Samsung 43" "720p" PN43E450. Disappointed - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I should have done more research, but as soon as I set this TV up I noticed it looked more pixelated than my lcd that is the same size. After further research I found that it only has a resolution of 1024x768, which IMO isn't even really HD. Unacceptable.

I'm definitely returning this and looking at purchasing the 50" Panasonic 1080p from best buy. Does anyone know if this actually has the full 1920x1080 resolution or am I going to get ripped off on pixels like I did with the Samsung?
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post #2 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 12:39 PM
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Unless you stand right in front of the screen 1080 on a 43" is not needed.
pixelated? nope don't see that on mine even with SD.
exchange it for the 51" E530 or E550 both are 1080.

This works great on my E450.

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post #3 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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1080 on 43 might not be needed, but 720 is definitely needed. The native res has like 20% less pixels than true 720p
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post #4 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redlinegts85 View Post

1080 on 43 might not be needed, but 720 is definitely needed. The native res has like 20% less pixels than true 720p

It has a resolution of 1024x768.
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post #5 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Which isn't true 720p res
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post #6 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Although resolution separates HDTV from standard-definition TV, it's not as important to overall picture quality as other factors. According to the Imaging Science Foundation, a group that consults for home-theater manufacturers and trains professional video calibrators, the most important aspect of picture quality is contrast ratio the second most important is color saturation, and the third is color accuracy. Resolution comes in fourth, despite being the most-cited HDTV specification.
The point is, once you get to high-definition, it's difficult to discern further improvements in the sharpness of the picture. All other things being equal--namely contrast and color--HDTV looks more or less spectacular on just about any high-definition television regardless of its size, native resolution, or the HDTV signal's resolution itself. The leap from normal TV to HDTV is so big that additional leaps in resolution--from high-definition to higher-definition, let's say--are tiny by comparison. - CNet


The E450 is a very good set, but like most PDP's, including those that are full rez, you need to calibrate them properly. I suggest a good disc like those offered by Disney Wow and Spears&Munsil. The only 720p plasmas that I have an issue with are those with 50''+ screens due to the sde which can even be distracting at viewing distances over 10 feet.


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post #7 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 02:32 PM
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If your talkIng about the u50 or u54 by Panasonic then yes it is full 1080p and most likely a better panel overall if last years d450 is anything to go by.
The only thing the e450 might do better than the u50 is bright room performance where the Samsungs real black filter will help minimize shadow detail being washed out, as well as likely having a brighter panel (just a guess based on the u50 being reviewed as relatively dim. If you haven't already played around with the sharpness control give that a shot but in the end it is a 1024x768 panel the 1366x768 panel I had looked much better than the 1024x768 panel I had before it for pixelation sharpness and 1080p would likely be near perfect.
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post #8 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redlinegts85 View Post

Which isn't true 720p res

what is the resolution for 'true' 720p?

A big plus for the E450 is it has the SAME 'real black' panel as the E530 and E550.
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post #9 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

what is the resolution for 'true' 720p?
A big plus for the E450 is it has the SAME 'real black' panel as the E530 and E550.

Well technically no plasma is "true" 720p but the prefferred resolution is 1366X768 for what they call a 720p set. I know the blacks are really good had last years d450 for a while last year.

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post #10 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

what is the resolution for 'true' 720p?

Any broadcast or TV panel that produces a resolution of 1280X720 pixels is considered 'true' 720p. Most panels no longer use this configuration.



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post #11 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 03:38 PM
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You can't only go by the numbers.
The picture and black level quality is excellent for a sub $500 TV.
And let me repeat, it has the SAME 'real black' panel as the E530 and E550.
Read the rave reviews on Wallmart.com including the ones for the Panasonic 42" 720p.
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post #12 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I understand the black levels are amazing, but my cell phone has higher resolution than my TV.
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post #13 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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256 pixels? You mean over 100,000?
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post #14 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 04:39 PM
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As far as HD videogame content goes on a 42"...When you have a 1280x720p image being displayed
on a 1024x768 42" Plasma, there 'will' be a noticable difference in comparison to a 42"
1080p set that can properly display 1280x720p correctly. You're losing out on 256 pixels.
For movies i couldn't care less, and i can't notice the difference between
1024x768 or a 1080p 42" being fed 1080p both through bluray sitting at around 9 feet away.

Again, even if there was, i couldn't care less....Give me good blacks, color and motion handeling
and I'm a happy dude. Besides, i typically watch DVD's as i don't care for that
super rich and stunning 1080p crystal clear HD image, especially for horror....
It's great for anything fantasy based, pixar/stop motion animated(Coraline for ex) and whatever,
but i mostly watch horror movies, and i prefer the grittier, less clear look on DVD hehe.

