CES: Panasonic Unveils 2013 TVs; New Smart TV Interface - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 516 Old 01-18-2013, 04:54 PM
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I have. We couldn't see what the settings were. If your on the fence, and can wait a Lil longer, and can afford the extra $, I would wait. As good as the vt is, the zt looked spectacular.
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post #452 of 516 Old 01-18-2013, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^^^^

I don't understand. The only posts you seem to make are to tout the ZT. The fact is no one will really know until they've been in owners hands a month or so. There could be issues with panel in real world use. Why would any one be a 1st beta mover?
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post #453 of 516 Old 01-18-2013, 05:16 PM
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Thanks for sharing your impressions about the ZT. I have either another week or until mid-February to return my 65VT50 to BB (it depends on when I was given Silver reward status for buying the set). Then I'd have to wait until late April or early May to get the VT, pay another $600-800, and take the risk that the new panel has issues. Plus, I have some misgivings about returning a perfectly good set to BB -- even given that it's BB, the place that sells customers Belkin USB cables for $30.

Still, I can see some room for improvement over the VT50 in the black levels and in the reds, which is what the ZT promises.
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post #454 of 516 Old 01-18-2013, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I decided to keep the VT until the fall. By then reports will be in and prices will probably have fallen. If the reports are positive (other than black level which it seems Panny and Samsung have nailed) then I'll sell the VT and buy the ZT. I got a great deal on the VT and the lower holiday proces should offset the depreciation hit.

Besides no one knows how much the ZT will cost. If the ZT is $4500...is it 2x better than the VT which is going for $2459 at Pauls TV right now? Someone, I think Vinnie, posted that the single glass design was not new to Panasonic but I have to wonder if the years since they last made one makes this more of a 1st gen type product. That said, the VT is fully optimized. I come from 2 Kuros in a row. The only real difference I see is when I look at the black bars next to the frame. Slightly less black but the image is as astonishing in most ways and I don't feel left wanting for black in the image. If that makes sense.
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post #455 of 516 Old 01-18-2013, 10:37 PM
 
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I'm not 100% sure about this being the first time they've used a single glass design. I was previously referring to the resurrection of the ZT series. However, I hear it involves a new manufacturing process, so you're right about being cautious.

BTW, even the Kuro leaves me wanting when displaying starry nights. wink.gif When such content covers the entire screen, I can actually see the uneven wear due to using the TV to watch movies almost exclusively!
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post #456 of 516 Old 01-19-2013, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnylighton View Post

Who here has personally seen the ZT60? If you've seen it, what did you think? How much better is the ZT60 than the VT50? Did they use the best settings on the VT50 set to show its own capabilities?

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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^A handful have, opinions vary but most say noticeably better than the VT50. However, settings verification was not permitted.

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Originally Posted by yamvmax View Post

I have. We couldn't see what the settings were. If your on the fence, and can wait a Lil longer, and can afford the extra $, I would wait. As good as the vt is, the zt looked spectacular.

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Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

I don't understand. The only posts you seem to make are to tout the ZT. The fact is no one will really know until they've been in owners hands a month or so. There could be issues with panel in real world use. Why would any one be a 1st beta mover?

Sorry, I'm confused.

I actually saw the ZT, posted to that effect. It was against a VT50, which I doubt very much was set up perfectly, but let's pretend it was. The ZT was better. The color stuff won't matter for most .709 stuff, but let's pretend you'd notice the redder reds. Let's also agree the blacks will be a bit blacker.

That said, it's going to be ~$4500 at launch, which is something like $2000 more than you can get a VT50 for.

As I've already said, it's worth it for a videophile who is price indifferent.

It's not clear that it's objectively worth it for anyone else. I'm not sure it's $1000 more worth it than a VT60.

I'd point out that a picture-quality seeker who might upgrade again in 3-4 years who pockets the $2000 now will effectively get their replacement set for close to free and own a VT50 which is a pretty terrific TV.

That's my fairly expert opinion. It's not some random dude who is guessing. I've seen the new one; I own the old one.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #457 of 516 Old 01-19-2013, 12:43 AM
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You make good points, rogo. Although I'd be surprised if the ZT cost that much more. Sorry I missed your earlier post about the ZT - thanks for saying it again and addressing my question. smile.gif

I just watched my VT for a live talk show and then for two hours of the benefit concert for hurricane Sandy. It looked awesome. I can live with this awesomeness for years and be happy.
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post #458 of 516 Old 01-19-2013, 12:54 AM
 
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^Surprised at an SRP of $4500? I don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility, though I'm naturally hoping for something much closer to $4k.

