issues with my 55ST50 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 11-03-2012, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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posting this in a separate thread since the official ST50 thread has turned into 2 guys bickering about stupid crap

i just set up my new 55ST50 a few days ago. first plasma ever, so i have almost no experience with them. i have owned several LCDs and LEDs. i have a few things to ask.

I am -very- happy with the colors and blacks. they are so far beyond what my LCD produced i cant believe it. the sharpness of the screen is also superb. i have been extremely happy with the 2D playback of blurays, but have noticed quite a bit of crosstalk on 3D blurays (avatar, tron, prometheus). i am not sure if you can reduce crosstalk somehow through calibration.... but it is something that may end up causing me to return the set and get something else, as we bought the set with watching 3D movies in mind. some scenes will be perfectly fine but if there is ever a bright light (like a lamp or something) in the scene, you will almost always see a second "ghostly" version of it off to the side a bit. in movies like avatar and prometheus, this can really jack up the viewing experience as there are lights like this all the time.

my main concern is the TVs performance while playing games on my xbox. i have always heard that plasma has the best motion processing of any panel, but i have to say after playing games on it for a good 3-4 hours yesterday, i am horribly disappointed.

3 things stand out that have me disappointed with my first plasma purchase:

#1- moving the camera quickly in games like Assassins Creed 3 causes the picture to become completely blurred out, and everything on the screen produces a triple image with the actual object in the middle and "ghostly" versions of the object slightly to the left and right. also, these "ghostly" versions of the image are strange colors, typically either red or yellow. this is PARTICULARLY noticeable if you move the camera quickly and there is anything that is stark white on the screen, as it will produce VERY noticeable, bright yellow "ghostly" images to the sides of the object. As an example, mission markers in the game are typically white text with a symbol, but if you rotate the camera while they are up on the screen, the text will blurr out and become bright yellow while the camera is moving quickly, and then return to white when the camera stops. this happens with pretty much everything in games.... including while playing sports games, or anything that involves really fast movement. This is not "motion blur" as produced as a graphical effect by the game, i know what that looks like. this is how the panel is handling fast movement.

This is beyond distracting while playing, as when you quickly move the camera in any direction, the screen almost becomes a rainbow of colors with triple images everywhere. i have tried turning motion smoothing on.... i have tried fiddling with settings. motion smoothing works sometimes but when the framerate of the game drops it just makes the game look horribly jerky and awkward. honestly it looks exactly like an issue that i had on an LCD for my PC.... but i didnt think plasmas could have anything like this. it was also my understanding that plasmas had pretty much perfect motion processing thanks to their incredibly high refresh rate, but as it looks on my screen, motion is WAY worse on this plasma than my 5 year old sammy LCD.

#2- the screen uniformity on this plasma leaves something to be greatly desired. on a white, or grey screen, there is a 4-5" round area that is a soft pink color in the top left hand side, and then the ENTIRE right hand side, and lower right corner, are bordered in about a 3" section of soft pink. the rest of the screen seems fine. Now, when you are watching a movie or TV, you cannot see this. typically even if the screen is fairly light you cannot see it. however, in games, the screen will often go to loading screens that are light colors and you -can- see it. i am not sure if this is something that is typical for plasmas.... but again, i was told that plasmas have the absolutely best screen uniformity you can find, and with this soft pink issue, the uniformity on this set is WAY worse than anything i have ever seen out of my LCDs

#3- buzzing. 2 of the LCDs in the past buzzed when on vhite or near white screens, however if there was nearly ANY volume coming out of the TV, you could not hear the buzzing over it. This panny, however, if on a light colored screen.... or particularly when viewing 3D content of any kind (the buzzing really ramps up during 3D viewing).... buzzes, loudly. i sit about 9ft from my screen, and in a low volume sceen in movies or games, you can hear the set buzzing. even with people talking, if there is no music playing or something and the screen is very light, you can hear the buzzing over their talking. now.... im not going to say this particular thing is a deal breaker because really, it is infrequent that i notice it because the screen really has to be bright and the volume has to be relatively quiet, but there is a lot more, and louder, buzzing than i would have ever expected

if anyone has any suggestions on how to eliminate or lessen any of these issues, please let me know. im going to give the set another week or so and see if any of these things really start to bother me (im almost sure the blurring and triple images/rainbow colors while gaming will be a deal breaker though).

