Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 193 - AVS Forum
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Plasma Flat Panel Displays > Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread
sealteamz6's Avatar sealteamz6 10:55 PM 06-05-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timokreon View Post

3d settings do get saved, just need to make sure you're receiving a 3d signal when changing/saving the settings. At least that's the way Chad B calibrated mine, and they're still there. lol smile.gif

Enjoy the tv! smile.gif

You should post your 3D settings smile.gif

grizimes's Avatar grizimes 10:56 PM 06-05-2013
All this talk about size got me thinking. I am pretty sure when I first started getting into HT, and it's been almost 2 years, with the first year or so working on audio (and now I'm working on video with upgrading my display and my AVR), I read that your main watching position should be 2.5 times the size of your set. So if you have a 40", and I have a 40" Sony XBR4, you should sit 100" away. That said with a 65" screen one theoretically should be sitting 13.5 feet away. This was said because obviously the closer you get to the screen the less clarity the picture has. Does this hold true? I could just be making it up, but I'm pretty darn sure I read that when I first got into this hobby. Any thoughts?
sealteamz6's Avatar sealteamz6 11:03 PM 06-05-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizimes View Post

All this talk about size got me thinking. I am pretty sure when I first started getting into HT, and it's been almost 2 years, with the first year or so working on audio (and now I'm working on video with upgrading my display and my AVR), I read that your main watching position should be 2.5 times the size of your set. So if you have a 40", and I have a 40" Sony XBR4, you should sit 100" away. That said with a 65" screen one theoretically should be sitting 13.5 feet away. This was said because obviously the closer you get to the screen the less clarity the picture has. Does this hold true? I could just be making it up, but I'm pretty darn sure I read that when I first got into this hobby. Any thoughts?

Sounds right to me. However with these TV's having a native resolution of 1080p and most content moving towards being 1080p its not something I would worry about. I am gonna be getting a 60 inch and sit about 7-8 feet away from the TV. Granted I dont have it so I can't say for sure. In my old bedroom I sat like 4-5 feet from my 42inch 1080p panny plasma and never had any problems. I would think you would have to be sitting closer than you would want to for it to lose significant clarity
GregLee's Avatar GregLee 11:19 PM 06-05-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banner23 View Post

Do you think $700 for 5 inches is a good deal ?
Yes. (But I have only the 60" model.)
Quote:
Why is the jump to 65 so expensive when you compare it with the price differences with the other tv sizes.
There is no justice in this world.
enigma7820's Avatar enigma7820 11:23 PM 06-05-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizimes View Post

All this talk about size got me thinking. I am pretty sure when I first started getting into HT, and it's been almost 2 years, with the first year or so working on audio (and now I'm working on video with upgrading my display and my AVR), I read that your main watching position should be 2.5 times the size of your set. So if you have a 40", and I have a 40" Sony XBR4, you should sit 100" away. That said with a 65" screen one theoretically should be sitting 13.5 feet away. This was said because obviously the closer you get to the screen the less clarity the picture has. Does this hold true? I could just be making it up, but I'm pretty darn sure I read that when I first got into this hobby. Any thoughts?

I believe that 2.5 for 720p but its more like 1.5 for 1080p
hank0's Avatar hank0 11:30 PM 06-05-2013
After I'm done the 100hrs straight of slides, my plan is to try the settings from d-nice, cnet, and the other 3 very nice people from here. I will use which ever settings look best for my panel as a starting point, then use the Disney WOW to fine tune the picture. Is this a good idea? Or should I use WOW and start from scratch?
andy sullivan's Avatar andy sullivan 11:38 PM 06-05-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by sealteamz6 View Post

