Samsung F8500 - new industry standard? [please use links to newer thread] - Page 62 - AVS Forum
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


So I want to make it clear that IR is not inevitable with common sense precautions.

In fact, it's probably rare even without any precautions.
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But posters that say no common sense precautions are necessary are just wrong and are risking providing poor advice to other AVS members who may well get IR by treating a plasma as if it were an LED.

And posters who keep beating a 10-year-old drum are risking scare-mongering. No, they're doing more than risking it actually.

I treat my plasma like a television. I follow the advice I provided elsewhere. I admit that whatever leftover 4:3 still comes into my home pretty much gets stretched at this point (by the DVR I guess...I'm not even sure what's doing it). The DVR also has a screensaver when it's paused for a certain amount of time. The idea that I shouldn't watch 6 hours of NCAA basketball because the score bars might get image retained? I mean that's just ridiculous. Anyone suggesting otherwise should be dismissed.
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If you say "I never got it and I did absolutely nothing to prevent it", well I say good for you. But we have many posters who have experienced IR and burn-in and are not crackpots, unknown posters, or people with an agenda.

I should hope I haven't crossed the line and called any meaningful number of those people crackpots. I'm sure the vast majority of them are sincere.
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Follow common sense precautions, particularly when the panel is new, and you should have no significant issues.

Again, if you want to be cautious when your TV is new, I'd say that's a conservative, reasonable thing to do.

Once people start advocating for orbiter use as some kind of image-retention prevention method, I'd say that's like advocating against science. The orbiter cannot prevent image retention, it can merely "smear" the retained area over a slightly larger space. For the pixel orbiter to do what people want to believe it does, it would have to orbit the image by something like 100 pixels. It doesn't do anything near that -- and to do that, you'd need so much overscan, you'd be butchering your image to "prevent" image retention.

From what I can tell, the orbiter is operating in a range that is between 1/2 and a full order of magnitude less than that). If people really want to believe that moving the "channel bug" around by less than the size of the channel bug can help them, hey, go ahead. It's pretty harmless to run the orbiter from what I can see. Once you understand you are chopping off all four sides of the image -- and you are -- the orbiter's action seems fairly imperceptible. In fact, it's so imperceptible I'm confident the very thing a lot of people think is happening isn't coming remotely close to happening.

If you are considering buying a plasma TV and think that to enjoy it you need to not just use it as a television but instead must obsess over it and worry that it will somehow become damaged by using it like a television, you have two choices. One: Get over it and enjoy your TV. Or, better yet, two: just buy an LCD TV. Once you believe the mostly nonsensical construct of worry, you will probably never be able to stop worrying. The LCD will end your worry.

(To those of you with Panasonic plasmas that are actually suffering from image retention, you do have my sympathy by the way. To those of you considering the Samsung F8500, please consider my advice seriously. The Samsung sounds great, but no TV should require any kind of worrying around how you use it.)

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by floridaman View Post

The TV had been off for 8 hours when this happened. I don't recall seeing anything on the screen. I know the TV was on because the standby light was off. It all happened rather quickly. I have the Yamaha RX A710 receiver. I had that exact same problem you referenced when turning everything off, receiver would come back on like 10 seconds later. I have managed to resolve that issue. Now when I turn everything off with the remote the receiver stays off. Also the first day I used the set Samsung connected in remotely and the set turned off and back on during the remote session. The agent didn't do this on his end. Not sure what that was about.

That is strange. Maybe the voice recognition thought it heard Hi TV and turned on..lol Maybe do a master reset of everything If it happens again.

How did you resolve the CEC stereo issue? I still have the problem.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

The PO is a function of the TV that "moves" Pixels that is supposed to help with IR, in reality it doesnt do much of anything and msot on the forum dont sue it as there are more effective ways of taking care of IR....

It's a placebo. Does nothing to fight IR, only blurs the edges of IR.
The corporate lawyers must have told plasma manufactures to included it to avoid litigation.eek.gif
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by floridaman View Post

The TV had been off for 8 hours when this happened. I don't recall seeing anything on the screen. I know the TV was on because the standby light was off. It all happened rather quickly. I have the Yamaha RX A710 receiver. I had that exact same problem you referenced when turning everything off, receiver would come back on like 10 seconds later. I have managed to resolve that issue. Now when I turn everything off with the remote the receiver stays off. Also the first day I used the set Samsung connected in remotely and the set turned off and back on during the remote session. The agent didn't do this on his end. Not sure what that was about.