also... anyone know how to get the 3:2 pulldown setting to not always be greyed out? and when is it appropriate to use it? only BD playback? gaming? any HD content? thanks
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post #2 of 20 Old 11-03-2012, 04:44 PM
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YOu should really post your settings so we can take that out of the equation........
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post #3 of 20 Old 11-03-2012, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

YOu should really post your settings so we can take that out of the equation........

how does settings have anything to do with patches of pink, buzzing, and extremely poor motion processing?

either way... here they are. i copied them from CNETs post about optimum settings for the ST50

--Picture menu
Picture mode: Custom
Contrast: +82
Brightness: +60
Color: +46
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0
Color temp: Warm 2
Color mgmt: Off [grayed out]
C.A.T.S.: Off
Video NR: Off

-- Pro settings submenu
Color space: Normal
W/B high R: +10
W/B high G: 0
W/B high B: +3
W/B low R: +4
W/B low G: 0
W/B low B: -2
Black extension: 0
Gamma adjustment: 2.6
Panel brightness: Mid
Contour emphasis: Off
AGC: 0

-- Aspect adjustments submenu
Screen format: Full
HD size: Size 2
H size: [grayed out]
Zoom adjustments: [grayed out]

-- HDMI settings: [no change from default]

--Advanced picture submenu
3D Y/C filter: Off [grayed out]
Color matrix: HD [grayed out]
Block NR: Off [grayed out]
Mosquito NR: Off
Motion smoother: Medium
Black level: Light
3:2 pulldown: off [greyed out]
24p Direct in: 60Hz [greyed out]
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post #4 of 20 Old 11-03-2012, 09:08 PM
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As far as the uniformity, and buzzing issues, I would exchange the set. It is not normal.

As far as motion blur, do you have all the image processing turned off? That set has 900 lines of motion resolution. You shouldn't be getting any blurring.

Michael
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post #5 of 20 Old 11-03-2012, 10:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Michael2000 View Post

As far as the uniformity, and buzzing issues, I would exchange the set. It is not normal.
As far as motion blur, do you have all the image processing turned off? That set has 900 lines of motion resolution. You shouldn't be getting any blurring.
Michael

i think so? can you tell me what all is under the blanket of "motion processing"? maybe i missed something?

im less concerned about the blurring and more concerned about the triple image, with rainbow colors. the ghostly images that come out are typically a solid other color.... like red and yellow, or blue and yellow.... or whatever, based on whatever color the actual object is.
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post #6 of 20 Old 11-04-2012, 12:11 AM
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#1 also frustrates me. Its probably my only real problem with the TV. I also thought plasmas were superior with motion. This effect is called judder. This only happens with 30fps games though. I wish more games were 60fps. I think the plasma is simply showing what it is receiving.

I hear LCDs do not have this issue. How does plasma have better motion handling than LCD with this issue? Never understood it. I hear judder is a problem with all plasmas so I am not sure.
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post #7 of 20 Old 11-04-2012, 12:43 AM
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getting ready to pull the trigger on the 65st50 as soon as best buy secures more stock as they are currently sold out. #1 really concerns me as this is the first ive heard of this problem and plan on doing alot of fps gaming.
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post #8 of 20 Old 11-04-2012, 01:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Frankie1588 View Post

#1 also frustrates me. Its probably my only real problem with the TV. I also thought plasmas were superior with motion. This effect is called judder. This only happens with 30fps games though. I wish more games were 60fps. I think the plasma is simply showing what it is receiving.
I hear LCDs do not have this issue. How does plasma have better motion handling than LCD with this issue? Never understood it. I hear judder is a problem with all plasmas so I am not sure.