To me 700 dollars for 5 extra inches seems ridiculous. I want a 65 inch but its totally unrealistic in my opinion to spend the amount of extra money it would cost to get those extra 5 inches. Im planning to just go with a 60 inch then in a few years 65 and 70 inches will be much cheaper
They may be cheaper but then again so will the 60" Unless someone is having an unusual sale you will most likely see a similar price spread. It's all a matter of supply and demand. They don't want to over build the 65" for fear of being stuck with a few thousand of them at the end of the year. That same reasoning is also why they will build a small percentage of Z's and a bigger percentage of V's and a very high percentage of S's.
Cleveland Plasma's Avatar Cleveland Plasma 12:11 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Yep, worked every time for me. smile.gif
Some may be stubbern, but that's when a $20 comes in.......... tongue.gif
sealteamz6's Avatar sealteamz6 02:06 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by hank0 View Post

After I'm done the 100hrs straight of slides, my plan is to try the settings from d-nice, cnet, and the other 3 very nice people from here. I will use which ever settings look best for my panel as a starting point, then use the Disney WOW to fine tune the picture. Is this a good idea? Or should I use WOW and start from scratch?

Based on what I have read the settings posted by CNET, Dnice, Cadett and others were formed using professional calibration equipment. I am also under the impression the Disney WOW disc is more of a basic to intermediate calibration disc. I have the WOW disc and its great. There is nothing wrong with using it. But its unlikely it will allow you to get a better calibration than the settings posted by those using professional equipment and who spend many hours calibrating. Just my two cents from what I have gotten from this thread. I would go with one of their settings and if you dont like something then proceed to change it till you like it.
Bond 007's Avatar Bond 007 03:43 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

That's interesting. Since I don't have a set with USB capability, I never thought about USB input. My guess would have been that it's an external source just like HDMI and the other inputs.

samijubal: Click here for the rules that all TV manufacturers must follow.

By the way, a cable box is external. You have to use the internal TV tuner to get surround sound. Something in you previous setup may have been simulating surround sound from a stereo input. Many AVRs can do that.
Your statement about the cable box is confusing. I assume you are talking specifically about getting sound from the digital optical port but your statement is too broad to make sense.
eric3316's Avatar eric3316 04:56 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by hank0 View Post

After I'm done the 100hrs straight of slides, my plan is to try the settings from d-nice, cnet, and the other 3 very nice people from here. I will use which ever settings look best for my panel as a starting point, then use the Disney WOW to fine tune the picture. Is this a good idea? Or should I use WOW and start from scratch?
The Disney WOW disc can be good for fine tuning the basic settings for your light environment as depending on the light in the room, contrast and brightness settings will differ based on this. I would first plug in the pro settings and then you can check where you stand with the Disney WOW disc.
cart2step's Avatar cart2step 06:31 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Not in your situation. What would your heart do if you wound up with a different set and a new problem that you could actually see. wink.gif

Exactly. So, I'm going to put my slight case of OCD to the side and live with it. Besides, even if I wanted to exchange it, there aren't any in stock to exchange it with!
MopperSmurf's Avatar MopperSmurf 06:32 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

This is normal on many (maybe even all?) Panasonic models over the years and people post about it from time to time.

All four of mine have the purple line of pixels down the left edge and green line down the right edge. As i type this i'm looking at my 50" GT50 from 8 feet away and i can kinda see the lines from here biggrin.gif

Thanks for replying! I called a friend today with a ST50 and he is experiencing the same, so a big relief for me;) And you can really see it from 2.5 meters?
GregLee's Avatar GregLee 06:40 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by sealteamz6 View Post

I have the WOW disc and its great. There is nothing wrong with using it. But its unlikely it will allow you to get a better calibration than the settings posted by those using professional equipment and who spend many hours calibrating.
But those using professional equipment are calibrating their own sets, not yours. When you use the WOW disk, you're calibrating your own set. That's a big difference. The point to calibration is to adjust for variations among individual TVs. If you use someone else's settings, you're not calibrating your own TV at all.
Raikirik's Avatar Raikirik 06:44 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda1169 View Post

Your panel will be fine. Just watch a lot of varied content during the first 100hrs or so.

