CNET burn in test - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 42 Old 07-13-2012, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57449881-221/samsung-plasma-wins-cnets-accidental-burn-in-test/




I found this to be interesting.
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post #2 of 42 Old 07-13-2012, 03:12 PM
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I have a 3 week old Samsung 43" PN43E450 and have not even a hint
of IR or even a trace of it and I do pause the DVR for 30 min quite often
plus watching a lot of Encore HD with the solid white logo.
It must have something to do with this years 'Real Black Filter'
and Clear Image panel for the e450, e530, e550, and the
Micro Dimming panel on the e6500 and e8000.
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post #3 of 42 Old 07-13-2012, 03:12 PM
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The problem with this test was the fact that the sets were brand new and not even broken in yet. When I bought my Panasonic plasma 2 years ago stubborn Image retention (I don't like to use the term 'burn in' since it should apply to permanent IR, which is fairly rare these days with most pdp's) was some what problematic, especially with sports score tickers like the one used on the YES channel. Running a white snowy screen for several days eventually cleaned up the image, and now that the set has some mileage on it, I watch YES, ESPN, tons of movies with letter boxing and IR is no longer an issue for me.


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post #4 of 42 Old 07-13-2012, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

The problem with this test was the fact that none of the sets were broken in yet. When I bought my Panasonic plasma 2 years ago stubborn Image retention (I don't like to use the term 'burn in' since it should apply to permanent IR, which is pretty rare these days with most pdp's) was some what problematic, especially with sports score tickers like the one used on the YES channel. Running a white snowy screen for several days eventually cleaned up the image, and now that the set has some mileage on it, I watch YES, ESPN, tons of movies with letter boxing and IR is no longer an issue for me.
Ian

Samsung sells more PDP's than Panasonic
yet I don't see owners complaing about IR.
Buzzing yes but not IR.
Besides none of the sets were 'broken in' so that would be the best way to test
otherwise HOW they were 'broken in' would then be a grey area and problematic for the test.
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post #5 of 42 Old 07-13-2012, 03:32 PM
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Samsung won the test by not showing evidence of burn in.
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post #6 of 42 Old 07-13-2012, 04:30 PM
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It would be interesting to perform the same test after all TVs had active use of 1000 hours.
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post #7 of 42 Old 07-13-2012, 05:42 PM
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Ive left a static image on my Kuro 5080HD for a several hours (accidentally) and the resulting image retention went away within 5 minutes of watching other material.

I was pretty impressed by this especially considering its a 2007 model.

The static image was from the Hydro Thunder title screen (xbox360) which just sits there until you press start (literally). I could still make out "press start" and some other outlines when viewing a blank input but once I switched to a cable tv channel it disappeared within 5 minutes.

Also worth noting when this happened the TV was around 2 years old so it wasn't a 'new out of box' incident.
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post #8 of 42 Old 07-16-2012, 01:45 PM
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I think CNET's test was very unfair. If I read that article correctly, they had the Panasonic's in THX mode. It is my understanding that THX mode disables the pixel orbiter on a Panasonic. If that was the case and "Movie" mode doesn't on a Samsung. Well, you get mt point. Do over time smile.gif

Question is does a Samsung in "Movie" mode disable it's pixel orbiter?
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post #9 of 42 Old 07-16-2012, 03:30 PM
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"Movie" mode does not disable the pixel orbiter. Unfair? According to most opinions on this forum, the pixel orbiter does nothing to prevent image retention/burn in. Same goes for the scroll bar. Sour grapes or misinformed. Take your pick.
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post #10 of 42 Old 07-16-2012, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyislesfan View Post

I think CNET's test was very unfair. If I read that article correctly, they had the Panasonic's in THX mode. It is my understanding that THX mode disables the pixel orbiter on a Panasonic. If that was the case and "Movie" mode doesn't on a Samsung. Well, you get mt point. Do over time smile.gif
Question is does a Samsung in "Movie" mode disable it's pixel orbiter?

