Samsung Plasma - Did I purchase a new or refurbished set? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 08-28-2012, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Yesterday I bought a Samsung PN51E8000 from a reputable large chain. It was purchased as new and I was very explicit about wanting new and factory sealed.. I was reassured that they only sell new or advertised as "open box" This chain is not what I would call one of the dodgy firms. I came home with the set, set it up and no buzzing and no dead or stuck pixels but have not been able to do anything in depth examining it. As refurbished sets generally are, the box was new, and everything looked new.

At Lunchtime I decided to register the TV at the Samsung site, partly because I had heard that they extended the warranty for 3 months. I registered but at the last stage I see that my set was noted as "Out of Warranty". This set the bells ringing. I went on with Samsung live chat and I was told that my set showed a date of coming out of the factory in Mexico on May 1 and since the warranty was shown as expiring on July 31st my set was clearly a refurbished one and I should return it for a new one. I went to the store and they will exchange it for a new one but as I indicated to the customer service I wanted to know what was going on as this really bothered me. I was told they never sell refurbished. Copies of my chat with Samsung online support were printed out and given to the store and I also made them log on to my Samsung account to see that it did indeed show "Out of warranty". Very nice person I was dealing with who tried to do what he could within the his mandate.

I came home and decided to phone Samsung and I had two calls. The first person, to paraphrase, said "I am going to help you here today. I am going to extend the warranty for a year.". I said that is not the point of my call. I want to know what happened. I was very polite throughout but he was unable to explain what was going on and simply said "you have a new set". After a bit of this and that, all polite, I was then disconnected. I phoned back and spoke to someone else and explained again. He said "Samsung does not refurbish TVs" which I do not believe in the slightest as their warranty talks about replacing with a refurbished set and I see Samsung's website talking about refurbished sets. He said if it were refurbished there would be no serial number. This still does not make sense as I do know that refurbished has a 3 month warranty and if you could not identify the set how would they know which is which?

To sum it up. What do you think I received? A refurbished set or not? Do refurbished sets have serial numbers which are distinguished by a combination of letters or digits? I am fully aware that the new set coming could actually have problems like buzzing, stuck pixels, blotching etc.
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post #2 of 24 Old 08-28-2012, 05:33 PM
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You can always go into the service menu and check how many hours the TV has on it.

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post #3 of 24 Old 08-28-2012, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by steve1022 View Post

You can always go into the service menu and check how many hours the TV has on it.

Thanks for the reply Steve. However, I don't know if refurbishment includes a complete resetting of any counters. And secondly, I know that entering the service menu in theory may breach your warranty (if I actually have one wink.gif I believe too, but do not know for sure, that it may show when the service menu was last accessed. I really do not want to get in any situation where anybody can point fingers at me for doing anything unauthorized.
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post #4 of 24 Old 08-28-2012, 09:09 PM
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Don't worry about voiding the warranty - they could only do that if you ruined the display. Checking the Hours is not cause for anyone to void a warranty. If the TV has more hours than you put on it, then it could be a refurb or just a returned unit that somehow lost it's warranty status with Samsung (maybe was already registered by it's previous owner?).

And despite what they claimed, Samsung does indeed refurbish TVs and of the 26 Samsung Plasma skews on BB's site, 7 of them are Refurbished. I've also seen refurbs on Samsung's own website before. The biggest problem with buying a Refurbished TV is that they do typically have only a 90 day warranty, where a floor model or customer returned unit typically has the full one year warranty.

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post #5 of 24 Old 08-29-2012, 11:05 AM
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the retailer's offered you a new set, Samsung's offered a full warranty on the one you have. Since someone already registered the warranty on the set prior to your purchase it's fair to assume it's either a Samsung factory refurb or a returned set that was repacked carefully enough by it's original purchaser to fool the retailer's stock personnell into mistaking it for a new set. If the serial number's printed on the box there's a remote chance that an original purchaser went on the Samsung website and registered the set before the box was openned and subsequently returned it unopenned. I doubt if the FBI would be able to backtrack and trace the exact circumstances, and since both the retailer and Samsung have offered to make you whole I think any attempt to do so would be a waste of time.
Your best option at this point would be to decide whether to keep the set and accept Samsung's warranty extension or let the retailer give you a new one. I'd opt for the latter.

