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post #1 of 23 Old 09-08-2012, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a question about the Panasonic St series vs Gt series. I am in the market for a 60 inch plasma and through my research have found there really is no difference in picture quality between the two.The Gt50 has the THX calibration option which according to a sales guy at BayBloor Radio there would be no need to calibrate the set.My question is would it be better to pay less for the St50 series 60 inch and calibrate it and save money or go with the more expensive Gt50 series 60inch and have the luxury of the THX option for calibration.I have always calibrated my sets by a pro but according to the sales guy this THX option on the GT50 series would eliminate the need to.......any feedback would be greatly appreciated thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 23 Old 09-09-2012, 11:39 AM
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This basic question - and, in fact, almost certainly this Specific Question - has been discussed numerous times, and with a variety of opinions expressed.

Try a search, and you should find multiple hits.

FWIW, OUR decision was to buy the 60ST50 - - - - and NOT have it professionally calibrated. wink.gif

$$ "saved" have permitted a nice increase in our blu-ray inventory.... smile.gif
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post #3 of 23 Old 09-09-2012, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glutamine View Post

I have a question about the Panasonic St series vs Gt series. I am in the market for a 60 inch plasma and through my research have found there really is no difference in picture quality between the two.The Gt50 has the THX calibration option which according to a sales guy at BayBloor Radio there would be no need to calibrate the set.My question is would it be better to pay less for the St50 series 60 inch and calibrate it and save money or go with the more expensive Gt50 series 60inch and have the luxury of the THX option for calibration.I have always calibrated my sets by a pro but according to the sales guy this THX option on the GT50 series would eliminate the need to.......any feedback would be greatly appreciated thanks in advance.


THX mode on a Panasonic is indeed closer to where it should be, but is definitely NOT calibrated to ISF specs. Most times the color temp is under the recommeded D65 color range (.313 x .329 or 6500k), usually in the 5600-5900k range.

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post #4 of 23 Old 09-09-2012, 01:51 PM
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You could always get the free AVS HD709 disk and tweak just the basics; brightness, contrast, sharpness, aspect, color, and see if that leads to any improvement. As far as the THX option goes eliminating the need for calibration, b.s. That's assuming that every GT50 has EXACTLY the same components with EXACTLY the same spec results. The very reason why sharing calibration settings rarely work well.
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post #5 of 23 Old 09-09-2012, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glutamine View Post

I have a question about the Panasonic St series vs Gt series. I am in the market for a 60 inch plasma and through my research have found there really is no difference in picture quality between the two.The Gt50 has the THX calibration option which according to a sales guy at BayBloor Radio there would be no need to calibrate the set.My question is would it be better to pay less for the St50 series 60 inch and calibrate it and save money or go with the more expensive Gt50 series 60inch and have the luxury of the THX option for calibration.I have always calibrated my sets by a pro but according to the sales guy this THX option on the GT50 series would eliminate the need to.......any feedback would be greatly appreciated thanks in advance.

This is a matter personal preference and how picky your eye is. My VT50 pre-calibration the THX Cinema mode was running about 500 degrees cool and the Delta E was all over the place, post calibration is was dead on perfect. Now to most people they would be happy watching my pre-calibration set, but I could see the skin tones were not great. Even my 5 year old Panasonic plasma post calibration was overall better (other than bad blacks) than the VT50 out of the box so for me it was a no brainer to have it calibrated and I was lucky enough to have D-Nice calibrate the set. Besides I am going to get years of happy viewing, well worth the investment to see accurate picture.


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post #6 of 23 Old 09-09-2012, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glutamine View Post

I have a question about the Panasonic St series vs Gt series. I am in the market for a 60 inch plasma and through my research have found there really is no difference in picture quality between the two.The Gt50 has the THX calibration option which according to a sales guy at BayBloor Radio there would be no need to calibrate the set.My question is would it be better to pay less for the St50 series 60 inch and calibrate it and save money or go with the more expensive Gt50 series 60inch and have the luxury of the THX option for calibration.I have always calibrated my sets by a pro but according to the sales guy this THX option on the GT50 series would eliminate the need to.......any feedback would be greatly appreciated thanks in advance.
THX mode is never perfect and it seems to be hit and miss, but most times it's pretty decent. It is not a pre-calibrated mode, it's nearly impossible to do that due to panel variances. It's just another picture mode with slightly better accuracy that meets THX's specs.

