What's currently the best, money-no-issue, flat panel? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 37 Old 12-02-2012, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I was lucky enough to buy one of the last Pioneer Elite Pro-141s in the country back in 2009 and it has been nothing short of astonishing. Worthy of its reputation.

I haven't bought a 60" since but I'm considering another this month and I'd like to know which is considered the best. I've been to many of the usual retailers, even high end stores, and I've looked at everything but nothing seems to stack up. I've been told that manufacturers no longer believe that that market is viable, so I understand that there might still not be a true replacement for the 141, but I'm too ignorant of the current market to know whether that's true or not.

Can anyone advise? Is there an undisputed heavy weight of today's flat panel market? I guess I don't want to spend $10K, but I'd spend up to $7K if it competed with the 141.
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post #2 of 37 Old 12-02-2012, 11:57 PM
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The top Plasmas currently are as follows:
Panasonic VT50 and the Samsung e8000

There are no TVs that will match the Kuro blacks as of yet, but the newer TVs can match and sometimes beat them in other areas...As far as undisputed there is no such thing at this current time......If price wasnt an issue Id look at a FP with a nice screen....
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post #3 of 37 Old 12-03-2012, 12:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Spending only about 20 minutes checking out those sets it's obvious that the VT50 has an excellent reputation. I found less about the e8000 but what I saw was also very positive. Unless someone can trump the VT50 I may just go that route.
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post #4 of 37 Old 12-03-2012, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post

Spending only about 20 minutes checking out those sets it's obvious that the VT50 has an excellent reputation. I found less about the e8000 but what I saw was also very positive. Unless someone can trump the VT50 I may just go that route.

D-Nice said earlier this year that the VT50 would be the only acceptable replacement for his Kuros.

The VT50's black levels are comparable to that of the 9G Kuro. The Samsung PNE8000 doesn't come close. The VT50 killed it at the big Value Electronics HDTV Shootout earlier this year.

You may want to hold out for the new 2013 Panasonics - the insider is hinting that it will be even better . . . . .

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post #5 of 37 Old 12-03-2012, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post


You may want to hold out for the new 2013 Panasonics - the insider is hinting that it will be even better . . . . .

Interesting. Link?

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post #6 of 37 Old 12-03-2012, 08:32 AM
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Interesting. Link?

It's in the Panasonic Insider's Thread over at HDJ - we can't link it on AVS.

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post #7 of 37 Old 12-05-2012, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

It's in the Panasonic Insider's Thread over at HDJ - we can't link it on AVS.

Link to the HDJ thread?
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post #8 of 37 Old 12-05-2012, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by elambo View Post

Link to the HDJ thread?

Links to the High Def Junkies forum are blocked and the links won't work.

Just go directly to the HDJ Plasma forum - you can't miss the thread wink.gif

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post #9 of 37 Old 12-06-2012, 02:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

The VT50's black levels are comparable to that of the 9G Kuro. The Samsung PNE8000 doesn't come close. The VT50 killed it at the big Value Electronics HDTV Shootout earlier this year.
You may want to hold out for the new 2013 Panasonics - the insider is hinting that it will be even better . . . . .
Well, I'm hoping 2013 puts them on par with 9G at least (and if by some miracle they can match the 50" 9.5G panels, all the better).
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post #10 of 37 Old 12-06-2012, 10:44 AM
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Having owned a 60st50 and 60e7000 I'm very happy with the e7000. The st50 only excels at blu ray, HD cable looked terrible.

The Panasonic's image on anything less then blu ray was super soft and hardly HD. The Samsung dominates the Panasonic with all around viewing.

I expect the Panasonic lovers will come and flame me anytime now, but its not my opinion its a fact the Samsung outpercorms the Panasonic easily across sources
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post #11 of 37 Old 12-06-2012, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by dacdd View Post

I expect the Panasonic lovers will come and flame me anytime now, but its not my opinion its a fact the Samsung outpercorms the Panasonic easily across sources

Link to said facts?
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post #12 of 37 Old 12-06-2012, 11:18 AM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

I have read that the Sharp Elite is, in some ways, even better than the VT50/E8000, but in other ways not. It is of course much more expensive.