Somewhere along the line a mistake occurred on this particular set, and I don't think it's fair to assume that anyone deliberately set out to rip you off.
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post #6 of 24 Old 08-29-2012, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

the retailer's offered you a new set, Samsung's offered a full warranty on the one you have. Since someone already registered the warranty on the set prior to your purchase it's fair to assume it's either a Samsung factory refurb or a returned set that was repacked carefully enough by it's original purchaser to fool the retailer's stock personnell into mistaking it for a new set. If the serial number's printed on the box there's a remote chance that an original purchaser went on the Samsung website and registered the set before the box was openned and subsequently returned it unopenned. I doubt if the FBI would be able to backtrack and trace the exact circumstances, and since both the retailer and Samsung have offered to make you whole I think any attempt to do so would be a waste of time.
Your best option at this point would be to decide whether to keep the set and accept Samsung's warranty extension or let the retailer give you a new one. I'd opt for the latter.

Thanks Steve. It was not carefully repackage as it really was completely immaculate in terms of the taping around the bezel, the manuals, batteries, bracket etc all in original bags, the stand with the tape etc. The box was not double taped. It really looks new (but could be refurbished where they retape etc etc). The key point according to the Samsung online support yesterday was the date of "manufacture" or "refurbishment" being May 1 and a warranty of just 90 days which means refurbished. However, both the Samsung phone customer support people said Samsung does not refurbish sets and this morning Samsung Canada said via email "Samsung Canada does not sell refurbished units. There may be dealers out in the marketplace that sell refurbished Samsung items. These items are not refurbished by Samsung Canada, they will have their own warranty policy with the retailer that sells this to you.". Now I trust the dealer in this completely. So I don't know what happened. The way I see it I will accept a new set just to be safe although I might end up with certain problems I do not have now like stuck or dead pixels or a buzzer. However, I did notice something odd when running the scrolling bar with a lot of dithering on the high ire sections of the bar despite lowered contrast and 45 brightness, movie mode, and all auto everything turned off.

Edit: Neither do I think Samsung tried to rip me off. I think either a mistake happened somewhere along the way from Samsung's part or something is screwed up with their database. I don't see any deep, mendacious plot here. Just wondering what happened.
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post #7 of 24 Old 08-29-2012, 03:55 PM
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It is very odd that the warranty period would start from the date of manufacture and not the date sold. It would not surprise me if the set stayed in a warehouse for 3 months.
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post #8 of 24 Old 08-29-2012, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by weedeater View Post

It is very odd that the warranty period would start from the date of manufacture and not the date sold. It would not surprise me if the set stayed in a warehouse for 3 months.

I agree it seems really odd. Here is an excerpt of my online chat:

Diana K : Is it a refurbished unit.
Diana K : So for a refurbished unit the warranty will be only 3 months.
My name : Brand new or it is supposed to be. If it is not I will be returning it.
Diana K : From date of manufacturing.
My name : I bought it yesterday
Diana K : It is not a brand new TV, it is a refurbished unit.
My name : Can you confirm this 100%?
Diana K : Yes, the warranty only shows 3 months.
My name : can you confirm that I have a refurbished unit?
Diana K : Yes, the please check the date of manufacturing at the back of the TV.
Diana K : The date of manufacturing is: 01.05.2012, and the warranty is upto: 31.07.2012.
Diana K : So, the gaps between them states that the unit is a refurbished unit.
Diana K : I suggest you to show the copy of the chat to the store and see for a brand new TV

I will just wait for my replacement unit on Friday.

Edit: Thanks to all for the replies.
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post #9 of 24 Old 08-29-2012, 05:03 PM
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Who was the "reputable large chain" and why did you buy a open box TV?
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post #10 of 24 Old 08-29-2012, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Who was the "reputable large chain" and why did you buy a open box TV?

Where did I say that this was an open box? I never said anything of the sort. I explained to others here that they only sell new televisions and *advertised as open box". I bought new and it looked new and I have no reason to think that the store tried to pull a fast one on me. I don't think Samsung tried to do anything intentionally either. Something happened. I don't know why. That's that. As regards naming the store, I do not wish to do this, as the person I am dealing with there has tried to help me in any way he can, within his mandate.
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post #11 of 24 Old 08-29-2012, 06:13 PM
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It is very odd that the warranty period would start from the date of manufacture and not the date sold. It would not surprise me if the set stayed in a warehouse for 3 months.

