Samsung F8500 - new industry standard? [please use links to newer thread] - Page 61 - AVS Forum
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post #1801 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jav1 View Post

Decided to go to Best Buy this evening and check out Hockey on the F8500 and unfortunately I can confirm that there were noticeable brightness fluctuations (not camera flashes!) seen during game play. I will say it did seem a bit less frequent than on the E series, but without viewing side by side it’s really hard to tell. None the less, much to my disappointment, it was there. Tried adjusting cell light and contrast a bit to see if I could find a sweet spot for the ABL with hockey, but no dice. I also noticed a bit of DSE on this particular panel in the form of vertical banding, one very light bluish band and one light gray. Nothing too terrible, but visible with the white ice during camera pans. I’d suggest if you’re really into hockey, try to check-out the panel first to see if this set will work for you.

Interesting. Robert's calibrated 64" F8500 showed as perfect and uniform a full field white as I've ever seen. No banding and a perfectly uniform white field. That was one of the key qualities I looked for and was wowed with.

What size was this?
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post #1802 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

OK fine, I am sick of ABL too but for different reasons then you. I don't ever notice a dim picture, but fluctuations are unbearable.

So lets hypothetically say I wanted to switch to LED. Does a set exist that will match or surpass the performance of say, a Panasonic ST, in 60'' that can be had for around $2000???

I am asking that question seriously BTW.

We saw no brightness fluctuations as you describe. What can I say? None of us saw it.

As for cheap LEDs, I have no idea. My guess is you'll be happier with a Panasonic.
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post #1803 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by barth2k View Post

I did not read that advice, but that is basically what I did with my first plasma, the vt50. First thing, I put in d-nice settings. Custom mode, contrast around 90.Turned on 1:1 pixel, which turned off the pixel orbiter, because I wanted the sharpest picture. Then watched whole Sunday of football -- 3 hrs of logo and scoreboard on CBS, 3 hrs on Fox, 3 hours on NBC, then couple more hours on ESPN and NFL network (which has more screen junk than actual screen content). I had about 10 hours on the set prior to that. Checked IR with slides, no problem. Kept watching TV. Movies with black bars. Periodically checked IR. No problem.

I don't exactly recommend this, but it's how I roll now. I figure this way: if you want to check a patient's heart, stick him on a treadmill and put a monitor on him. If the TV is IR prone, I want to find out earlier rather than later.

I went through the whole IR anxiety with my CRT RPTV. My brother got one and did he care? Nope, just watched TV. Did anything happen to his TV? Nope.

Plasmas are like babies. First one you get, you're a nervous wreck. By the time the third one rolls around, you're like "I need to get some sleep, can I give the baby half an Ambien? Come on, it's only half! They say it's not addictive."

Well, if you like D-Nice's settings, then he too recommends the orbiter. He mentioned that at Robert's store. I can't see the harm in using this, at least at the beginning. I mean we see many reports from people right here on AVS that suffer from IR. So this is not an imagined problem and something that should be dismissed.
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post #1804 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by altagracia57 View Post

Maybe my eyes need to be taught what to look for, but watching the Rangers lose to the Canadiens last night and I don't see what the fuss is about. The whites of the Rangers jerseys didn't clash with the ice. The ice was the usual cloudy-sheen white ice as it should be and the reflections from the rink lights that went down both sides of center ice were noticeable only on views from behind the net, not the classic side-rink view. Whatever the prob you guys saw watching hockey I can't tell, but I do know this set blows my old Pioneer PDP-5071 out of the statosphere that's for sure. It was pretty enjoyable to watch imo.

I'm certainly not going to tell you what to look for then! It's clear from this thread and the E series thread that only a minority of people see it. I did think the game looked great otherwise. Superb detail and color saturation, players really popped. Enjoy your panel!
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post #1805 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Interesting. Robert's calibrated 64" F8500 showed as perfect and uniform a full field white as I've ever seen. No banding and a perfectly uniform white field. That was one of the key qualities I looked for and was wowed with.

What size was this?