I've had that problem when I've enabled the HDMI control to 'on'. I gave up several displays ago because it just got too frustrating. Yeah, it's nice to have one device turn on and then have the next HDMI connected device do the same thing. But I can do that with my Harmony One without the frustration.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I've had that problem when I've enabled the HDMI control to 'on'. I gave up several displays ago because it just got too frustrating. Yeah, it's nice to have one device turn on and then have the next HDMI connected device do the same thing. But I can do that with my Harmony One without the frustration.

I agree, but the Harmony doesn't have a touch pad for the swiping and onscreen mouse cursor for web and other features. I was hoping to only use one remote, but I guess that isn't happening since Samsung currently doesn't make any stand alone receivers.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:46 PM
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(To those of you with Panasonic plasmas that are actually suffering from image retention, you do have my sympathy by the way. To those of you considering the Samsung F8500, please consider my advice seriously. The Samsung sounds great, but no TV should require any kind of worrying around how you use it.)

So with all you've said, the question arises, why are all these people suffering from something, in essence, you say doesn't exist? Just got two more PMs today from Panasonic owners that have IR but don't want to get embroiled in this. It's a shame that some are actually afraid to post things like this for fear of being attacked.

Second, there is no difference that I've heard between the tendency for IR on a Samsung vs a Panasonic. Some say the Panasonics have historically been more prone to it. But I don't know how factual that is or isn't.

Third, the orbiter isn't meant to eliminate IR. But it's easier to get rid of it with the orbiter engaged since the IR is spread over a bit larger area, somewhat 'blurred', rather than being brighter and more 'pin pointed'. A somewhat dimmer area of IR is easier to get rid of then a bright, more concentrated area.

Have the last word, I'm done and tired with this after who knows how many posts.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

I agree, but the Harmony doesn't have a touch pad for the swiping and onscreen mouse cursor for web and other features. I was hoping to only use one remote, but I guess that isn't happening since Samsung currently doesn't make any stand alone receivers.

True. I may be one of the few, but I really like that touch pad remote on the Samsung. I took to it the first time I tried it. But changing channels must be a pain in the butt.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:57 PM
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can someone tell me how the SD upscaling is on this tv?
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

I agree, but the Harmony doesn't have a touch pad for the swiping and onscreen mouse cursor for web and other features. I was hoping to only use one remote, but I guess that isn't happening since Samsung currently doesn't make any stand alone receivers.

Well they do, but is it worth buying probably not wink.gif I think the ideal move would be to license out the AnyNet+ and ot make it available to other AVR manufacturers.....That way it wold work as it should (its a nice dream isnt it wink.gif )
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

That is strange. Maybe the voice recognition thought it heard Hi TV and turned on..lol Maybe do a master reset of everything If it happens again.

How did you resolve the CEC stereo issue? I still have the problem.
I think I turned everything off with the Yamaha remote or at least the receiver with yamaha remote. I also remember messing with the source button on Yamaha remote. Sometimes you have to follow a specific sequence on the receiver remote, at least that is what the Yamaha manual said. The other issue is while the receiver and TV turn on with Samsung remote the receiver defaults to the TV mode and I always have to change to Hdmi one option. I believe the smart hub causes this.
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I've had that problem when I've enabled the HDMI control to 'on'. I gave up several displays ago because it just got too frustrating. Yeah, it's nice to have one device turn on and then have the next HDMI connected device do the same thing. But I can do that with my Harmony One without the frustration.
So you are saying that you have had a TV and receiver turn on and off at random with HDMI control enabled? I have no problem using a universal remote control and I have a Harmony 700 which I don't care for. I have looked into the Harmony one and there is a newer model that replaces that one for less money but reviews aren't great on this remote. My main concern is I want to be sure I don't have a defective set. If I contact Samsung the reps there are totally clueless.
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:29 PM
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Did some research and found that some of the Samsung plasma sets would turn on and off at random to check for updates. I turned off my auto update feature. Hopefully that was the issue.
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

True. I may be one of the few, but I really like that touch pad remote on the Samsung. I took to it the first time I tried it. But changing channels must be a pain in the butt.

It is hard to actually put in specific channel numbers but easy to access the guide on the cable box by just pressing down on the touch pad so you can just scroll to the channel. The virtual remote also lists some of the last channels you went to. It gets easier the more you use it.
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:57 PM
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Second, there is no difference that I've heard between the tendency for IR on a Samsung vs a Panasonic. Some say the Panasonics have historically been more prone to it. But I don't know how factual that is or isn't.

