Pansonic 60" ST50 came in today, Need calibration advice - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 25 Old 07-25-2012, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mac336's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I know nothing about calibration

Is this something I can do manually? I read that I need a disc

Is calibration just messing with the contrast, brightness, etc or is it some other more technical setting that I need to mess with?

any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm sure there are some threads on this already, but having trouble finding them
mac336 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 01:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rahzel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,714
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 147
The term 'calibration' is often used pretty vaguely. To do a full/proper calibration, you need a measuring device/meter (colorimeter or spectroradiometer), something to display the necessary test patterns (calibration disc, pattern generator) and calibration software (CalMAN, Chromapure or HCFR) which is used to give you the readings etc. so you know what adjustments are needed.

A calibration disc alone will help you set things like Brightness, Contrast, Sharpness and to some extent, Color/Tint/Hue. But to do grayscale, gamma and to fully calibrate color, you need a meter. Many sets lack certain controls, like a Color Management System (CMS), which is used to properly set Color (Color Luminance, Saturation and Hue). The ST50 doesn't have a CMS but the color is very good after you do a grayscale calibration. Not reference quality, but very close.

Any other questions would be best asked in the Display Calibration section.
rahzel is offline  
post #3 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 01:09 AM
 
jeffrey76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac336 View Post

I know nothing about calibration
Is this something I can do manually? I read that I need a disc
Is calibration just messing with the contrast, brightness, etc or is it some other more technical setting that I need to mess with?
any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm sure there are some threads on this already, but having trouble finding them

Yes get a disc. Spears and Munsil and Disney WOW are great ones. Do not call a pro calibrator and waste your money. A disc will get you the same results except $500 cheaper.

Enjoy your st50, its a great set.
jeffrey76 is offline  
post #4 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 01:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rahzel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,714
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrey76 View Post

Yes get a disc. Spears and Munsil and Disney WOW are great ones. Do not call a pro calibrator and waste your money. A disc will get you the same results except $500 cheaper.
Enjoy your st50, its a great set.
rolleyes.gif Not you again.

The ST50 benefits the most from a calibration between the ST/GT/VT. The ST50's best mode out of the box (Cinema) shifts towards green and and has a low gamma. It's not terrible but easily noticeable to anyone with good eyesight. If you're even somewhat serious about picture quality, don't count out a pro calibration because some ignorant person told you to.
rahzel is offline  
post #5 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 01:37 AM
 
jeffrey76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

rolleyes.gif Not you again.
The ST50 benefits the most from a calibration between the ST/GT/VT. The ST50's best mode out of the box (Cinema) shifts towards green and and has a low gamma. It's not terrible but easily noticeable to anyone with good eyesight. If you're even somewhat serious about picture quality, don't count out a pro calibration because some ignorant person told you to.

I am sorry but you are simply wrong. If that was true you wouldn't need equipment to see what is wrong with the image. Pure and simple.

OP, buy a disc and use that $500 for an audio set up instead.
jeffrey76 is offline  
post #6 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 01:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rahzel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,714
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 147
I didn't need equipment to see a green tint and a low gamma. In fact, I haven't even calibrated my ST50 yet.

Goes to show who is 'simply wrong' here.

Look, if you want to use your one bad experience as the basis for your argument that a pro calibration isn't worth it, then say it as if it was your opinion rather than fact, because the FACT of the matter is, certain people CAN see the difference whether you can or not. You didn't even specify what model you have and who calibrated your set when those are two crucial pieces of information to include, especially if you come here making the bold claims that you are.
rahzel is offline  
post #7 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 01:43 AM
 
jeffrey76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

I didn't need equipment to see a green tint and a low gamma. In fact, I haven't even calibrated my ST50 yet.
Goes to show who is 'simply wrong' here.

