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post #31 of 57 Old 08-13-2012, 08:13 AM
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What is your point ?

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post #32 of 57 Old 08-13-2012, 08:16 AM
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the key words being very mild
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post #33 of 57 Old 08-13-2012, 09:07 AM
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Photos taken with auto dimming cameras will just provide fuel for the fire. The pictures of the game on your plasma are all dim except for one sonyfan, I'm guessing that's the camera at work as they are all very large patches of white.

I read a review awhile back where they tested the 65" version of the vt50 and noticed very little visible dimming on an all white field (think it was televisioninfo, I know blasphemous biggrin.gif but I have confidence they can at least make a simple observation) in a mode other than standard (possibly cinema). If a 65" screen hardly dims at all it throws this whole pointless argument out the window.

It's obvious that an led LCD will show a brighter white in a bright room but that doesnt make it better it just means the person watching it doesnt care enough about a quality image to dim the lights.

It's the same argument I had with chronoptomist in a seperate thread discussing black levels, luminance of a display is entirely relative to ambient luminance, if something appears black on a bright day then it is black, if something appears white in a dark room then it is white.

Shades and luminance are entirely different as far as I'm aware, just because something that is white isn't lit up like a Christmas tree doesn't mean it isn't white.
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post #34 of 57 Old 08-13-2012, 09:29 AM
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Kind of difficult to compare the euro panel to the american panel. What is your interest in discrediting the panasonic? I could whip out a ton of reviews saying that is not the case with the TV.

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post #35 of 57 Old 08-13-2012, 09:47 AM
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From Cnet in their review of the Samsung UN65ES8000,

"Color accuracy: Certainly the Samsung's strength, color looked extremely accurate and lifelike overall. Unlike most LED TVs I've tested the Samsung avoids the trap of appearing slightly blue in comparison to plasma TVs."

It doesn't look like having a blue picture is desirable.

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post #36 of 57 Old 08-13-2012, 10:17 AM
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I always find the hockey comparison odd. I go to a decent number of professional (AHL) hockey games and some college games. The arenas really are not that bright.

One of my friends was the official photographer for the team, and they had to setup a remote strobe system above the whole rink just to get good action photos during games. If you believe some people in the LED crowd, the whole ice surface would be a brilliant shining "pure whit"e and they never should have needed to setup thousands of dollars in strobes just for a few pics.
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post #37 of 57 Old 08-13-2012, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

They ain't bright ...

And neither are you biggrin.gif

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post #38 of 57 Old 08-13-2012, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

Hockey on an LED is just flat out 1000x's better ...it just is ...nobody can argue that ... Plasma white isn't true white -that's a fallacy from THX clowns who know they can't produce an accurate white reading ....
And THX by the way ? it's something made up - the all time sales hook "THX certified" gimmie a break.
LED Hockey

Hockey on a Plasma

EWWWWW....

Of course, a better comparison would be more effective if you didn't post images that are found on the Web. Your LED image comes from a NY Post article.
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post #39 of 57 Old 08-13-2012, 01:44 PM
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And neither are you biggrin.gif

Good one, Randy!
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post #40 of 57 Old 02-11-2013, 08:01 AM
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I'll just my 2 cents in what's NOT talked about frequently with plamsa... VT50 & some E8000 explicitly. But this information applies to all plasmas.

1) Plasma color == fake. if you really break down the pulse width modulation and do the math per one cycle the TV is really only capable of maybe 3-4k true colors. The "24,000" gradation is a bunch of marketing BS.
To get into this a bit further. The "snow/static" you see two parts. 1. it's dithering... 2. it's the TV changing the 4k colors around trying to make up the color you are suppose to see. The reason you see it like static is because the TV is changing what colors are optimized in the 4k available every other frame and also re-calculating the dithering with the new colors. Thus different information is shown. Color is essentially interleaved between multiple screen refreshes trying to trick your eyes into seeing (more color) something that is not there. Almost like a DLP does, but not quite.

2) VT50/whatever has reference color == misdirection. The calibrator/shootouts will show you these charts. And the latest one's being the fancy color tracking charts. What 's left off and NOT told to you is the TV is only accurate like that to a range of APL (average picture level). APL is basically saying how bright or how dim the image is you are looking at. When calibrating calibrators find a specific size pattern which calibrates the TV to the best color/gamma over a range of APL. But the TV is NOT reference for all APL. Period. If you were to do a calibration with 1% slides (this means 1% of the TV screen has information, or better said in the center of the screen you have a square that is 19x10 pixels), then 5%, 10% 15%, 20% 25% patterns and lets stop and 50%. You will see the color does not track linear. And the TV does not have reference color. It may have "reference" color for a range of say 8%-20% APL, but it won't be reference on any image outside of that.

