PN51D7000 is suddenly darker, what can I do? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 08-14-2012, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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We got a Samsung PN51D7000 just before Christmas and it's been working great, but about two and a half weeks ago all of a sudden it's about two steps darker.

What can I do?
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post #2 of 19 Old 08-15-2012, 07:57 AM
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You'll need to be more specific, like for starters, what is your source? How do you define "2 steps"?

Could be a setting was inadvertantly changed either on your TV or on the source. Confirm your TV settings are correct by comparing against the standard calibration settings (ignore the color space, white balance, and 10pt):

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333561/samsung-d7000-d8000-settings-calibration-thread

Also, check the "HDMI Black Level" setting. If it is not grayed out, try switching it to the other setting (it can be low or normal, only one setting is correct and it should be obvious - picture will look washed out or blacks will be crushed if incorrectly set). Finally, check your source output settings. Try cycling through the available output formats (RGB, YCbCr, etc.). If all ealse fails, can you just increase your brightness to compensate?
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post #3 of 19 Old 08-15-2012, 08:53 AM
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You have be even more specific than that to start, when you say darker do you mean detail looks like it is getting crushed in the shadows or do you mean it isn't as bright overall?
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post #4 of 19 Old 08-15-2012, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm sorry, that is pretty subjective.

I put in calibration settings from something that I found somewhere and now that I'm looking for it I can't find it again.

What I mean is that, for instance, you can see it on CNN pretty obviously because they have the image lit brightly and evenly, when there is someone wearing a dark suit, until a couple of weeks ago we could see the color of the suit and detail of it, now it is uniformly dark with just the vaguest color. Likewise with hair on the person when it is a uniformly dark color we could formerly see the color and detail in it, now it's all just dark with no detail but a few light reflections.

And all colors generally seem darker, though perhaps with an increased sense of lushness that is actually overdoing it.

What concerns me is that no one touched anything it, it did this itself.
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post #5 of 19 Old 08-15-2012, 11:25 AM
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Ok, how about you post a complete list of your settings. If something is wrong with them, we can tell you right away.

There may not be much we can do for you here since it seems like too vague a problem. While its certainly possible that something is wrong with the TV, I wouldn't expect a warranty claim would get you anywhere either since it sounds like the TV is still working just fine.

However, if this really bothers you then why not try to do a basic calibration on the TV yourself? This is a great plasma that deserves (requires!) a little effort on the owner's part (never assume copied settings are fine). It's very simple and takes 5 minutes. I HIGHLY recommend you use the *basic* D7000 settings posted in the calibration thread as a starting point (forget about copying color and white balance calibration settings). You will need a simple test disc and a bluray player. You can buy the Disney WOW disc or similar, but I suggest AVS HD 709 because it is free: http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration

All you have to do to get the optimal picture out of your TV is the following:

1. Set cell to 20 (this is a bogus control as lower settings will reduce performance - this was confirmed by a Samsung employee).
2. Set brightness and contrast to a comfortable overall picture brightness for your eyes with typical room lighting (alternatively, start with recommended settings for a D7000, then adjust using only the contrast control to your preference).
3. Use a brightness test pattern (APL clipping pattern if you use AVS HD 709) to adjust brightness following the included directions (this will make sure you do not loose details and color on dark objects).

That should resolve your problem. You can go a little further if you like:

4. Display a color and tint calibration pattern (flashing color bars on AVS HD).
5. Go to the TV's advanced menu, and use the "RGB only" function to select blue mode.
6. Set color and tint according to the directions. (only small changes are typically required)
7. Turn RGB only mode off.
8. Adjust sharpness using a sharpness pattern. (usually something in the range of 10-20 is good)
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post #6 of 19 Old 08-15-2012, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ackbarthegreat View Post

We got a Samsung PN51D7000 just before Christmas and it's been working great, but about two and a half weeks ago all of a sudden it's about two steps darker.
What can I do?

well "two steps darker" sounds like your cell light is way down to 6 in standard mode or movie mode.
press 'TOOLS' on the remote then make sure its on 'movie' mode, press left or right arrow to make the change
the default setting for Cell Light is 20 in movie mode. if its less than 20 press right arrow to make the change in settings.
or your gamma could be at -3. press right arrow to make the change to 0 in settings.
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post #7 of 19 Old 08-15-2012, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

1. Set cell to 20 (this is a bogus control as lower settings will reduce performance - this was confirmed by a Samsung employee).