I don't know what the laws are in Canada, but in the USA the warranty begins on the date of purchase, not the date the TV was manufactured and this would have to also be the case in Canada. TVs can sit in a warehouse for over a year before they get sold and i can't imagine a manufacturer allowing the warranty to run out before the TV even gets sold to it's eventual owner. That would just be preposterous - even for Samsung. That phone rep you spoke with has to be wrong - they typically don't know what they're talking about and get crap wrong all the time.

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post #12 of 24 Old 08-29-2012, 06:18 PM
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sorry to say but your story does not add up.
What do you think this means? *advertised as open box"

that doesnt sound like a 'new' TV as in box never opened, has orig tape, etc.
you bought a open box As IN refurbished tv.
anything can go wrong.

and again what is the name of the "reputable large chain" ?
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post #13 of 24 Old 08-29-2012, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

I don't know what the laws are in Canada, but in the USA the warranty begins on the date of purchase, not the date the TV was manufactured and this would have to also be the case in Canada. TVs can sit in a warehouse for over a year before they get sold and i can't imagine a manufacturer allowing the warranty to run out before the TV even gets sold to it's eventual owner. That would just be preposterous - even for Samsung. That phone rep you spoke with has to be wrong - they typically don't know what they're talking about and get crap wrong all the time.

Randy I am sure that is the situation in Canada too. The one indubitable fact is that this came out of a plant in Mexico in May 2012 (on the label on the back of the set). Without my telling her this, by the serial number she seemingly had the exact date (May 1). As you will know the E series only came out this year, and quantities were probably not available much before April. As an aside, another member, after I sent him a private message, having bought his set prior to mine, decided to go through the same procedure as I did and register on the Samsung website. He too was told from the website that he was "out of warranty". Instead of online chat he contacted Samsung by phone and was told that he had a 1 year warranty. He was also told by the Samsung individual that he did not know if it was refurbished or not but the Samsung person did seemingly know his date of purchase. He was given a registration number and was told to quote it if he ever ran into difficulties.
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post #14 of 24 Old 08-29-2012, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

sorry to say but your story does not add up.
What do you think this means? *advertised as open box"

that doesnt sound like a 'new' TV as in box never opened, has orig tape, etc.
you bought a open box As IN refurbished tv.
anything can go wrong.
and again what is the name of the "reputable large chain" ?

Sonyfan, I really do not care what you think. I have no problem with the store as they offer a 30 day no questions asked return policy and they are swapping it out for a new TV on Friday. Others here understand clearly. You do not.

Edit: I will be generous. Some items are advertised as being "open box" in leaflets etc that are mailed. Another edit: Open box is different from refurbished which is different from new. Open box is a returned item which is not sent for refurbishment, either by the manufacturer or the store. I am done.
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post #15 of 24 Old 08-29-2012, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weedeater View Post

It is very odd that the warranty period would start from the date of manufacture and not the date sold. It would not surprise me if the set stayed in a warehouse for 3 months.
We get a lot of GE appliances and sometimes they get installed and remain unused for months. My GE repair guy allows me warranty claims from the date they actually start using them.
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post #16 of 24 Old 08-29-2012, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

sorry to say but your story does not add up.
What do you think this means? *advertised as open box"

that doesnt sound like a 'new' TV as in box never opened, has orig tape, etc.
you bought a open box As IN refurbished tv.
anything can go wrong.
and again what is the name of the "reputable large chain" ?

In your blind relentless defending of anything Samsung, you're not comprehending what the OP clearly said in his first post post. He told them he wanted a NEW set, not a refurb, and they simply assured him that they only sell (A) either brand new sets or (B) open box sets, meaning that they do not sell (C) refurbs. He was sold a NEW set, not an open box, and Samsung is claiming that it's actually a refurb.

I know how disreputable Samsung is as a company, but even they wouldn't be so obvious as to try to pass off a refurb as new stock to the OP's large chain. Someone on Samsung's end must have screwed up.

The name of the chain is inconsequential, and they're obviously taking good care of him regardless of what Samsung's ridiculous claims are.
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post #17 of 24 Old 08-29-2012, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
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The name of the chain is inconsequential,

In your blind relentless negaitive view of Samsung you completely
forgot the possiblity the still nameless store knew the TV had a bad warrenty and tried to sell it anyway.
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post #18 of 24 Old 08-31-2012, 08:28 AM
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Thanks for the reply Steve. However, I don't know if refurbishment includes a complete resetting of any counters. And secondly, I know that entering the service menu in theory may breach your warranty (if I actually have one wink.gif I believe too, but do not know for sure, that it may show when the service menu was last accessed. I really do not want to get in any situation where anybody can point fingers at me for doing anything unauthorized.

