What can we expect from 2013 Panasonic Plasmas? - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 1445 Old 01-20-2013, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by skro View Post

Yeah, but aren't these reviewers just using the blacks as a reference? That's just one quality of a tv and from my understanding the newer panasonics are better in almost any other aspect (correct me if I'm wrong). This seems to me like comparing all new sports cars, with awesome new dash electronics, safety features, handling improvements, mpg improvements, etc. and saying "yeah, but it can't do 0-60 in a straight line as fast as my 1960's muscle car (ie, just picking 1 aspect for comparison).

I don't own, and have never seen a kuro, and I get that it is a reference point to blacks, but aren't these newer panasonics better tvs all around?

As I understand it, the best Kuros still have more accurate color and gamma - aside from deeper blacks.

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post #542 of 1445 Old 01-20-2013, 05:35 PM
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Ahh. Ok. I only seemed to notice comparisons with black levels, but if it excels in a number of areas still, then that is a different situation IMO.
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post #543 of 1445 Old 01-21-2013, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

As I understand it, the best Kuros still have more accurate color and gamma - aside from deeper blacks.


All this talk about Kuro right now does nothing more then kill time until we see, and have profesionally reviewed, the ZT60 and the Samsung F8500. I respect what the Kuro has done for the world of high quality TV viewing (although I have never owned one or ever will...they were way overpriced when new and stupidly priced right now for resale, and Id never settle for ANY TV that was under 65" anyway). I currently own a 65VT30 and am ready to replace it with something better. I am very happy that we have two really great options this year with the ZT60 and the F8500. Cant wait for The Shoot Out to help me decide what I will be buying this year.
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post #544 of 1445 Old 01-21-2013, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rrollens View Post

All this talk about Kuro right now does nothing more then kill time until we see, and have profesionally reviewed, the ZT60 and the Samsung F8500. I respect what the Kuro has done for the world of high quality TV viewing (although I have never owned one or ever will...they were way overpriced when new and stupidly priced right now for resale, and Id never settle for ANY TV that was under 65" anyway). I currently own a 65VT30 and am ready to replace it with something better. I am very happy that we have two really great options this year with the ZT60 and the F8500. Cant wait for The Shoot Out to help me decide what I will be buying this year.

I am in a similar boat with my 65ST30. I do like the set and it puts out a very nice image (pro cal'd), but I want the next step. I'm hoping the ZT60 and F8500 will be sizable upgrades. The 2012s were moderate upgrades, but I am looking for something even more dramatic.

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post #545 of 1445 Old 01-21-2013, 08:17 PM
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I have an S2, so I've got the upgrade itch as well....but I thought the 2012s were supposed to have been a big step up? Weren't they a lot brighter than previous models (helping those with bright rooms)? Maybe that big step happened from the 2 to 30 series.

Anyhow, I know this doesn't really mean anything, but I remember Panasonic making a lot more noise about they new plasmas and new tech at CES last year.
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post #546 of 1445 Old 01-21-2013, 08:22 PM
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I own an 8th.generation elite..and a vt3065....the elite is my secondary TV....nuff said? the z series would have to knock my socks off for me to upgrade...i am very content with the PQ of the VT30..
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post #547 of 1445 Old 01-21-2013, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrollens View Post

All this talk about Kuro right now does nothing more then kill time until we see, and have profesionally reviewed, the ZT60 and the Samsung F8500. I respect what the Kuro has done for the world of high quality TV viewing (although I have never owned one or ever will...they were way overpriced when new and stupidly priced right now for resale, and Id never settle for ANY TV that was under 65" anyway). I currently own a 65VT30 and am ready to replace it with something better. I am very happy that we have two really great options this year with the ZT60 and the F8500. Cant wait for The Shoot Out to help me decide what I will be buying this year.
the kuro overpriced when new? i would say the opposite, that was the problem, they were underpriced.

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post #548 of 1445 Old 01-21-2013, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by craigyboy View Post

the kuro overpriced when new? i would say the opposite, that was the problem, they were underpriced.