if this truly is how the panel is handling movement and isnt a defect, then im sorry, there is no way in hell plasmas handle motion better than LCD. i have seen todays LCDs in action. motion blur is almost completely eliminated thanks to much improved refresh rates and there is no hint of this "rainbow color triple image" crap that i am getting from my plasma.

im afraid im going to have to return this TV if i will have to see this in every game i play.... as i use my TV for about 60% gaming 40% movies. maybe i should try swapping it out for a different ST50 first? what do you guys think?
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post #9 of 20 Old 11-04-2012, 01:18 AM - Thread Starter
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here is a video i posted on youtube of the issue:

set the player to 720P and you should be able to see what im talking about. vid isnt the best resolution because i took it with my iphone, but if you just watch the scene, you can clearly see bright yellows and blues pop up as i move the camera, especially at the 8-12 second mark.... this is from the white areas on the trees and the snow. like i said, the colors and such are most noticeable on white, or near white objects when moving the camera quickly. honestly it doesnt even have to be that quickly, as you can still see the colors pop out when i pan the camera relatively slowly.
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post #10 of 20 Old 11-04-2012, 01:51 AM
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What you are seeing is 30fps judder. From what i understand even lcds show this kind of judder but due to lcds having slight bit of inherent motion blur (even the fastest of lcds will still have some sort of blur due to its nature) it masks the problem where as a plasma is displaying the image as it is. Since the source is 30fps being fed to a 60hz tv that is the side effect. Try playing games that run at native 60fps, games such as nba 2k13, rage, and some others that i can remember right now and you will see how fluid it is. It really cant get any smoother its super crisp with no loss of detail from motion blur neither is judder present with 60fps games. I find good lcds do handle 30fps judder better but it might come with other problems. Sticking to the topic of motion problems. I have yet to witness a lcd tv that was fast enough to handle 60fps games with out motion blur. I own a lcd monitor the asus vh236h (aka evo monitor) which is suppose to be one of the fastest lcd monitors and I have played nba 2k13 on it and compared to my st50 there is noticeable motion blur. Now it isnt that bad and isnt too bothersome to the point its game breaking or anything but still compared to the plasma the plasma wins with 60fps games. I have seen other lcds which can be game breaking, to me atleast, in terms of motion blur with games like nba 2k13 in fact some are down right horrible. More modern lcds especially the more expensive ones are better obviously. Also some use motion interpolation to smooth out things and it really works but keep in mind it may add input lag.

So in my experience, 30fps games generally lcds handle better (thanks to inherent blur or motion interpolation) while 60fps games plasma is definitely better. There are more 30fps games on console at the moment so we can only hope next gen brings 60fps as the standard. Honestly if the st50 handled 30fps games like it did 60fps games we would have the ultimate gaming set on our hands unfortunately nothing is perfect. I have been contemplating returning the st50 for a lcd but i just dont know if i can live with knowing my plasma that i use to own, which most likely was cheaper also, was better at everything over my lcd other then 30fps games.
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post #11 of 20 Old 11-04-2012, 02:00 AM
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Also i havent yet noticed any rainbow effect. I will try out ac3 and see if i see the same thing you are seeing in that video you posted with the yellow trails. So far i havent noticed anything like that but im still early in the game havent made it to any woods yet so when i do ill look out for that effect and let you know. Regarding your buzz and uniformity issues i would definitely call panasonic and report the problems and see if they can send out a tech to assess and repair the problems or i would look into a exchange. My st50 isnt 100% uniform on a dark gray slide if you divide the screen into 3 portions the left third and the right thirds are a bit lighter then the middle but it isnt a problem with normal content only on a dark gray slide so i dont sweat it much. The pink tint doesnt sound normal you should get it checked out.
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post #12 of 20 Old 11-04-2012, 02:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smith987 View Post