The Excorsist was 'miles' more scarier back in the day on one of those wood panel tube TV's
on a fuzzy and gritty VHS tape. Thee' ultimate way to watch it haha.
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post #15 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redlinegts85 View Post

I understand the black levels are amazing, but my cell phone has higher resolution than my TV.

of course it's a OLED screen. blows the door off any LCD/LED plasma.
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post #16 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 05:22 PM
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I'd never buy any HDTV without 1080p. Screen size doesn't matter in this case as 43" is plenty big unless you sit very far from it. I'd go for 1080p LEDs/LCDs for sizes under 50" and 1080p plasmas for 50" and up.
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post #17 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Saw the 50" 1080p Panasonic in store and it looks much clearer than my Samsung.
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post #18 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Now the question is....Panasonic 50" plasma or Samsung 51"?
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post #19 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redlinegts85 View Post

I should have done more research, but as soon as I set this TV up I noticed it looked more pixelated than my lcd that is the same size. After further research I found that it only has a resolution of 1024x768, which IMO isn't even really HD. Unacceptable.
I'm definitely returning this and looking at purchasing the 50" Panasonic 1080p from best buy. Does anyone know if this actually has the full 1920x1080 resolution or am I going to get ripped off on pixels like I did with the Samsung?

Yes, you should have done more research - that, of course, is no one's fault but your own. wink.gif

Nevertheless, 1024x768 has been a standard resolution for 42"-class plasma panels for some years, and such a set is capable of providing a very nice picture.
Read the Quote that Mailiang was kind enough to post for you.

When comparing the E450 to your LCD, how far away are you sitting? If you are trying to use the panel as a large computer monitor, then, NO, a 768 panel will not suffice. But for watching HD TV, blu-rays, or HD DVDs from a reasonable distance - say 8 feet or so - the picture should be fine (although, admittedly, some people are more sensitive to SDE than others, and thus might require a farther distance.)

When moving up to a 50" panel, you really want at least 1366x768 (Panasonic reduced even their 50" "720p" panels to 1024x768 a few years ago - a shame!) - although in the current market there is precious little cost savings to be had between a 50" 720p and a 50" 1080p set, thus making the lower resolution harder to recommend (esp as they tend to be "cheapened" in areas beyond simple resolution). Ideally, you would like a 10ft viewing distance for a 1366x768 50" panel.

FWIW, our current sets (all Panasonic): 42" 1024x768; 50" 1366x768 (&, at approx. 9 ft viewing distance, usually the nicest panel for "HD TV" shows!); and 60" Pan ST50 - nicest panel for blu-rays & hd dvds, at 9ft, but - as hinted above - for reasons BEYOND mere resolution. In fact, the vast majority of people who have seen our 50" panel have ASSUMED that it WAS a "1080p" model.

Note that IF you are sitting Very Close to your set, moving up to a 50" model - even a 1080p set - may also result in disappointment: the larger picture area will do a Wonderful job of revealing all of the FLAWS in whatever source you feed it. This is why we often prefer our 50" set over the 60" for "HD TV" - which is seldom True HD in quality - to say nothing of many SD DVDs. (I sometimes move to a 12 ft seating distance if watching "TV" on the 60" - that is far enough away to "hide" most minor source flaws.)

Better luck with your next purchase! smile.gif
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post #20 of 33 Old 07-26-2012, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redlinegts85 View Post

I should have done more research, but as soon as I set this TV up I noticed it looked more pixelated than my lcd that is the same size.

Pixelation is usually caused by a low quality source, so maybe what you're seeing is the SDE (Screen Door Effect) from the crappy 768p resolution that the E450 has. If you move farther and farther from the screen (like moving back 8-10 feet) does the image eventually smooth out when you get far enough away? If so, what is the distance where the image becomes smooth? For me that distance is about 11 feet.

Quote:
After further research I found that it only has a resolution of 1024x768, which IMO isn't even really HD.

Well technically anything with a vertical resolution greater than 720p is considered to be HD, although 768p is not a very good HD resolution. Nobody has made a true 720p Plasma TV since 2006.


Quote:
Unacceptable. I'm definitely returning this and looking at purchasing the 50" Panasonic 1080p from best buy. Does anyone know if this actually has the full 1920x1080 resolution or am I going to get ripped off on pixels like I did with the Samsung?

Yes, any 1080p Panasonic or Samsung or LG Plasma is full HD (1920 x 1080). You didn't get ripped off with your Samsung, it's just a very low end model and the picture quality isn't as good as their 1080p models (E530 and higher) which actually look pretty good. 768p Plasmas are absolutely unacceptable to me - it's 1080p or nuthin on any screen over 26 inches. Some of the 32" 1080p LCD TVs look fantastic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

A big plus for the E450 is it has the SAME 'real black' panel as the E530 and E550.