Thanks. By the way, I seem to have some IR from the settings menu where it shows select and return in the bottom left corner. I also have some in the top left from the box that indicates what input you're currently on. At first the IR was only visible during screen wipe but it is no longer visible there and just barely visible on the second darkest gray slide from D-Nice.

It seems the consensus is to avoid IR for the first 100 hours. Is this just because the panel is more prone to it during that time or will it also become more prone to it in the areas where you had developed it even after 100 hours? My set only has about 25 hours racked up.
Heywould's Avatar Heywould 07:05 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raikirik View Post


It seems the consensus is to avoid IR for the first 100 hours..

Where are you getting this data from? I have never seen that statement on any thread.

And just run a pixel flipper and it will go away..Disney WOW disk or some other source.
ryansebiz's Avatar ryansebiz 07:23 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecpackers View Post

the box and packaging are pretty legit. i completely repackaged my tv to return (factory defect, got another one)....

make sure you save the plastic clips that are in the side of the box....

Any chance you can post a summary of your repackaging steps? I'm moving in a few months and am interested in how you did it.

Specifically, what do you do with the plastic clips?
Colonel Badger's Avatar Colonel Badger 07:25 AM 06-06-2013
I know there's an "Input Lag" thread, but that seems more related to games etc.

My question, before buying one of these, is, is there any noticeable lip sync issues related to lag ? I don't currently own an AMP that is able to delay audio, so if there are any issues with lag causing lip sync this would be a major problem.

I would be hooking up the Video directly from Blu-ray and DirecTV using HDMI to the TV, and then using a direct Optional/Coax cable from the input devices to the AMP for surround sound (haven't got an amp with HDMI input yet). Are people doing this with an ST60 and seeing any issues?

Would really appreciate any replies confirming things are good ;-)

Thanks

Mark.
Heywould's Avatar Heywould 07:27 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Badger View Post

I know there's an "Input Lag" thread, but that seems more related to games etc.

My question, before buying one of these, is, is there any noticeable lip sync issues related to lag ? I don't currently own an AMP that is able to delay audio, so if there are any issues with lag causing lip sync this would be a major problem.

I would be hooking up the Video directly from Blu-ray and DirecTV using HDMI to the TV, and then using a direct Optional/Coax cable from the input devices to the AMP for surround sound (haven't got an amp with HDMI input yet). Are people doing this with an ST60 and seeing any issues?

Would really appreciate any replies confirming things are good ;-)

Thanks

Mark.

you will not have any issues. and yes, many people have hooked the audio to the receiver and video to tv, including me. I do not see any sync issues, I have my BD player directly into the TV and a digital out(From BD player) to receiver, I have never seen any delay.
Raikirik's Avatar Raikirik 07:34 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heywould View Post

Where are you getting this data from? I have never seen that statement on any thread.

And just run a pixel flipper and it will go away..Disney WOW disk or some other source.

Sorry I believe I meant to avoid static images and such that would lead to IR in the first 100 hours. If I read a few posts that said something along those lines but I apologize in advance if I am misinterpreting things. Should I turn up contrast when running a pixel flipper?

Would the IR lead to uneven phosphor aging in the affected sections along the way? Sorry for asking all these questions. I just got the set last weekend so I'm still really antsy about anything that goes on with it.

It's definitely a beautiful set. I was watching my Game of Thrones blu the other day and the blacks on the Night's Watch cloaks were very black! My older TV is a 5 year old 42 inch Sharp LCD.
GunmetalR56's Avatar GunmetalR56 07:44 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Let me know what you think. I think I might just miss the ST60 because of all the hype around it right now. It did have a great picture though. In the daytime, my es7500 has what appears to be blacker black to the eye. Side viewing is not great though.

What does feel good is I have been able to play Nascar races from my DVR for my son the past 3 days for hours and not have to worry about the Fox Sports logo stuck on my screen for days because of it.