3) The ABL (it's in ALL plasma TV's. Is one of biggest contributors to the color issues) also causes the gamma to be inaccurate in the same fashion. Again the same applies here. Once your outside of that zone where the TV isn't stressed the gamma gets very inaccurate.

4) Motion... the VT50 actually distorts motion on darker scenes on slow moving images. The new drive systems scans slower and actually drops information. You can see green scan lines on darker objects moving and it actually drops resolution while this is happening. This is because those areas of the screen (darker) are actually refreshing differently.

5) Purists TV? Really? lets think about this. A plasma is really anything but pure. Dithering == re-processing of the color/grayscale == loss of both color and grayscale resolution. Period. And then add on the color and gamma distortion == not pure. The entire argument of "well you can't see dithering from your seating position" is hogwash. Yes, you can. If you don't have 20/20 vision that's not my problem and not what were discussing. At the recommended viewing distance if you had a 65" high quality 24bit LCD next to a "true color" 65" plasma you would easily be able to see the difference. The plasma would look soft. Especially on complicated pictures.

6) Brightness (max luminance)... Everyone is out there touting numbers like 47fL for daytime viewing. But not one persons stops and asks what does this number represent? Well, here it is... It represents when the calibrator puts up a tiny white square on the screen with an all black background. It DOES NOT represent that the TV can hit 47fl with most content during the day. Another big mistake people also do is take one reading from one calibrator/TV and compare it to a different one without asking the big question... Did he use the same size square on the screen for the measurement? If you don't know what size pattern was used on a plasma measurement, the measurements are about worthless. You can thank the ABL and the dynamic drive systems for this.

7) brightness again (max luminance)... Lets say were using 10% sized patterns of 100% white. Would a Samsung E8000 calibrated to 35fL using this 10% white window perform identical to a VT50 calibrated to 35fL using the same 10% white window? The answer is NO. The the ABL's are programmed/engineered differently, and they both have different dynamic drive systems. The E8000 actually appears brighter in some scenes than the VT50 in this case.


Some of you might think I'm way off base here. But some of the data for what I'm talking about already exists and has been proven by some really sharp guys on here already. The only thing is they didn't spoon feed it out. You have to geek out and look at their numbers/charts in detail. As well I have collected my own. These past 2 years I have owned both E7000&E8000 and VT30&VT50 and done some extensive analysis. I'm not saying plasma sucks. But the misdirection that plasma is the best or "reference" needs to stop.

IMO the reality is anyone who claims "reference" for a plasma either has an agenda (sales) OR they don't know enough about the technology to really understand what is going on. The ABL/dynamic drive basically stops the plasma in it's tracks from being able to truly be "reference".

It's like if you asked 100 people "is NJ basically straight east of northern Kansas?" I'm guessing most would say no, why? Because they have always looked at flat maps. If you take spherical data (earth) and make it flat it will distort. Thus NJ appears further north than it really is. Granted only about 65% of NJ is on the same latitude as KS, it is. However NJ is only 160 some odd miles long!

Not understanding the plasma ABL/dynamic drive system is the equivalent to the people who are reading the distorted flat map and still reporting that NJ is way north of KS. Sadly for some this might even be AFTER you have showed them a map with the latitude lines drawn on it.


There is a reason why studios use LCDs for critical color adjustments and not plasmas.




Also...

For these shootouts... people should ask them to do post calibration reports/testing like this.

#1) color. Do full 3d color tracking using patterns from 1% to 100% APL in steps of 5%. Show the chart in 3D. Which is essentially stacked slices of color tracking. This can be automated, IMO calman should do this already. No clue, don't use the software.
To draw this out clearer...
1) Do normal color tracking as shown from last shootout. 25%,50%,75%100% for each color (RGBYMK).
2) Do this test multiple times. Every time change APL. Go from patterns 1% apl to 100%apl in steps of 5.
3) stack this information up, put each slice on top of one another from 1% to 100%. Create a 3d chart.
4) make another graph and show luminance accuracy over same ranges

#2) repeat this but do it for gamma

#3) motion resolution, do low APL motion resolution tests. These would be patterns moving around the screen that are DARK but VERY detailed. Use different levels of dark patterns. Does it drop details?!? Also have pattens which include bright detail on the same plane.