I did a side-by-side comparison of the Samsung and Panasonic and preferred the Panasonic. The ISF calibrator I hired also expressed a preference for the Panasonic. But they're both good sets. I can say that my VT50 is in no way "super soft" for non-BD HD sources.

Steve
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post #13 of 37 Old 12-06-2012, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dacdd View Post

Having owned a 60st50 and 60e7000 I'm very happy with the e7000. The st50 only excels at blu ray, HD cable looked terrible.
The Panasonic's image on anything less then blu ray was super soft and hardly HD. The Samsung dominates the Panasonic with all around viewing.
I expect the Panasonic lovers will come and flame me anytime now, but its not my opinion its a fact the Samsung outpercorms the Panasonic easily across sources

I actually agree with this regarding the way the Samsung image looks on all content. Its something closer to CRT, a look that can't be measured with equipment. My tv viewing is primarily for Blu-ray, so black level wins top priority.

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post #14 of 37 Old 12-06-2012, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dacdd View Post

Having owned a 60st50 and 60e7000 I'm very happy with the e7000. The st50 only excels at blu ray, HD cable looked terrible.
The Panasonic's image on anything less then blu ray was super soft and hardly HD. The Samsung dominates the Panasonic with all around viewing.
I expect the Panasonic lovers will come and flame me anytime now, but its not my opinion its a fact the Samsung outpercorms the Panasonic easily across

sources[/quote



+1 Samsung's picture does out perform the Panasonic across the board. I think Samsung has a much sharper and crisp picture.
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post #15 of 37 Old 12-06-2012, 06:11 PM
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Let me preface my reply by saying, I'm not a professional home theater guru, but I am a cable technician for Comcast and I work almost exclusively in high-end homes in Longboat Key, Florida.

I landed on my purchase of the PN51E8000 from my personal experiences with the high-end Plasma sets I've seen in customers houses. I've never had customers complain about their picture quality on any source, beit our HD boxes, a Bluray player, or whatever on the Samsung sets. Different story with the Panasonic sets though. Using their feedback and my own eyes, I landed on the E8000. The picture quality is incredible. I've been entranced by some of the HD movies after setting up our HD box on a couple of these sets. Assuming my break in continues smoothly and the IR ceases being an annoyance I'll be extremely happy with my purchase. It buzzed for the first few weeks, I can't hear it buzz anymore on any input or picture setting now. I recommend the Samsung.
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post #16 of 37 Old 12-06-2012, 06:18 PM
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That's what I meant.

The Samsung handles every source superbly with a very sharp and clear picture while the Panasonic too me just looks out of focus compared to it.

Is the st50/gt50/vt50 better for viewing blurays in a dark room? YES

but I stream I watch HD cable I game and I watch blurays and for my purposes the.Samsung is the clear winner.


The black levels on Panasonic are better, undeniable. But were talking like .004 vs .002 that's really not a dramatic difference I felt besides black levels in a dark room the Samsung performed better everywhere else.
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post #17 of 37 Old 12-06-2012, 06:58 PM
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The fact is that at the VE Shootout earlier this year, the VT50 soundly beat the PNE8000, and not just on black levels but other good stuff like contrast and panel brightness. I believe the only category that the Samsung won was color accuracy, but all the other categories went to the Panasonic.

Your opinion is shared by many, but you cannot call it a fact.

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post #18 of 37 Old 12-06-2012, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dacdd View Post

Having owned a 60st50 and 60e7000 I'm very happy with the e7000. The st50 only excels at blu ray, HD cable looked terrible.
The Panasonic's image on anything less then blu ray was super soft and hardly HD. The Samsung dominates the Panasonic with all around viewing.
I expect the Panasonic lovers will come and flame me anytime now, but its not my opinion its a fact the Samsung outpercorms the Panasonic easily across sources

