For the naysayers that say *warrantys* are *useless* - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 47 Old 09-01-2012, 05:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I've had bad experiences enough to warrant that depending on electronic item / appliance, I WILL buy a warranty - based on value/service of it.

I just bought one for my VT50, EVEN though all my previous Commercial PF plasma's have never had a issue with them..I
All I've had are plasma's since Circa 2005 .......


For example, the warranty on my Wolf Stove has paid it's price 10X.
I've had at least 10+ service calls and right before the warranty expired, the nice gentleman who's been servicing my machine taught me how to fix their *design issue* on the unit...

So $100 is a drop in the bucket IMO, for a 6 year warranty - aka - Amex paid.
It's a repair - depreciating warranty, but let's just pretend a minimum service call + part is $400.
That one time repair in Year 3+ would have paid for itself....
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post #2 of 47 Old 09-05-2012, 01:47 PM
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It really doesn't matter what you "think". The worth or non worth is simple mathematics. The math is pure and simple. With credit card purchase doubling warranty periods and the statistics for incidence of repair, the overwhelming majority just lose. The people who post "My Uncle Harry had a warranty, he made out like a bandit". cannot fathom that this means absolutely nothing statistically. The purpose of warranties, in most cases, is to solve the emotional needs of the purchaser. That's why dealers sell warranties for $300 that they pay $30 for.

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post #3 of 47 Old 09-05-2012, 02:59 PM
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Extended warranties are generally rip offs, just extending the manufacture warranty won't cover you if the TVs blows out due to power surge or if your panel gets burn in. (which are the biggest things that go wrong with Plasmas generally)

Now those are two things covered under Best Buy's Geek Squad Plan, which is a service plan, not a warranty.

It's basically piece of mind and a back up plan just in case. I'd say that 2 in 10 TVs I sell have issues over the course of their life. It's all about not being those 2 people who get royally screwed, and for some people, it's worth it to get the service plan.

If you're ok with buying another set if this one breaks down, you don't need it. But if it does break down and you don't have the plan, the cost to fix is almost the same as buying a new one. It's really a personal choice.
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post #4 of 47 Old 09-05-2012, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adone36 View Post

It really doesn't matter what you "think". The worth or non worth is simple mathematics. The math is pure and simple. With credit card purchase doubling warranty periods and the statistics for incidence of repair, the overwhelming majority just lose. The people who post "My Uncle Harry had a warranty, he made out like a bandit". cannot fathom that this means absolutely nothing statistically. The purpose of warranties, in most cases, is to solve the emotional needs of the purchaser. That's why dealers sell warranties for $300 that they pay $30 for.

This is what it comes down to for me. Since I have a credit card that double manufacturer warranties, there is little incentive to ever buy the manufacturer extended warranties as they are too expensive for the value provided. Two recent examples:

* Macbook Air for the wife, purchase price $1589, 1 year warranty included, VISA doubles to 2 years, 3 year AppleCare (MFG warranty + useless (to me) phone support) was $199 (12.5% purchase price), so $199 for an extra year warranty? No thanks.
* Panasonic 50UT50, purchase price $899 1 year warranty included, VISA doubles to 2 years, 3 year Panasonic warranty was $179 (20% purchase price!), so $179/20% for an extra year? No thanks.

Service plans are different. I actually had my phone on a cell phone service plan since she had problems dropping/breaking/losing phones, and the emotional comfort of the $10/month was worth it at the time. Then I did the math and realized it would be cheaper to just buy refurbs (and she is a lot more careful with her iPhone 4S versus old Blackberries).
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post #5 of 47 Old 09-05-2012, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueKhaki View Post

Extended warranties are generally rip offs, just extending the manufacture warranty won't cover you if the TVs blows out due to power surge or if your panel gets burn in. (which are the biggest things that go wrong with Plasmas generally)
Now those are two things covered under Best Buy's Geek Squad Plan, which is a service plan, not a warranty.
It's basically piece of mind and a back up plan just in case. I'd say that 2 in 10 TVs I sell have issues over the course of their life. It's all about not being those 2 people who get royally screwed, and for some people, it's worth it to get the service plan.
If you're ok with buying another set if this one breaks down, you don't need it. But if it does break down and you don't have the plan, the cost to fix is almost the same as buying a new one. It's really a personal choice.