Rogo, I was including you in that "handful" of "opinions" that "vary," not trying to diminish your input (so don't be confused!). wink.gif Out of everyone who's reported back, you were clearly the least impressed (and yes, you have the added benefit of owning the VT50, so the weight of you opinion should not be underestimated). I'd rather not try to make relative assessments on the expert level of everyone who witnessed this set at CES, however. smile.gif
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post #459 of 516 Old 01-19-2013, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Rogo, my post was directed towards yamvmax and those sitting on the fence. I have been burned to often by buying into hype here and being a 1st mover. Do you remember AV123 and it's subs? And how many Emotiva products were a let down after months of frenzied build up? How about the iPhone 5? Early adopters told the rest of us about the case scratching, Apple maps and the light bleed. Oh, the list goes on and on. I'm just cautioning to take a deep breath. The VT and Kuro are great TV's. Wait for the dust to settle.
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post #460 of 516 Old 01-19-2013, 08:26 AM
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are the new panasonics a lot brighter than the 2012-models? The Samsung is said to have double the brightness from last year when showing fullwhite. Has Panasonic improved that as well by a large margin?

I want my next TV to have "smell the glove"-blacklevel. I got me an st50 and I think I can smell some leather in a not too far away distance somewhere.
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post #461 of 516 Old 01-19-2013, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnylighton View Post

Thanks for sharing your impressions about the ZT. I have either another week or until mid-February to return my 65VT50 to BB (it depends on when I was given Silver reward status for buying the set). Then I'd have to wait until late April or early May to get the VT, pay another $600-800, and take the risk that the new panel has issues. Plus, I have some misgivings about returning a perfectly good set to BB -- even given that it's BB, the place that sells customers Belkin USB cables for $30.

Still, I can see some room for improvement over the VT50 in the black levels and in the reds, which is what the ZT promises.



Ugh, thats a lot of work. Up to you obviously but I guess the question is how much is your time worth? Lets face it...you're not going to notice any difference unless you had a ZT in the same room.


Personally I would either save the cash/time or spend the money you would have spent on the ZT on something else....anything...new iPad, Guitar, leather jacket,....whatever floats your boat.
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post #462 of 516 Old 01-20-2013, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbleboyjones View Post

Ugh, thats a lot of work. Up to you obviously but I guess the question is how much is your time worth? Lets face it...you're not going to notice any difference unless you had a ZT in the same room.


Personally I would either save the cash/time or spend the money you would have spent on the ZT on something else....anything...new iPad, Guitar, leather jacket,....whatever floats your boat.

Smart of you to factor in that time has value. Sometimes I think, "what could we be doing with our time if we weren't pursuing the perfect picture, pre/pro, subwoofer, etc.?" There's a big world out there and I'd bet the Swiss Alps would make a more lasting imppression than a great blu-ray on a perfect black tv.
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post #463 of 516 Old 01-20-2013, 09:04 AM
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I am fine with the vt50's black levels. It's the lack of sharpness (for a flagship TV) and picture noise that I don't like. That's the improvement I want to see. Brighter whites would be nice too.

Any reason to think the zt will be better in those areas?

Btw. That silver stand calls attention to itself, and not in a good way frown.gif
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post #464 of 516 Old 01-20-2013, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barth2k View Post

I am fine with the vt50's black levels. It's the lack of sharpness (for a flagship TV) and picture noise that I don't like. That's the improvement I want to see. Brighter whites would be nice too.

Any reason to think the zt will be better in those areas?

Btw. That silver stand calls attention to itself, and not in a good way frown.gif
thats it no one knows

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post #465 of 516 Old 01-22-2013, 07:08 AM
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News from Denmark

ZT60s will be hand-built. They will be available in limited numbers and at select retailers only.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
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post #466 of 516 Old 01-22-2013, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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^^^^

Translated

Z-series returns with Panasonic this year and offers an upgrade in picture quality.

If you have been following Panasonic models in several years, so you probably remember the Z-series. First, there was the Z1, later, and the series Z11 welcomed on details where there was kælet of both the giblets as the exterior.

This year is turning Z-series back from Panasonic, and there are delights for plasma-fans. The design is, however, identical on this year's models and ZT60, it is the VT60 internal that is different.

Panasonic ZT60 sits a special highend plasma display, a Studio Master Panel.

