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post #61 of 78 Old 10-01-2012, 06:13 AM
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cottonballs, that video is EXTREMELY impressive and helpful in a comparison manner. That was very well done and especially showing it compared to the SD. That actually gives me quite a bit of hope!

Could you let me know what software you used for this to break it down into frames like that?

I would like to do that to my video I took last night, or possibly capture 2 more videos, to compare how my current TV's work.

As of right now I only have my iPhone 4 to record with, and from what I have read it varies from 24 - 30fps and isn't constant, so I'm not too sure how much that would actually help.

I do have a digital camera which is the Canon S95 that you can lock into 30fps for non-HD video, however I will have to find it.

I'm not sure where I packed it when I moved, but I will try to find it tonight to take a video of Balrog's FP in the slow motion frame-by-frame as you did, to show comparisons of how the 8.5ms Evo Monitor compares to these other TV's.

Chances are I'm going to be purchasing a TV this week though smile.gif
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post #62 of 78 Old 10-01-2012, 07:41 AM
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thanks guys

For me the test is better than nothing, i wish i was able to take 60fps video. Because with my test the e6500 PC mode and Game mode seemed exactly the same, but hdtvtest.co.uk state " Although the PS60E6500 has a dedicated “Game Mode” buried in the menu, ignore it. When a 60hz signal is input, there’s a semi-hidden “PC” mode which has even lower input lag"

Definitely find your camera for the consistency. On mine I'm able to immediately play it back, once paused i can move frame by frame, this helped me count frames and compare on the fly at the store.

You only need to move it to the computer and use software if your camera doesn't allow your to step through the frames, or if you just want to put up some slowmo vids online.

software:
-RAD video tools (only to convert MOV to avi)
-Wax 2.0
-Windows movie maker

My camera saved MOV files, Wax did not take MOV files, so I used RAD to convert to avi. Wax allowed me to scale and place multiple videos into one, then sink each video to the same button press. Then I output to jpeg frames. Imported the jpegs into movie maker and set each frame to a duration of 1 second, added text and then output to WMV. if you are new to video editing, make sure your project is set to the same fps that you are shooting at, most default to 24fps.
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post #63 of 78 Old 10-01-2012, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cottonballs View Post

thanks guys
For me the test is better than nothing, i wish i was able to take 60fps video. Because with my test the e6500 PC mode and Game mode seemed exactly the same, but hdtvtest.co.uk state " Although the PS60E6500 has a dedicated “Game Mode” buried in the menu, ignore it. When a 60hz signal is input, there’s a semi-hidden “PC” mode which has even lower input lag"
Definitely find your camera for the consistency. On mine I'm able to immediately play it back, once paused i can move frame by frame, this helped me count frames and compare on the fly at the store.
You only need to move it to the computer and use software if your camera doesn't allow your to step through the frames, or if you just want to put up some slowmo vids online.
software:
-RAD video tools (only to convert MOV to avi)
-Wax 2.0
-Windows movie maker
My camera saved MOV files, Wax did not take MOV files, so I used RAD to convert to avi. Wax allowed me to scale and place multiple videos into one, then sink each video to the same button press. Then I output to jpeg frames. Imported the jpegs into movie maker and set each frame to a duration of 1 second, added text and then output to WMV. if you are new to video editing, make sure your project is set to the same fps that you are shooting at, most default to 24fps.

Cool man, thanks for the effort you put in for sure.

The fact that the ST50 comes out only 1 frame after the SDTV is pretty convincing to me.

Aside from the actual technical details and numbers of frames, how did it actually "feel" when gaming on the TV? Did you take any time to just play a game you normally play at home, and get the "feel" for how the lag felt?

Because to me that is usually how I can personally tell, just by playing on it and doing a couple combos and just knowing something is off.

I've gone to tournaments in people's houses who didn't really know much about lag, and then the majority of the people who are there get on the TV's and immediately can feel the lag on the TV and it kinda throws the whole tourney off heh. Those of us with experience in fighters with minimal lag and who take the game fairly serious are pretty sensitive to it so it's easy to pick up.

I'm definitely going to try and look for my camera tonight though and will report back if I do.
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post #64 of 78 Old 10-01-2012, 02:52 PM
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Is it smart to play FG on plasma?
I am thinking about IR of course.
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post #65 of 78 Old 10-01-2012, 06:59 PM
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Alright well I found my camera tonight and just took a video on my Evo Monitor and my DLP.