No, none of the modes do.
However........'Screen Fit' does disable pixel orbiter and it's the default setting after 4:3 then 16:9 then movie fit 1 & 2.
I don't see why CNET would have had it set to 16:9 since it makes the picture slightly larger
than Screen Fit (almost looks like a stretch mode. I check often to make sure mine is on Screen Fit.
More proof that 'pixel orbiter' does little or nothing to prevent IR.
Probably added for legal reasons and it's good for PR.
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post #11 of 42 Old 07-16-2012, 04:27 PM
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The fact that the Panasonic TVs got image retention after a static screen for 8 hours is hardly surprising. It would have been better if they had held onto the TV and continued this accidental test so that actual conclusions could be made, but they didn't. To my knowledge pixel orbiter does shut off with THX on the Panasonic. I personally use the pixel orbiter because I believe it does have a beneficial impact. Regardless, the most notable info provided is that the Samsung didn't have any image retention at all, which is a great find.
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post #12 of 42 Old 07-16-2012, 04:55 PM
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Yep....this years Sammys 'Real Black Panel' kicks ass dude!
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post #13 of 42 Old 07-16-2012, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swillis55 View Post

"Movie" mode does not disable the pixel orbiter. Unfair? According to most opinions on this forum, the pixel orbiter does nothing to prevent image retention/burn in. Same goes for the scroll bar. Sour grapes or misinformed. Take your pick.

How true!
If any manufactures so called 'pixel orbiter' really did prevent IR it would never be a issue with any plasma TV.
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post #14 of 42 Old 07-16-2012, 05:22 PM
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It HELPS prevent IR.

Pioneer KRP-500m
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post #15 of 42 Old 07-16-2012, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfoltz View Post

The fact that the Panasonic TVs got image retention after a static screen for 8 hours is hardly surprising. It would have been better if they had held onto the TV and continued this accidental test so that actual conclusions could be made, but they didn't. To my knowledge pixel orbiter does shut off with THX on the Panasonic. I personally use the pixel orbiter because I believe it does have a beneficial impact. Regardless, the most notable info provided is that the Samsung didn't have any image retention at all, which is a great find.


Not that this really matters but is this for just the 2012 models or does it include the 2011 as well? I've got the GT30 55" and I alter between both custom (using Dave_O's settings) and THX in gaming. In THX mode the picture actually expands around 1/2"-3/4". I keep the P.O engaged.
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post #16 of 42 Old 07-16-2012, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Pixel Orbitor is nothing more than a marketing gimmick. Absolutely nothing!
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post #17 of 42 Old 07-17-2012, 09:20 AM
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^It's not nothing, it does intermittently move the image on the screen. Whether you like this feature or not is a separate issue, but it definitely does do something.
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post #18 of 42 Old 07-17-2012, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR.DTS View Post

Not that this really matters but is this for just the 2012 models or does it include the 2011 as well? I've got the GT30 55" and I alter between both custom (using Dave_O's settings) and THX in gaming. In THX mode the picture actually expands around 1/2"-3/4". I keep the P.O engaged.

2011 as well.
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post #19 of 42 Old 07-17-2012, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

It HELPS prevent IR.

Not really. What is does do is blur the boundaries making IR a bit less distinct.
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post #20 of 42 Old 07-17-2012, 09:59 AM
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Sonyfan, IR/burn has nothing to do with the "Real Black Filter", that is simply Samsung's glare rejection technology (louvered filter with AR coating). The difference is likely related to the phosphor and/or electrode materials each company uses. While it's true that most plasmas have greatly reduced IR after "break-in", that can take up to 1000 hours or more from what I've read, so this result is significant. I'd imagine Cnet was using screen fit in movie mode, which would disable the orbiter (which doesn't work very well from what I've read anyway).
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post #21 of 42 Old 07-17-2012, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

Sonyfan, IR/burn has nothing to do with the "Real Black Filter", that is simply Samsung's glare rejection technology (louvered filter with AR coating). The difference is likely related to the phosphor and/or electrode materials each company uses. While it's true that most plasmas have greatly reduced IR after "break-in", that can take up to 1000 hours or more from what I've read, so this result is significant. I'd imagine Cnet was using screen fit in movie mode, which would disable the orbiter (which doesn't work very well from what I've read anyway).