Really? They were way higher, as compared to their competitors, than the expected ZT prices. Besides, I don't think anyone had that opinion at the time.

Though I am an employee of Magnolia Home Theater, the views and opinions I express on this forum are those of my own and not my employer.
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post #549 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 12:10 AM
 
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They certainly would have sold even less (until the last minute) if they were priced higher. Perhaps he is basing it on a personal price performance ratio. wink.gif
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post #550 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 07:50 AM
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I paid what? $3500 for a elite 111 50" in 2008 or was it more and this is after getting BB to come down in price.
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post #551 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 09:39 AM
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The way i see it is the 9G Kuro's, or 9.5 Elite's and KRP's weren't hugely overpriced - in fact they were hugely underpriced.

Hence why they are (still) the consumer plasma to beat, four, nearly five years later. And not just depth of black.

Different class.
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post #552 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

The way i see it is the 9G Kuro's, or 9.5 Elite's and KRP's weren't hugely overpriced - in fact they were hugely underpriced.

Hence why they are (still) the consumer plasma to beat, four, nearly five years later. And not just depth of black.

Different class.

They were the most expensive TV's on the market in their size at the time. Underpriced is not how I would choose to describe them.

Though I am an employee of Magnolia Home Theater, the views and opinions I express on this forum are those of my own and not my employer.
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post #553 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

The way i see it is the 9G Kuro's, or 9.5 Elite's and KRP's weren't hugely overpriced - in fact they were hugely underpriced.

Hence why they are (still) the consumer plasma to beat, four, nearly five years later. And not just depth of black.

Different class.

Well, not exactly. Today's environmental standards make it much tougher (and more expensive) to develop and design a plasma than it did several years ago. It's not as if the Pioneer technology has been lost, ya know. LOL. Panny does have a "professional" series (with some whopping price tags). The picture quality must be crazy good and I presume that the technology has moved well beyond that of the best Kuro.

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post #554 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

They were the most expensive TV's on the market in their size at the time. Underpriced is not how I would choose to describe them.

Except for when the 500M was as low as $1600. For about a year there were good deals to be had on all Pioneer 9G models, even the signature elites.

This may mean nothing, but I watched part of Avatar on a 2012 Panny VT in a dark showroom. My wife and I both agreed that our 500M was better by a decent margin, especially in dark scenes. Whatever special sauce is in the 9G Kuro, the VT didn't have it. Still an excellent display though, and I hope the 2013 models step up to the plate.
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post #555 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 12:04 PM
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THIS REVIEW is from late 2011. Does the VX300 not count or something? Hoping we can stop pretending that plasma progress simply stopped when the Kuro died.

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post #556 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

They were the most expensive TV's on the market in their size at the time. Underpriced is not how I would choose to describe them.

Actually, the Runcos and Fujitsus were significantly more expensive than a KURO at the time. The KRPs in particular were very fairly priced. I almost pulled the trigger on a 60" KRP-600 for $3499 towards the end of their general availability. Considering how much better they were than everything else on the market (including those truly overpriced Runcos and last-gen Fujitsus), I don't think we could really call them overpriced. Yes, the Elites were priced pretty high (particularly at MSRP, which is what Magnolia tried to charge for them at the time), but again, they offered superior quality and brand cache. What was the last MSRP on a 60" Elite 151? I'm pretty darn sure it was lower than the $5400 of a current 60" Sharp/Elite LCD. Plus you could easily get at least 20% off of that MSRP at any sane authorized dealer.
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post #557 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by trem0lo View Post

Except for when the 500M was as low as $1600. For about a year there were good deals to be had on all Pioneer 9G models, even the signature elites.

This may mean nothing, but I watched part of Avatar on a 2012 Panny VT in a dark showroom. My wife and I both agreed that our 500M was better by a decent margin, especially in dark scenes. Whatever special sauce is in the 9G Kuro, the VT didn't have it. Still an excellent display though, and I hope the 2013 models step up to the plate.