Night time viewing on the es7500 is obviously not as good but if you put it in standard mode where micro dimming works and lower the brightness nighttime viewing is not bad at all and the es8000 has better dimming then my es7500.

Eric, sorry for the delayed reply. I went on vacation right after the TV swap smile.gif

I'll try to keep it brief since this is the ST60 thread. I like the F8000 quite a bit but strangely enough I'm still not as excited about it after a week as I was about the ST60. I think I've figured out why finally.

The ST60 has a deeper image than the F8000..it almost looks more 3D while it is displaying 2D. I don't know how else to describe it but this had a huge impact on me and I will sorely miss it.

The louvered glass screen on the ST60 is better by far in my sunny room: it was perfectly viewable in full sun exposure. Who would have thought I could say that about a shiny plasma! The F8000 has the typical rainbows and ripples that you see with most shiny LCD screens when the sun hits it just right. This is THE #1 annoyance for me with the F8000. I wish Sammy had used gorilla glass with this TV.

Motion was better on the ST60 but we knew that. Samsung AMP set to Clear gets pretty dang close though!
3D on the F8000 wins hands down... it is the best 3D I've ever seen. 2D wise I can get the picture pretty close to what I saw on the ST60 with the added benefit of having tons of extra brightness to play with.

Smart features are much better and menus are faster on the Samsung. I do have to say I prefered the ST60 menu system more (this is a small thing I know).

Input lag between the TVs feels about the same. I'd probably give a "slight" nod to the ST60 on this one as feeling a tad quicker.

Ultimately, I will end up keeping the F8000. With no IR to worry about and lots of brightness (this is a big deal to my wife) it has it's own strengths to counter the ST60's strengths. I see no clouding, no banding and with eco mode on I see no flashlighting when viewing in a dark environment.

Eric, good luck in your TV travels! To everyone else: enjoy those ST60s smile.gif That is one fantastic picture you have there and I will always wish I still had one.
Heywould's Avatar Heywould 07:53 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raikirik View Post

Sorry I believe I meant to avoid static images and such that would lead to IR in the first 100 hours. If I read a few posts that said something along those lines but I apologize in advance if I am misinterpreting things. Should I turn up contrast when running a pixel flipper?

Would the IR lead to uneven phosphor aging in the affected sections along the way? Sorry for asking all these questions. I just got the set last weekend so I'm still really antsy about anything that goes on with it. It's definitely a beautiful set. I was watching my Game of Thrones blu the other day and the blacks on the Night's Watch

Ask away, no harm in that..

I can’t say for sure what the IR will do to the phosphors in the long run but the two while they are related they are distant cousins,

I wouldn’t worry AT ALL about any of this, just relax and watch your tv, you’re not gonna kill it. I can tell you that I have minor IR from the create channel logo, I CAN NOT see it if I sit on the couch and watch tv, I only see it when I run the color slides, and then only on the red slide. I know where it is and I know its there and I still cannot see it while watching the tv.. if I go OCD I will see it by walking up close to the tv and staring at the set with a paused picture..

I use to run the pixel flipper every other night, once I noticed the IR I worried a little (not much) and ran the WOW disk after two or three times it was gone, I was satisfied that it can be fixed and now I watch anything I want in the intended format, I don’t stretch or zoom, I don’t surf channels, I don’t turn the contrast up or down,, I watch the TV as it was intended and I am very happy. The pic is great and the lack of stress and worry makes the tv that much better..

Just enjoy your set and dont worry. There are no issues you can create that will hurt your tv so bad that it will be unwatchable..

Feel free to age your set as intended but you will not really be able to see a difference in the PQ (maybe ever so slight) Also, you can also age the TV to ease your mind on IR, and the Panasonic manual does say to not leave static images on the screen for long periods, I think this is referring to many many hours, using the slides will NOT help with IR, it is ONLY intended to prep the TV for calibration. Calibration from a pro is costly and (major improvement in PQ) useful but also will not help with IR.