Indeed. It is why I went ahead and purchased a 4 year PSB on my 60GT50. The reason I purchased the GT there was that my Sony SXRD was junked and I received a $1200 credit towards the 60GT50. While certainly more expensive than most 3rd Party EC's, BB PSP covers Burn In as well in addition to power surges. Also, recently the PSP changed to where if they are not able to repair a covered TV within 14 days, they go ahead and replace it. I benefited from this when the TV Repairman came out with the Analog Video Board instead of the HDMI Board.

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post #6 of 47 Old 09-05-2012, 09:10 PM
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They also changed the plans to be totally prorated.

So if your Tv breaks down in the 2nd year of a 4 year plan, you get a new TV and 2 years back of the plan.

I know BB gets a bad rap here (and for good reason most of the time) but I think this is actually a really good deal for the consumer
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post #7 of 47 Old 09-06-2012, 10:16 AM
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To the cost of that BB "plan" you have to add the higher price plus sales tax that BB charges that you don't pay with Amazon or somebody else. This is HUNDREDS more on a TV.

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post #8 of 47 Old 09-06-2012, 11:10 AM
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My biggest worry buying their service plan is "will BB be here for the next 5 years?". I do plan to buy my TV from BB, both to buy it with local delivery and to support local businesses, especially now that they price match the internet prices. To me it will be worth the extra $100 in tax to have a local store to take care of it if there are any problems.
But as far as the service plan, I don't know if I want to bet they will be here for the next 5 years though I will do what I can to help keep them in business.
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post #9 of 47 Old 09-06-2012, 12:08 PM
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Most retailer extended warrantys are backed by a third party like GE Financial. AFAIK people who bought them from CC before they closed down are still being covered.

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post #10 of 47 Old 09-06-2012, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

Most retailer extended warrantys are backed by a third party like GE Financial. AFAIK people who bought them from CC before they closed down are still being covered.

Bluekhaki - do you know anything about the bb warranties if something happened to BB? Also, how much do the warranties actually cost for say a $1350 plasma? Do they ever bargain on warranty cost?
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post #11 of 47 Old 09-06-2012, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dzt41j View Post

My biggest worry buying their service plan is "will BB be here for the next 5 years?".


Totally agree, I bought an onkyo receiver brand new from Circuit city with a 5 year warranty plan only for them to go under a few months later! Sucked! BB is in trouble now, all they keep doing is offering me their stupid credit card which was a big pain in the butt when I first had it several years ago (lots of fraud activity), and not to mention they owe me big time for all the money I lost in the stock market. Thanks for nothing!
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post #12 of 47 Old 09-06-2012, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adone36 View Post

It really doesn't matter what you "think". The worth or non worth is simple mathematics. The math is pure and simple. With credit card purchase doubling warranty periods and the statistics for incidence of repair, the overwhelming majority just lose. The people who post "My Uncle Harry had a warranty, he made out like a bandit". cannot fathom that this means absolutely nothing statistically. The purpose of warranties, in most cases, is to solve the emotional needs of the purchaser. That's why dealers sell warranties for $300 that they pay $30 for.

This. Companies sell warranties because they profit on them. Meanwhile some people feel like they need those warranties because "Something might go wrong". Very often the people purchasing the warranties are the ones that cannot afford to replace what they are buying. This then creates an odd situation where the people losing the most money on warranties are the ones that should be saving their money and NOT buying the warranties.

One of my friends sold cars for a few years. They would offer extended warranties for $1600 to $2400 (based on the car), and it was a "bumper to bumper" warranty up to 100K miles. The the net cost of the warranty to the dealer was less than zero, because people buying the warranties had to do all of the scheduled maintenance, and most did it at the dealer. So aside from getting people to commit to a 100K miles of "full service" (which they made money on), they got another $1600+ in straight profit.

In the time he was working (three years), they did almost zero expensive work with the extended warranty period. Drive-train components would fail during the manufacturer warranty period, or last beyond 100K miles. Most of the repairs were for interior parts (switches, handles, buttons) but those were less than $20 to fix so they didn't care. They were pulling over $10K a week in extended warranty sales and spending close to $0 on the repair work.
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post #13 of 47 Old 09-06-2012, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by dzt41j View Post

My biggest worry buying their service plan is "will BB be here for the next 5 years?". I do plan to buy my TV from BB, both to buy it with local delivery and to support local businesses, especially now that they price match the internet prices. To me it will be worth the extra $100 in tax to have a local store to take care of it if there are any problems.
But as far as the service plan, I don't know if I want to bet they will be here for the next 5 years though I will do what I can to help keep them in business.