This was the 60 on display at Westbury. I think the camera panning on the ice caused this to be viewable.
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post #1806 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 07:41 AM
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Just curious - what are you going to do to stop your son from destroying your next set?!
Ihave had this happen to a few clients, sounded like there where going to roll the dice............
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Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

So lets hypothetically say I wanted to switch to LED. Does a set exist that will match or surpass the performance of say, a Panasonic ST, in 60'' that can be had for around $2000???
.
That is an easy, NO. Only 2 units that stand a chance are the Sony XBR.
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post #1807 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jav1 View Post

This was the 60 on display at Westbury. I think the camera panning on the ice caused this to be viewable.

Generally though, on a full-screen white, you can pick up these anomalies. I saw that yesterday on a Sony 950 with a static image. I wonder if the 60" is more prone to this than the 64" since we saw no evidence of it on the 64". I didn't see a full field white on the 60".

Where did they have the 60" F8500 set up? I only saw the 64" F8500 at Westbury.
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post #1808 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by jav1 View Post

I'm certainly not going to tell you what to look for then! It's clear from this thread and the E series thread that only a minority of people see it. I did think the game looked great otherwise. Superb detail and color saturation, players really popped. Enjoy your panel!

Of course it's possible his panel simply doesn't have it.
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post #1809 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by scientifix View Post

Though I still ensure that an image doesn't stay still for hours, I have many times had an image paused for a few minutes but never run into burn in issues nor noticed even IR.

I don't think anyone is worrying about a few minutes, but watching the History Channel for a couple of hours, as one poster mentioned, can cause IR issues. It certainly did for him. There have many other posters with similar stories, including several I've gotten in PMs (probably because they're afraid to post it publicly for fear of attacks.) wink.gif

I was at a Magnolia yesterday and the sales guy there is an occasional poster on AVS and a really good guy. He understands video and has his sets displayed better than any Magnolia I've seen. He tells customers about the difference between torch mode and a calibrated mode and even tries to demonstrate that as best he can with some generalized settings.

Despite being careful with their new plasmas, and trying to avoid torch settings at the beginning, he showed me panel after panel with clear evidence of IR on some and more subtle, but visible IR on others. These are not panels that have been running for 1 year 12 hours a day on the same channel, but relatively new panels. They may be displaying ESPN or some similar channel for longer periods than I would, but nonetheless there is clear evidence of IR.

On Robert's brand new F8500, D-Nice picked up a slight trace of IR, but fortunately it went away after a short period. So this is one reason why I insist that posters that claim there is no issue with IR are doing people a disservice. Look, I still have a 4-year old 42" Kuro plasma and it shows zero signs of IR/burn-in. I don't believe my 60" Kuro did either. But I was very careful for the first 200 hours and avoided static images, blazing channel logos etc. Today my wife watches what she wants to watch for as long as she wants. Her viewing habits haven't impacted this display. Then again she doesn't watch some of the worse channels for this, like the History Channel.

So I want to make it clear that IR is not inevitable with common sense precautions. But posters that say no common sense precautions are necessary are just wrong and are risking providing poor advice to other AVS members who may well get IR by treating a plasma as if it were an LED. If you say "I never got it and I did absolutely nothing to prevent it", well I say good for you. But we have many posters who have experienced IR and burn-in and are not crackpots, unknown posters, or people with an agenda.

Follow common sense precautions, particularly when the panel is new, and you should have no significant issues.
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post #1810 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

Ha! Good question. Maybe take all of his toys away so he can't throw them at the TV! wink.gif

Really IDK maybe pay a bunch of money for a screen protection warranty or an ugly screen protector???

Have any other suggestions?

Have you tried shackles & chains? biggrin.gif
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post #1811 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Generally though, on a full-screen white, you can pick up these anomalies. I saw that yesterday on a Sony 950 with a static image. I wonder if the 60" is more prone to this than the 64" since we saw no evidence of it on the 64". I didn't see a full field white on the 60".

Where did they have the 60" F8500 set up? I only saw the 64" F8500 at Westbury.

Magnolia section side by side with a VT50.
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post #1812 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by jav1 View Post

Magnolia section side by side with a VT50.

When I was there that was a 64" F8500 next to a 65" VT50. I guess they could have moved things around.
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post #1813 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 09:16 AM
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Ken

I talked to Robert regarding my concerns regarding my wife's watching HGTV hours a day with its logo displayed on the lower right of the panel.