#4) brightness (peak luminance), if you calibrated the TVs to 35 foot lamberts using whatever method you choose. Do a sweep test post calibration. Run a peak luminance test, but use sweeping sized windows. Sweep and measure from 1% to ABL peak. What do you see? graph it.

#5) high compression tests. Playback something that is compressed, and dark. Take the movie Aliens for example and re-code it to look like crap (not totally). See what TV can make it looks the best. Reality is most people watch compressed video now days.

Anyway, I've been hesitant to post this. I almost hit cancel... this post doesn't really do much.

In the end if you love plasma's keep buying them. Always get what you like, life is too short.

But just know if you made your decision based on "what's best" by some shootout or calibration reports/review online. Make sure you really understand the information that's been presented to you.
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post #41 of 57 Old 02-11-2013, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

I'll just my 2 cents in what's NOT talked about frequently with plamsa... VT50 & some E8000 explicitly. But this information applies to all plasmas.

1) Plasma color == fake. if you really break down the pulse width modulation and do the math per one cycle the TV is really only capable of maybe 3-4k true colors. The "24,000" gradation is a bunch of marketing BS.
To get into this a bit further. The "snow/static" you see two parts. 1. it's dithering... 2. it's the TV changing the 4k colors around trying to make up the color you are suppose to see. The reason you see it like static is because the TV is changing what colors are optimized in the 4k available every other frame and also re-calculating the dithering with the new colors. Thus different information is shown. Color is essentially interleaved between multiple screen refreshes trying to trick your eyes into seeing (more color) something that is not there. Almost like a DLP does, but not quite.

2) VT50/whatever has reference color == misdirection. The calibrator/shootouts will show you these charts. And the latest one's being the fancy color tracking charts. What 's left off and NOT told to you is the TV is only accurate like that to a range of APL (average picture level). APL is basically saying how bright or how dim the image is you are looking at. When calibrating calibrators find a specific size pattern which calibrates the TV to the best color/gamma over a range of APL. But the TV is NOT reference for all APL. Period. If you were to do a calibration with 1% slides (this means 1% of the TV screen has information, or better said in the center of the screen you have a square that is 19x10 pixels), then 5%, 10% 15%, 20% 25% patterns and lets stop and 50%. You will see the color does not track linear. And the TV does not have reference color. It may have "reference" color for a range of say 8%-20% APL, but it won't be reference on any image outside of that.

3) The ABL (it's in ALL plasma TV's. Is one of biggest contributors to the color issues) also causes the gamma to be inaccurate in the same fashion. Again the same applies here. Once your outside of that zone where the TV isn't stressed the gamma gets very inaccurate.

4) Motion... the VT50 actually distorts motion on darker scenes on slow moving images. The new drive systems scans slower and actually drops information. You can see green scan lines on darker objects moving and it actually drops resolution while this is happening. This is because those areas of the screen (darker) are actually refreshing differently.

5) Purists TV? Really? lets think about this. A plasma is really anything but pure. Dithering == re-processing of the color/grayscale == loss of both color and grayscale resolution. Period. And then add on the color and gamma distortion == not pure. The entire argument of "well you can't see dithering from your seating position" is hogwash. Yes, you can. If you don't have 20/20 vision that's not my problem and not what were discussing. At the recommended viewing distance if you had a 65" high quality 24bit LCD next to a "true color" 65" plasma you would easily be able to see the difference. The plasma would look soft. Especially on complicated pictures.

6) Brightness (max luminance)... Everyone is out there touting numbers like 47fL for daytime viewing. But not one persons stops and asks what does this number represent? Well, here it is... It represents when the calibrator puts up a tiny white square on the screen with an all black background. It DOES NOT represent that the TV can hit 47fl with most content during the day. Another big mistake people also do is take one reading from one calibrator/TV and compare it to a different one without asking the big question... Did he use the same size square on the screen for the measurement? If you don't know what size pattern was used on a plasma measurement, the measurements are about worthless. You can thank the ABL and the dynamic drive systems for this.