I know it's totally unrelated to Plasma's in general, but since the Evo Monitor is considered "lagless" and is the standard at the actual Evo tournament, I think it is a good baseline to set and compare other displays too.

While this isn't scientific or anything, I think it is a decent start.

My camera is an S95 and I recorded in 30fps mode since it does not have 60fps mode (although it has 24fps but obviously that is worse).

If I have time tonight after MNF or if it becomes a blowout or something, I will try to get a video up like cottonballs, or at least slow mo videos that actually go frame by frame to compare it.
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post #66 of 78 Old 10-01-2012, 07:49 PM
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Okay I lied.

I just created 2 videos. I didn't put them into 1 like cottonballs but they are similar style.

Here are the links.

Evo Monitor - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO67lmKJFHw
Samsung DLP - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf4qv5IFph8

In both videos, the button is pressed on the 4th frame of animation.

Also to note - on the Evo Monitor one, I took about 8-9 fierce punch button presses. All of them the animation started 2 frames after the button press, other than 1. The 1 that varied started the very next frame. I can only assume this has to do with the 30fps camera and the game is actually 60fps, so it is just getting into one of those odd between the frames my camera can pick up.

As you can see, the lag on the DLP is pretty damn atrocious lol.
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post #67 of 78 Old 10-02-2012, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

Aside from the actual technical details and numbers of frames, how did it actually "feel" when gaming on the TV? Did you take any time to just play a game you normally play at home, and get the "feel" for how the lag felt?
Game mode was the same as my home tv, and felt the same to me, i was able to do combos just fine.
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Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

Okay I lied.
As you can see, the lag on the DLP is pretty damn atrocious lol.
Well its the same as both plasmas when not in game mode, 4th frame after button press.

If you are used to the evo monitor @ 2 frames, & dont like the dlp @ 4 frames, i wonder if you will like the plasma in game mode @ 3 frames.
I would recomend trying it out at a store before you buy.
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post #68 of 78 Old 10-02-2012, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cottonballs View Post

Game mode was the same as my home tv, and felt the same to me, i was able to do combos just fine.
Well its the same as both plasmas when not in game mode, 4th frame after button press.
If you are used to the evo monitor @ 2 frames, & dont like the dlp @ 4 frames, i wonder if you will like the plasma in game mode @ 3 frames.
I would recomend trying it out at a store before you buy.

I think I will be okay with it.

The thing is, I don't really have a better option at this point lol.

In the worst case scenario, I won't use my TV to game on and will just use my monitor as I did the past years.

I really wish I had access to a 60fps camera to get solid numbers for these hah.
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post #69 of 78 Old 10-10-2012, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Omnicron View Post

Sounds like it, do you have the E530? Any experience with gaming and input lag on this model?

Yeah, I have the E530. It's fantastic on PC mode, and great on Game Mode. Regular modes are unplayable, though. No regrets here. I play 2D platformers on it constantly and I sleep at night knowing it works well! biggrin.gif

=Tommy v2=
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post #70 of 78 Old 10-10-2012, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyv2 View Post

Yeah, I have the E530. It's fantastic on PC mode, and great on Game Mode. Regular modes are unplayable, though. No regrets here. I play 2D platformers on it constantly and I sleep at night knowing it works well! biggrin.gif

cool, thanks for the response, its sounds like you find the pc better than game mode, so can you actually sense less lag in the pc mode compared to game? How does the picture quality differ between the modes, its been said that the pc mode has less picture options available.
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post #71 of 78 Old 10-11-2012, 07:29 AM
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The PC mode is slightly better by feel. The Game Mode, IMO, is still perfectly good. The PC mode takes away almost every video setting, but most importantly, the only one that matters - colour saturation. It's a shame, because at default settings, it's way too intense and saturated for PS3. For PC use, it's fine, especially since you can change settings at the video card level.

I'm good with the Game Mode. As someone who regularly uses or used 16ms devices (Sony VPL-HW20, Epson 6100/8100/8350, Panasonic GT30 plasma) I am not disappointed or concerned with the E530. If it was the new "best case" lag limit, I wouldn't give up 2D gaming at all. In this day and age, it's practically a godsend.

=Tommy v2=
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post #72 of 78 Old 10-23-2012, 12:21 AM
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Sorry guys, been meaning to post but i've had trouble ever since i recieved the ST50. It had over a dozen pixel issues, and my retailer wasn't acknowledging it as faulty, neither did Panasonic. Spent more time talking between all parties than actually using the damn thing, but since its all cleared up and i recieved a refund, i thought i may as well post my impressions, however limited.