Here is his response.

Plasma would be a better choice for delivering the best picture quality, but I am also a little concerned about the HGTV logo burning in.

The best way you protect a plasma panel from burn in is two fold. First a very long break-in of at least 500 hrs or more. Second is to leave the TV on and change the channel after watching long periods of time with a static image on the screen.

Another good tip is to engage the pixel orbiter in the set-up menu.

Hope this helps.


For me, I want a TV that I can enjoy and not stress over. I saw the F8500 yesterday and it does look good but because of IR and burn-in possibility, I will probably go with either the 65F8000 or the Sony 65HX950.



m

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post #1814 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 09:40 AM
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Is the screen have a burning sensation ? Working with the computer ?
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post #1815 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

Ken

I talked to Robert regarding my concerns regarding my wife's watching HGTV hours a day with its logo displayed on the lower right of the panel.

Here is his response.

Plasma would be a better choice for delivering the best picture quality, but I am also a little concerned about the HGTV logo burning in.

The best way you protect a plasma panel from burn in is two fold. First a very long break-in of at least 500 hrs or more. Second is to leave the TV on and change the channel after watching long periods of time with a static image on the screen.

Another good tip is to engage the pixel orbiter in the set-up menu.

Hope this helps.


For me, I want a TV that I can enjoy and not stress over. I saw the F8500 yesterday and it does look good but because of IR and burn-in possibility, I will probably go with either the 65F8000 or the Sony 65HX950.



m

Robert's advice is good. I can't disagree with his logic or yours. I'm sure you'll enjoy either LED, but frankly, I think the 950 is your better choice for pure PQ. You just can't beat full array in the LED world and we still have to see what the 65"F8000 brings to the table in the form of banding. To be honest, with the strides that Samsung has made this year, it wouldn't surprise me if they've solved the banding issue too...or at least minimized it.

But for the other things that full array offer over edge lit, you'll probably do better with the 950. But I have little doubt you'll love either one (assuming banding is solved on the 65" F8000)
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post #1816 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by top111 View Post

Is the screen have a burning sensation ? Working with the computer ?

If you're using this primarily for a monitor attached to a laptop or desktop, you're better off with LED IMO.
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Robert's advice is good. I can't disagree with his logic or yours. I'm sure you'll enjoy either LED, but frankly, I think the 950 is your better choice for pure PQ. You just can't beat full array in the LED world and we still have to see what the 65"F8000 brings to the table in the form of banding. To be honest, with the strides that Samsung has made this year, it wouldn't surprise me if they've solved the banding issue too...or at least minimized it.

But for the other things that full array offer over edge lit, you'll probably do better with the 950. But I have little doubt you'll love either one (assuming banding is solved on the 65" F8000)


Agree 100%

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post #1818 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 10:13 AM
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As I had mentioned in e-mail or earlier posts: If you watch 5 hours of the program then 5 hours of something else everyday, the screen will recycle back to normal. Do not do this and burn in may take place.( Very good chance ) Breaking in a set longer or engage the pixel orbiter will not prevent possible burn in.

Edge lit anomalies will probably never be resolved. These issues are in edge lit technology itself. If I am not mistaken reports are starting to come in of some of these issues in the F8000 threads.

--If you have the cash, the XBR-65HX950 is the "easy" choice.......
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post #1819 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

As I had mentioned in e-mail or earlier posts: If you watch 5 hours of the program then 5 hours of something else everyday, the screen will recycle back to normal. Do not do this and burn in may take place.( Very good chance ) Breaking in a set longer or engage the pixel orbiter will not prevent possible burn in.

Edge lit anomalies will probably never be resolved. These issues are in edge lit technology itself. If I am not mistaken reports are starting to come in of some of these issues in the F8000 threads.

--If you have the cash, the XBR-65HX950 is the "easy" choice.......

Chris

I stopped by Best Buy yesterday and brought Baraka to watch. For 2 hours, I sat and looked at the 65HX950. Beautiful. The blacks were very noticeably blacker than my present 8000.

I will be PMing you

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post #1820 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

Chris

I stopped by Best Buy yesterday and brought Baraka to watch. For 2 hours, I sat and looked at the 65HX950. Beautiful. The blacks were very noticeably blacker than my present 8000.