FYI, on the D series we have found 2 counters. One, located in the service menu, can be zeroed by factory reset. The real hours of operation timer cannot be reset (by conventional means at least) and is actually easier to access (i.e., not buried in the normal service menu). There is no way Samsung will know you have entered this special menu if you follow these instructions:

1. With the TV on, input this key sequence: MUTE, 7, 3, 7, ENTER
2. A menu will be displayed, do NOT press any more buttons.
3. Your panel's run time (in hours) is the "MRT" value.
4. Press power on the remote, the TV will turn off. The TV is now back to normal and may be turned on again.

Disclaimer: I do not know if this has been confirmed to work on the E series, but I don't see any risk in trying it.
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post #19 of 24 Old 08-31-2012, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

FYI, on the D series we have found 2 counters. One, located in the service menu, can be zeroed by factory reset. The real hours of operation timer cannot be reset (by conventional means at least) and is actually easier to access (i.e., not buried in the normal service menu). There is no way Samsung will know you have entered this special menu if you follow these instructions:
1. With the TV on, input this key sequence: MUTE, 7, 3, 7, ENTER
2. A menu will be displayed, do NOT press any more buttons.
3. Your panel's run time (in hours) is the "MRT" value.
4. Press power on the remote, the TV will turn off. The TV is now back to normal and may be turned on again.
Disclaimer: I do not know if this has been confirmed to work on the E series, but I don't see any risk in trying it.

Thank you so very much. I have pondered whether I should post on this here but on balance I believe it is worthwhile. I will reiterate that I believe the store I purchased this from was innocent in all of this and truly believed they were selling me a new set. I also do not believe that Samsung deliberately tried to sell the store a refurbished set, claiming it was new. As I, and others said, this was probably an error on the part of Samsung. This set was turned on at roughly 6 pm on Monday and I estimate that the usage has been 55 hours - 60 at maximum. The usage counter is 100 hours.

Edit: As mentioned by someone in PM, we don't really know how much runtime there is done at the factory with the panel counter going and apparently the person who PM'ed message had not heard of anyone trying this from an unopened set.

In any event, due to my concerns on Tuesday which I communicated to the store they are delivering a new TV this afternoon.

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post #20 of 24 Old 08-31-2012, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Replacement television arrived and set it up 10 minutes ago. Also made in May 2012 in Mexico. I did the Mute,7,3,7,Enter and this is the result. It just does not seem to stop and with this one I really have no doubt about it. 94 hours?? This is a sad situation.


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post #21 of 24 Old 08-31-2012, 06:04 PM
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The least they could have done was include a tube of K-Y Jelly.
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post #22 of 24 Old 08-31-2012, 06:08 PM
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Replacement television arrived and set it up 10 minutes ago. Also made in May 2012 in Mexico. I did the Mute,7,3,7,Enter and this is the result. It just does not seem to stop and with this one I really have no doubt about it. 94 hours?? This is a sad situation.

Astounding. And very suspicious. Call Samsung and see if/when the warranty on this one expired, and if their records show if it's a refurbished unit.

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post #23 of 24 Old 08-31-2012, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Edit: As mentioned by someone in PM, we don't really know how much runtime there is done at the factory with the panel counter going and apparently the person who PM'ed message had not heard of anyone trying this from an unopened set.
In any event, due to my concerns on Tuesday which I communicated to the store they are delivering a new TV this afternoon.

At least one piece of the puzzle has fallen into place. As you see above, I was told in PM that the people who were very involved in finding this - From at least this thread "Samsung D series FBr fix discussion" - were not sure how many hours a new TV would show for MRT. Well, this poster has answered it (see post below). His advertised as used TV had 12 hours on it when he checked and he had used it for roughly 6 hours already. So MRT in a new TV should be a mere handful of hours close to zero if not zero:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1400627/official-samsung-pnxxe7000-pnxxe8000-owners-thread/2460_60#post_22361904
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post #24 of 24 Old 09-09-2012, 12:30 PM
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So PeterG what has happened in the last 9 days..........
Did you raise hell at that store and finally get a new TV with zero hours?
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