This particular reference panel provides the best black rendering, which Panasonic can offer, and the demonstrations they gave at CES so definitely promising. There was certainly something better, with more black in the dark areas, than detaler at last year's topmodel VT50 hung beside for the equation.

Panasonic calls itself ZT60 for absolute excellence in image quality. Display in ZT60 can reproduce more details than the conventional plasma display. The nuances can be dissolved in whole 30.720 step, in a color space with several possible color tones.

ZT60 built, assembled and checked by hand at the factory, in order to ensure that quality comes with the appliance completely out of the factory.

It will be a TV for the few. Panasonic is based only on a limited number of ZT60. It comes to be sold through a small number of traders and the price is yet unknown.


(PRICEY???)

We hope to hear more about this exciting TV news when Panasonic reveals more details about the European models. This happens on a large event here in February
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post #467 of 516 Old 01-22-2013, 08:13 AM
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Cool, I like giblets when watching tv. Gotta love those translators:)
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post #468 of 516 Old 01-22-2013, 04:51 PM
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That $4500 MSRP that I was told about is sounding more and more likely, isn't it?

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #469 of 516 Old 01-22-2013, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^^

Yes it is. I'm curious....given the Elite 151 MSRP was $6500 and since this is hand built, select retailers, limited quanities....could it be even more with litle or no discounting?
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post #470 of 516 Old 01-22-2013, 05:28 PM
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ZT60 built, assembled and checked by hand at the factory, in order to ensure that quality comes with the appliance completely out of the factory.

Hand built?!?! Not sure how comfortable I would be with Chung Fang assembling my high end display. This doesn't seem logical but I guess anything is possible?
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post #471 of 516 Old 01-22-2013, 05:37 PM
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Lmao@ Chung Fang
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post #472 of 516 Old 01-22-2013, 05:52 PM
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I think that the the Panasonic insider on the other forum said that this was not true.

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post #473 of 516 Old 01-22-2013, 05:59 PM
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I can't believe that they're going to hand-assemble the ZT60, they have state of the art robotics to handle that, and with a precision that a human can't match. I think something may have been mis-reported or translated wrong, because i just don't see this happening. It doesn't make good business sense. I think the most they'd do is fire up each TV after final assembly to ensure that there are no issues with it before boxing it up for shipment. Even that would be expensive.
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post #474 of 516 Old 01-22-2013, 06:44 PM
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I think it was said that they will be built(assembled?) in Japan instead of Mexico. Anyway definitely not hand-built.
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post #475 of 516 Old 01-22-2013, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barth2k View Post

I am fine with the vt50's black levels. It's the lack of sharpness (for a flagship TV) and picture noise that I don't like. That's the improvement I want to see. Brighter whites would be nice too.

Any reason to think the zt will be better in those areas?

Btw. That silver stand calls attention to itself, and not in a good way frown.gif

how close are you sitting to your TV?

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post #476 of 516 Old 01-22-2013, 07:27 PM
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"ZT60 built, assembled and checked by hand at the factory"

Could also mean they were assembled at the factory(robotically) THEN checked by hand...(Human quality control) The missing word "THEN" gives it an entirely different meaning..
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post #477 of 516 Old 01-22-2013, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

That $4500 MSRP that I was told about is sounding more and more likely, isn't it?

Thinking lately that it may be closer to $4000, not below though. With what is known so far, I think that is a fair price. Sounds like it will be the best PQ available at 65". Price could have been a LOT worse.

Though I am an employee of Magnolia Home Theater, the views and opinions I express on this forum are those of my own and not my employer.
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post #478 of 516 Old 01-23-2013, 01:29 AM
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Thinking lately that it may be closer to $4000, not below though. With what is known so far, I think that is a fair price. Sounds like it will be the best PQ available at 65". Price could have been a LOT worse.

It might have a street price that low, but the SRP is not going to be that low, unless plans are dramatically altered between now and release.

I spoke with ~8 Panasonic people and all were in agreement that ~$1000 above VT list pricing was the correct number.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #479 of 516 Old 01-23-2013, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post



Thinking lately that it may be closer to $4000, not below though. With what is known so far, I think that is a fair price. Sounds like it will be the best PQ available at 65". Price could have been a LOT worse.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure there will only be a 55" and60" zt.
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post #480 of 516 Old 01-23-2013, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

It might have a street price that low, but the SRP is not going to be that low, unless plans are dramatically altered between now and release.

I spoke with ~8 Panasonic people and all were in agreement that ~$1000 above VT list pricing was the correct number.

So my question is which VT, the 50 or 60? I'm getting the feeling that it's the 50.
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