LOL. My lady is watching X Factor right now and it looks incredible. It's so crisp you can see a chicken wing peeking out of the side of Britney's mouth.
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post #19 of 37 Old 12-06-2012, 07:11 PM
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I can call it FACT that the sasmung is crisper sharper and clearer because I had both and its blatanly obvious
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post #20 of 37 Old 12-06-2012, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by dacdd View Post

I can call it FACT that the sasmung is crisper sharper and clearer because I had both and its blatanly obvious

Oh ok, do you think it's too late for the garbage man to drop by and pick up this crappy 65" VT50? Hopefully the Wal-Mart is still open, maybe I can get there and grab that Samsung before it closes. Thanks.
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post #21 of 37 Old 12-06-2012, 07:54 PM
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I can call it FACT that the sasmung is crisper sharper and clearer because I had both and its blatanly obvious

I think what you are stating is your opinion. I was hooked and almost purchased the Panasonic VT50, it was my wife who said

the Sammy e8000 had more detailed and sharper image.

The people here want facts, or measurements to back up your opinion.

From what I have seen so far, I agree with your statement.

I felt the Panny was out of focus, not a lot but enough for me to go for the Sammy.

In my opinion blacks are superior on the Panny.

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post #22 of 37 Old 12-06-2012, 08:20 PM
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That's what I'm saying, it is sharper, there's no type of meter that will prove that though.
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post #23 of 37 Old 12-06-2012, 08:36 PM
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That's what I'm saying, it is sharper, there's no type of meter that will prove that though.

Correct, but as mentioned above, reviewers at CNet, thewirecutter, consumer reports, etc...who have extensively tested these against each other in a home environment have rated this year's crop of Pannys higher across the board.

However, color accuracy and the handling of noisy signal are 2 things reviewers have consistently cited Samsung with the edge for — the latter potentially being a reason the Panny didn't look as sharp.
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post #24 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 02:59 AM
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Samsungs might look better with lower quality sources, but Panasonics look better with high quality sources. They're both good, but since my primary concern is Blu-Ray, Panasonic wins for me. Deeper blacks, better contrast, and a better filter on the VT than the E/78K is what won me over. If you're looking for the ultimate in black level, the Sharp PRO-X5FD and 65" Sony HX950 are also worth a look, altough if you're already accustomed to the "look" of a plasma, I doubt you'll be satisfied with an LCD.

Hasn't it been determined that Samsungs look sharper because they employ non-defeatable edge enhancement in their plasmas? I think, at least, that was the case for their 2011 sets. Have not kept up to be sure it's been carried over to their 2012 models, though.

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post #25 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 08:21 AM
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and another thread dives into the Panasonic vs Samsung debate.....a shame really, it started off so well....
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post #26 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 05:29 PM
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No sharp Elite? Is it over $7000? Id say Sharp Elite and VT50 but the GT and ST are close.
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post #27 of 37 Old 12-07-2012, 06:06 PM
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No sharp Elite? Is it over $7000? Id say Sharp Elite and VT50 but the GT and ST are close.

See post #12

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post #28 of 37 Old 12-09-2012, 10:27 AM
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Having owned a 60st50 and 60e7000 I'm very happy with the e7000. The st50 only excels at blu ray, HD cable looked terrible.

HD cable is usually poor quality and in some towns/cities it does look downright terrible. It looks terrible on my friend's PND7000, but i know it's not the TV (which looks very good otherwise), it's his crappy cable source (TWC in West Los Angeles). My SIL lives in the same area and it looks pretty much equally terrible on her Panasonic S2. My particular TWC provider actually has much better-than-average picture quality and the local broadcast channels are only slightly worse than OTA, and my GT50 handles it just fine.

Quote:
The Panasonic's image on anything less then blu ray was super soft and hardly HD. The Samsung dominates the Panasonic with all around viewing.

Dominates? That can't possibly be true. There must have been something wrong with your sources, or with the TV, or with your settings then because HD on my GT50 does not look "super soft" or "hardly HD". It's crisp and clear and pops much better than my bud's D7000, mostly because the GT50 is brighter and has a superior black level and contrast ratio. It's obviously HD and it looks great. There has to be a reason why the Panasonic beat the Samsung in the big VE HDTV Shootout - that wouldn't have happened if the Samsung were truly dominant as you claim.

