VT50 yellow-ish blob on display - Page 28 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #811 of 999 Old 01-09-2014, 11:05 AM
Senior Member
 
Todd68's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by scirica View Post

Update on my "blob journey". I got a call today from the tech that will be coming out to apply the Panasonic-prescribed "fix" to the yellow blob issue (tomorrow morning). As many of you know, that consists of changing the VSUS from Low to High, and then increasing the Blue Drive. I discussed this approach with the technician and asked the following:

Q: Have you done this service on any other Panasonic plasma panels?
A: No I haven't, but it looks pretty straightforward.

Q: My panel has been professionally calibrated. Won't the increase in blue drive have a direct effect on my grayscale and change the overall picture off my calibration specs?
A: Not sure. I suppose, but I don't know anything about calibrating TV's. In fact, when I go into Best Buy and they show me two sets, one calibrated and one not, I always pick the uncalibrated one as the better picture.

Q: If we determine that we the Panasonic fix is unacceptable, can you return it to how it was before your changes?
A: I can return it to factory specs and you will have to recalibrate it.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm a little scared to have this particular technician working on my set and then ultimately communicating back to Panasonic on the results. I'd love to get your thoughts.

I wouldn't let this guy touch my TV, I would explain the standard outcome for this panel defect is a replacement part # TC-P""VT60-EX (exchange TV) and screwing up the white balance is an unacceptable halfed a'** band-aid attempt that I am not dumb enough to accept, especially since I paid good money for a calibration!

Call Panasonic and complain, explain that you know others with the same defect and the final outcome, also explain this to the lost "serviceman" Well thats what I would of done, I have a low threshold for dealing with BS.

Good luck and hope you have a VT60 replacement in your future.
Donat76 likes this.
Todd68 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #812 of 999 Old 01-09-2014, 11:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
scirica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Dallas, TX1
Posts: 1,667
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post

I wouldn't let this guy touch my TV, I would explain the standard outcome for this panel defect is a replacement part # TC-P""VT60-EX (exchange TV) and screwing up the white balance is an unacceptable halfed a'** band-aid attempt that I am not dumb enough to accept, especially since I paid good money for a calibration!

Call Panasonic and complain, explain that you know others with the same defect and the final outcome, also explain this to the lost "serviceman" Well thats what I would of done, I have a low threshold for dealing with BS.

Good luck and hope you have a VT60 replacement in your future.

Thanks Todd. I think I will call the Panasonic service hot line and just air my concerns prior to the arrival of the service technician. I think all this will do is force me to play with my set all weekend to get my calibration re-set (with ControlCal of course)

Update: Talked to the Panasonic hotline (great people there) and was told that if I am not satisfied with the "fix", I need to let my technician know this and he has to report back this back to Panasonic customer service for next steps. Sounds like I have to let him mess up my set as step 1 in the process before I can go the replacement route. I just wish this tech sounded a little more well-versed in accurate calibration. I might have to convince him that the result is bad, or maybe all I have to do is tell him I'm not satisfied with the fix and to contact Panasonic and let them know.

McIntosh MX121. McIntosh MC205. Focal Aria 948 Main Speakers, Aria CC900 Center. Focal Electra IC 1002 In-Ceiling Surrounds. Paradigm Studio Sub 15. Oppo BDP-105D. Roku XS. Roku 3. Apple TV(3). DirecTV. Panasonic TC-P65VT50. Samsung UN40FH6030F, URC MX-780.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
scirica is offline  
post #813 of 999 Old 01-09-2014, 12:01 PM
Senior Member
 
Todd68's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
I know I would, you have the benefit of knowing the outcome of other cases, thanks to this thread. Others may not know this and accepted this "fix" . The VT60 is a real nice upgrade also, I didn't think the blacks would be this much better and even the clarity is better out of the box. I guess it has a less aggressive or different filter that seems perfect for light controllable rooms.
Todd68 is offline  
post #814 of 999 Old 01-09-2014, 12:08 PM
Senior Member
 
Todd68's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by scirica View Post

Thanks Todd. I think I will call the Panasonic service hot line and just air my concerns prior to the arrival of the service technician. I think all this will do is force me to play with my set all weekend to get my calibration re-set (with ControlCal of course)

Update: Talked to the Panasonic hotline (great people there) and was told that if I am not satisfied with the "fix", I need to let my technician know this and he has to report back this back to Panasonic customer service for next steps. Sounds like I have to let him mess up my set as step 1 in the process before I can go the replacement route. I just wish this tech sounded a little more well-versed in accurate calibration. I might have to convince him that the result is bad, or maybe all I have to do is tell him I'm not satisfied with the fix and to contact Panasonic and let them know.

