CES: Panasonic Unveils 2013 TVs; New Smart TV Interface - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 516 Old 01-10-2013, 10:40 PM
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Dont believe THX for a second.

I mean after 100 hours this 50V10 THX certified display turned into a light grey un-certified THX display.
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post #272 of 516 Old 01-10-2013, 10:59 PM
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I feel your pain defdog99, I gave my G10 to my parents and bought a KRP-500M. The G10 after the THX color fix had nice, natural looking colors with light grey black levels.

As far as the ZT60 goes, people that have seen it in a dark room next to VT50 say it is noticeably blacker . The aged 65"VT50 at the Value Electronics had MLL of 0.002 ft/l so maybe the ZT60 can get in the 0.001 range.
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post #273 of 516 Old 01-10-2013, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

If Panasonic never produces a plasma set with blacks better than the best Kuro--was buying the Pioneer patents a waste of cash?

If Panasonic never can beat Kuro--wouldn't it--would have been better--for Samsung to have had the patents? Maybe they would have at least used them!

There were many trends going against them making a "Kuro killer". The trend to thinner, more power efficient panels. The downward price pressure. Many reasons why it would be an uphill battle to match Kuro at the prices Panasonic could command in the marketplace. I think they have done a pretty decent job with the plasma with what they have had to deal with. And as I said before, which may have been in the other Pana CES thread, just because they haven't made a "Kuro killer" doesn't mean they haven't used said patents. Furthermore, a lot of those patents may have become irrelevant with the thinner more energy efficient panels required today. Pioneer made a great panel, but they couldn't make the business work. Panasonic is making sets on par with the Elites, or better in certain aspects, and they are still in business. Samsung, really? The F8500 is the first promising panel to come out of Korea in some time.

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post #274 of 516 Old 01-10-2013, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Just operate under the assumption that 2013 (but hopefully stretch it to 2014!) could possibly be the last year they offer Plasma. The local furniture/AV store didn't even carry any 2012 models (and had a 2011 model on display for sale for almost the full year) so, while anecdotal, it's not a good sign.

Sounds more like a story about how your local store isn't doing very well. Maybe Panasonic pulled their product from them.

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post #275 of 516 Old 01-10-2013, 11:55 PM
 
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Not necessarily. Seems they carry every major brand but that one at this juncture, and one of the reps insinuated the volume discounts weren't enough for them to continue carrying them (of course he would likely not know/admit that it was Panasonic who pulled the plug...though I can't imagine the reason since Panasonic is in the business to sell, and there aren't many brick and mortar stores in the area, and the store in question has the most real estate dedicated to television in the whole county). I hope they begin carrying 2013 models as there is only one Best Buy in town (not a Magnolia), and it's a satellite store at that.
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post #276 of 516 Old 01-11-2013, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Not necessarily. Seems they carry every major brand but that one at this juncture, and one of the reps insinuated the volume discounts weren't enough for them to continue carrying them (of course he would likely not know/admit that it was Panasonic who pulled the plug...though I can't imagine whatever reason for). I hope they begin carrying 2013 models, but there is only one Best Buy in town (not a Magnolia), and it's a satellite store at that. The aformentioned is a giant mom & pop furniture store that has a sizable television division smack dab in the middle.

I guess I was just trying to point out that nobody really knows what happened. It could have gone either way. If it took them most of the year to move through a single display though, I have doubts about their ability to move units. That said, without Panasonic being UPP like everyone else they are certainly a less profitable brand to carry.

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post #277 of 516 Old 01-11-2013, 12:06 AM
 
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Could be the clientele or maybe the reps aren't that educated or are just LCD aficionados/hacks? wink.gif The lack of UPP could also very well be it (by the way, I edited that post about a dozen times...please refresh to see the latest iteration, lol). Nonetheless, it was my best chance to see a VT50 in the flesh, and I am disappointed that opportunity never came.
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post #278 of 516 Old 01-11-2013, 02:03 AM
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If this years Panasonic 55" ST60 can do 16ms/1 frame of input lag(which i highly doubt...) like the S30 & ST30 from 2011 than I'm on board....Eventually. XP
The 2012 1080p panny's had a brighter picture, wider color gamut and deeper blacks than the 2011 models as expected, but in my experience they were awful for gaming. The S30 is miles
better in terms of input lag, the difference is night and day.

Anyways, the input lag will be the deal breaker.
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post #279 of 516 Old 01-11-2013, 05:22 AM
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in terms of the longevity of Plasma, I'm a single point of reference.

