Need help finding 1:1 flat screen - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 08-25-2012, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello AVSers!

I am finally able to upgrade my old, seriously burned-in Acer 37" LCD. Since I haven't shopped (or stayed up to date) for TVs in years, and considering I absolutely need 1:1 capability, I thought I'd ask you guys for recommendations. It's really hard to find information about this specific feature for most TV models... and this television will be used almost exclusively with HTPC input. So I need the television to display exactly what I am sending it (just like the old Acer does).

Now, I don't really care that much about LDC vs plasma (although plasma would be prefered)... and I am looking for a 50 to 55" screen. PC input can either be DVI or HDMI... I don't care either way. 1080p is essential and anything 120Hz and over should do.

I am in Canada, so US sold brands/models should also be available here. I am looking to pay no more than 1500$. I am a graphics designer, so image quality is a criteria. I also exclusively watch HD programming and will also use the screen as a computer display from time to time.

So I am hoping some of you know about 1:1 capability of current TV models and can suggest some models I can choose from.

THANKS in advance! As you can guess, your input is invaluable on this! smile.gif
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post #2 of 25 Old 08-25-2012, 12:11 PM
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55st50

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post #3 of 25 Old 08-25-2012, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks lot! Nice TV, the reviews seem very good on PQ and the price is bang on! smile.gif

Do you own this model? Can you confirm it does 1:1 on PC input? This is after all the most important criteria for me...


Also, can anyone else add some other choice appart from this model? It would be nice to be able to choose from 2 or 3 models... altough I've had good experiences with Panasonic TVs in the past.
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post #4 of 25 Old 08-25-2012, 01:43 PM
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Over HDMI it will do 1:1 and didn't u state u will use HDMI for your computer

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post #5 of 25 Old 08-25-2012, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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My current HTPC has HDMI and DVI outputs. They are the same protocol anyway. Right now the HTPC goes to the Acer via DVI and displays 1:1 on screen (DVI is a PC input after all). But I can also use DVI to HDMI or HDMI ot HDMI. I can't see why there would be a difference between the two.

The reason I want to be really sure about this is that my brother bought a LG 40" LCD a few years back. It did 1:1 on TV signals (BR and HD set-top) of course... but when it came to PC input, it crapped out the picture (black bands all around). It is a big loss of quality as you can imagine. We were never able to force it to do 1:1. It must have something to do with overscan or something... confused.gif

So I want to be 100% sure that my next TV will do 1:1 on HDMI from a PC. This is always the main use of my TV... I don't even have a set-top box hooked-up to this one. Even the BR player is an internal unit in the HTPC...
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post #6 of 25 Old 08-25-2012, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoRkZ View Post

My current HTPC has HDMI and DVI outputs. They are the same protocol anyway. Right now the HTPC goes to the Acer via DVI and displays 1:1 on screen (DVI is a PC input after all). But I can also use DVI to HDMI or HDMI ot HDMI. I can't see why there would be a difference between the two.
The reason I want to be really sure about this is that my brother bought a LG 40" LCD a few years back. It did 1:1 on TV signals (BR and HD set-top) of course... but when it came to PC input, it crapped out the picture (black bands all around). It is a big loss of quality as you can imagine. We were never able to force it to do 1:1. It must have something to do with overscan or something... confused.gif
So I want to be 100% sure that my next TV will do 1:1 on HDMI from a PC. This is always the main use of my TV... I don't even have a set-top box hooked-up to this one. Even the BR player is an internal unit in the HTPC...

If you plan to use it as a computer montior I wouldn't get a plasma and if you must have a plasma the samsung plasmas are better with Image Retention.
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post #7 of 25 Old 08-25-2012, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your input (no pun intended)!

Image retention is ghost images being stained into the panel, right? You must know that I don't often use the TV as a monitor per se. Most of the time, when it's on I am watching TV or a movie on it. It's just that it goes through a PC instead of the usual set-top boxes. The rest of the time, it's either off or showing a high-res photos as a screen saver. Does that affect your recommendation?