Good news, but be prepared for possible more longish waiting for a replacement , or maybe you can talk them into a refund to go buy your own replacement.
Todd68 is offline  
post #815 of 999 Old 01-09-2014, 12:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bull3964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 60
For someone who hasn't had their display professionally calibrated (and on the lower model ST50) will changing the blue drive like that throw the set off enough that the whites couldn't be corrected enough with the regular picture settings to be as close as they were before?

By the same token, if someone were to have their set professionally calibrated after this adjustment, would it be possible to to adjust the white levels back to correct levels?

I'm just trying to assess the extent of the blue drive changes. If it is a long term way to get the yellow blobs to disappear and I can get my set looking like I like it was before the change without any odd artifacts, i don't really have that big of a problem doing something like this since I'm out of factory warranty.

Basically, is the cover-up preventing the tv from being as accurate as before if it was recalibrated or is it simply shifting the baseline so as to require a new calibration but can otherwise be restored to the same level of accuracy as before?
bull3964 is offline  
post #816 of 999 Old 01-09-2014, 01:15 PM
Senior Member
 
Todd68's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
I don't know for sure, but I would think that if you readjust the white balance back to where its accurate then the "blue push fix " would be erased, returning the yellow blobs more noticable?
Todd68 is offline  
post #817 of 999 Old 01-09-2014, 01:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mo949's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 425
or, even if you could readjust white back to white, would the way the panel ages make it so the cause of the yellow blobs catches up to the blue drive gain, therefore making the 'fix' temporary in nature?
mo949 is offline  
post #818 of 999 Old 01-09-2014, 01:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
scirica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Dallas, TX1
Posts: 1,667
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post

I don't know for sure, but I would think that if you readjust the white balance back to where its accurate then the "blue push fix " would be erased, returning the yellow blobs more noticable?

Exactly!

McIntosh MX121. McIntosh MC205. Focal Aria 948 Main Speakers, Aria CC900 Center. Focal Electra IC 1002 In-Ceiling Surrounds. Paradigm Studio Sub 15. Oppo BDP-105D. Roku XS. Roku 3. Apple TV(3). DirecTV. Panasonic TC-P65VT50. Samsung UN40FH6030F, URC MX-780.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
scirica is offline  
post #819 of 999 Old 01-09-2014, 02:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bull3964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 60
I guess that's the question, what does changing the blue drive accomplish in the service menu that you couldn't do with the normal white balance controls under the normal settings of the TV? Is it simply a larger knob to turn in comparison to those settings or are they actually accomplishing different things that have the same visual effect?

We know the core of the problem is voltage, that much is certain. The sustain voltage on blue for those areas of the panel is insufficient for proper discharge so the color intensity is thrown off, but that's only the case under certain types of picture conditions. The brightness of a cell is determined by the pulse modulation of the current being applied to it since a pixel is pretty much on or off and relies on rapid switching of varying rates to trick the eye into seeing different brightness of that cell.

I would assume the white balance in the normal picture settings would largely affect that modulation rate. Doing a blue push there increases the frequency of the pulses for the blue pixels which increases the overall blue level of the TV.

The question is, do the drive settings do the same thing, or are those settings affecting peak sustain voltage? Higher peak voltage would cause a pixel to be brighter as well, which would account for the blue push after the drive value is changed. However, adjusting the white balance in the picture settings would then reduce the modulation rate while keeping the higher peak voltage. The blue is still brighter when voltage is being applied, but the pixel is on for less time so you can reign the level of blue and restore the white balance (as long as things aren't pushed too far in the drive settings).

This is all guesswork on my end admittedly, I'm just trying to figure out what's going on from what I'm seeing.

Also, some of this tracks with some of the experimenting I've been doing. If I set the TV to Vivd and 100 brightness and 100 contrast, the yellow is still there. But only at first. If I run the WOW pixel flipper for any length of time at these settings, the yellow disappears. If I then switch back to custom, the yellow remains gone for a few minutes before slowing showing up again and growing in intensity. My guess about what's going on here is the high picture levels under vivid cause a residual charge to build up in the cells that allows the affected areas to reach proper discharge voltage for a little while after the settings are switched back. After this 'boost' voltage drains off, the yellow returns. Heat can't be a factor at this point as the set is on for hours and is likely hotter while running under vivid. Heat was likely the cause of the uneven aging, but I'm not sure if heat has all that much influence on the yellow splotches once they show up.

