Help me decide on a gaming plasma! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 10-08-2012, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Let me preface by saying I've not have a TV for the last 10 years. I've been a diehard computer user, and now, I decided on purchasing a television.

From what I understand, gaming is better on a plasma, due to input lag. This is the most important thing to me, as most of the games I play are very fast twitch games, or rhythm games. (DDR, Nes games, Snes games, etc)

The other important things to me, in no particular order, would probably be

-Display quality
-Extra features
-Size (not screen size, but slimness, etc) / noise / heat

3D isn't that important, but if I do purchase a television with it, I'm not a huge fan of active... and I was under the assumption that passive has been getting much better lately?

Size, ideally, would be 50-60"


I've been looking a bit at the ST50 and GT50 televisions from Panasonic.


Can anyone assist me in picking something out? Thank you... I am very clueless about TVs.
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post #2 of 17 Old 10-09-2012, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Also a bit worried about glare


Thanks!
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post #3 of 17 Old 10-15-2012, 05:38 AM
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The plasma market is small and there isn't much choice. Panasonic ST, GT and VT are typical choices for better picture quality but you won;t notice a big advantage to the GT over the ST.

Were you planning on using the TV as a computer monitor? Plasmas aren't very good for that purpose as they suffer image retention when images are displayed statically for long periods of time.

Are those old 4:3 gaming consoles?
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post #4 of 17 Old 10-15-2012, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homerging View Post

The plasma market is small and there isn't much choice. Panasonic ST, GT and VT are typical choices for better picture quality but you won;t notice a big advantage to the GT over the ST.
Were you planning on using the TV as a computer monitor? Plasmas aren't very good for that purpose as they suffer image retention when images are displayed statically for long periods of time.
Are those old 4:3 gaming consoles?

THanks for making me feel old ;-) Yes NES and SNES are 4:3 systems......


That being said, while Plasmas are usually good for gaming, if you primarily deal with the classic gaming systems I might recommend an LCD TV to prevent IR\Burn in issues.LCDs will also do better in bright rooms..

What some do is ahve a small computer LCD (low to zero inpt lag) as thier gaming screen and a larger screen for TV\Movies.....
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post #5 of 17 Old 10-15-2012, 08:13 AM
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I don't think I've ever seen either, everyone bought Segas.

I was also thinking heavy 4:3 gaming on a 16:9 plasma is not such a good idea. There are 4:3 plasmas but they weren't sold in America.

Probably the best thing for old 4:3 consoles would be a real standard definition 4:3 CRT, especially as some consoles had S-video or RGBS as their best output and good luck making that work with a new LCD frown.gif
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post #6 of 17 Old 10-15-2012, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homerging View Post

I don't think I've ever seen either, everyone bought Segas.
I was also thinking heavy 4:3 gaming on a 16:9 plasma is not such a good idea. There are 4:3 plasmas but they weren't sold in America.
Probably the best thing for old 4:3 consoles would be a real standard definition 4:3 CRT, especially as some consoles had S-video or RGBS as their best output and good luck making that work with a new LCD frown.gif

the NES\SNES where hugely popular (Mario, Duck Hunt,StarFox ect) I got a Sega system, but was quite aware of the SNES at the same time and had an NES before the Genisis......

Its def going to take work if thats what the OP is gaming with. With current TVs lack of S Video, ect adapters or an AVR will be needed most likely.......Its one of the drawbacks of gaming with older systems.....
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post #7 of 17 Old 11-18-2012, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I was thinking of using a reciever with those input modes. No biggie. 4:3 isnt an issue either... Most TVs have a fill mode.
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post #8 of 17 Old 11-18-2012, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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So basically I need a TV with sub-1 frame of input lag (less than 16ms) and ideally goof quality and 50-60"

I was told of a samsung plasma that fits this as well, and that ONE of the new samsungs plasmas does as well. I fprgot the website, but it was linked in a thread on here that had a list of all subframe input lag hdtvs. Unfortunately i cannot have a 2nd TV for gaming. The room nor family would allow it.

Part 2 is a I need a AV reciver. Something high quality would be nice, under 1.5k. Needs composite inputs, and cant introduce any additional input lag. Any suggestions would be fantastic! Thanks so much.