Hello,
No worries there. While BB is your interface should you need repair, there is another Company who you deal with should it be decided your TV is replaced. This 3rd Party Company actually calls you in this event and if you miss the call as I did, you find out they also handle I think Costco, Home Depot, and many others. It was one of those press 1 for Costco, etc...

Long story short, I the exceedingly unlikely instance that BB goes under in the next 4 years, you are not left in the cold. Just like Asurion was there when Circuit City went under.
It is the terms of their Extended Warranty is what makes it special. Also, I paid less than even Paul's TV for my 60GT50 which in turn made my PSP go from $499 to $329. On top of that, I was able to return the Panasonic BDP that was a GT50 specific Panasonic Promotion at the time thanks to a Night Manger dropping the ball and dropping the price of the GT50 $150 to account for the BDP and put that $160 (after taxes) towards the PSP. Thus, the PSP cost around $150.
Cheers,
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post #14 of 47 Old 09-06-2012, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by dzt41j View Post

Bluekhaki - do you know anything about the bb warranties if something happened to BB? Also, how much do the warranties actually cost for say a $1350 plasma? Do they ever bargain on warranty cost?

All service plans are backed by a third party insurance company. Best Buy won't go under, but dear god do I hope Schulze buys out those morons.

Can't bargain on the service plan cost, but if the price of the TV goes down, so does the protection plan.

The car analogy doesn't really hold weight when discussing TVs to be honest. I agree that the biggest need a plan fulfills for the average customer is piece of mind, but a TV is far different than the car. Small stuff to fix on TVs (speakers, power supply) far exceed the cost of the plans, let alone the panel going. a $2000 TV with a broken panel is around $1400 in some instances, just ridiculous prices.

The very first guy I sold the VT50 to had his TV blow out the other day, came back in today and we're delivering a new one to him in about 4 days, plus he got something like 95% of the purchase price of the plan back, that he just applied to the new one. Plans are straight profit for us out the door, but that's a $3500 TV he just got new
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post #15 of 47 Old 09-06-2012, 08:16 PM
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post #16 of 47 Old 09-07-2012, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueKhaki View Post

All service plans are backed by a third party insurance company. Best Buy won't go under, but dear god do I hope Schulze buys out those morons.
Can't bargain on the service plan cost, but if the price of the TV goes down, so does the protection plan.
The car analogy doesn't really hold weight when discussing TVs to be honest. I agree that the biggest need a plan fulfills for the average customer is piece of mind, but a TV is far different than the car. Small stuff to fix on TVs (speakers, power supply) far exceed the cost of the plans, let alone the panel going. a $2000 TV with a broken panel is around $1400 in some instances, just ridiculous prices.
The very first guy I sold the VT50 to had his TV blow out the other day, came back in today and we're delivering a new one to him in about 4 days, plus he got something like 95% of the purchase price of the plan back, that he just applied to the new one. Plans are straight profit for us out the door, but that's a $3500 TV he just got new

How much are the warranty plans?
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post #17 of 47 Old 09-07-2012, 09:59 AM
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How much are the warranty plans?

off the top of my head I remember price matching the 60GT50 to amazon down to like 1899 and the plan dropped like a 100 bucks to 300.

Still steep, but that's for four years and if it needs to be replaced, you get the 60GTwhatever the current model is and the rest of the plan back.
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post #18 of 47 Old 09-13-2012, 11:45 PM
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I bought a 4yr plan for my 151-FD Kuro at 6th Ave. Once they went under my plan seems to be no good but I have no way of telling. How would I find out if it is still backed by someone.
I only have the original receipt that shows the plan purchased on it but no additional paperwork. Any clues? I need the Kuro serviced too.

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post #19 of 47 Old 09-14-2012, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chefwong 
It's a repair - depreciating warranty, but let's just pretend a minimum service call + part is $400.
That one time repair in Year 3+ would have paid for itself....

well I crunched the numbers & your math checks out- that's all your profit! Congrats!


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for the naysayers that say warrantys are useless

The naysayers!

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post #20 of 47 Old 09-14-2012, 07:17 AM
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I bought a 4yr plan for my 151-FD Kuro at 6th Ave. Once they went under my plan seems to be no good but I have no way of telling. How would I find out if it is still backed by someone. I only have the original receipt that shows the plan purchased on it but no additional paperwork. Any clues? I need the Kuro serviced too.
You should have gotten paperwork with warranty registration information, or a warranty card proving coverage. Although the store you bought it from is out of business, there are usually laws in place to ensure any extended warrantys that were bought remain active - either by the original warranty provider or a new provider appointed by the courts. This happened when Circuit City went out of business - i got a letter that my extended warranty is still good and contained information on who to call should i need repair.