First off, fantastic TV that feels quite responsive for gaming. Compared to most HDTVs it feels extremely nice, however i can safely say that it does indeed lag, it isn't 1f of lag. Rather i believe the lagtest figures are quite spot on, however this is all my impressions after fairly limited time with the TV and fighters that i hadn't played for quite some time. For the most part, it felt pretty good, but as i was using it i swapped quite often between my monitor and the ST50, and that's when things felt especially off. I'd have to adjust my timing slightly for specific things.

This is with limited time with the TV and gaming on it, till i pick up the TV again in the coming holidays. But i'll say that gaming on it was as good as it gets on a HDTV, its very responsive, but honestly considering the type of games, if played competitive at all, i feel we should just keep fighters to CRTs and specific PC monitors.
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post #73 of 78 Old 10-23-2012, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by everlust View Post

Sorry guys, been meaning to post but i've had trouble ever since i recieved the ST50. It had over a dozen pixel issues, and my retailer wasn't acknowledging it as faulty, neither did Panasonic. Spent more time talking between all parties than actually using the damn thing, but since its all cleared up and i recieved a refund, i thought i may as well post my impressions, however limited.
First off, fantastic TV that feels quite responsive for gaming. Compared to most HDTVs it feels extremely nice, however i can safely say that it does indeed lag, it isn't 1f of lag. Rather i believe the lagtest figures are quite spot on, however this is all my impressions after fairly limited time with the TV and fighters that i hadn't played for quite some time. For the most part, it felt pretty good, but as i was using it i swapped quite often between my monitor and the ST50, and that's when things felt especially off. I'd have to adjust my timing slightly for specific things.
This is with limited time with the TV and gaming on it, till i pick up the TV again in the coming holidays. But i'll say that gaming on it was as good as it gets on a HDTV, its very responsive, but honestly considering the type of games, if played competitive at all, i feel we should just keep fighters to CRTs and specific PC monitors.

Good to hear back from you everlust, I was wondering how it went for you. Sounds like a debacle with the dead pixels issue.

I also bit the bullet and bought the ST50, couldnt resist %35 off at Dick Smiths. Picture is killer. I do tend to concur with your opinion about the lag. This is my first flat panel, all crt before hand. I can certainly notice the difference in lag between game mode and and the other picture modes/options. I am yet to test the st50 out fully and wll report back...

Everlust, didnt you say you also had one of last years panasonic plasmas? was it a ut30? If so, im very curious to hear your own personal lag comparison between the 2011 model and your 2012 st50.
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post #74 of 78 Old 11-13-2012, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I got the ST50 today for its picture quality and price. Decided to keep playing on my monitor. It was on sale under 1K.
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post #75 of 78 Old 11-15-2012, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

Does the ST50 have a VGA input on it?
I have the 360 VGA cable and could always hook it up via VGA if that is better than component or HDMI.

You're on the right track. I believe component and VGA are the exact same thing just different shaped plugs. Both analog, which is what helped make CRT so badass. I don't even have a choice as my Xbox is HDMI-less.

I'm reading this thread for the 4th time, hoping for answers.
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post #76 of 78 Old 12-10-2012, 05:16 AM
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i spotted a pana st30 in the wild over the weekend, will playing it with component cables make Tekken have near 0 input lag? or is it a pipedream and will always have 1 frame lag like HDMI?

or is it actually sub-1 frame in lag according to this post and hence will make Tekken (and other fighters) totally playable?

so should I just stick to my trusty CRT since even the 1frame lag will just mess up the timing a lot?

EDIT/ADD:

SO
I finally got the ST30. Input lag seems good, as I can EWGF just fine and dandy on Game Mode. There's definitely noticeable display lag when using the Vivid Mode though.
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post #77 of 78 Old 12-17-2012, 06:05 AM
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Hey all, might not be much help to you but I use a Samsung 59D550 for SF4 and MVC and also Counter Strike and Unreal Tournament for PC.
My observations are that PC mode is better than game mode.
I had no problem calibrating the colours in PC mode. Actually PC mode supports full RGB which reduces colour banding.
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post #78 of 78 Old 12-17-2012, 11:56 PM
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Leo Bodnars new lag tester device is out!

http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=89



Item purchased, waiting for it to come in the mail, big lag test session for the st50 coming up....
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