No it doesn't - the E530 and E550 models have 1080p panels, where the E450 has a 768p panel. Completely different panel modules.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

Unless you stand right in front of the screen 1080 on a 43" is not needed.

That's not always true unless you have poor vision. My 42" 1080p Plasma looks WAY smoother than my 42" 768p Plasma does when i'm 10 feet away from both of them. I can't stand watching the 768p set in the den (8 foot distance) due to the SDE which is why i'm going to give it to an older relative and move one of my 1080p sets into that room. I have to be over 12 feet away before my 42" 768p set starts to look acceptable and the SDE completely disappears. For others that distance is 7 or 8 feet. But to someone upgrading from and old interlaced tube TV, a 42" 768p Plasma looks relatively great, until he starts to become aware of the benefits of a 1080p screen then 768p ain't so hot anymore.

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post #21 of 33 Old 07-27-2012, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

My 42" 1080p Plasma looks WAY smoother than my 42" 768p Plasma does when i'm 10 feet away from both of them. I can't stand watching the 768p set in the den (8 foot distance) due to the SDE which is why i'm going to give it to an older relative and move one of my 1080p sets into that room. I have to be over 12 feet away before my 42" 768p set starts to look acceptable and the SDE completely disappears. For others that distance is 7 or 8 feet. But to someone upgrading from and old interlaced tube TV, a 42" 768p Plasma looks relatively great, until he starts to become aware of the benefits of a 1080p screen then 768p ain't so hot anymore.


I have a 32 inch 1080p LCD and 720p 46 inch PDP. I wear special prescription glasses for TV viewing. I don't really notice the SDE on my plasma screen at 8 feet. To be honest with you I never even thought about it until I started reading threads on this forum about how distracting it can be. However, in most box stores with florescent lighting, it seems much more noticeable, even at 10 or 12 feet to me. I have spend a lot of time calibrating my TV, and the SDE has never been a problem. I guess it's different strokes for different folks. Enjoy your new GT-50 Randy.


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post #22 of 33 Old 07-28-2012, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Got a 50" panasonic 1080p plasma today and WOW what a difference. I don't care what anyone says....I can easily tell the difference between 720p and 1080p even from far away. EASILY.
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post #23 of 33 Old 07-28-2012, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redlinegts85 View Post

Got a 50" panasonic 1080p plasma today and WOW what a difference. I don't care what anyone says....I can easily tell the difference between 720p and 1080p even from far away. EASILY.

yeah, this is why I don't prefer plasmas under 50" (most have 1024 by 768 res)

however, my panasonic th-42pz80u from 2008 is 1080p... so they did make 1080p 42" plasmas at one point
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post #24 of 33 Old 07-28-2012, 07:02 PM
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S30 was 1080p at 42" as are some of Panasonics overpriced professional models (1000 for a 42" biggrin.gif )
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post #25 of 33 Old 07-28-2012, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redlinegts85 View Post

Got a 50" panasonic 1080p plasma today and WOW what a difference. I don't care what anyone says....I can easily tell the difference between 720p and 1080p even from far away. EASILY.


Sure, so do I, especially these newer models when on display in those big box stores. Running an uncalibrated set in the demo mode under florescent lighting accentuates all those lovely artifacts and anomalies we rather not see, like the sde! My point has been that there's more then the pixel structure that makes a 1080p set look better then a 720p. Better panels offer better gamma, higher contrast, deeper blacks and better color accuracy. They keep adding more features and call these new cheaper sets better TV's. Something has to give and the result is reduced picture quality.

Here are the specs from the highly rated 2008 42'' HWM Gold Award winning Pioneer Kuru:


Model: Pioneer PDP-428XG KURO Multi System TV
PAL/NTSC/SECAM/NTSC 3.58/NTSC4.43/PAL 60 compatibility
Tunes TV channels for PAL BG, PAL I, PAL M, PAL N, SECAM DK, NTSC M
Digital HDMI Connection for HDTV upto 1080p signals
42" Ultra Bright Plasma Display (16,000:1 Contrast Ratio)
*1024 x 768 Resolution
Completely Flat Screen
Super Thin Construction
Real Black Drive System
Progressive Scan
Anti- Reflection Coated Screen
HDMI Input
1080p, 1080i, 720p, 480p, 480i, Digital Signal Compatibility
HDTV monitor: Can support both HDTV and EDTV/SDTV
16:9 Wide Screen Cinema Aspect Ratio
Ultra-Thin Design - Only 3.9" Deep
Progressive Component Video Input
Multi-Scanning PC Monitor Support up to 1024 x 768



OMG! It's only 1024X768p! biggrin.gif

Enjoy your new Panny!