If you never received your extended warranty documentation then you need to contact someone involved in 6th Ave's shutdown and find out who the warranty provider is, and how to make sure you are registered with them. It's possible that 6th Ave took your money but didn't actually get the warranty for you.

Edit - i just Googled and it looks like the deadline to make a claim for your warranty expired last January so you may be out of luck if you don't have your warranty documentation. it looks like they were selling Mack warranties so you might want to contact Mack, as well as the law firm noted in this link:

http://woodbridge.patch.com/articles/how-to-make-a-claim-against-6th-ave-electronics

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post #21 of 47 Old 09-14-2012, 09:52 AM
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To the "most warranties are ripoffs" theme let me add some anecdotal stuff:

1) When you can add three years for $99, a la SquareTrade/Costco, to a purchase made anywhere, the "lousy" math is a lot less lousy. The "ripoff" comes when the expected value of a warranty is -- across the population of buyers -- negative $200-300. A $100 warranty has an expected value close to $100.

2) When you're excited about how well your Wolf stove warranty paid off, it speaks volumes about the quality of the stove. I don't know anyone with a Wolf who hasn't had problems. A different solution is to buy another brand of stove.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #22 of 47 Old 09-14-2012, 10:37 AM
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I bought one on my VT50 from BB. Obviously, some people see value in these plans and some don't. What I don't think is fair is how some here posit that buying an extended warranty is an unequivocal waste of money. All the statistics of probability won't mean a thing to me if I'm the guy with a broken $2000 TV after 18 months. Yes, that's an if, but it certainly doesn't lie outside the realm of possibility that my flagship TV will kick the bucket. The way things are manufactured and the issues posted about these days don't exactly instill confidence. In addition, depending on the plan (we'll use BB here, for instance) the plan may cover things the manufacturer doesn't. Sometimes manufacturer warranties don't really even cover all that much. Plus, I'd rather not deal directly with a manufacturer. Last year when I had to call Sharp, while they were polite, they basically told me to go kick rocks - that my vertical banding looked completely normal, so they weren't going to send someone out to look at my TV. They made me take a ton of pictures and kept giving me the run-around in hopes I'd just give up - and I did.

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post #23 of 47 Old 09-14-2012, 01:29 PM
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You have no idea how ridiculous that sounds. You seem to be manufacturing data that not only is WRONG but the complete opposite of the actual data. Now if I said "take your weekly paycheck to a casino and bet it on black", you'd tell me I was crazy. Yet the probability of doubling your money is 50-50. The probability of collecting on your warranty is MANY MANY times less.

Tell me, did you perchance buy a Prius "to save money on gas"????

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post #24 of 47 Old 09-14-2012, 02:18 PM
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I don't remember the exact numbers, but earlier this year when they changed the terms of Geek Squad Protection to cover more, and drop Black Tie from the name, they told us about 30% of 4 year protection plans get house calls (which means the geek squad technician was able to fix the problem), and 15% need to get it replaced entirely.

If you look at probability, most people that got it never even used it. It's really like fatuglyguy (that sounds terrible to say) said, you really just don't want to be one of those poor people that have an issue with zero plan and the manufacture tells you to take a hike.
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post #25 of 47 Old 09-15-2012, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

I bought one on my VT50 from BB. Obviously, some people see value in these plans and some don't. What I don't think is fair is how some here posit that buying an extended warranty is an unequivocal waste of money. All the statistics of probability won't mean a thing to me if I'm the guy with a broken $2000 TV after 18 months. Yes, that's an if, but it certainly doesn't lie outside the realm of possibility that my flagship TV will kick the bucket. The way things are manufactured and the issues posted about these days don't exactly instill confidence. In addition, depending on the plan (we'll use BB here, for instance) the plan may cover things the manufacturer doesn't. Sometimes manufacturer warranties don't really even cover all that much. Plus, I'd rather not deal directly with a manufacturer. Last year when I had to call Sharp, while they were polite, they basically told me to go kick rocks - that my vertical banding looked completely normal, so they weren't going to send someone out to look at my TV. They made me take a ton of pictures and kept giving me the run-around in hopes I'd just give up - and I did.

I don't thing it is a waste of money if the TV going dead after the warranty expired could create undo financial hardship. I do like the fact that BB will cover burn-in.