Both the ST50 and GT50 (and VT50 for that matter) can benefit from a calibration. The ST50 and GT50 will perform nearly identical after they've been calibrated, so a calibrated ST50 will perform better than an un-calibrated GT50. The GT50 has better options if you want separate day/night settings with the THX modes. The ST50 can get just as bright as the GT50, but it only has one mode that can be calibrated well (Custom). Cinema mode is good too but the gamma is a bit low and there's essentially no way to set the gamma.
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post #7 of 23 Old 09-11-2012, 09:54 PM
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post #8 of 23 Old 09-12-2012, 12:16 AM
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Calibrate or not?

Ask ANY avs guru here who calibrates tv's, for money, & they'll tell you the same thing- heck YES you should get it calibrated! I mean, if you want your TV to handle what you want, you're going to want all that calibration. Best few hundred dollars you'll ever spend.
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post #9 of 23 Old 09-12-2012, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kluken View Post

This is a matter personal preference and how picky your eye is. My VT50 pre-calibration the THX Cinema mode was running about 500 degrees cool and the Delta E was all over the place, post calibration is was dead on perfect. Now to most people they would be happy watching my pre-calibration set, but I could see the skin tones were not great. Even my 5 year old Panasonic plasma post calibration was overall better (other than bad blacks) than the VT50 out of the box so for me it was a no brainer to have it calibrated and I was lucky enough to have D-Nice calibrate the set. Besides I am going to get years of happy viewing, well worth the investment to see accurate picture.
]

The reason for the lower temp in the default settings is that Warm2 is used, I believe D-Nice uses Normal or maybe Warm1 when he calibrates.
If there is not a change (or very little) in the default CMS or grayscale setting, that's were you will end-up using Warm 2 as your temp setting. Using Warm 1 you will see (If the default CMS and grayscale settings are used) about a D6830 temp reading, Neutral you will see about a D8000 before a very good calibration like the one D-Nice did for you. D6510 is ideal.

Anyway those calibration charts are very good, you should be a very happy camper.

ss
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post #10 of 23 Old 09-12-2012, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

The reason for the lower temp in the default settings is that Warm2 is used, I believe D-Nice uses Normal or maybe Warm1 when he calibrates.
If there is not a change (or very little) in the default CMS or grayscale setting, that's were you will end-up using Warm 2 as your temp setting. Using Warm 1 you will see (If the default CMS and grayscale settings are used) about a D6830 temp reading, Neutral you will see about a D8000 before a very good calibration like the one D-Nice did for you. D6510 is ideal.
Anyway those calibration charts are very good, you should be a very happy camper.
ss

I am, the picture looks dead on and amazing! My only complaint is while I understand that ideal setting for sharpness is 0, I tend to like to dial in a little sharpness, unfortunately with ISF mode all those settings are locked out once the calibration is done.
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post #11 of 23 Old 09-12-2012, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by kluken View Post

I am, the picture looks dead on and amazing! My only complaint is while I understand that ideal setting for sharpness is 0, I tend to like to dial in a little sharpness, unfortunately with ISF mode all those settings are locked out once the calibration is done.
you need a derbee thing then.

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post #12 of 23 Old 09-12-2012, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Scottthehat View Post

you need a derbee thing then.

I wonder how much it really improves the picture vs. alters it. I mean the VT50 PQ is exceptional, I hear all this crap about poor source and bad up conversion, but I feed my Dish HD receiver via BJ Cables Component, but honestly I have done A/B as I feed it HDMI through my AVR and honestly it is impossible to see difference maybe unless I get 12 inches from screen.
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post #13 of 23 Old 09-13-2012, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by kluken View Post

I am, the picture looks dead on and amazing! My only complaint is while I understand that ideal setting for sharpness is 0, I tend to like to dial in a little sharpness, unfortunately with ISF mode all those settings are locked out once the calibration is done.

The cheapest way I know to access and change settings in ISF mode is using Controlcal. However with setting like the ones you have in ISF mode, I would just leave those settings as is. Sharpness is set at 0 for a reason, when you start to change settings like the ones you have chances are you will do more harm than good.

ss
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post #14 of 23 Old 09-13-2012, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

The cheapest way I know to access and change settings in ISF mode is using Controlcal. However with setting like the ones you have in ISF mode, I would just leave those settings as is. Sharpness is set at 0 for a reason, when you start to change settings like the ones you have chances are you will do more harm than good.
ss

Agreed! I did have him copy the ISF setting to customer mode so i can always tweak it there and keep one input set to Custom. Even at 0 it is still very sharp.
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post #15 of 23 Old 09-13-2012, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Leon! View Post