If the core issue truly is the lack of proper peak voltage to excite the blue phosphors correctly, I don't know that simply increasing the modulation rate of the blue cells (increasing their intensity), like you would in the normal color settings, would actually have much of an impact on the yellow areas until you reached a point where they retained enough residual charge from a previous cycle to sustain a proper discharge. I may try this a bit later. If what I think is going on is correct, simply increasing the level of blue in the set through picture settings will likely not make much of a difference on the appearance of yellow on grey backgrounds.
bull3964 is offline  
post #820 of 999 Old 01-09-2014, 04:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
chunon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wilmington Ohio
Posts: 5,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 196 Post(s)
Liked: 501
The service menu blue drive does nothing different than the custom blue drive, the steps may be less coarse in the service menu but that is the only difference. IMO it is a visual band aid nothing more

65VT60
55ST60
Sony BDV-F7 3dbluray/soundbar
Calman Enthusiast
Dish Network with Hopper/Super Joey
chunon is online now  
post #821 of 999 Old 01-09-2014, 05:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bull3964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 60
I suppose it's all moot anyways as VSUS HIGH and +15 on BDRV had no real discernable impact on my yellow blobs.
bull3964 is offline  
post #822 of 999 Old 01-10-2014, 01:59 AM
Member
 
Crudesinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I am one of the unlucky outside USA owners with restricted professional modes with low panel brightness only. Therefore I now do my calibration of the THX cinema in the service menu. When I started the picture was very yellow/green looking. I have ended up lowering green drives and increasing blue drives. I have taken plenty of green out of the cuts. In the service menu the red drive is the one that is capped and so is the constant to work around. I wonder if panasonic are interpreting this issue properly. I agree the out of the box service menu cinema warm is pretty yellow looking and really does need some more blue as I have found with a meter. 15 clicks does seem excessive though compared to what I adjusted.

The thing is you can change blue drive for cool,normal and warm in the serve menu. Which one are they changing? All of them? I have calibrated cinema warm only which affects THX cinema,Bright room, cinema and the pro 1,2. I have measured these modes before and after to check.

So in my case I have increased VSUS and changed service menu drives. My yellow blob issue is looking very controlled in the THX modes I watch. I can still see some yellow blob evidence on the normal preset but not THX.Strange.Normal is driven differently. I avoid this one anyway as it is too noisy in the dark shades.

Therefore its also worth checking which modes you use.
Crudesinger is offline  
post #823 of 999 Old 01-10-2014, 03:34 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wetumpka, AL
Posts: 15,381
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked: 192
Crudesigner,

How are you getting into the service menu? Controcal?

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
JimP is online now  
post #824 of 999 Old 01-10-2014, 04:40 AM
Member
 
Crudesinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Crudesigner,

How are you getting into the service menu? Controcal?
I just use the old trick of push volume down button on the tv and hold it while you hit info x3 on the remote. This has been posted a few time now by others so as usual people please be careful if you go in.

Everything I do is manual adjustment and without any of the cool tools like control cal. I am using calman 5 with the AVS disc to calibrate. You have to go out of service menu after a change to measure as the readings change.

I have not seen any other forms of blue drive in there other than the white balance ones I adjust. If anyone gets the serviceman change the blue drive it would be interesting if they are adjusting in the white balance menu or somewhere else.
Crudesinger is offline  
post #825 of 999 Old 01-10-2014, 08:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
scirica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Dallas, TX1
Posts: 1,667
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 100
Service Technician just left my house after attempting to apply the "Panasonic Service Bulletin Fix"...

First off, they guy they sent out was great to work with and my first goal was to establish some rapport with him so that he might see things my way. wink.gif We spent a little time looking at white slides and some content that clearly shows the blobs in all their glory so that he knew what we were looking at. He had no problem zeroing in on the blobs and so we got started...

His process was to go into the Service Menu and change the VSUS from Low to High, and then just as others have said he went to the B Drive values and kept increasing them in an attempt to make the blobs disappear. While the blobs started to disappear, or more accurately blend in with the surrounding panel, he was quick to say that he still sees them even on the highest. B Drive setting. At the highest setting he commented that the blobs are better, but now you have a blue picture! This was a relief! He left the VSUS on High, but returned the B Drive value to it's former setting (6F on my panel).