7) brightness again (max luminance)... Lets say were using 10% sized patterns of 100% white. Would a Samsung E8000 calibrated to 35fL using this 10% white window perform identical to a VT50 calibrated to 35fL using the same 10% white window? The answer is NO. The the ABL's are programmed/engineered differently, and they both have different dynamic drive systems. The E8000 actually appears brighter in some scenes than the VT50 in this case.


Some of you might think I'm way off base here. But some of the data for what I'm talking about already exists and has been proven by some really sharp guys on here already. The only thing is they didn't spoon feed it out. You have to geek out and look at their numbers/charts in detail. As well I have collected my own. These past 2 years I have owned both E7000&E8000 and VT30&VT50 and done some extensive analysis. I'm not saying plasma sucks. But the misdirection that plasma is the best or "reference" needs to stop.

IMO the reality is anyone who claims "reference" for a plasma either has an agenda (sales) OR they don't know enough about the technology to really understand what is going on. The ABL/dynamic drive basically stops the plasma in it's tracks from being able to truly be "reference".

It's like if you asked 100 people "is NJ basically straight east of northern Kansas?" I'm guessing most would say no, why? Because they have always looked at flat maps. If you take spherical data (earth) and make it flat it will distort. Thus NJ appears further north than it really is. Granted only about 65% of NJ is on the same latitude as KS, it is. However NJ is only 160 some odd miles long!

Not understanding the plasma ABL/dynamic drive system is the equivalent to the people who are reading the distorted flat map and still reporting that NJ is way north of KS. Sadly for some this might even be AFTER you have showed them a map with the latitude lines drawn on it.


There is a reason why studios use LCDs for critical color adjustments and not plasmas.




Also...

For these shootouts... people should ask them to do post calibration reports/testing like this.

#1) color. Do full 3d color tracking using patterns from 1% to 100% APL in steps of 5%. Show the chart in 3D. Which is essentially stacked slices of color tracking. This can be automated, IMO calman should do this already. No clue, don't use the software.
To draw this out clearer...
1) Do normal color tracking as shown from last shootout. 25%,50%,75%100% for each color (RGBYMK).
2) Do this test multiple times. Every time change APL. Go from patterns 1% apl to 100%apl in steps of 5.
3) stack this information up, put each slice on top of one another from 1% to 100%. Create a 3d chart.
4) make another graph and show luminance accuracy over same ranges

#2) repeat this but do it for gamma

#3) motion resolution, do low APL motion resolution tests. These would be patterns moving around the screen that are DARK but VERY detailed. Use different levels of dark patterns. Does it drop details?!? Also have pattens which include bright detail on the same plane.

#4) brightness (peak luminance), if you calibrated the TVs to 35 foot lamberts using whatever method you choose. Do a sweep test post calibration. Run a peak luminance test, but use sweeping sized windows. Sweep and measure from 1% to ABL peak. What do you see? graph it.

#5) high compression tests. Playback something that is compressed, and dark. Take the movie Aliens for example and re-code it to look like crap (not totally). See what TV can make it looks the best. Reality is most people watch compressed video now days.

Anyway, I've been hesitant to post this. I almost hit cancel... this post doesn't really do much.

In the end if you love plasma's keep buying them. Always get what you like, life is too short.

But just know if you made your decision based on "what's best" by some shootout or calibration reports/review online. Make sure you really understand the information that's been presented to you.

Don't forget the "ranting" font

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post #42 of 57 Old 02-11-2013, 08:36 AM
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Don't forget the "ranting" font

hah.


Ya, it is a bit of a rant but not really. Mostly informative.

There's a lot of information in there that most probably don't know. And there's also some info some folks won't want to see.

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post #43 of 57 Old 02-11-2013, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

hah.


Ya, it is a bit of a rant. But there's a lot of information in there that most probably don't know.

You have your own agenda btw You're basically implying any pro calibrator that touts a plasma as reference is being dishonest imo that is over the top

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post #44 of 57 Old 02-11-2013, 08:41 AM
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You have your own agenda btw You're basically implying any pro calibrator that touts a plasma as reference is being dishonest imo that is over the top

I don't have a specific agenda. Other than some factual info I wish I had known 2 years ago.

I suppose that is one way to interpret what I said. However.


What I meant by my words is ...

It's misdirection or possibly them not understanding the TV tech completely. Because it's really only "reference" for a range of APL.

I would only speculate anyone who says it's reference and really knows that it's not reference for the entire range the TV is capable of is being somewhat dishonest. And in no other fashion. I don't believe most professional/ISF guys know this actually with plasma. Certainly some of them on here do, I've read it in their posts (some of which are also not ISF to my knowledge).