EDIT: I bought a GT50 for my mom, and while its great, the input lag is too high.
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post #9 of 17 Old 11-18-2012, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theaero View Post

So basically I need a TV with sub-1 frame of input lag (less than 16ms) and ideally goof quality and 50-60"

I was told of a samsung plasma that fits this as well, and that ONE of the new samsungs plasmas does as well. I fprgot the website, but it was linked in a thread on here that had a list of all subframe input lag hdtvs. Unfortunately i cannot have a 2nd TV for gaming. The room nor family would allow it.

Part 2 is a I need a AV reciver. Something high quality would be nice, under 1.5k. Needs composite inputs, and cant introduce any additional input lag. Any suggestions would be fantastic! Thanks so much.


EDIT: I bought a GT50 for my mom, and while its great, the input lag is too high.

FWIW, I bought my mom a VT50, and while its picture is fantastic for movies, its input lag is real bad, even in game mode, which then in turn makes the picture not as good as well :-(

In general, my testing revealed that plasmas soften the picture too much for gaming IMO. They do look great, but for me, better on movies. I tested side by side several tvs (no plan or bias'ness towards plasma or LCD, just going for BEST) ... LONG story short, had it down to 3 choices on PQ alone - The Sony XBR950, the Panasonic VT50 or the Sharp Elite. For movies, I was really like the honest and softness of the VT50..., (but me being a 85% gamer) the moment I tested Input lag, man, the VT50 was the worse. But I was still going to give it a chance in my decision, until, I really compared the PQ on several different games (Skyrim, Dragon's Dogma, Resident Evil, etc..) and it was a hands down decision... I liked how sharp and crisp the Sony and Elite were... The VT50 just dulled the game graphics out too much for me.

Then after long comparisons between the Elite and XBR950, I noticed the 950 had a better viewing angle, (and even its viewing angle aint that great).. AND the biggest issue with the Elite was I could not find one setting on it to properly play a scene of "motion test" I had. The 950 totally had it kilt on motion... SO I went with the Sony XBR950 - IMO the best TV out now for gaming. And everything else for that matter.

After I brought it home, and was able to keep comparing it to my moms VT50, I am very happy with the 950. For sure. I like its brightness contrast (darker darks to brighter lights) vs the VT50 and for sure its Input Lag is better. BUT I will warn you. Even its input lag is still too much IMO. I can't believe its 2012 (almost 2013) and we have to deal with something as primitive as Input Lag.

Anyway, hope this helps - good luck in your ventures :-)
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post #10 of 17 Old 11-18-2012, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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PQ isnt even that important to me, I can deal with not having the BEST picture. Input lag comes first, everything else is just an added bonus smile.gif.
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post #11 of 17 Old 11-18-2012, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theaero View Post

PQ isnt even that important to me, I can deal with not having the BEST picture. Input lag comes first, everything else is just an added bonus smile.gif.

Understood. Well then to be honest, I am unsure if a Plasma is best for you at all. Might wanna go a Monitor route, or if your a size hound, then a DLP. DLP has close to zero lag I heard. Same with monitors. But monitors are like 23" max.... DLP are like 65" minimum ! lol --

Everywhere in-between, frankly, I think you will be disappointed in Input Lag. I know I was/am.

Seriously man, now that I think about it, DLP is your best bet. I almost went that route for Input Lag reasons, BUT 2 issues for me. One was they are too big for the space I currently have. And their PQ is just one notch below LCD's. Unnoticeable to most people though. Its that close.

I heard there is some very minor upkeep with them. No big deal, like every 5 years you will need to replace some $100 part in there or something like that. But their Input Lag is best bar none, for sure.

Have you thought about going with a DLP before ?
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post #12 of 17 Old 11-18-2012, 07:51 PM
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I currently use my Samsung PN51E550 for gaming. I primarily use my Xbox 360 on it, but it does get some PC game time in as well. Mind you, it does feature active 3D, but you don't have to use it if you don't want to. Keep in mind that active 3D is far superior to passive in terms of picture quality and 3D effect. I find the 3D to be very good with some tweaking, and I'd be happy to share my settings should you decide on this set. The TV retails for around $850 USD. I've been playing loads of Halo 4 on it, and as long as I set the screen wipe feature on it (or just watch TV) for an hour or so after my long gaming bouts, I don't see any IR on a white screen (Halo 4 DOES implement a HUD that has slight transparency, which helps with that). That being said, games with more prominent HUD's, such as Battlefield 3, have caused IR, but, like I said, the issue can be negated long as you put on some other fullscreen content when you aren't gaming. I really can't stress that enough if you want to use a plasma for gaming and don't want to see any burn-in.