Was your Elite calibrated? Most showroom sets are not. Also, wasn't really referring to the clearance prices. You could say ANY clearance TV is under-priced. That's what clearance pricing is.

Though I am an employee of Magnolia Home Theater, the views and opinions I express on this forum are those of my own and not my employer.
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post #558 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Influence View Post

Actually, the Runcos and Fujitsus were significantly more expensive than a KURO at the time. The KRPs in particular were very fairly priced. I almost pulled the trigger on a 60" KRP-600 for $3499 towards the end of their general availability. Considering how much better they were than everything else on the market (including those truly overpriced Runcos and last-gen Fujitsus), I don't think we could really call them overpriced. Yes, the Elites were priced pretty high (particularly at MSRP, which is what Magnolia tried to charge for them at the time), but again, they offered superior quality and brand cache. What was the last MSRP on a 60" Elite 151? I'm pretty darn sure it was lower than the $5400 of a current 60" Sharp/Elite LCD. Plus you could easily get at least 20% off of that MSRP at any sane authorized dealer.

I should have clarified about Runco and Fujitsu. They were not really "mainstream". There is ALWAYS something more expensive.

Though I am an employee of Magnolia Home Theater, the views and opinions I express on this forum are those of my own and not my employer.
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post #559 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Influence View Post

Actually, the Runcos and Fujitsus were significantly more expensive than a KURO at the time. The KRPs in particular were very fairly priced. I almost pulled the trigger on a 60" KRP-600 for $3499 towards the end of their general availability. Considering how much better they were than everything else on the market (including those truly overpriced Runcos and last-gen Fujitsus), I don't think we could really call them overpriced. Yes, the Elites were priced pretty high (particularly at MSRP, which is what Magnolia tried to charge for them at the time), but again, they offered superior quality and brand cache. What was the last MSRP on a 60" Elite 151? I'm pretty darn sure it was lower than the $5400 of a current 60" Sharp/Elite LCD. Plus you could easily get at least 20% off of that MSRP at any sane authorized dealer.

Pro-151 = $6500
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Plasma/PRO-151FD
Pro- 111= $4500
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Plasma/PRO-111FD
Panasonic 65VT50 = $2283.00 pre tax.

The Kuro prices began to plummet because no one was willing to pay retail. They didn't fall from price matching...they fell because they weren't selling at those prices....and Pioneer announced early on that they were quitting the display business (which always kills prices).
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post #560 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 01:03 PM
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I'm actually at a point watching the 500m where I'm just waiting for something to get blacker.

I thought about seeing if D-Nice could do work on my 500m, since he had said he was able to make some sets get an even lower mml.

2014 panasonics will be rolling out some new tech...here's hoping...

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post #561 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 01:30 PM
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Oh why can’t someone make a TV with blacks as deep and colors as accurate as the Sony WEGA KD-34XBR970 CRT??

I can’t believe that after all these years this tech is still supreme. My wife and I were watching a movie on the Pioneer Kuro and we both agreed the picture isn’t as nice as the Sony. The only problems with the Sony is that they don’t make it anymore, you couldn’t get it bigger than 34” and if they did make a 65” it would probably weigh about 550 lbs.
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post #562 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 02:27 PM
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I think you mean the Sony XBR 960. To my knowledge, the 970 didn't use the Super fine pitch tube and was mostly just a rebadged Sony HS-420. My HS-420 is a nice bedroom set but I prefer my 2009 plasma overall.
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post #563 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 02:43 PM
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Oh why can’t someone make a TV with blacks as deep and colors as accurate as the Sony WEGA KD-34XBR960 CRT??

(Tounge in cheek)

My point being that the Kuro lament is meaningless. I can't buy a 65" Kuro. I won't pay inflated prices for a used 4 year old 60" TV. And by the way, since my TV is in the living room...the Elite I sold looked as passe' as my Wega looked as plasmas came out. I didn't keep the Wega because I wanted a bigger screen and I didn't keep the Elite for the same reason.