I think the new Real Black Panel is a big deal but the confusion will be in the names.

Check the Samsung 2012 Plasma Step Chart.

http://ramsaysmarthomes.ca/info/Samsung%202012%20Panel%20Chart.pdf

For 2012 Samsung calls it 'Real Black Panel' and 'Real Black Panel Pro' for the E6500 and E8000.
For anti-reflective filter they call it 'Clear Image' filter and 'Micro Dimming' filter for the E6500 and E8000.
Micro Dimming is used in their LED TV's and now the term is used to name the filter
for the top two plasmas E6500 and E8000.
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post #22 of 42 Old 07-17-2012, 11:32 AM
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What Samsung called the "Real Black Panel" in 2011 is now called "Real Black Panel Pro" for 2012. Meanwhile the claim all 2012 TVs have the "Real Black Panel" which does nothing except mislead customers into thinking their 2012 model TV has the same fancy glass and IR that was only available on the high end 2011 models.

A lot of the early feedback after Samsung announced the 2012 models was from excited people talking about Samsung using the high end panel treatments on the low end TV "Wow, EVERYTHING has the Real Black Panel" now. Nope, just Samsung playing marketing games to try increasing sales.
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post #23 of 42 Old 07-17-2012, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocellaris View Post

What Samsung called the "Real Black Panel" in 2011 is now called "Real Black Panel Pro" for 2012. Meanwhile the claim all 2012 TVs have the "Real Black Panel" which does nothing except mislead customers into thinking their 2012 model TV has the same fancy glass and IR that was only available on the high end 2011 models.
A lot of the early feedback after Samsung announced the 2012 models was from excited people talking about Samsung using the high end panel treatments on the low end TV "Wow, EVERYTHING has the Real Black Panel" now. Nope, just Samsung playing marketing games to try increasing sales.

Wrong!
Check the Samsung 2012 Plasma Step Chart and read the fine print.
They ALL HAVE the Real Black Panel.

However the E6500 and E8000 use the new 2012 'Real Black Panel Pro' that is a step up
from the older Real Black Panel and it's not just a software upgrade but also
improvements that are built in to the glass itself.

http://ramsaysmarthomes.ca/info/Samsung%202012%20Panel%20Chart.pdf
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post #24 of 42 Old 07-17-2012, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

Wrong!
Check the Samsung 2012 Plasma Step Chart and read the fine print.
They ALL HAVE the Real Black Panel.
However the E6500 and E8000 use the new 2012 'Real Black Panel Pro' that is a step up
from the older Real Black Panel and it's not just a software upgrade but also
improvements that are built in to the glass itself.
http://ramsaysmarthomes.ca/info/Samsung%202012%20Panel%20Chart.pdf

In 2011, Real Black Panel meant the screen had AR coating on it as well. In 2012, Real Black Panel mean pretty much nothing, the glare coming off some of those screens is like a mirror.
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post #25 of 42 Old 07-17-2012, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ocellaris View Post

In 2011, Real Black Panel meant the screen had AR coating on it as well. In 2012, Real Black Panel mean pretty much nothing, the glare coming off some of those screens is like a mirror.

That's a lot of BS...........
What are you the miss information minister for Panasonic?
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post #26 of 42 Old 07-17-2012, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

That's a lot of BS...........
What are you the miss information minister for Panasonic?