As far as input lag goes, I don't even have game mode enabled, and I don't have any problems with it. I have all my games passing through the HDMI receiver below as well, with no noticeable lag. On the TV's default settings, I've played Rock Band and DJ Hero on it without any need for calibration. I see games like that as the ultimate gaming input lag test, and, in my opinion, the TV passes with flying colors (no pun intended!).

In regards to an HDMI receiver, I purchased an Onkyo HTiaB from Amazon a while back for under $300. It's basically an entry-level setup for a small to mid-sized room, and includes pretty decent speakers and a subwoofer. I use it in my bedroom, and love it. It also features 3D passthrough, so it's compatible with anything you throw at it. Take a look: http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-HT-S3500-5-1-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B0077V88V8/ref=dp_ob_title_ce It's obviously not the best you can get, but offers a good bang for your buck. Not really recommended for use in a large room, as the speakers are fairly small and it only pushes 110W, though it does get pretty damn loud. Be prepared to buy speaker wire if you go with this, though.

As other users have said in this thread, you may want to consider an LCD or LED. I do believe that plasma has the superior picture for gaming, as LCD/LED's have motion blur. Plasma doesn't, which is a huge deal for me in terms of gaming. However, plasma TV's require an extra amount of care from gamers in order to avoid ruining a set with burn-in from constant and repeated gaming sessions. If you want a TV that you can just play the hell out of games on and never have to think twice about it, perhaps an LCD or LED is the way to go, especially if you're considering playing a lot of 4:3 content on it.
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post #13 of 17 Old 11-18-2012, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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No to TV as computee monitor. It would be used for NES/SNES/Wii/Xbox 360/PS3. I have a iMac for my computer monitor.
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post #14 of 17 Old 11-18-2012, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Im fine with LCD, as long as its sub-1frame input lag (16ms or less)
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post #15 of 17 Old 11-19-2012, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theaero View Post

Im fine with LCD, as long as its sub-1frame input lag (16ms or less)

Careful with "specs" , as unfortunately they seem to mean nothing to these manufactures. I've tested a few TVs with claims of 16ms or under which preformed worse than other TVs claiming 24-32ms, etc.. And vice versa. It all means nothing. You have to get your hands on it and test it for yourself. Doing that, if your like me, you will notice they ALL are bad. Except Monitors and DLP's.

Motion blur is a thing of the past with the XBR950 I tested. Trust me, it actually handles motion better than ALL TV's I tested including Plasmas ! Plasmas have their motion issues too. They are like jerky panned shots, and you need to set proper motion smoothening on them as well.

I can not stress enough, if your ok with a SLIGHTLY less than perfect PQ, go with DLP HDTV's, and Input Lag is a thing of the past. IF PQ is your main thing (like me) then its either the VT50 (plasma) or the XBR950 (LEDLCD) and just put up with the input lag. Or Yomaster is saying he is getting good results from the Samsung PN51E550 - I did not test that one I do not think.. I tested so many Samsungs I forgot (as they seem to be the most popular and have the market flooded due to their pricing)... but I found everyone of their PQ not good enough for me.
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post #16 of 17 Old 11-20-2012, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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post #17 of 17 Old 11-20-2012, 04:14 PM
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i'm in the same boat as op-

these threads may be of some help:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1428231/gaming-plasma-fighting-games-mvc2-umvc3-sf4/30

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1166196/the-official-plasma-input-lag-thread/390

from the fighting game thread i gathered that the north american samsung e6500 may have ~16ms lag with an hdmi pc input trick. There is also discussion about different testing methods between (and even during) reviews.

i've also heard that professional monitors sometimes do little image processing and may be less laggy than consumer tvs. how does one go about researching/buying a plasma monitor though?

as for your snes and any other retro consoles i HIGHLY recommend you read info here: http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/ and read the info available on the excellent gamesx.com site and forums. you may need to look into an xrgb as its the most popular device to properly scale old consoles.
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