You were looking at out of the box settings. You didn't use a calibration disc. So yes, you are simply wrong.
jeffrey76 is offline  
post #8 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 02:19 AM
Senior Member
 
AdrianMills's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

I didn't need equipment to see a green tint and a low gamma. In fact, I haven't even calibrated my ST50 yet.
Goes to show who is 'simply wrong' here.

I think his point is that if you can see exactly what the inaccuracies are with your own eyes, you can probably get within a reasonable point of accuracy by using those same eyes and a calibration disc to tweak the colours and gamma. Perhaps the 80:20 rule applies here, and for a lot, maybe even most consumers, 80% of the way to perfect is more than enough.

I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing." ~ D.Adams
AdrianMills is offline  
post #9 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 04:14 AM
Senior Member
 
Leon!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 372
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianMills View Post

I think his point is that if you can see exactly what the inaccuracies are with your own eyes, you can probably get within a reasonable point of accuracy by using those same eyes and a calibration disc to tweak the colours and gamma. Perhaps the 80:20 rule applies here, and for a lot, maybe most consumers, 80% of the way to perfect is more than enough.

Pretty tight logic, but surely a pro calibration is still worth it since it's recommended by all the highly respected gurus here- most of whom are calibrators themselves (so they should know)!
Leon! is offline  
post #10 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 04:38 AM
Senior Member
 
AdrianMills's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon! View Post

Pretty tight logic, but surely a pro calibration is still worth it since it's recommended by all the highly respected gurus here- most of whom are calibrators themselves (so they should know)!

For some I'm sure it is worth it. For others, not so much.

I never had my Kuro calibrated and I think it looks just great the way it is. Maybe it would look better if it were calibrated properly but, TBH, I'm happy enough with my poor attempt at tweaking not to want to throw money at a professional calibrator to find out. I guess it's about where your threshold for "good enough" is.

People that aren't aware should be informed that not all professional calibrations will make a huge difference over tweaking the settings yourself. More often than not, it seems on various display forums that it's a given that professional calibrations are the way to go and it definitely will make a night and day difference which I don't think is always the case.

I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing." ~ D.Adams
AdrianMills is offline  
post #11 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 04:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
chunon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wilmington Ohio
Posts: 5,081
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Liked: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrey76 View Post

I am sorry but you are simply wrong. If that was true you wouldn't need equipment to see what is wrong with the image. Pure and simple.
OP, buy a disc and use that $500 for an audio set up instead.

No you are wrong completely totally. To the OP start of with a calibration disc, AVs709 is a good one and can be found here for free. If you are not satisfied after that there is always the diy or pro calibrator route. Despite what some mis-guided folks say here it can provide a pretty marked improvement in picture quality.

65VT60
55ST60
Sony BDV-F7 3dbluray/soundbar
Calman Enthusiast
Dish Network with Hopper/Super Joey
chunon is offline  
post #12 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 05:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mpalmieri1203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pleasant Valley, NY
Posts: 2,642
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrey76 View Post

I am sorry but you are simply wrong. If that was true you wouldn't need equipment to see what is wrong with the image. Pure and simple.
OP, buy a disc and use that $500 for an audio set up instead.

Have you had a professional calibration done or do you just speak from a position of assumption?

I can tell you if you have the money it is well worth it. Just my opinion though.

mpalmieri1203 is offline  
post #13 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 05:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
buzzard767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Naples, FL & Wausau, WI
Posts: 3,674
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 463
The entire 50 line (ST, GT, VT) begs calibration. For 2012 the color decoder was finally righted by Panasonic and on the ST and GT series color falls into line once Grayscale is calibrated.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1397245/official-panasonic-st50-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/300#post_21795029

CP Review Pan 55ST50 Custom.pdf 265k .pdf file
Attached Files
File Type: pdf CP Review Pan 55ST50 Custom.pdf (264.6 KB, 86 views)

Buzz
THX Certified Video Calibrator

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
buzzard767 is offline  
post #14 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 05:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
chunon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wilmington Ohio
Posts: 5,081
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Liked: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