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post #45 of 57 Old 02-11-2013, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

I don't have a specific agenda. Other than some factual info I wish I had known 2 years ago.

I suppose that is one way to interpret what I said. However.


What I meant by my words is ...

It's misdirection or possibly them not understanding the TV tech completely. Because it's really only "reference" for a range of APL.

I would only speculate anyone who says it's reference and really knows that it's not reference for the entire range the TV is capable of is being somewhat dishonest. And in no other fashion. I don't believe most professional ISF guys know this actually with plasma. Certainly some of them on here do, I've read it in their posts (some of which are also not ISF to my knowledge).

And your professional qualitications are ?

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post #46 of 57 Old 02-11-2013, 09:09 AM
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And your professional qualitications are ?

Curious, why does this matter?

Professionally, I'm a staff engineer and work in R&D.

In reality none of this should matter. The best calibrators/techs I have met are self taught non ISF guys. One of them for example would be Craig Miller (since retired) aka Mr. Mitsubishi (of RPTV). I'm sure there are plenty of excellent ISF guys, haven't crossed paths with any of them yet.


I'm not sure what's gained trying to discredit what I've said using this type of attack. If you don't like it move on and ignore it/me, if everyone does it'll be a leaf in the wind...

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He's right in that I've seen a couple of very knowledgeable folk, drop hints that mostly agree with what he says regarding plasma accuracy. Saying anybody has some sort of agenda is pushing it though.

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post #48 of 57 Old 02-11-2013, 03:21 PM
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He's right in that I've seen a couple of very knowledgeable folk, drop hints that mostly agree with what he says regarding plasma accuracy. Saying anybody has some sort of agenda is pushing it though.

I don't understand why someone would resurrect a post from Aug 2012 just to say they don't like plasma, buy a LCD and move on.

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post #49 of 57 Old 02-11-2013, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post

He's right in that I've seen a couple of very knowledgeable folk, drop hints that mostly agree with what he says regarding plasma accuracy. Saying anybody has some sort of agenda is pushing it though.
Not saying either of you are wrong, but his rant with nothing to back it up is unlikely to be given much thought.
Pointing out others agenda after a post like that will raise a few eyebrows as well.
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post #50 of 57 Old 02-12-2013, 04:37 AM
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Not saying either of you are wrong, but his rant with nothing to back it up is unlikely to be given much thought.
Pointing out others agenda after a post like that will raise a few eyebrows as well.

Thanks. Ya, this isn't about being right or wrong to me. It's just about facts and some folks not understanding and others misrepresenting some data.

Use gamma for example. An example of data is APL patterns should measure the same as non APL small windows of any size. David M. had Dwayne do this test with the vt50 at the shootout. Measurements were different.

Gamma should really measure the same regardless. This is why there are debates as to which patterns are the best to use. APL, what size. They all measure different. If the TV was truly linear and reference they would all basically measure the same. For anyone reading this who writes dsp algorithms the ABL is basically a compression algorithm along with a peak limiter for the luminance channel. There are methods for finding the best size pattern to get the best overall calibration, but it will only apply to a range of APL.

Then Zoyd has a chart somewhere showing tests with different patterns on his testing of d8000.

The data is there... Someone either hasn't looked for it or they don't want to see it. Every one of my technical statements minus the one about the green lines and low APL motion resolution loss is there. Although xrox basically kind of spells it out explaining the slow scan rate in the darker areas of the image in one of his posts about the panasonic patent.

I like my plasma, but I don't like all of the misleading statements about it. Only reason mine is for sale is because I'm done having the blinds shut all the time. And i want to watch the history channel (and others) in marathons without worrying about the logo. I'm not going to invest $2000 in motorized blinds. My other plasma in my office isn't going anywhere.

This thread below basically hits the nail on the head.

http://www.lightillusion.com/forums/index.php?action=vthread&forum=8&topic=42

or

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1446386/abl-effects-measured-for-comparison

-SiGGy
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post #51 of 57 Old 02-12-2013, 05:31 AM
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So what TV are you planning on buying to replace the plasma?
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post #52 of 57 Old 02-12-2013, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

Curious, why does this matter?

Professionally, I'm a staff engineer and work in R&D.