He also said the same about Sharpness and that it should be turned off and left on 0.
being skeptical
I played around with it long enough to surmise it acted more like a contrast control if anything. not good. He was right.
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post #8 of 19 Old 08-16-2012, 09:16 AM
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Well, I don't percieve any artifacts or other unwanted effects from low sharpness settings at a distance of 10 feet (and I find them preferrable when watching mixed content that includes SD). Higher settings will introduce ringing that is typical of most sharpness controls.
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post #9 of 19 Old 08-16-2012, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

Well, I don't percieve any artifacts or other unwanted effects from low sharpness settings at a distance of 10 feet (and I find them preferrable when watching mixed content that includes SD). Higher settings will introduce ringing that is typical of most sharpness controls.

yes ringing that's the word.
what I did was get real close to the screen and kept turning it down and looking at edges of things
I could see the ringing even at 5. it also adds to DSE and any video noise.
turning it off was a complete opposite from what I'm used to
so it did not happen overnight I just kept lowering till 0 looked fine.
I'm happy to report that shadow detail is finally where it should be.
I'm past 800 hours now so shadow detail took a very long time to mature.
There was very little below the 300 hour mark.
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post #10 of 19 Old 08-17-2012, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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These are my settings.

I copied these from something I found somewhere on the internet and changed only a couple details, like color level and fleshtone,

Picture Mode Movie
Cell light 16
Contrast 95
Brightness 66
Sharpness 2
Color 49
Tinit 50/50

Advanced settings
Black tone off
Dynamic contrast off
Gamma 0
Expert pattern off
RGB only mode off
Color space custom
Red
Red 46
Green 67
Blue 53
Green
Red 100
Green 54
Blue 30
Blue
Red 0
Green 42
Blue 60
Yellow
Red 42
Green 50
Blue 0
White balance
R - Offset 28
G - Offset 21
B - Offset 19
R - Gain 21
G - Gain 30
B - Gain 30
10p White balance on
Interval 1
Red -4
Green -4
Blue -3
Interval 2
Red -1
Green -1
Blue -2
Interval 3
Red 1
Green 1
Blue 1
Interval 4
Red 2
Green 2
Blue 2
Interval 5
Red 4
Green 4
Blue 3
Interval 6
Red 2
Green 2
Blue 2
Interval 7
Red 1
Green 1
Blue 1
Interval 8
Red 1
Green 2
Blue 0
Interval 9
Red 0
Green 0
Blue 0
Interval 10
Red 0
Green 0
Blue 0

Fleshtone -1
Edge enhancement off
xvYCC off

Picture options
Color tone Warm2
Digital noise filter auto
MPEG noise filter auto
Film mode off


I may be just imagining it but after I looked at all these and clicked into them without changing anything afterward it seemed the picture was notably improved, with better detail generally, though it could just be the placebo effect.
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post #11 of 19 Old 08-17-2012, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ackbarthegreat View Post

and changed only a couple details, like color level and fleshtone,
Picture Mode Movie
Cell light 16
Contrast 95
Brightness 66
Sharpness 2
Color 49
Tinit 50/50
Advanced settings
Black tone off
Dynamic contrast off
Gamma 0
Expert pattern off
RGB only mode off

White balance
R - Offset 28
G - Offset 21
B - Offset 19
R - Gain 21
G - Gain 30
B - Gain 30

Your Cell light must be at 20 always.
Sharpness at 0 always. (These are the 2 most important things to do on these sets.
This was confirmed by a tech who works for Samsung and I 100% agree.

I got better blacks with Black Tone - Darkest
use Brightness and Contrast to adjust for the increase via cell 20.
your Brightness at 66 is too high (with Cell light at 20) turn it down to the 50s.
White balance G - Gain 30
B - Gain 30
30 seems a bit high but could be ok for your set but keep it in mind.
your R, G, B Offsets are very low, could be ok for your set but keep it in mind.
you could just 'reset' White balance and see if you like the default with all at 25
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post #12 of 19 Old 08-17-2012, 03:27 PM
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Sonyfan,

I have been following your recent posts concerning settings for the E series Samsung plasmas. Could you please post your calibration results. In particular, I am interested in your gamma curve with Black Tone set at Darkest and the resulting grayscale curve with your WB settings at the default value of 25.

Oh, yes. What model plasma do you have? What meter are you using for calibration?

Thanks,
Larry
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post #13 of 19 Old 08-17-2012, 04:14 PM
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Hi Larry!

E450 43".
All settings are from the user menu and my mega sharp eye balls when it comes to color.

I only use Movie Mode.
Don't know if it's even possible to get
accurate colors in Dynamic or Standard.
If anyone can I'd sure like to see their settings.