The entire 50 line (ST, GT, VT) begs calibration. For 2012 the color decoder was finally righted by Panasonic and on the ST and GT series color falls into line once Grayscale is calibrated.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1397245/official-panasonic-st50-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/300#post_21795029
CP Review Pan 55ST50 Custom.pdf 265k .pdf file

Great post

65VT60
55ST60
Sony BDV-F7 3dbluray/soundbar
Calman Enthusiast
Dish Network with Hopper/Super Joey
chunon is offline  
post #15 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 09:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rahzel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,714
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrey76 View Post

You were looking at out of the box settings. You didn't use a calibration disc. So yes, you are simply wrong.
This again shows your lack of knowledge because it's dificult to corect the shift by eye and there's no gamma slider in Cinema mode. To have a more proper gamma, you need to calibrate Custom mode and Custom mode needs even more white balance tweaking, which again can't be done by eye and a calibration disc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianMills View Post

I think his point is that if you can see exactly what the inaccuracies are with your own eyes, you can probably get within a reasonable point of accuracy by using those same eyes and a calibration disc to tweak the colours and gamma. Perhaps the 80:20 rule applies here, and for a lot, maybe even most consumers, 80% of the way to perfect is more than enough.
My problem with his points are that he states them as if they were fact when they are not. A calibration certainly isn't worth it for everyone but to tell people that they can't see a difference is simply false. He believes that pro calibrations are a scam and make no difference when there's so many holes in that logic. It depends on the individual, the quality of the calibration and how bad the tv was to begin with. If you're happy with what you can acheive by eye, then by all means. But don't tell the world that a calibration is simply not worth it.
rahzel is offline  
post #16 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mac336's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

No you are wrong completely totally. To the OP start of with a calibration disc, AVs709 is a good one and can be found here for free. If you are not satisfied after that there is always the diy or pro calibrator route. Despite what some mis-guided folks say here it can provide a pretty marked improvement in picture quality.

where can i get that for free?


Couldn't I just take the settings that other people have on their calibrated p60st50 and apply it to my own?
mac336 is offline  
post #17 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 11:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rahzel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,714
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac336 View Post

where can i get that for free?
Couldn't I just take the settings that other people have on their calibrated p60st50 and apply it to my own?
http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration
rahzel is offline  
post #18 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 11:40 AM
Advanced Member
 
Dierkdr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 849
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac336 View Post

I know nothing about calibration
Is this something I can do manually? I read that I need a disc
Is calibration just messing with the contrast, brightness, etc or is it some other more technical setting that I need to mess with?
any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm sure there are some threads on this already, but having trouble finding them

Hoping that this doesn't simply become part of the Background Noise over whether or not a Professional Calibration is worth the cost.... eek.gif

1) Age your panel fairly aggressively - slides or not - at least until you approach the end of your Return Period. Helps uncover any Infant Mortality Issues.
Our 60ST50 seemed to "settle in" by (around) the 400 hour mark - certainly, that is the usage hours by which Quick Onset IR no longed seemed a Significant Issue.
Black levels also improved over the first couple hundred hours, as did screen uniformity (lost its initial yellowish blob and a vertical "shadow").

2) BY ALL MEANS GET THE AVS HD709 DISK! Not only is it free - will cost you a blank DVD to burn a copy - but it includes several short videos on HDTV "calibration" that are well worth watching.
One of the commercial disks may also prove useful - Disney's WOW seems to get the best User Reviews; while DVE has the best filters (per memory) but has a reputation as being difficult to use; Spears & Munsil (? Spelling) seems to tread the middle ground.
Some DVDs / Blu-ray disks also come with Calibration Aids. These are rather simplistic, but still better than nothing - see whether you have any THX movies (or Sony blu-rays?) in your collection.

3) You can play with the disks while accumulating a few hundred hours on your tv - then, if you are not satisfied with the PQ, you can explore the option of paying for a professional calibration - with at least some confidence that the underlying characteristics of your panel are likely to remain fairly stable....