For the record I have the 60ST60 and have not had a pro cal, I have my contrast at between 83-90 depending on what I watch.

Last comment for now, if my OCD kicks in I will look for IR and if I see it I will either avoid the thing that caused it or run the pixel flipper over night. I want to stress that I do not see it from my viewing position, I just do it to be sure it doesn’t build up over time and make it viewable from the couch later.
cadett's Avatar cadett 08:12 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by hank0 View Post

After I'm done the 100hrs straight of slides, my plan is to try the settings from d-nice, cnet, and the other 3 very nice people from here. I will use which ever settings look best for my panel as a starting point, then use the Disney WOW to fine tune the picture. Is this a good idea? Or should I use WOW and start from scratch?

I would do exactly as you described. Good plan.
tlinnert's Avatar tlinnert 08:15 AM 06-06-2013
So my 60ST60 was to be delivered from Amazon by way of Pilot Delivery this morning between 9:00-12:00. I received a call that this has now been pushed back to as late as 2:00 and they will only be sending one guy so I will need to assist him up the three floors of stairs. Not only am I now out a full day of work as opposed to a half day but I am now an integral part of the "enhanced delivery" process. Here's hoping the one individual assists me with setting up the pedestal and getting the TV on it.
cadett's Avatar cadett 08:18 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raikirik View Post

Thanks. By the way, I seem to have some IR from the settings menu where it shows select and return in the bottom left corner. I also have some in the top left from the box that indicates what input you're currently on. At first the IR was only visible during screen wipe but it is no longer visible there and just barely visible on the second darkest gray slide from D-Nice.

It seems the consensus is to avoid IR for the first 100 hours. Is this just because the panel is more prone to it during that time or will it also become more prone to it in the areas where you had developed it even after 100 hours? My set only has about 25 hours racked up.

I would not mention ir on this thread. People will think you are crazy. wink.gif I have a ESPN logo burnt in on my screen.
sealteamz6's Avatar sealteamz6 08:30 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

But those using professional equipment are calibrating their own sets, not yours. When you use the WOW disk, you're calibrating your own set. That's a big difference. The point to calibration is to adjust for variations among individual TVs. If you use someone else's settings, you're not calibrating your own TV at all.

True however if the TV's are the same they shouldn't vary that much I would think. And with multiple people out there posting their professional calibrations you should be able to find one that works for you or comes close and then like I said proceed to fine tune it to your liking.
garnettrules21's Avatar garnettrules21 08:41 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadett View Post

I would not mention ir on this thread. People will think you are crazy. wink.gif I have a ESPN logo burnt in on my screen.
How early did you start to notice signs of IR? I remember reading a few posts of people getting IR just from their menus when adjusting settings. If you have the WoW disk has it helped clear it up/fade it?
Raikirik's Avatar Raikirik 08:49 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heywould View Post

Ask away, no harm in that..

I can’t say for sure what the IR will do to the phosphors in the long run but the two while they are related they are distant cousins,

I wouldn’t worry AT ALL about any of this, just relax and watch your tv, you’re not gonna kill it. I can tell you that I have minor IR from the create channel logo, I CAN NOT see it if I sit on the couch and watch tv, I only see it when I run the color slides, and then only on the red slide. I know where it is and I know its there and I still cannot see it while watching the tv.. if I go OCD I will see it by walking up close to the tv and staring at the set with a paused picture..

I use to run the pixel flipper every other night, once I noticed the IR I worried a little (not much) and ran the WOW disk after two or three times it was gone, I was satisfied that it can be fixed and now I watch anything I want in the intended format, I don’t stretch or zoom, I don’t surf channels, I don’t turn the contrast up or down,, I watch the TV as it was intended and I am very happy. The pic is great and the lack of stress and worry makes the tv that much better..

Just enjoy your set and dont worry. There are no issues you can create that will hurt your tv so bad that it will be unwatchable..