Without my prompting, he said the next step is to order a replacement panel, and explained that it may be a VT60 or another comparable panel, and of course the last resort would be a full refund.

All this was completed with the TV still wall-mounted, so at the end of the day I've jumped through this critical hoop and onto the next step. My VT50 is no worse for wear, and I'll just wait to hear from the technician.

While this has been a long process, so far things are moving as expected. Glad I didn't give up and just live with my blobs.

McIntosh MX121. McIntosh MC205. Focal Aria 948 Main Speakers, Aria CC900 Center. Focal Electra IC 1002 In-Ceiling Surrounds. Paradigm Studio Sub 15. Oppo BDP-105D. Roku XS. Roku 3. Apple TV(3). DirecTV. Panasonic TC-P65VT50. Samsung UN40FH6030F, URC MX-780.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
scirica is offline  
post #826 of 999 Old 01-10-2014, 09:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bull3964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Good, I hope my tech visit will go similarly when I get it setup. Really, all I need at this point is a written estimate saying that the panel needs replaced and how much it will cost to do that to get my claim processed with American Express.

The big thing I'm debating at this point is if I should just go ahead and buy another TV right now. It all comes down to whether or not I think I can live with the blobs IF my warranty claim gets denied for some reason. If I'm going to replace the TV no matter what, I might as well just do it without waiting for the end of the claim process.
bull3964 is offline  
post #827 of 999 Old 01-13-2014, 07:20 AM
Member
 
copene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 62
I think it's pretty safe to say that the VT60's are going to have the same yellow blob issues. I've got one that is a month old, slides ran and D-Nice's settings and I'm noticing that on predominantly white commercials there is the "yellow haze" all through the MIDDLE of the panel. Basically reciprocating the VT50 blobs and having nice whites down the sides of the panel and eight beers later throughout the center. Good for Panasonic, bravo on yet another genius release. I look forward to reading the news of them boarding up the head office in Japan and jumping off a cliff, which of course, is the honorable thing to do...

Panasonic's decision makers in the last few years = *facepalm
copene is offline  
post #828 of 999 Old 01-13-2014, 08:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bull3964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Well, strike 1 for Panasonic. The repair place they told me to call doesn't service my area. I would have to carry the TV in which is a near impossibility as I have no way to transport it and the place is only open 9-5 Mon-Friday.

Since all I need is a repair estimate, I might just have Geek Squad come out and give it to me at this point.
bull3964 is offline  
post #829 of 999 Old 01-13-2014, 09:46 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wetumpka, AL
Posts: 15,381
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by copene View Post

I think it's pretty safe to say that the VT60's are going to have the same yellow blob issues. I've got one that is a month old, slides ran and D-Nice's settings and I'm noticing that on predominantly white commercials there is the "yellow haze" all through the MIDDLE of the panel. Basically reciprocating the VT50 blobs and having nice whites down the sides of the panel and eight beers later throughout the center. Good for Panasonic, bravo on yet another genius release. I look forward to reading the news of them boarding up the head office in Japan and jumping off a cliff, which of course, is the honorable thing to do...

Panasonic's decision makers in the last few years = *facepalm


How does it look without the beers. smile.gif
scirica likes this.

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
JimP is online now  
post #830 of 999 Old 01-14-2014, 07:48 AM
Newbie
 
tetsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

After reading most of this thread I decided to register to let you know my green blob adventures. I own the 55VT50 for about 18 months now, before this VT50 I owned the VT30, but because of green blobs this VT30 had been replaced by a new VT30 three times before I got my money back. All those VT30's had green blobs somewhere on the screen. Hoping a new model would solve the problems I went for the VT50. The VT50 in the beginning was much better than the VT30's, no blobs, just a little banding on the right side of the screen but I could live with that. But now after 18 months it shows the green blobs on the upper left- and right side of the screen. I called tech support and they asked me to take photo's and mail those. I mailed the photo's and got a call back from a rep saying my set would be repaired. Yesterday my VT50 was picked up for repair and the guy picking it up said Panasonic has sent them a new panel and it will be swapped for my green blob panel. He told me that if they had any VT60's they would have replaced the VT50 with a VT60, but Panasonic in Europe is completely out of stock for the VT60 and they go for replacing the panel instead because new VT60 are not manufactured anymore. So now fingers crossed that swapping the panel fixes the issues and that it will not show blobs again after a year.

tetsu is offline  
post #831 of 999 Old 01-14-2014, 08:42 AM
Member
 
copene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

How does it look without the beers. smile.gif

you mean if the screen looked less peed on? LOL, it would be great!
copene is offline  
post #832 of 999 Old 01-14-2014, 09:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bull3964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsu View Post

So now fingers crossed that swapping the panel fixes the issues and that it will not show blobs again after a year.