Mode - Movie
Cell Light 20
Brightness 50 daytime / 40 for evening and 35 to 30 for a dark room
Contrast 100 daytime / 97 for evening and 95 to 90 for a dark room
Sharpness 0
Color 52
R/G Tint 50/50
Color Space - Native
Gamma -1 for night (0 for daytime
Dynamic Contrast - off
Black Tone - Darkest
Flesh Tone - 0
Color Tone - Warm1
Size - Screen Fit
Digital Noise Filter - Off

White Balance Calibration

RO - 21
GO - 25
BO - 22
RG - 20
GG - 25
BG - 23
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post #14 of 19 Old 08-17-2012, 04:22 PM
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post #15 of 19 Old 08-17-2012, 04:33 PM
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I don't own a Samsung plasma, but from what I know, black tone should be turned off as it simply crushes black detail and will probably throw off the gamma curve. It shouldn't be needed (along with all of the other enhancements) if everything else is set right.
Usually Color space, if not using Custom, should be set to Auto rather than Native. Native usually oversaturates everything.
Also, color tone is essentially a color temperature preset, so depending on what you have it set to (warm1, warm2) it has a huge impact on what your white balance offsets/gains/tweaks will be. Plus changing brightness, contrast and gamma by significant amounts usually affects RGB balance and may require some re-tweaking.
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post #16 of 19 Old 08-17-2012, 04:41 PM
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Since we are now discussing calibration of the D7000. let's move this discussion to the proper thread. Please, only those with the D model Samsung plasma come with me over there. See ya.smile.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333561/samsung-d7000-d8000-settings-calibration-thread

Larry
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post #17 of 19 Old 08-17-2012, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Sonyfan,
Thank you.
Now, please stop giving out erroneous advice about the D7000 model.

I have had a number of new buyers use my settings and they were happy with them.
Well I guess we will have agree to disagree here.
Cell Light at anything less than 20 is erroneous advice.
Sharpness at anything more than 0 is erroneous advice.
Both are useless controls said by a Samsung tech who basically
said the Cell Light is a carryover from the LCD/LED sets that Samsung left on the plasma menu.
He said the same about the Sharpness that is should be turned off = 0.
Sharpness turned on results in artifacts.
I can confirm this and it adds to DSE, ringing is the correct word here?
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post #18 of 19 Old 08-17-2012, 05:08 PM
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Sorry, but I'm going to have to side with Larry on this one. He is a fairly experienced DIY calibrator and has the equipment and knowledge to back it up.
I usually set sharpness to 0 as well on Samsung displays, however setting it below 20 usually doesn't add much/ if any noticeable ringing or edge-enhancement, and certainly not DSE.
Nothing really wrong with setting Cell light below 20, as long as you can reach your desired brightness level.

Things like setting black tone to darkest or saying the offsets/gains seem off when you have a different model, you don't have a meter, and are using a different color tone setting is more erroneous than anything. Who knows, maybe they could be off, but to be frank, I don't think you're in a position to say that they are. It's good that you're just trying to help, but directing him to the appropriate thread where people are discussing real calibration on the same model is the better thing to do.
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post #19 of 19 Old 08-23-2012, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ackbarthegreat View Post

...
I may be just imagining it but after I looked at all these and clicked into them without changing anything afterward it seemed the picture was notably improved, with better detail generally, though it could just be the placebo effect.

Ding ding ding! If you're that unsure of your picture quality, I highly doubt anything is wrong with your tv. DITCH THOSE SETTINGS AND DIY using the cal thread for starters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

I have had a number of new buyers use my settings and they were happy with them.
Well I guess we will have agree to disagree here.
Cell Light at anything less than 20 is erroneous advice.
Sharpness at anything more than 0 is erroneous advice.
Both are useless controls said by a Samsung tech who basically
said the Cell Light is a carryover from the LCD/LED sets that Samsung left on the plasma menu.
He said the same about the Sharpness that is should be turned off = 0.
Sharpness turned on results in artifacts.
I can confirm this and it adds to DSE, ringing is the correct word here?

Note that all of the calibrations Larry has posted are from waaay before we knew about the cell light problem. Also, there is no concern about low sharpness settings unless you can percieve these "artifacts", so how about you document them at a setting of 10 and get back to us.

But the main point is that EVERY calibration Larry has posted is DIFFERENT. This is partly due to the fact that he has had multiple panel replacements throughout this period. What this should tell you is that using copied calibrations is a waste of time for these sets, as is eyeballing white balance (especially in warm 1, which will require a large drop in blue gain - clearly your eyes cannot percieve this because your settings are very obviously wrong).
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