Until yesterday, I didn't understand that Plasma's had antiglare coatings, and definitely didn't know that varied in terms of models going up the range.
The vendors aren't doing themselves any favors with the critic feature descriptions and long model numbers that even this tech-geek misunderstood.

It's like someone looking at my Subaru - and saying that's cool, what is it?
My answer- it's a subaru fjd45ffhe5556, but you might want to look at a subaru fjd45ffhj5556 too. sure they'll remember that.

or think apple ipod fjd45ffhe5556.
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post #280 of 516 Old 01-11-2013, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

If this years Panasonic 55" ST60 can do 16ms/1 frame of input lag(which i highly doubt...) like the S30 & ST30 from 2011 than I'm on board....Eventually. XP
The 2012 1080p panny's had a brighter picture, wider color gamut and deeper blacks than the 2011 models as expected, but in my experience they were awful for gaming. The S30 is miles
better in terms of input lag, the difference is night and day.

Anyways, the input lag will be the deal breaker.

Is there any scientific proof/testing to validated the ST50 vs ST30 input lag statement? I game a lot so input lag is of importance to me. I purchased a 55ST50 last November. I'm running it through its paces as I am still inside the return window (January 31).
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post #281 of 516 Old 01-11-2013, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

Is there any scientific proof/testing to validated the ST50 vs ST30 input lag statement? I game a lot so input lag is of importance to me. I purchased a 55ST50 last November. I'm running it through its paces as I am still inside the return window (January 31).

I'm curious about that as well - it seems like just a few people have been raving about ST50/GT50 input lag - if it was really that bad, I think we'd hear from more owners.
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post #282 of 516 Old 01-11-2013, 09:28 AM
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For 2013, there's an S60.
near as I can tell, it's a ST60 without the app or 3D.

IS there any reason someone who doesn't want the 3D (and of course any apps) wouldn't choose to save $900 and get the "S" model ($difference @ 65") ?
What else, if anything, changes between the models? I do still want/need very good reflection filtering....

Was there ever an S50?


*** damn , I'm excited!

update:
from :http://reviews.*******************.com/panasonic-plasma-tv/panasonic-tcp65s60.html
"The TC-P65S60 doesn't use the Infinite Black Pro panel of the ST60 series above it"

So- I'm thinking, but am not sure, that the lower "s" will also not have the better louver filter that protects against brighter room reflections..

This leads me to think I'd be better getting a marked-down 2012 ST50 - with might be roughly in line ($ and video performance wise) with a 2013 S60 anyway...
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post #283 of 516 Old 01-11-2013, 11:30 AM
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Where can I find the MSRP's for the new S60 line? I'm curious what the 55" and 60" retail for.

-Guru
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post #284 of 516 Old 01-11-2013, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ListedGuru View Post

Where can I find the MSRP's for the new S60 line? I'm curious what the 55" and 60" retail for.

-Guru

on the Panasonic web site - they are already listed for pre-order.
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post #285 of 516 Old 01-11-2013, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ListedGuru View Post

Where can I find the MSRP's for the new S60 line? I'm curious what the 55" and 60" retail for.-Guru

Initial MSRP:

TC-P42S60 $729
TC-P50S60 $899
TC-P55S60 $1,099
TC-P60S60 $1,299
TC-P65S60 $1,899

TC-P50ST60 $1,299
TC-P55ST60 $1,599
TC-P60ST60 $1,899
TC-P65ST60 $2,799

So far they haven't released prices for the VT60 or ZT60.

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post #286 of 516 Old 01-11-2013, 06:31 PM
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According to Panasonic website, the S60 does not have the 2500FFD, which can improve motion blur. And since the UT series is eliminated, you will have to step up to the ST60 at a higher price point to get that feature. So you may want to grab a UT now while still available if you are looking for higher end specs at the budget price. As the S60 will be more equivalent to the U50, with no smart features, no 3D, and no 2500 focused field drive. The UT series had more top end features at a lower end price. They apparently want you to pay more for the ST60 to now get th better specs and features. But the ST60 should indeed be very nice.
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post #287 of 516 Old 01-11-2013, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

If Panasonic never produces a plasma set with blacks better than the best Kuro--was buying the Pioneer patents a waste of cash?