Not stamp on your hope, but I don't put a very high probability of the issue not recurring due to the nature of the problem (in fact, we have see others in the thread with it recurring.) It's flat out a design defect. There is inadequate thermal management in the TV which leads to hot spots in the panel which leads to uneven wear. Now, some panels may be more susceptible to the heat damage than others and usage patterns (settings, content viewed) may have some influence on the intensity of the hot spots. However, I think given a long enough timeline, nearly all of the 50 series TVs are going to exhibit this issue to some degree. Whether or not it will be noticeable to all is another story, but it will likely show up in some form.

Panasonic was obviously aware of the issue due to the fact that they added heat sinks and changed the fan design on the 60 series of TV. A proper fix for a 50 series TV is not simply a panel swap. A proper fix would be a panel swap coupled with installation of heatsinks on the scan boards, installation of a thermal barrier under the scan boards, and replacement of fans with a higher CFM model. A panel swap is a delay tactic to get the TV out of warranty (much like the VSUS and BDRV service menu changes.)

In reality, Panasonic should be doing a service campaign on all 50 series TVs sold to beef up thermal management (heatsinks, thermal barrier, fans) as a preemptive measure to prevent further damage as well as covering panel replacement for all affected by the issue regardless of warranty status, but that will never happen now. Panasonic is in too deep of financial trouble and they are exiting plasma production so they no longer care about their reputation in this space.

This isn't a case of a batch of faulty components. It's a case of bad engineering and incomplete testing that combines to release a product with a fatal flaw. What's pushing me away from getting a VT60 as a replacement for my ST50 is how Panasonic is handling this. They seem less interested in making it right with the customer and more interested in getting TVs out of warranty so they don't have to fix them. The various complaints about fan noise for the 60 series indicates to me that the thermal fixes they put in place likely came at the end of the design phase for the new TVs as a reaction to the yellow blob problem which means that they may not be a good enough long term fix. I'm not willing to gamble twice on this with my own money. If I was getting a warranty replacement, I would have nothing to lose. However, since I'm forced to buy a new TV because of this, I'm going to have to leave Panasonic behind.
bull3964 is offline  
post #833 of 999 Old 01-14-2014, 11:12 AM
Newbie
 
tetsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post


Panasonic was obviously aware of the issue due to the fact that they added heat sinks and changed the fan design on the 60 series of TV. A proper fix for a 50 series TV is not simply a panel swap. A proper fix would be a panel swap coupled with installation of heatsinks on the scan boards, installation of a thermal barrier under the scan boards, and replacement of fans with a higher CFM model. A panel swap is a delay tactic to get the TV out of warranty (much like the VSUS and BDRV service menu changes.)

 

As an electronics engineer I will do those improvements myself when the replacement panel is ok. The warranty is gone in 5 months anyway, so I will put some proper heat insulation between all boards and the panel. Green blobs show not only in front of the scanboards but also in front of the heatsink from the cpu board. I will also try to improve the airflow, but this will not be an easy job, maybe channeling the air better, different more high airflow fans or the addition of extra fans will do the job.

tetsu is offline  
post #834 of 999 Old 01-14-2014, 11:31 AM
Senior Member
 
Todd68's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by copene View Post

I think it's pretty safe to say that the VT60's are going to have the same yellow blob issues. I've got one that is a month old, slides ran and D-Nice's settings and I'm noticing that on predominantly white commercials there is the "yellow haze" all through the MIDDLE of the panel. Basically reciprocating the VT50 blobs and having nice whites down the sides of the panel and eight beers later throughout the center. Good for Panasonic, bravo on yet another genius release. I look forward to reading the news of them boarding up the head office in Japan and jumping off a cliff, which of course, is the honorable thing to do...

Panasonic's decision makers in the last few years = *facepalm

Yea all too make the panel skinny and maybe make the ladies approve of the "looks" and thin looking like the crappy picture quality LCD tvs, while the men (at least in my case) would rather have a fat TV like my G20 that has sufficient cooling. My VT60 is rather warm at the same locations as my VT50 was, the blob areas. So I would think the blobs would show up at the same locations, if they do. Your yellow problem could be a panel defect unrelated to insufficient cooling.
Todd68 is offline  
post #835 of 999 Old 01-14-2014, 11:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
chunon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wilmington Ohio
Posts: 5,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 196 Post(s)
Liked: 501
We should know soon if the VT60s have the same issue, The yellow blobs showed up on my VT50 at about the 850 hour mark.