There is always a question - or Discussion / Debate / Argument.... - between a Pleasing Picture and an Accurate Picture. In an ideal world, these would both be the same - but, just as no two panels are Exactly the same, so also are no two "Sets of Eyes" exactly the same. And while there is certainly a point in favor of 'Training" oneself to "appreciate" an accurate picture, in the end it is YOUR panel and YOUR eyes.... Still, if you understand the concepts behind calibration, and what a "properly calibrated" picture SHOULD look like, you can at least better decide for your self whether or not you are willing to "re-train" your vision, if necessary. wink.gif

Enjoy your panel!
Dierkdr is offline  
post #19 of 25 Old 07-26-2012, 12:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
chunon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wilmington Ohio
Posts: 5,081
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Liked: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac336 View Post

where can i get that for free?
Couldn't I just take the settings that other people have on their calibrated p60st50 and apply it to my own?

Panels vary even within the same model, you might find calibration settings that look pretty good but then again they may not. The big variance can be in greyscale and that is an very individual unique calibration effort that can only be done accurately with a meter and software. My advice is get the 709 disc learn it nail the basic settings and then decide if you want to get further into cal via either diy or hire a professional. I will say once you go the pro-cal route there is no turning back, you will need to see a "calibrated" reference picture to be satisfied. I tried the diy route but ultimately fell back on enlisting a pro to do the job. In my mind its a worthwhile investment.

65VT60
55ST60
Sony BDV-F7 3dbluray/soundbar
Calman Enthusiast
Dish Network with Hopper/Super Joey
chunon is offline  
post #20 of 25 Old 11-04-2012, 07:24 PM
Member
 
redlightracerLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I calibrated mine with the Disney WOW disc and it looks amazing but I have noticed whites still are not brilliant white but more of a dirty white. No matter what I do this seems to be the case, is this just how it is with plasma? I love the set BTW best picture I have ever had.
redlightracerLS is offline  
post #21 of 25 Old 11-04-2012, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mac336's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I ended up just using the CNET settings which they used in their review of the tv

I dont find my white "dirty" at all. you think your whites are dirty relative to another TV or just in general?

try the CNET settings, they work for me
mac336 is offline  
post #22 of 25 Old 11-04-2012, 07:34 PM
Member
 
redlightracerLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac336 View Post

I ended up just using the CNET settings which they used in their review of the tv
I dont find my white "dirty" at all. you think your whites are dirty relative to another TV or just in general?
try the CNET settings, they work for me

They say on the disk it should be bright white like a t-shirt or white piece of paper and it isn't it is more like a t-shirt that has been washed with a load of darks too many times, white but kind of grayish white.
redlightracerLS is offline  
post #23 of 25 Old 11-04-2012, 08:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
anikun07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Northwest Illinois USA
Posts: 1,185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 44
White is also very particular to what's surrounding it. On a full white screen, they whites do seem "off white" (to me, at least), but once that white is part of a bigger picture, even just the 100% white test pattern surrounded by black, it looks perfectly white. During video playback, like TV or movies, it looks purely white.
anikun07 is offline  
post #24 of 25 Old 11-04-2012, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mac336's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I was watching a football game the other day and the white jersey's were very bright and distinct. it looked really good. you should adjust your display settings
mac336 is offline  
post #25 of 25 Old 11-04-2012, 11:58 PM
Senior Member
 
BriscoCountyJr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 457
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by redlightracerLS View Post

I calibrated mine with the Disney WOW disc and it looks amazing but I have noticed whites still are not brilliant white but more of a dirty white. No matter what I do this seems to be the case, is this just how it is with plasma? I love the set BTW best picture I have ever had.
A screen that has mostly white will cause a plasma's ABL feature to limit the brightness, due to power supply limitation with lots of white on the screen.
For calibration usually they use a much smaller white window so full white will be displayed.
BriscoCountyJr is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off