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post #26 of 33 Old 07-28-2012, 09:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah...that was from 2008.
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post #27 of 33 Old 07-29-2012, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redlinegts85 View Post

I should have done more research, but as soon as I set this TV up I noticed it looked more pixelated than my lcd that is the same size. After further research I found that it only has a resolution of 1024x768, which IMO isn't even really HD. Unacceptable.
I'm definitely returning this and looking at purchasing the 50" Panasonic 1080p from best buy. Does anyone know if this actually has the full 1920x1080 resolution or am I going to get ripped off on pixels like I did with the Samsung?

THis set looks great to me. Have it in the main bedroom.

I think 1080p only needed when you exceed 46", 50" for sure.

A steal at $399.
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post #28 of 33 Old 07-29-2012, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

THis set looks great to me. Have it in the main bedroom.
I think 1080p only needed when you exceed 46", 50" for sure.
A steal at $399.


The OP isn't that familiar with plasmas which show more of the artifacts that plaque many compressed HDTV broadcasts. My LCD was much easier to calibrate then my PDP, but despite the fact that it has a higher rez, I still prefer the picture of my 720p Plasma. I've seen the E450 which received a 'best buy" from CR, and I personally think it offers very good picture quality, especially for the money..



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post #29 of 33 Old 07-29-2012, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dierkdr View Post

Yes, you should have done more research - that, of course, is no one's fault but your own. wink.gif
Nevertheless, 1024x768 has been a standard resolution for 42"-class plasma panels for some years, and such a set is capable of providing a very nice picture.
Read the Quote that Mailiang was kind enough to post for you.
When comparing the E450 to your LCD, how far away are you sitting? If you are trying to use the panel as a large computer monitor, then, NO, a 768 panel will not suffice. But for watching HD TV, blu-rays, or HD DVDs from a reasonable distance - say 8 feet or so - the picture should be fine (although, admittedly, some people are more sensitive to SDE than others, and thus might require a farther distance.)
When moving up to a 50" panel, you really want at least 1366x768 (Panasonic reduced even their 50" "720p" panels to 1024x768 a few years ago - a shame!) - although in the current market there is precious little cost savings to be had between a 50" 720p and a 50" 1080p set, thus making the lower resolution harder to recommend (esp as they tend to be "cheapened" in areas beyond simple resolution). Ideally, you would like a 10ft viewing distance for a 1366x768 50" panel.
FWIW, our current sets (all Panasonic): 42" 1024x768; 50" 1366x768 (&, at approx. 9 ft viewing distance, usually the nicest panel for "HD TV" shows!); and 60" Pan ST50 - nicest panel for blu-rays & hd dvds, at 9ft, but - as hinted above - for reasons BEYOND mere resolution. In fact, the vast majority of people who have seen our 50" panel have ASSUMED that it WAS a "1080p" model.
Note that IF you are sitting Very Close to your set, moving up to a 50" model - even a 1080p set - may also result in disappointment: the larger picture area will do a Wonderful job of revealing all of the FLAWS in whatever source you feed it. This is why we often prefer our 50" set over the 60" for "HD TV" - which is seldom True HD in quality - to say nothing of many SD DVDs. (I sometimes move to a 12 ft seating distance if watching "TV" on the 60" - that is far enough away to "hide" most minor source flaws.)
Better luck with your next purchase! smile.gif

Why the requirement for a 10 foot distance between a 50" 1080p set and the person? (I ask because I sit about 10 feet away from a 720p, 92 inch projector screen, and it's got a fantastic picture in my opinion.)

For me, given that my use is as a main TV for children and adults, 720p is perfectly fine at 43". Most of our watching is HD or SD television or DVDs. The HD looks great and the SD/DVDs get upscaled anyway. Perhaps some clarity might be lost for 1080p, but I sit so far away (13 feet or so), it's not much of a deal (and I don't have a 1080p to compare).

Bob
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post #30 of 33 Old 07-31-2012, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

The OP isn't that familiar with plasmas which show more of the artifacts that plaque many compressed HDTV broadcasts. My LCD was much easier to calibrate then my PDP, but despite the fact that it has a higher rez, I still prefer the picture of my 720p Plasma. I've seen the E450 which received a 'best buy" from CR, and I personally think it offers very good picture quality, especially for the money..
Ian


It's not that I'm not familiar with plasmas, it's just that I can see how terrible the resolution was on that TV. Even on 720p broadcasts on this new 50", it still looks WAY better up closer than the samsung 43" did.
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