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I expect the Panasonic lovers will come and flame me anytime now, but its not my opinion its a fact the Samsung outperforms the Panasonic easily across sources

Dude, nobody is going to flame you for your opinion as your opinion is shared by many people here - especially the Samsung owners, but when you start proclaiming that "the Samsung outperforms the Panasonic easily across sources" and saying it's a FACT then people are going to call you out on it. And your comment about "Panasonic lovers" has an adversarial tone to it.

Quote:
The Samsung handles every source superbly with a very sharp and clear picture while the Panasonic too me just looks out of focus compared to it.

And to other people the Panasonic looks just as sharp and clear as the Samsung - especially on 1080i and 1080p content. You don't share their opinion, and they don't share your opinion. Whats' the big deal? I don't think anyone will argue that the Samsung handles poorer sources better than the Panasonic does. But you can't say the Samsung handles every source better than the Panasonic because that's just not true - especially considering that sharpness is only one of many aspects of overall picture quality.

Quote:
Is the st50/gt50/vt50 better for viewing blurays in a dark room? YES. but I stream I watch HD cable I game and I watch blurays and for my purposes the Samsung is the clear winner.

But what is a winner for YOUR purposes is not necessarily a winner for other people's purposes. The OP is looking for something comparable to his 9G Kuro, and the Panasonics fit that bill way moreso than the Samsungs do.

Quote:
The black levels on Panasonic are better, undeniable. But were talking like .004 vs .002 that's really not a dramatic difference I felt besides black levels in a dark room the Samsung performed better everywhere else.

The black level (and contrast ratio) difference between the 2012 Samsungs and 2012 Panasonics is profound when comparing them side by side and these are two very important attributes when determining picture quality. I can't understand why you'd minimize this yet focus on overall sharpness and proclaim the Samsung dominant.

Quote:
I can call it FACT that the samsung is crisper sharper and clearer because I had both and its blatanly obvious

Well if you're talking just about this then yes i would say that plenty of Panasonic owners/lovers would probably agree with you when it comes to anything less than 1080p Blu-Ray content. HD programming (especially on the 720p channels) and even regular DVDs do look crisper and sharper on the Samsungs this year and i actually prefer a sharper/crisper image, but to me (and many other people here including some Samsung owners) that extra sharpness/crispness looks overly sharpened and somewhat un-natural, further hindered by excessive edge enhancement (which i believe is undefeatable on the Sammy). My GT50 does look relatively softer on low quality content and on some 720p content but on 1080i HD programming it looks plenty sharp and is very natural looking.

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post #29 of 37 Old 12-09-2012, 03:59 PM
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and another thread dives into the Panasonic vs Samsung debate.....a shame really, it started off so well....

I am very new here and I am already sick of all the Panasonic vs Samsung "trash" talk..

That being said... I have a new 65VT50 that I LOVE. It does seem to suffer the out of focus syndrome occasionally. It seems to be getting better with break in though, I dont notice on as many channels. It also seems to be more on flesh tones, often faces will look out of focus but everything else is very sharp and crisp. I think some of this may be settings, sound reasonable? My source is DirecTv. I need to buy a new AVR and have read that better signal processing will clean this up. What AVR's have to best quality SP's, I would like to keep the AVR under 1k.

Any help is appreciated.

Thank you.
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post #30 of 37 Old 12-09-2012, 04:38 PM
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and another thread dives into the Panasonic vs Samsung debate.....a shame really, it started off so well....

Hah and not only that, earlier today dacdd sent me a PM calling me a "FAG" and said "your gay" rolleyes.gif

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TC-P55ST60, TC-P50GT50, TC-P46G10, TH-42PZ700U, TH-42PX50U, HP LC2600N, TiVo Series3, TWC Cisco 8742HDC DVR, Onkyo TX-SR333, URC R40 Remote.
Pic of My A/V setup - http://cdn.avsforum.com/f/f1/900x900..._Img_4867.jpeg
Gallery - http://www.avsforum.com/g/a/2082686/randywalter...
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