Cnet accidently left a static image on 1 Samsung and 2 Panasonic plasmas for 8 hours. The Panasonics had burn in, the Samsung did not. I might buy a Samsung just based on that, because I don't trust my wife to be considerate enough to keep the burn-in possibilities in mind.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57449881-221/samsung-plasma-wins-cnets-accidental-burn-in-test/
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by floridaman View Post

So you are saying that you have had a TV and receiver turn on and off at random with HDMI control enabled? I have no problem using a universal remote control and I have a Harmony 700 which I don't care for. I have looked into the Harmony one and there is a newer model that replaces that one for less money but reviews aren't great on this remote. My main concern is I want to be sure I don't have a defective set. If I contact Samsung the reps there are totally clueless.

Yup, had it with my Elite until I turned off HDMI control.
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

Cnet accidently left a static image on 1 Samsung and 2 Panasonic plasmas for 8 hours. The Panasonics had burn in, the Samsung did not. I might buy a Samsung just based on that, because I don't trust my wife to be considerate enough to keep the burn-in possibilities in mind.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57449881-221/samsung-plasma-wins-cnets-accidental-burn-in-test/

Yup. I saw that.
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Old 03-31-2013, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

Cnet accidently left a static image on 1 Samsung and 2 Panasonic plasmas for 8 hours. The Panasonics had burn in, the Samsung did not. I might buy a Samsung just based on that, because I don't trust my wife to be considerate enough to keep the burn-in possibilities in mind.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57449881-221/samsung-plasma-wins-cnets-accidental-burn-in-test/

It is good to know about that, but in order to avoid frightening away potential purchasers of plasma displays, I want to point out that Cnet concluded that report about the potential for serious Image Retention, if one leaves a set paused on the same image for several hours straight, with the following conclusion:

"But despite the ever-decreasing concerns about burn-in there's one reason I will always pick a plasma over an LCD: image quality. For the money nothing can beat a plasma for deep black levels, wide viewing angles, uniformity, and motion-blur-free gaming. Until OLED TVs become affordable -- and word is they may also be susceptible to burn-in -- I will be choosing a plasma for use at home."
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Old 03-31-2013, 06:16 PM
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99.99% of people never read this forum or one like it. And yet virtually no plasmas are being returned because of this "rampant" image retention that's supposedly running around if you read the nonsense here. Occam's Razor suggests strongly that the reason for that is that these people are not suffering from detectable problems. First, because they'd call them "burn in". Second, because they'd all be screaming at Best Buy, Abt, Cleveland Plasma, VE, etc. Third, because we hear no such stories -- except here, where the vast majority of people still don't return their TVs.

How are you able to claim that virtually no plasmas are returned because of IR... do you have a source for that info or is that your opinion? Like you said, most people will never post on a forum like this, so if a lot of people did return their plasma because of IR, that information might never be posted online. I don't think the absence of these reports is a valid premise to support the conclusion that virtually no plasmas are returned because of IR though.

I've read many people stating they've returned their 2012 plasma due to IR on AVSForum, but like you said, that only represents a very small part of the population. Amazon is one good place to read reviews from a sample more closely representing the 'common consumer', and there, especially in the comments sections, I've read many buyers complain about IR on 2012 plasmas, some of which resulted in a return or exchange. Even so, plasmas from 2012 have great reviews on Amazon, and this isn't necessarily because their sets don't exhibit IR... it could just be that they would prefer IR to flashlighting/edge-bleed of LEDs. Also, more reviews than not, don't mention IR on Amazon. Maybe they don't know what IR is, maybe they didn't think to include that in their review since it's inherent to plasma technology, or maybe their sets don't have it, like yours. Either way, to say it is nonsense is kind of insulting to those people that do have it.

As far as the F8500 goes, I can't wait to see it in person. Unfortunately, I'm not sure when or where in Fresno it would be in stock. Neither one of the two Best Buys here have Magnolia centers, so that would leave Sears...

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Old 03-31-2013, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by floridaman View Post

I think I turned everything off with the Yamaha remote or at least the receiver with yamaha remote. I also remember messing with the source button on Yamaha remote. Sometimes you have to follow a specific sequence on the receiver remote, at least that is what the Yamaha manual said. The other issue is while the receiver and TV turn on with Samsung remote the receiver defaults to the TV mode and I always have to change to Hdmi one option. I believe the smart hub causes this.