Ask ANY avs guru here who calibrates tv's, for money, & they'll tell you the same thing- heck YES you should get it calibrated! I mean, if you want your TV to handle what you want, you're going to want all that calibration. Best few hundred dollars you'll ever spend.
Ask any Taxi Driver if it's better to take a cab or drive and they'll say take the cab...Ask any Carpenter wood or metal cabinetry and they'll say wood...Ask any crack dealer whether snorting coke or smoking crack is better and they'll hand you the pipe...What's that prove?
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post #16 of 23 Old 09-13-2012, 10:46 PM
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While that may be true, for anyone who is a videophile / HT enthusiast who cares at all about PQ, then a quality calibration is the only way you can get an accurate picture. It all depends on how picky you are.
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post #17 of 23 Old 09-13-2012, 11:43 PM
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I have come to believe that a calibration is a necessity.
With the coming of age of HD available content and the mix of SD and
broadcast differences of stations, only a cal'd set will allow
enjoyment across all media.

Loving D65
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post #18 of 23 Old 09-14-2012, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

Ask any Taxi Driver if it's better to take a cab or drive and they'll say take the cab...Ask any Carpenter wood or metal cabinetry and they'll say wood...Ask any crack dealer whether snorting coke or smoking crack is better and they'll hand you the pipe...What's that prove?

That they are by far the most knowledgeable experts we have access to here, so i'd listen to what they have to say.

What's your point? Comparing our AVS calibrating gurus to crack dealers? Seriously?

rolleyes.gif
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post #19 of 23 Old 09-14-2012, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post

I have come to believe that a calibration is a necessity.
With the coming of age of HD available content and the mix of SD and
broadcast differences of stations, only a cal'd set will allow
enjoyment across all media.
How can a process that optimizes the presentation chain based on one source and one set of circumstances produce optimal results across a 'mix of SD and broadcast differences of stations'? I could see it for a home theater projector that only sources from a particular BluRay player, but if the sources vary then all bets are off.
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Originally Posted by Leon! View Post

That they are by far the most knowledgeable experts we have access to here, so i'd listen to what they have to say.
What's your point? Comparing our AVS calibrating gurus to crack dealers? Seriously?
rolleyes.gif
I'm saying the average consumer doesn't need it and the average AVS reader is capable of making adjustments that can pleasure themselves. After all, the reason a TV has adjustments is to compensate for room conditions and personal preference. I used to engineer at a Public Access TV station and once a week or so we'd go through with Color Bars and a blue filter to insure the monitors matched. That was to ensure that the volunteer producers and editors would see their productions consistently through the production chain. Their productions were still 'colored' by personal interpretation of what good video looked like. I'd rather spend that 'few hundred dollars' on content.
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post #20 of 23 Old 09-14-2012, 09:05 AM
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So you're saying a calibration is worthless, or...?

Picture adjustments aren't just there to compensate for room conditions or personal preference, they're there for calibration because it's nearly impossible to pre-calibrate a display that's in mass production. It would cost way too much to manufacture a display that has minimal panel variance to have a good return. Certain models have terrible out of the box picture and panel variance is all over the place.

The average AVS reader usually desperately seeks for 'calibration settings'. The average joe can tweak the picture to their liking. To us videophiles / HT enthusiasts, a calibration is essential. Whatever satisfies you, that's all that matters.
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post #21 of 23 Old 09-14-2012, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

How can a process that optimizes the presentation chain based on one source and one set of circumstances produce optimal results across a 'mix of SD and broadcast differences of stations'? I could see it for a home theater projector that only sources from a particular BluRay player, but if the sources vary then all bets are off.
I'm saying the average consumer doesn't need it and the average AVS reader is capable of making adjustments that can pleasure themselves. After all, the reason a TV has adjustments is to compensate for room conditions and personal preference. I used to engineer at a Public Access TV station and once a week or so we'd go through with Color Bars and a blue filter to insure the monitors matched. That was to ensure that the volunteer producers and editors would see their productions consistently through the production chain. Their productions were still 'colored' by personal interpretation of what good video looked like. I'd rather spend that 'few hundred dollars' on content.

good.

Loving D65
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post #22 of 23 Old 09-14-2012, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post

good.

Calibration has to do with a reference standard. If you are not interested in that and you cannot see the difference on a professionally calibrated display, then don't calibrate.
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post #23 of 23 Old 09-14-2012, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post

Calibration has to do with a reference standard. If you are not interested in that and you cannot see the difference on a professionally calibrated display, then don't calibrate.

RIF

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