Samsung. Samsung has the Real Black Panel.
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post #27 of 42 Old 07-17-2012, 03:12 PM
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What each manufacturer calls their panel is decided by their marketing group. In the end, Panny 2012 plasmas have better blacks than Samsung 2012 plasmas in every single review. And the VT50 won this year's VE shootout. Bottom line is that you can't really go wrong with either brand (each has its advantages and disadvantages, but black levels are definitely a Panny advantage).
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post #28 of 42 Old 07-18-2012, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

Samsung sells more PDP's than Panasonic

That's not true. Samsung does not sell more PDP than Panasonic so i don't know where you get that from. The only time in history that Samsung sold the more PDPs than Panasonic was in Q1 of 2011 when Samsung had their new 2011 PDPs available starting in February, whereas Panasonic didn't release their new models until mid-march with only two weeks left in Q1. And in this quarter there was a surplus of leftover 2010 Samsung models available for sale, while the supply of Panasonics had pretty much dried up several weeks before the new 2011 models were released so anyone wanting to buy a Plasma during most of Q1 2011 had to either buy a 2010 or 2011 Samsung, or wait for the new 2011 Panasonics to be released in the spring.

Quote:
yet I don't see owners complaing about IR. Buzzing yes but not IR. Besides none of the sets were 'broken in' so that would be the best way to test otherwise HOW they were 'broken in' would then be a grey area and problematic for the test.

Buzzing is much more irritating then IR.

I've been watching mostly News Programming and Speed Channel on my 50GT50 as well as having the settings menus up for long periods of time since i picked it up 2 weeks ago and i have ZERO IR and ZERO Burn-In from the menus and channel logos and scrolling ticker banners which are up on my screen almost constantly. I've seen some owners reporting IR so i've looked for it on my own display but it's just not there.

My viewing habits are much more indicitive of how the average TV watcher uses his TV than the unintended torture test CNet did on their examples and i did not let that article scare me away from buying a GT50. It would have been useful if CNet would have followed through with their testing or kept the damaged TV to see if the IR goes away etc so to me their test is inconclusive. My own real world IR testing is yielding much different results than CNet's test did.


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post #29 of 42 Old 07-18-2012, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace1965 View Post

Pixel Orbitor is nothing more than a marketing gimmick. Absolutely nothing!

Completely disagree and furthermore this type of post just shows you don't own a recent Panasonic TV. Firstly I bought a GT50 and I'm currently staying with family. They have it connected to the cable box which is not HD. I also connect it to an external aerial antenna to get HD channels. When the family watches TV through the cable box my TV was ending up with enormous IR from the 4:3 black bars. I discovered that the TV was set to THX mode which is pointless using a non HD cable box as my family couldn't care less about PQ. THX mode disables the pixel orbiter. I changed the picture mode to Custom and made sure the pixel orbiter was enabled and after 2 days of using the screen wipe mode and watching regular TV to get rid of the IR there has been only been a slight amount of IR using the cable box in 4:3 mode. I simply use the screen wipe mode for less than a minute and that small amount is gone. It does matter using the pixel orbiter and anyone saying that it doesn't or if they say the screen wipe mode doesn't work they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, period.

After seeing Cnet's test I will however acknowledge that Samsung's panels are definitely better than Panasonic's regarding IR. There should be no reason to age the panels to the make the test fair. If Samsung didn't require 1000 hours of aging and still had zero IR after 8 hours then that shows that it's better at rejecting IR. Still, for me, I prefer the Panny plasmas over the Samsung. That test was not enough to sway me away from my Panasonic.
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post #30 of 42 Old 07-18-2012, 09:25 PM
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Completely disagree and furthermore this type of post just shows you don't own a recent Panasonic TV.

When most people refer to the pixel orbiter being junk, they are talking about the fact that the orbiter doesn't move enough pixels to effectively shift logos. Moving the screen 4 pixels in each direction when a screen logo is lightning white and 64 pixels wide doesn't help much. It just blurs the edges of the IR wink.gif
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