So basically CEC isnt working correctly for you either because If it was you could just use the TV remote and everything would work fine
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Old 03-31-2013, 06:59 PM
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I went to my local Magnolia store. No F8500 to be found. Employees clueless to arrival.

On a lighter note, regarding bias, Worst Buy continues to suck. smile.gif
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It is surprising the Magnolia Center didn't have the set on display. Knowing BB it is probably sitting in the back somewhere. The local Magnolia stores in my area do have them on display. I purchased my 64F8500 set at BB on Thursday and it was delivered on Friday.

Because it would be inexcusable if Best Buy wasn't able to get nearly 400 stores to set this TV on the exact same day. Come on people. I realize a lot of you aren't fans of Best Buy, but be reasonable with your expectations. The blue shirts in the store aren't the ones that are supposed to be setting the displays anyway. Don't expect every single one of them to know the exact date each model with be put out. This is often a combination of many factors, none of which are up to the blue shirts in the store. There are many warehouses across the country and they all receive inventory at different times. Sometimes if models have restricted inventory, they avoid putting them on display so that there are more available for customers to purchase. It told you guys the time frame that these would be in stores(the week of 3/31), so please don't flip out when they aren't there before I said they would be.

Though I am an employee of Magnolia Home Theater, the views and opinions I express on this forum are those of my own and not my employer.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:21 PM
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So basically CEC isnt working correctly for you either because If it was you could just use the TV remote and everything would work fine
Yes I always have to switch the receiver from AV4 to HDMI 1. Not a big deal but it is an extra step. The part that was troubling was the receiver turning back on after shutting the TV down but I have managed to work through that issue. I will probably just get the Harmony remote and turn off all HDMI controls.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:22 PM
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:05 PM
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It would be great if the forum moderator would combine the two Samsung threads.
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:25 PM
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Yes I always have to switch the receiver from AV4 to HDMI 1. Not a big deal but it is an extra step. The part that was troubling was the receiver turning back on after shutting the TV down but I have managed to work through that issue. I will probably just get the Harmony remote and turn off all HDMI controls.

Floridaman, did you follow surfmlb's suggestion about settings to avoid the default to Smart Hub? If so, does the TV go to its proper input or is it the receiver that's not going to its proper input? If so, this sounds like another weird HDMI control screw up.

I'm curious if you turn off HDMI control on the Samsung and disconnect the TV from your receiver, will the Samsung then go to its proper video input when turned on?
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:43 PM
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Floridaman, did you follow surfmlb's suggestion about settings to avoid the default to Smart Hub? If so, does the TV go to its proper input or is it the receiver that's not going to its proper input? If so, this sounds like another weird HDMI control screw up.

I'm curious if you turn off HDMI control on the Samsung and disconnect the TV from your receiver, will the Samsung then go to its proper video input when turned on?
I turned off the default setting for Smart Hub when I first got the set. I use HDMI 3 only and the set automatically defaults to this input when it is turned on. I had the E8000 that I experimented with in the past and it exhibited the exact same behavior with switching the receiver to AV4. Definitely an HDMI control issue with Samsung.
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:48 PM
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OK, good to know it's not an issue with the 8500 itself. IMO these HDMI controls are just not ready for prime time. You'll be much happier with a Harmony and turning off HDMI control. I would still keep the Sammy remote handy myself for TV adjustments because I find it just really nice to use. For overall use, I'd use the Harmony.
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:55 PM
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OK, good to know it's not an issue with the 8500 itself. IMO these HDMI controls are just not ready for prime time. You'll be much happier with a Harmony and turning off HDMI control. I would still keep the Sammy remote handy myself for TV adjustments because I find it just really nice to use. For overall use, I'd use the Harmony.
Planning on getting the new Harmony remote at BB tomorrow.
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:36 AM
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:49 AM
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Mark_b,

I can confirm that the panasonic blue tooth glasses work with the f8500. They're better the the ones the tv ships with. And while I'm on the topic this set has and incredible 3D picture!
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiznant View Post

Mark_b,

I can confirm that the panasonic blue tooth glasses work with the f8500. They're better the the ones the tv ships with. And while I'm on the topic this set has and incredible 3D picture!
Any signs of visible crosstalk?


Max
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