samsung's D series. Don't think it has anything to do with the filter.
BTW, it was also recently revealed that the cell setting on Samsung plasmas is a bogus control and the best setting is the maximum (20). There's no need for it anyway because you can control the peak output with brightness and contrast just fine, however with cell at 20 and peak adjusted to something not obnoxiously bright, you will have a harder time with grayscale calibration (misalignment of 10pt controls) unless you make adjustments in the SM using the emulator.

Where did you get these ideas? From what i have read, the difference between 50's and e's are small and im not sure 50 series is brighter than d-series at all.

Here are some brightness measurements from reviews:

flatpanels hd:

D8000 126 cd/m2
GT50 106 cd/m2
VT50 97 cd/m2

hdtvtest.co.uk

Thanks to the [Cell Light] control, Samsung Plasma TVs can go as high as 219 cd/m2, without any rise in black level.

avforums:

PS64D8000 measured 119.5cd/m2 and could have gone even higher.

Panasonic claim to have boosted the brightness on their plasmas this year and whilst the P50ST50B was certainly brighter in its calibrated mode, it still struggled to get above 90 cd/m2 and was thus robbed of some of its dynamic range. However this is a minor quibble and overall the P50ST50B produced an absolutely superb image.

hdtv shootout:

E8000 34.7 fl
VT50 33 fl

So what you say sounds like false information to me. Panasonic 2012 models are much brighter than 2011 models, but they are not brighter than d-series Samsungs and E-series should be only 10-15 dimmer than d-series.
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post #6 of 8 Old 06-15-2012, 07:10 AM
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hi
1st sorry if my english is very bad tongue.gif

I believe that Panasonic plasmas have a higher potential to deliver more brightness than other plasmas specially on store modes like "vivid" they are realy comparable with lcd tvs in term of brightness but on adjustable modes such as professional they are limited.
all brightness measurements from avforums , flatpanleshd & hdtv test are after calibration for example on flat panels hd:
VT30 calibrated settings
Picture preset: Professional1
Contrast 36
Brightness +2
Colour: 30
Sharpness: 3
Color Remaster: Off
Eco Off
P-NR Off
Gamma 2.2
Intelligen Frame Creation On/Off
Resolution Enhancer Off
16:9 Overscan Off
R-Gain -4
G-Gain -4
B-Gain +4
R-Cutoff 0
G-Cutoff 0
B-Cutoff +1

D8000 calibrated settings:
Picture preset: Movie
Cell light 15
Contrast 86
Brightness: 53
Sharpness: 5
Tint: G50/G50
Black Tone Off
Dynamic Contrast Off
Gamma 0
Colour Space Native
Flesh Tone 0
Edge enhancement Off
Motion lighting Off
xvYCC Off
Color tone Warm2
Digital Noise Filter Off
MPEG Noise Filter Off
Digital Noise Filter Off
HDMI Black level Low
Film mode Off
Size Screen Fit
R-Offset 24
G-Offset 24
B-Offset 28
R-Gain 28
G-Gain 22
B-Gain 29

if u want more brightness and more contrast from panasonic plasma tvs and color accuracy is not very important you can set contrast and "panel brightness" (only available on us model) to higher level.
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post #7 of 8 Old 06-15-2012, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtm79 View Post

Where did you get these ideas? From what i have read, the difference between 50's and e's are small and im not sure 50 series is brighter than d-series at all.
Here are some brightness measurements from reviews:
flatpanels hd:
D8000 126 cd/m2
GT50 106 cd/m2
VT50 97 cd/m2
hdtvtest.co.uk
Thanks to the [Cell Light] control, Samsung Plasma TVs can go as high as 219 cd/m2, without any rise in black level.
avforums:
PS64D8000 measured 119.5cd/m2 and could have gone even higher.
Panasonic claim to have boosted the brightness on their plasmas this year and whilst the P50ST50B was certainly brighter in its calibrated mode, it still struggled to get above 90 cd/m2 and was thus robbed of some of its dynamic range. However this is a minor quibble and overall the P50ST50B produced an absolutely superb image.
hdtv shootout:
E8000 34.7 fl
VT50 33 fl
So what you say sounds like false information to me. Panasonic 2012 models are much brighter than 2011 models, but they are not brighter than d-series Samsungs and E-series should be only 10-15 dimmer than d-series.

I'm talking about full field measurements of brightness, which I have read were something like 50% higher than the D series on the ST50. You may be quoting window measurements there, which will not be as strongly affected by the ABL, so things even out. As Siggy mentions, there may be more to it that that, but I have read Chad's ST50 review and thought he confirmed that it was brighter than anything else by a good bit. Let me check again...

As for Samsung's cell setting, have a look at this:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409186/backlight-and-contrast-adjustment#post_22091726
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post #8 of 8 Old 06-15-2012, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtm79 View Post

So what you say sounds like false information to me. Panasonic 2012 models are much brighter than 2011 models, but they are not brighter than d-series Samsungs and E-series should be only 10-15 dimmer than d-series.
EU displays are not NA displays. The NA ST and GT50 are brighter than both the D and E series Samsungs. The NA VT50 would be their equal.
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