I don't care about the technology as long as it actually does 1:1 on HDMI input from my HTPC. If anyone has a decent 50-55" model to recommend that actually does 1:1 with a PC signal, that's what I'm gonna go with. There's not much info out there on 1:1 support. That's why I am looking for hands on knowledge about this... so I can buy a TV with complete confidence that it is going to do what it is intended for...
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post #8 of 25 Old 08-26-2012, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Can anyone else suggest any more models with confirmed 1:1 support through HDMI/PC input? As stated, I cannot find any clear info on this... and I'm afraid I will end up with a TV that doesn't work properly with my HTPC. frown.gif
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post #9 of 25 Old 08-26-2012, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoRkZ View Post

Can anyone else suggest any more models with confirmed 1:1 support through HDMI/PC input? As stated, I cannot find any clear info on this... and I'm afraid I will end up with a TV that doesn't work properly with my HTPC. frown.gif


I'm not sure if this applies but the current Samsung's you can change the HDMI label to 'PC'
and get 16ms input lag but it does lock out the color, etc.
This can be done with the e450 and up.
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post #10 of 25 Old 08-26-2012, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

I'm not sure if this applies but the current Samsung's you can change the HDMI label to 'PC'
and get 16ms input lag but it does lock out the color, etc.
This can be done with the e450 and up.

VERY INTERESTING! THANKS! I will investigate this further... this sounds like a really good option for me!

I don't mind loosing picture settings since I don't use them anyway: I normally calibrate the display using my USB color probe. It does a much netter job than looking at color bars anyway... wink.gif
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post #11 of 25 Old 08-27-2012, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I have started contacting manufacturers to try and establish if any of their products will do 1:1 on a HDMI input from a PC (using the TV's native resolution, of course). Since there doesn't seem to be anyone who has thorougly researched this before, I will keep this thread updates as a reference for members who would liike the info later on.

Here's the reply I got from Sony. This is no definitive assurance that the TV would display exactly what I sent it through HDMI... and they are only quoting very expensive models.
Quote:
Thank you for contacting Sony Support.

I understand that you wish to purchase a Sony Television that will accept a 1920x1080 PC input through HDMI connection and maintain a 1:1 ratio on input picture. Please note that XBR55HX929, KDL46HX750 and KDL55HX750 are some of the TV models support 1920/1080 PC input through HDMI connection. However, it does not support 1:1 ratio. Sony TVs only support 16:9 and 4:3 aspect ratio.

KDL46HX750:

http://store.sony.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=100803&storeId=20153&langId=200&productId=8198552921666415284

KDL55HX750:

http://store.sony.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=100803&storeId=20153&langId=200&productId=8198552921666415292

XBR55HX929:

http://store.sony.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=100803&storeId=20153&langId=200&productId=8198552921666312874

For assistance with completing your purchase, please contact one of our Sony sales specialists. They will be happy to help you make the best purchase decision by phone: (888) 289-7669; or by email: customersupport@sonystyle.ca

Thank you for choosing Sony.

Sony of Canada, Ltd.
C3UL
Jacob


EDIT: I asked for more info... and I'm really satisfied with the very specific info they sent! Kudos to Sony support!
Quote:
Jef,

I'm glad to provide the information on displaying 1920x1080 video signals when a Computer is connected to the Sony Television. Please note that when you use an HD15-HD15 or HDMI cable to connect a PC to the Television, the Television can display video resolution in 1920/1080. However, the 1080p timing when applied to the HDMI input will be treated as a video timing and not a PC timing. This will affect the [Preferences] and [Picture & Display] settings. To view PC content, set [Scene Select] to [Graphics], [Wide Mode] to [Full], and [Display Area] to [Full Pixel]. ([Display Area] is configurable only when [Auto Display Area] is set to [Off].)

For presales information regarding the Sony Television, please contact our Sony sales specialists and they will be happy to assist you. You can contact them from the below URL:

http://store.sony.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ContentDisplayView?hideHeaderFooter=false&catalogId=100803&storeId=20153&langId=200&cmsId=Contact_Us

Thank you for choosing Sony.

Sony of Canada, Ltd.
C36N
Bruce
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post #12 of 25 Old 08-27-2012, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's what I gto from Panasonic. I don't need to tell you I'm not buying a Panasonic TV any time soon...
Quote:
Thank you for your e-mail. Please be advised that the PC Input on our Panasonic Viera TVs are the 15-pin D-Sub VGA type. Your computer output resolution can be set to no higher than 1280 x 1024 (maximum allowable) and your refresh rate is to be set to 60Hz. Please note that this is the limitation of the VGA RGB connection. The maximum resolution would be 720p, not 1080p.



In regards to using an HDMI Input on a Panasonic Viera television for computer applications, this cannot be guaranteed as these inputs are designed for home theatre products, ie: DVD, Blu-ray, cable box, game systems, etc.