I read the Best Buy warranty, and one thing that caught my eye was that they have the optoin of giving you "market value" for the dead TV, rather than replacing it. So if after two years, they determine that the TV is only worth 25% of what you paid, then that's what you may get, in lieu of a repaired TV.

Michael
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post #26 of 47 Old 09-15-2012, 09:08 PM
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I don't thing it is a waste of money if the TV going dead after the warranty expired could create undo financial hardship. I do like the fact that BB will cover burn-in.
I read the Best Buy warranty, and one thing that caught my eye was that they have the optoin of giving you "market value" for the dead TV, rather than replacing it. So if after two years, they determine that the TV is only worth 25% of what you paid, then that's what you may get, in lieu of a repaired TV.
Michael

I just bought the 4 year plan on a new 51e7000 for $250. If I keep the plan I did want it in my free financing so I accepted it today, but I can 'return' it if I decide to. I am confused what to do. If I do return it I would definitely buy the $99 one from Costco.

I do want to clarify the 'market value' thing with BB. My salesman definitely told me if the TV breaks and they can't fix it they will replace it with the current "7000" model, be it the G,H,I whatever.

I dunnoo which way to go.....
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post #27 of 47 Old 09-16-2012, 05:43 AM
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They are in business to make money , lots of money. They know the math works in their favor by a wide margin otherwise its business model would be a no go. I've used them to make me feel better especially if the item is a NEW model without a history.

I've extended a few items if the price is right through square trade almost always 30% off. Usually gifts for other people. Like my moms tv for xmas I extended it because if something goes wrong I didn't want her paying for it. This made me feel better.

Rippoff? Probably a little strong depending on what it cost and what benefits it provides and peace of mind.
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post #28 of 47 Old 09-16-2012, 11:51 AM
 
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I grabbed a 3-year Mack for my Kuro in 2010, mainly because I was considering selling it that year and the prospective buyer wanted the reassurance. However, I ended up keeping it and should be covered if something breaks through 2014. Scary thought is that even if it does fail within the warranty period, who knows if there will be anything on the market with better black levels and overall PQ (not 3D or bells & whistles).
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post #29 of 47 Old 09-16-2012, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dzt41j View Post

I just bought the 4 year plan on a new 51e7000 for $250. If I keep the plan I did want it in my free financing so I accepted it today, but I can 'return' it if I decide to. I am confused what to do. If I do return it I would definitely buy the $99 one from Costco.
I do want to clarify the 'market value' thing with BB. My salesman definitely told me if the TV breaks and they can't fix it they will replace it with the current "7000" model, be it the G,H,I whatever.
I dunnoo which way to go.....

If you returned it, you would be downgrading your coverage with Costco. Warranties don't cover burn in or surge damage, service plans do.

And you would get the comparable model. 51_7000 in whatever year it broke down. Or if the comparable model doesn't exist anymore for whatever reason, you can just get a credit for the purchase price
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post #30 of 47 Old 09-17-2012, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

I bought one on my VT50 from BB. Obviously, some people see value in these plans and some don't. What I don't think is fair is how some here posit that buying an extended warranty is an unequivocal waste of money. All the statistics of probability won't mean a thing to me if I'm the guy with a broken $2000 TV after 18 months. Yes, that's an if, but it certainly doesn't lie outside the realm of possibility that my flagship TV will kick the bucket. The way things are manufactured and the issues posted about these days don't exactly instill confidence. In addition, depending on the plan (we'll use BB here, for instance) the plan may cover things the manufacturer doesn't. Sometimes manufacturer warranties don't really even cover all that much. Plus, I'd rather not deal directly with a manufacturer. Last year when I had to call Sharp, while they were polite, they basically told me to go kick rocks - that my vertical banding looked completely normal, so they weren't going to send someone out to look at my TV. They made me take a ton of pictures and kept giving me the run-around in hopes I'd just give up - and I did.

Your post somewhat affirms what the "warranties are a bad value proposition for consumers" crowd are saying though. As a consumer, your expected outcome on the warranty is significantly less than the cost (say $300), given the probability you will need/use the warranty (under 30%). From your post, you are buying intangible value/peace of mind, which is fine if you place such a value on it. But if you just do the math, it's not a good value for a consumer, but it's a great (and highly profitable) value for the retailer, which is why BB and other stores push so hard on them, and make significant commissions.

For me personally, I just use my VISA cards automatic doubling of manufacturer warranty for consumer purchases.
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