Also i havent yet noticed any rainbow effect. I will try out ac3 and see if i see the same thing you are seeing in that video you posted with the yellow trails. So far i havent noticed anything like that but im still early in the game havent made it to any woods yet so when i do ill look out for that effect and let you know. Regarding your buzz and uniformity issues i would definitely call panasonic and report the problems and see if they can send out a tech to assess and repair the problems or i would look into a exchange. My st50 isnt 100% uniform on a dark gray slide if you divide the screen into 3 portions the left third and the right thirds are a bit lighter then the middle but it isnt a problem with normal content only on a dark gray slide so i dont sweat it much. The pink tint doesnt sound normal you should get it checked out.

you see the yellow and blue trails in the video though? the triple image stuff i can deal with... its the rainbow colors that really ruin it for me. you dont have to really be in any special area to notice it.... it happens on pretty much all games that i play (gears3, darksiders 2, AC3) in any scene where there is white, or a strong shine on something. move the camera even just a little bit and bam.... you will see what you see in that video.
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post #13 of 20 Old 11-04-2012, 03:28 AM
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you see the yellow and blue trails in the video though? the triple image stuff i can deal with... its the rainbow colors that really ruin it for me. you dont have to really be in any special area to notice it.... it happens on pretty much all games that i play (gears3, darksiders 2, AC3) in any scene where there is white, or a strong shine on something. move the camera even just a little bit and bam.... you will see what you see in that video.

No not at all... I havent noticed that kind effect at all..maybe your panel has a defect im not sure but i dont see that at all.. also what settings are you using for gaming.. i am using dnice settings..try using those settings
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post #14 of 20 Old 11-04-2012, 04:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smith987 View Post

No not at all... I havent noticed that kind effect at all..maybe your panel has a defect im not sure but i dont see that at all.. also what settings are you using for gaming.. i am using dnice settings..try using those settings

i wasnt asking if you see it on your set... i was asking if you see it in the video.
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post #15 of 20 Old 11-04-2012, 06:03 AM
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Yes I see the smeers of yellow and blue when you pan the camera I noticed it in your video... I haven't noticed that on my set
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post #16 of 20 Old 11-04-2012, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smith987 View Post

Yes I see the smeers of yellow and blue when you pan the camera I noticed it in your video... I haven't noticed that on my set

bah.... its got to be a faulty panel then... or something. i wouldnt think a setting would produce that effect. aside from that, i have gone through and shut off every setting that gives me the option. i guess ill be returning it to BB? too bad they are backordered on these now....
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post #17 of 20 Old 11-04-2012, 07:28 PM
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I definitely see the yellow/blue in your video. I definitely have the doubling/tripling of images, but I do not see yellow/blue smears on my set. I was playing AC3 earlier as well. I will keep an eye out though for it some more.
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post #18 of 20 Old 11-04-2012, 10:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Frankie1588 View Post

I definitely see the yellow/blue in your video. I definitely have the doubling/tripling of images, but I do not see yellow/blue smears on my set. I was playing AC3 earlier as well. I will keep an eye out though for it some more.

let me know what you find.... if you can post a video in the same sort of environment (trees with some snow) that would be awesome as well.
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post #19 of 20 Old 11-04-2012, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dameaus View Post

how does settings have anything to do with extremely poor motion processing?


--Advanced picture submenu

3D Y/C filter: Off [grayed out]
Color matrix: HD [grayed out]
Block NR: Off [grayed out]
Mosquito NR: Off
Motion smoother: Medium
Black level: Light
3:2 pulldown: off [greyed out]
24p Direct in: 60Hz [greyed out]

That setting can cause LOTS of motion blur! Most set it to "OFF"

Regards . . . Jim

------------------------------------------------------

GT30 "Custom" Settings: http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6392

GT30 "THX" Settings: http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6393
GT30 "Vivid" Settings: http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6402


 

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post #20 of 20 Old 11-05-2012, 01:45 AM - Thread Starter
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That setting can cause LOTS of motion blur! Most set it to "OFF"

on.... off......absolutely no difference. i wish it was that easy.
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