Thank you.



Sincerely,

Viera Concierge Support Team

Panasonic Canada Inc.



bg


No word from Samsung yet. But I predict I will get the same kind of answers I got from Panasonic.
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post #13 of 25 Old 08-27-2012, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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And now for the lamest answer yet!
Quote:
Dear Jef,

Thank you for contacting Samsung and I have pleasure in providing the following assistance.

You can view the full specs for your device on our website at www.Samsung.com/uk/support.

If you require any further assistance, please contact Samsung again and we will be more than happy to help.

Kind regards,

Lee
Online Support Team
SAMSUNG Customer Support Centre


Yeah, thanks Samsung! I will make sure NOT to buy any of your products... mad.gif
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post #14 of 25 Old 08-27-2012, 10:04 AM
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When you say 1:1, are you talking about the TV being able to display various resolutions without scaling? E.g. show a 1280x720 picture in the centre of the screen with black bars around it? That is what 1:1 means to me (1:1 pixel mapping, no scaling/stretching).
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post #15 of 25 Old 08-27-2012, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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That would be ideal, yes. My old Acer does that. But I would settle for 1:1 when feeding it its native resolution... which isn't easy to find/confirm already. So it appears my chances of finding one that will display any resolution 1:1 are almost nonexistent. But it's not that important... as long as it does 1:1 correctly on native res (which I absolutely need to confirm before buying).

I wrote to Home Theater magazine... maybe someone there knows about this.
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post #16 of 25 Old 08-28-2012, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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It took more than two full days for LG to get back to me... only to provide this answer:
Quote:
Hello Jef.

Any of our 1080p displays will be able to support your needs.

Thank you for choosing LG
Dave H.
LG Customer Service
LG Canada

Of course, I have asked for a much more precise answer, including assurances that the image sent in the TV's native resolution is actually displayed as is on screen. Will update this post when (if) I get a satisfying answer back.
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post #17 of 25 Old 08-28-2012, 11:38 AM
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Here is your answer from 4 years ago.
This is what I said about the current Samsung's to change the HDMI label to 'PC'.

7/23/08

ExcelonGT
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4 Posts. Joined 9/2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry928 View Post

To 1:1 pixel map this panel use an HDMI input.

- from Menu, go to Option > Input Label > set as PC

I know this sounds strange but changing the label to PC actually switches the internal scaler into bypass mode. Verified with a Lumagen HDQ 1 pixel horizontal and vertical test pattern at 1080p/60.
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post #18 of 25 Old 08-28-2012, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Great info! Thanks a lot! smile.gif


So you think this applies to any Samsung model out there? I'd rather buy a Samsung... Sony are expensive. I'm sure they are good products, but I'd rather not spend that much...


I think I'll go to Best Buy this evening and check if the Samsung models still have this PC mode capability... I'll keep you posted.
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post #19 of 25 Old 08-28-2012, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoRkZ View Post

Great info! Thanks a lot! smile.gif
So you think this applies to any Samsung model out there? I'd rather buy a Samsung... Sony are expensive. I'm sure they are good products, but I'd rather not spend that much...
I think I'll go to Best Buy this evening and check if the Samsung models still have this PC mode capability... I'll keep you posted.

I can save you the trip.
I've read posts from new e450/e530/e550 owners the HDMI to PC label does work
and results in no lag time.
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post #20 of 25 Old 08-28-2012, 01:48 PM
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You're basically looking for a set that has no "overscan." 1:1 pixel-to-pixel display, but displaying any other res with black borders. is going to be a tough find. Pretty much every set is capable of disabling overscan, which will net you that perfect 1920x1080 image. On a Samsung, this is selectable as "Screen Fit" or put the TV into "PC" mode, where the overscan is locked out and works great.Overscan is an option on Panasonic plasmas. Also on Sharp LCDs. Also on Sony and Epson projectors!
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post #21 of 25 Old 08-28-2012, 10:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

I can save you the trip.
I've read posts from new e450/e530/e550 owners the HDMI to PC label does work
and results in no lag time.

This is invaluable info! Many thanks for your contribution to my quest for a suitable TV! smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyv2 View Post

You're basically looking for a set that has no "overscan." 1:1 pixel-to-pixel display, but displaying any other res with black borders. is going to be a tough find. Pretty much every set is capable of disabling overscan, which will net you that perfect 1920x1080 image. On a Samsung, this is selectable as "Screen Fit" or put the TV into "PC" mode, where the overscan is locked out and works great.Overscan is an option on Panasonic plasmas. Also on Sharp LCDs. Also on Sony and Epson projectors!