I'm also an engineer working in semiconductor R&D. Your post is completely unintelligible for a lay person - that in my experience is the sign of someone who doesn't know the subject matter well enough to explain it to lay people. Like someone trying to sound really technical, rather than trying to teach anyone something. Maybe your post is meant to be read only by professional calibrators, if so, fine.
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post #53 of 57 Old 02-12-2013, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VarmintCong View Post

I'm also an engineer working in semiconductor R&D. Your post is completely unintelligible for a lay person - that in my experience is the sign of someone who doesn't know the subject matter well enough to explain it to lay people. Like someone trying to sound really technical, rather than trying to teach anyone something. Maybe your post is meant to be read only by professional calibrators, if so, fine.

No, but this is another deflector response trying to dis credit a valid post based on a moot point. My post wasn't intended to be a technical teaching document. It's to shed some light on a topic. The topic of this thread is "what we know about plasmas". These are well known issues of the technology... and I think I made it somewhat clear the ABL is responsible for most of the issues.

Curious, when did I say I was in semiconductor R&D?

What part specifically besides some of the obvious grammar/spelling errors is unintelligible?

If it matters I typed it on a ipad quickly and didn't proof it. I was just shooting from the hip.

As I said all of the data I have mentioned has already been drawn out and discussed in other threads. I even posted a link to one of them. I'm just trying to provoke some thought.

No. I could certainly write an "lay" article on the ABL from my experiences, but this has already been done before by people in the industry. Why should I redo work done by others? If someone is inclined/passionate enough they can go read about it. Explaining PWM and dithering is extremely complicated verbally to a reader who has no experience with it, it's best done with some illustration. Dithering wise/ABL/PWM there's no way I can comment on anything but the what ends up on the screen, not the specifics of the algorithm(s). And really it's the end result that were discussing not the algorithm that got us there. Like I said there are a lot of articles on these subjects already (most with illustration) by professionals with a lot more knowledge than myself (refer to the link I posted as an example of one of them). Xrox has some excellent posts, however very technical in nature. Some of which are not for the lay person, it doesn't make what he has said any less valid or invalid.

yes, a significant part of my post is intended for calibrators/advanced users. Mostly the last section about presenting 3d color/gamma charts that show performance over a range of APL. Even here I can argue with myself there are other ways to obtain this data. But it was just an idea...

-SiGGy
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post #54 of 57 Old 02-12-2013, 10:52 AM
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Don't you just love these kind of threads!







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post #55 of 57 Old 02-12-2013, 09:34 PM
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You can argue accuracy all you want. I have owned DLP, LCD and now Plasma. My biggest concern was did I like the picture. It wasn't whether or not it was the truest to the original source material. It just came down to the best looking set. You can throw specs out there that most people like me will not understand. But it still comes down to what was the best looking picture. For me it was plasma. NOTHING else mattered
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post #56 of 57 Old 02-12-2013, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remodeler View Post

You can argue accuracy all you want. I have owned DLP, LCD and now Plasma. My biggest concern was did I like the picture. It wasn't whether or not it was the truest to the original source material. It just came down to the best looking set.

Amen to that.

I couldn't care less about "reference" picture. I want a TV in my budget, with a large screen, a clear picture and that fits my usages (i.e. no worries of IR from hours of ESPN or gaming marathons).

Accuracy to me is the grass is green, the sky is blue, and skin tones looks real. Beyond that I don't care and don't get hung up on black levels, motion blur and various other things that videophiles rant about that I mostly don't even understand or care to understand. I like movies, sports, TV and video games. Those are my hobbies. Not the the gear I view and listen to them on, or tuning said gear.

Where I differ is the second part of the above statement--I'm willing to give up some PQ to avoid IR and buzzing. I'll admit that overall I liked the PQ better on plasma than LCD/LED. But not enough to change my usage habits to avoid stubborn IR or to learn to live with buzzing in bright scenes that drove me nuts the two times I bought (and returned) plasmas. So I'm done with plasmas and will stick with LCD/LED until some new tech comes out that matches or surpasses plasma PQ while having no real IR risk and no proclivity to buzz. Ideally it will match the performance of plasmas in dark scenes and LEDs in bright scenes.
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post #57 of 57 Old 02-12-2013, 11:37 PM
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Plasmas got there problems but in a dim room the few lcds I seen had more issues than the few plasmas I seen. Hockey is Dim and not that good on sam e450 plasma and the gamma shifting can be there if looking for it,but hockey on some lcds has bad motion blur.
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