If Panasonic never can beat Kuro--wouldn't it--would have been better--for Samsung to have had the patents? Maybe they would have at least used them!
I saw the ZT60 next to a VT50 in a dark room at CES, there was a BIG difference in black levels. Not to mention removing the second tier of glass will probably help many things. We will see in Spring /Summer.
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post #288 of 516 Old 01-11-2013, 08:10 PM
 
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^Ooh, another eyewitness acct from a vet, color me more excited! smile.gif
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post #289 of 516 Old 01-11-2013, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, help me out here:

The ZT has a new panel, right?
New technologies at play i.e force field 3000, single sheet panel, etc.?
New manufacturing process?
1st run is this year?

How many 1st generations anything have you seen that were a home run from launch?

I hope it is the greatest tv ever but I have data supporting that even if it has the blackest blacks troubles are going to pop up somewhere..well, because they always do in the 1st gen.

Also, David at CNET said this about the ZT60 in the same booth:

"I got a quick look at the ZT60 compared to the VT50 in a dark-room demo at Panasonic's booth, and the new panel did produce slightly deeper black levels than even that vaunted set. Panasonic's rep mentioned the company was still tweaking the software, but the improvements, while subtle, were clearly visible. Blacks didn't look quite as deep the "absolute" seen on OLED TVs, but they were pretty close."

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p60zt60/4505-6482_7-35567247.html

I'll buy the ZT60 in a heartbeat if it'd all that but I'm not buying the hype....yet.
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post #290 of 516 Old 01-11-2013, 09:33 PM
 
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^It's clearly all about perception. This is not the first single sheet panel from Pan actually, and the ZT series is not completely new but reincarnated. I remain hopeful, though I understand your attitude as well because you're less susceptible to be disappointed if you play down the hype.
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post #291 of 516 Old 01-11-2013, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^It's clearly all about perception. This is not the first single sheet panel from Pan actually, and the ZT series is not completely new but reincarnated. I remain hopeful, though I understand your attitude as well because you're less susceptible to be disappointed if you play down the hype.

Exactly right, Vinnie. Just trying to keep my expectations managed.
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post #292 of 516 Old 01-12-2013, 05:40 AM
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I saw the ZT60 next to a VT50 in a dark room at CES, there was a BIG difference in black levels. Not to mention removing the second tier of glass will probably help many things. We will see in Spring /Summer.

My EXACT thoughts. I couldnt believe what I was seeing. I was leaning toward an elite, until I saw it in person, it still has lcd flaws, which i cant stand. The only bummer is your expecting these in the summer????mad.gif
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post #293 of 516 Old 01-12-2013, 06:21 AM - Thread Starter
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"Meanwhile Panasonic President Kazuhiro Tsuga sought to pump up the struggling Japanese electronics maker, which is grappling with television woes and reported significant losses last year. Tsuga said the company was looking "at what types of options we can make" and warned: "Some businesses, it is necessary to further reduce."

But he said the company, which introduced new touch-screen Viera smart TVs and a 56-inch ultra-high-definition organic-LED television, was confident that its TV sales would turn around in the coming year and expected to be more cost-competitive on prices."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ces-wrapup-20130112,0,6118864.story
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post #294 of 516 Old 01-12-2013, 07:04 AM
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Hi

I am a owner of a SONY SXRD KDS-60A2000 and Panasonic TCP60ST30.
The SONY is going on 6 yrs never had any of the issues that most owners had (green blob - yellow color over entire screen).
However been wanting to purchase a 65 inch Panasonic Plasma to replace the SONY.
Let me just say that the Picture on the ST30 is stunning and the price point for the ST30 was unbeatable.
So with the news of the new 60 series from Panasonic I patiently will wait for the reviews before making my decision.
I will consider the VT as well as the ZT60.

Randy
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post #295 of 516 Old 01-12-2013, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Just operate under the assumption that 2013 (but hopefully stretch it to 2014!) could possibly be the last year they offer Plasma. The local furniture/AV store didn't even carry any 2012 models (and had a 2011 model on display for sale for almost the full year) so, while anecdotal, it's not a good sign.

Was it HH Gregg?? Around spring time in 2012, HH Gregg violated Panasonic's retailer pricing policies and Panasonic ceased doing business with them. We found out about it when people started posting that HH Gregg salesmen were falsely telling people that they dropped the Panasonic line because Panasonic was in trouble and couldn't provide inventory, but it turned out that it wasn't true at all.

But none of that scandal really has anything to do with their 2013 lineup or their future in PDP. Panasonic seems to be more committed to Plasma this year moreso than the other two companies and i think the reduced number of 2013 Samsung and LG models may actually help boost Panasonic sales this year. Panasonic needs to do a lot more marketing and advertising - word of mouth recommendations isn't enough to move product in this competitive world.