65VT60
55ST60
Sony BDV-F7 3dbluray/soundbar
Calman Enthusiast
Dish Network with Hopper/Super Joey
chunon is online now  
post #836 of 999 Old 01-14-2014, 11:52 AM
Senior Member
 
Todd68's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
I have a three year warranty through Mack, maybe the blobs will show up in a couple years and Panasonic will replace it with an Oled. biggrin.gif: If they aint bankrupt by then that is.


Edit: Wait a minute, that wont work rolleyes.gif It would be out of Panasonic's hands and up to Mack. Maybe they would replace it with an OLED. Seriously though, It would be wise that everyone who buys a VT60 gets an extended warranty!
Todd68 is offline  
post #837 of 999 Old 01-14-2014, 11:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bull3964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

We should know soon if the VT60s have the same issue, The yellow blobs showed up on my VT50 at about the 850 hour mark.

True, we do know that the beefed up cooling. So, it's possible they may not show up at all or be delayed.

Mine didn't show up on my ST50 until beyond the 2000 hour mark, so there seems to be some variance. I would love a heat map of the panel face under full load for both the 60 series and the 50 series to see how much of a reduction in temps in those areas we are seeing (as well as a comparison of several of the same models to see how much TV to TV variation we have.)

I think the appearance of mine was related to a voltage change in the whole set as part of the aging because it's not like they gradually appeared. One week, it was fine, the next week, they were there plain as day.

Part of me would like to believe that they fully evaluated the issue and came up with a comprehensive fix. However, the cynic in me says that they did what was necessary to get their final product out the door and keep the problem from showing up for longer than a year. We won't know for awhile yet.

What makes me the most upset about this whole thing is the service bulletin for changing the VSUS and the BDRV. Under no circumstances should this be considered a warranty fix. At least they seem to be responding to push back fairly well from people who are informed, but masking the issue can't be interpreted as anything other than a tactic to evade the warranty.
bull3964 is offline  
post #838 of 999 Old 01-14-2014, 12:00 PM
Member
 
merccrazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post

True, we do know that the beefed up cooling. So, it's possible they may not show up at all or be delayed.

Mine didn't show up on my ST50 until beyond the 2000 hour mark, so there seems to be some variance. I would love a heat map of the panel face under full load for both the 60 series and the 50 series to see how much of a reduction in temps in those areas we are seeing (as well as a comparison of several of the same models to see how much TV to TV variation we have.)

I think the appearance of mine was related to a voltage change in the whole set as part of the aging because it's not like they gradually appeared. One week, it was fine, the next week, they were there plain as day.

Part of me would like to believe that they fully evaluated the issue and came up with a comprehensive fix. However, the cynic in me says that they did what was necessary to get their final product out the door and keep the problem from showing up for longer than a year. We won't know for awhile yet.

My 65vt50 had blobs at 2500 hours and I recorded temps in front of the yellow blob areas at 117 degrees. With the about the same content I got 108 on my 65vt60. I then added four 120 mm fans and got the temp down to 96 degrees. I have some graphite insulating paper I need to install under the two hot boards one of these days when I get time. I am watching a darker movie right now and the hot spots measure 88 degrees. The set has been on for 7 hours. The house temp is 70.
merccrazy is offline  
post #839 of 999 Old 01-14-2014, 12:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bull3964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Well, it's encouraging to see that there's some reduction stock for stock. 9 degrees isn't exactly earth-shattering, but it may be enough to keep the panel from being damaged.

I admire your commitment to bring the temps down low through aftermarket cooling. That's way more hoops then I would want to jump through to ensure my $2k tv stayed working as advertised though. Blasphemy as it may be to say so in this forum, the picture quality isn't worth the hassle to me.
billmich likes this.
bull3964 is offline  
post #840 of 999 Old 01-14-2014, 12:40 PM
Member
 
merccrazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Well after throwing away about $600 plus dollars because I had two pro cals done on my vt50 I figured the extra work might save me some money since I already have one pro cal done on the vt60.
merccrazy is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

Tags
Panasonic Viera Tc P55vt50 , Panasonic Viera Tc P65vt50 65 Inch Plasma Tv
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off