What do you mean by "Overscan is an option"? Did you mean to say it can be disabled? If so, this kind of contradicts what their support rep told me... but then again, do support reps really know what they are talking about most of the time... (I know, my brother was one for a couple of years) tongue.gif

You're right, I realize that hoping for a real 1:1 capable TV is simply wishful thinking. In the off-chance that one actually exist nowadays, it would severely limit my choices. So I will go with the advices you guys have given me and start looking at Samsung. It seems like Sony TVs are (as always) way too expensive for not enough more quality. I already looked at the Samsung e550 range and Panasonic ST50 (if I can switch off overscan)... and it looks like I will have a hard time choosing one over the other. Stay tuned, more hair pulling to come... tongue.gif
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post #22 of 25 Old 08-29-2012, 07:53 AM
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You can switch off overscan on any recent Panasonic, Sharp or Samsung, yes. An actual 1:1 TV is almost impossible to find, since they all do "aspect ratio scaling." I don't mind that. I don't see a problem with that. If it's not being stretched and nothing is being cut off, why not use as much screen as you can, right?
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post #23 of 25 Old 08-29-2012, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyv2 View Post

You can switch off overscan on any recent Panasonic, Sharp or Samsung, yes. An actual 1:1 TV is almost impossible to find, since they all do "aspect ratio scaling." I don't mind that. I don't see a problem with that. If it's not being stretched and nothing is being cut off, why not use as much screen as you can, right?

In some instances I have used the 1:1 mode on smaller resolutions on my old Acer, for instance when playing games since my HTPC is not the most powerful machine there is... and I hate looking at a rescaled image. But you're right, as long as it does at least 1:1 on its native resolution, I will be a happy camper. Anyway, I plan on upgrading my HTPC in the coming months... it should be much more powerful on the graphics side (since right now it is running on a integrated GPU that's almost 4 years old).

The more I look at it, the more I think I'm gonna go with the Panasonic ST50 range... maybe the 55" if the budget permit. I don't play games often and never for more than a hour or two at a time... and the rest of the time, the TV is either turned off, having a movie displayed on it or running a screen saver. So I don't expect too much burn-in problems. And the PQ seems to be the best in its category. So as long as it displays the PC input pixel for pixel, it will probably be the best TV for me. If disabling the overscan doesn't work as it should, I can always return it and have ago at the Samsung...


Once again, thanks a lot for your help! smile.gif
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post #24 of 25 Old 08-29-2012, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoRkZ View Post

In some instances I have used the 1:1 mode on smaller resolutions on my old Acer, for instance when playing games since my HTPC is not the most powerful machine there is... and I hate looking at a rescaled image. But you're right, as long as it does at least 1:1 on its native resolution, I will be a happy camper. Anyway, I plan on upgrading my HTPC in the coming months... it should be much more powerful on the graphics side (since right now it is running on a integrated GPU that's almost 4 years old).
The more I look at it, the more I think I'm gonna go with the Panasonic ST50 range... maybe the 55" if the budget permit. I don't play games often and never for more than a hour or two at a time... and the rest of the time, the TV is either turned off, having a movie displayed on it or running a screen saver. So I don't expect too much burn-in problems. And the PQ seems to be the best in its category. So as long as it displays the PC input pixel for pixel, it will probably be the best TV for me. If disabling the overscan doesn't work as it should, I can always return it and have ago at the Samsung...
Once again, thanks a lot for your help! smile.gif

Probably a good choice. Unless you play a lot of old retro games that do not support 16:9 properly, or your video card is not powerful, you will be gaming at 1080p. I haven't found widescreen to be an issue in any PC game in the last 3-4 years (other than some that require editing the FOV to pull it back a bit).
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post #25 of 25 Old 08-29-2012, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Exactly. And I plan on building my next HTPC around a current generation chipset with a good integrated GPU... so it should run the couple of games I like playing on the HTPC (I don't play often anyway). But since all my content goes through my HTPC, I still wouldn't buy a TV that wouldn't display it like it should. Of course, my 720p content is scaled... but it is so by the PC, so I have control over everything.

I give myself a couple of weeks to find the best price on the ST50... if I get a really good price I'll snatch the 55", if not I'll buy the smaller size as planned. smile.gif
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