Kudos to those who have a 151/141. Wish I bought one but they did cost about $6500 when i was shopping.
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post #564 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 02:45 PM
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Can someone direct me to the Panasonic thread please ???

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post #565 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 02:54 PM
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Can someone direct me to the Panasonic thread please ???
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post #566 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 03:13 PM
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As usual the kuro bs creeps into every f'n thread. Im so sick of it.
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post #567 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 03:15 PM
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and here's where I brace for the comment " but it is relevant because they haven't matched it"...and we start over the cyclical discussion!
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post #568 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trem0lo View Post

Except for when the 500M was as low as $1600. For about a year there were good deals to be had on all Pioneer 9G models, even the signature elites.

This may mean nothing, but I watched part of Avatar on a 2012 Panny VT in a dark showroom. My wife and I both agreed that our 500M was better by a decent margin, especially in dark scenes. Whatever special sauce is in the 9G Kuro, the VT didn't have it. Still an excellent display though, and I hope the 2013 models step up to the plate.

I can tell you for a fact that the 500m is not that much better. I actually had the same reaction as you when I first saw the VT50. I have both a 500m (calibrated) and a 65VT50 (calibrated) and have done comparisons side-by-side. When they are not side-by-side, the only time I can detect a true difference in black level is during letterbox movies (the black bars during dark scenes don't blend into the bezel as well on the vt50 as they do on the 500m), but it is a slight difference. If I am trying, I can tell the difference during some dark scenes, but it is rare that I ever notice if I am not trying.

For me to upgrade my VT50 to the ZT60, the ZT will have to beat out the 500m in black level and the difference would have to be noticeable. But we will see, there are other things the VT50 needs to do better that could make me consider upgrading. For example, the VT50 doesn't do that great of a job handling some poor sources and it would be nice if 96hz worked without flicker.

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post #569 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 03:36 PM
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As usual the kuro bs creeps into every f'n thread. Im so sick of it.

That sort of thing plus the policy of using endless threads to serve as subforums makes me long for my old Usenet client with its ability to "ignore subthread". Here, and in all web forums I use, if you want to follow a thread, the only thing I'm aware of to help is "ignore user", but it is coarse and unforgiving, and it's ultimately inadequate, as all forum software I've encountered allows ignored users to bump threads, making "new posts" next to useless. I guess the best solution is to unsubscribe from the thread once the SNR drops to an intolerably low level and rely on search and less frequent checking to keep up, though it really isn't "keeping up", is it?
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post #570 of 1445 Old 01-22-2013, 04:15 PM
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Here's the real take it to the bank and cash it truth!

Until Panasonic can make a set that when viewed side by side with the greatest Kuro ever made--until it can kick Kuro's a$$ then every product and all that Panasonic is and stands for means absolutely NOTHING!!!

It would be LUDICROUS for a Corvette from 4 or five years ago to have better performance than the current Corvette.

The same applies to Panasonic in its relation to Pioneer's Kuro.

They BOUGHT the patents to dethrone Pioneer's Kuro.

The fact that after these 4 or 5 years that they're still unable to do so--for WHATEVER reasons--technical or financial--means that Panasonic is just a bunch of LOSERS!

If people here are SICK of hearing about the Kuro then maybe they should contact Panasonic and tell them that if they can't beat Kuro that they just flat out suck and if they suck long enough eventually they'll go out of business.

If that doesn't work tell them that they are a disgrace to the nation of Japan and the Japanese people!

Tell them you are ashamed to have them sold as a product in the USA!

Tell them that the future Chinese OLED producers are already laughing at them!

If the ZT60 really is that great then they should not have any problem with side by side face-offs in every AV review mag currently being published or on the net!

We don't need to usual AV Industry plant sales force suspects' comments we always hear around here after CES.

We need Panasonic to put up or shut up!

If Panasonic would have been making plasmas that were better than Kuros for the last few years maybe we wouldn't be facing the total world wide domination LCD apocalyptic horror holocaust!

Buy plasma--even plasma that sucks compared to Kuros is 1 million percent better than the HORROR of LCD!!!
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