Feel free to age your set as intended but you will not really be able to see a difference in the PQ (maybe ever so slight) Also, you can also age the TV to ease your mind on IR, and the Panasonic manual does say to not leave static images on the screen for long periods, I think this is referring to many many hours, using the slides will NOT help with IR, it is ONLY intended to prep the TV for calibration. Calibration from a pro is costly and (major improvement in PQ) useful but also will not help with IR.

For the record I have the 60ST60 and have not had a pro cal, I have my contrast at between 83-90 depending on what I watch.

Last comment for now, if my OCD kicks in I will look for IR and if I see it I will either avoid the thing that caused it or run the pixel flipper over night. I want to stress that I do not see it from my viewing position, I just do it to be sure it doesn’t build up over time and make it viewable from the couch later.

Thank you very much for your informative post. I had actually stumbled upon the Master Burn-In/IR thread and read your posts there. Good to know your IR went away after using the pixel flipper. That means you can't see it on the red slide anymore right? I ran the WOW disc myself for less than an hour to see what it could do and my IR faded a lot. It's now only visible at a certain close up distance on only the second most dark gray slide and I have to focus my eyes pretty hard to see it. I feel confident it will go away completely it's just that like I said, it's still in its infancy so I'm slightly worried. Thanks again for your reply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadett View Post

I would not mention ir on this thread. People will think you are crazy. wink.gif I have a ESPN logo burnt in on my screen.

I'll be directing my IR questions to the Burn-In/IR thread now haha. You actually got Burn-In as in, it doesn't fade at all?
cadett's Avatar cadett 08:55 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by garnettrules21 View Post

How early did you start to notice signs of IR? I remember reading a few posts of people getting IR just from their menus when adjusting settings. If you have the WoW disk has it helped clear it up/fade it?
I ran break-in slides for 100 hours, calibrated my set & watched normal content for a week. Being mindful of logos & what not. What I don't know is what my sons viewing habits were when I wasn't home. I'm wondering if he left it on ESPN all day, one day. I personally watched one game of the sec collegiate baseball championship on this set, which was on ESPN. A couple of days after watching the game I noticed the ESPN IR. I ran the scrolling bar overnight & that didn't do jack. I then ran the pixel flipper overnight & it seemed to help a little but the image was still there. So, I ran a few other pixel patterns & have watched full content for two weeks now & it has faded some, but the image is still there. I also get ir from the menu, but that normally fades. I haven't noticed anything else being burnt in since. I do still get IR, but it eventually fades away(it just doesn't just go away on my set). There have been others on here that said they get no IR whatsoever. I do believe them. I've had several plasmas & have followed the owners threads on each one of them. Several people would report IR on their sets in the threads & I never seen IR last more than 5 minutes on all the other plasmas. Well I guess I got my turn. I contacted Panasonic about how sever the IR was on this particular set I have & told them everything that I just told you plus more & there response was basically, "nothing we can do about it". Now on the plus side, from sitting 9' away I don't notice it all on normal content.
samijubal's Avatar samijubal 09:08 AM 06-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Badger View Post

I know there's an "Input Lag" thread, but that seems more related to games etc.

My question, before buying one of these, is, is there any noticeable lip sync issues related to lag ? I don't currently own an AMP that is able to delay audio, so if there are any issues with lag causing lip sync this would be a major problem.

I would be hooking up the Video directly from Blu-ray and DirecTV using HDMI to the TV, and then using a direct Optional/Coax cable from the input devices to the AMP for surround sound (haven't got an amp with HDMI input yet). Are people doing this with an ST60 and seeing any issues?

Would really appreciate any replies confirming things are good ;-)

Thanks

Mark.

There is definitely lag using a receiver, this is true with all HDTVs due to the video processing. Your Blu-ray player may have an adjustable delay, I've got a couple of DVD players that do. DTV receivers don't as far as I know, mine doesn't.
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