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post #296 of 516 Old 01-12-2013, 08:40 AM
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Gone about 8 days and miss all the fun.


  • Really like the look of the ZT60
  • My GT30 will be almost two years old in the fall, so Ill be watching the ZT60 and F8500
  • While THX mode does offer good out of the box PQ, nothing replaces a good calibration and yearly touchup
  • Using the GT30 for example, in mid panel brightness, the color LUT's were incorrect in Custom, BUT, in THX mode they used Mid Panel Brightness which is why THX mode was a good choice for calibration. THX mode also had the correct color LUT's so it had the advantage on the non THX model. Granted there was a workaround, but you guys are making THX mode to cut and dry, a lot of which I think comes from I have THX mode and you dont, so people get some angst. If I was buying again, Id get the GT30 and have it calibrated in THX mode. Mid Panel Brightness and proper color LUT's.
  • As far as grayscale, in any mode, get a pro calibration and keep it maintained because plasmas do drift.
  • Give Panny props for clever marketing. Beyond Reference, gimme a break.


Other thing I need to know is, will a ZT60 fit my GT30 wall mount eek.gif

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post #297 of 516 Old 01-12-2013, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Was it HH Gregg?? Around spring time in 2012, HH Gregg violated Panasonic's retailer pricing policies and Panasonic ceased doing business with them. We found out about it when people started posting that HH Gregg salesmen were falsely telling people that they dropped the Panasonic line because Panasonic was in trouble and couldn't provide inventory, but it turned out that it wasn't true at all.

But none of that scandal really has anything to do with their 2013 lineup or their future in PDP. Panasonic seems to be more committed to Plasma this year moreso than the other two companies and i think the reduced number of 2013 Samsung and LG models may actually help boost Panasonic sales this year. Panasonic needs to do a lot more marketing and advertising - word of mouth recommendations isn't enough to move product in this competitive world.

You speak the truth. About all of the above. My feeling is that Panasonic will own PDP in 2013. Samsung's F8500 does look promising as well though.

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post #298 of 516 Old 01-12-2013, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Initial MSRP:

TC-P42S60 $729
TC-P50S60 $899
TC-P55S60 $1,099
TC-P60S60 $1,299
TC-P65S60 $1,899

TC-P50ST60 $1,299
TC-P55ST60 $1,599
TC-P60ST60 $1,899
TC-P65ST60 $2,799

So far they haven't released prices for the VT60 or ZT60.

So the ST60 is the same "level" as the ST50 from last year, correct?

GT is now VT
VT is now ZT

Did I get it right?

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post #299 of 516 Old 01-12-2013, 09:11 AM
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So the ST60 is the same "level" as the ST50 from last year, correct?

GT is now VT
VT is now ZT

Did I get it right?

GT is gone, VT is VT, ZT is new. I don't think anyone can say with any certainty that the ST 60 is the same as the ST50. It is too early to tell.

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post #300 of 516 Old 01-12-2013, 09:18 AM
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So the ST60 is the same "level" as the ST50 from last year, correct?

GT is now VT
VT is now ZT

Did I get it right?

I don't think so. From what i'm gathering:

U, UT, and GT series is just plain gone for 2013.

ST60 replaces ST50, but design now looks more like the GT50. Re-uses the core 15G plasma panel from last year's ST50/GT50/VT50.

VT60 replacesfor the VT50. Re-uses the core 15G plasma panel from last year's ST50/GT50/VT50.

ZT60 is all new flagship model with it's own new and unique plasma panel and a big jump over the lesser models.

About a month ago AVJ said something to the effect that the ST60 will only be a slight PQ improvement over the ST50, but the higher initial release MSRP price may not be worth passing up a lower priced discounted ST50 now, unless you're more interested in the new models extra features. I get the feeling that the ST60 PQ will be slightly improved through improved software/firmware etc but not enough to justify the higher initial price.

I would like to know more about the new AR Filters that AVJ mentioned some time back but there has been virtually no discussion about since then.

Randy
TC-P55ST60, TC-P50GT50, TC-P46G10, TH-42PZ700U, TH-42PX50U, HP LC2600N, TiVo Series3, TWC Cisco 8742HDC DVR, Onkyo TX-SR605, URC R40 Remote.
Pic of My A/V setup - http://cdn.avsforum.com/f/f1/900x900..._Img_4867.jpeg
Gallery - http://www.avsforum.com/g/a/2082686/randywalter...
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