I will be PMing you

If you think Baraka looks good then youll also like Samsara wink.gif .......
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post #1821 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 11:02 AM
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If you think Baraka looks good then youll also like Samara wink.gif .......

I have Samara but have never watched it. I guess I should

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post #1822 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 11:05 AM
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Wouldn't you think that something could be done about the symbols left on the screen by the channel broadcasters? I mean do they really want to piss off plasma owners.?That seems like pretty poor PR don't you think? Naturally there is no law against it and they have a right to advertise however they want, but shouldn't the consumer, us, have some expectation of a degree of consumer protection regarding the absolutely substantiated proof of damage to our equipment?
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post #1823 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

Chris

I stopped by Best Buy yesterday and brought Baraka to watch. For 2 hours, I sat and looked at the 65HX950. Beautiful. The blacks were very noticeably blacker than my present 8000.

I will be PMing you

jim, the 950 is a great display. i would choose that any day over the f8000 if you have the cash reserves.

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post #1824 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

I have Samara but have never watched it. I guess I should

You should wink.gifsmile.gif would be a good test along with the Baraka...if you really want to try to touture a screen for levels, the Death Eaters attack in Harry Potter DH Pt2 may be a good test, or heck Tron Legacy which is almost entirely dark scense after dark scene.....

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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Wouldn't you think that something could be done about the symbols left on the screen by the channel broadcasters? I mean do they really want to piss off plasma owners.?That seems like pretty poor PR don't you think? Naturally there is no law against it and they have a right to advertise however they want, but shouldn't the consumer, us, have some expectation of a degree of consumer protection regarding the absolutely substantiated proof of damage to our equipment?

Nothing will be done as there are not enough people that know or care about it......As far as expectations I am goign to go with No, vote with your fingers and switch the channel, of course unless you are in a "monitored or metered home it wont manke a difference anyhow......
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post #1825 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 11:13 AM
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jim, the 950 is a great display. i would choose that any day over the f8000 if you have the cash reserves.

I am retired, no kids, nothing to do but spend $$$ on my TV. The golden years is a good life

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post #1826 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 12:50 PM
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Something really interesting just happened with my 64F8500. The set turned itself on automatically along with my receiver then about 10 seconds later both components shut down. CEC is enabled. The only thing I can think of that would cause this is I have the auto update feature enabled. I have now disabled this feature. I hope I don't have a defective set.
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post #1827 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 12:54 PM
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Something really interesting just happened with my 64F8500. The set turned itself on automatically along with my receiver then about 10 seconds later both components shut down. CEC is enabled. The only thing I can think of that would cause this is I have the auto update feature enabled. I have now disabled this feature. I hope I don't have a defective set.

Did you see anything onscreen when it turned on? What receiver you have? My CEC acts flaky it turns everything on after I shut down like 10 seconds later also If I shut it down again sometimes receiver turns on again like much later. I have tried 2 different receivers Pioneer VSX-30 and Yamaha RX-A820
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post #1828 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 01:02 PM
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What exactly is the Pixel Orbiter and what does it do?
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post #1829 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 01:13 PM
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The PO is a function of the TV that "moves" Pixels that is supposed to help with IR, in reality it doesnt do much of anything and msot on the forum dont sue it as there are more effective ways of taking care of IR....
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post #1830 of 1868 Old 03-31-2013, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

Did you see anything onscreen when it turned on? What receiver you have? My CEC acts flaky it turns everything on after I shut down like 10 seconds later also If I shut it down again sometimes receiver turns on again like much later. I have tried 2 different receivers Pioneer VSX-30 and Yamaha RX-A820
The TV had been off for 8 hours when this happened. I don't recall seeing anything on the screen. I know the TV was on because the standby light was off. It all happened rather quickly. I have the Yamaha RX A710 receiver. I had that exact same problem you referenced when turning everything off, receiver would come back on like 10 seconds later. I have managed to resolve that issue. Now when I turn everything off with the remote the receiver stays off. Also the first day I used the set Samsung connected in remotely and the set turned off and back on during the remote session. The agent didn't do this on his end. Not sure what that was about.
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Closed Thread Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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