Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 202 - AVS Forum
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post #6031 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Realize this is the s60, but interesting review with black level measurements...beats the vt50 allegedly:

http://www2.digitalcamerainfo.com/content/panasonic-viera-tc-p60s60-review/the-science
The EU ST60 beats EU F8500 on the black levels ( tests HDTVtest, AVF ...) ... cool.gif

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post #6032 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 04:00 AM
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Originally Posted by mondo3 View Post

anyone here who's bought an ST wished they had gone for a VT instead? I'm having a tough time deciding if the VT is worth the extra 70%
If you got the money, why not but I would not put myself out for it. You will get better blacks, better light filter, better 3d and a better smart TV experience with voice and a built in camera. If it is worth it really depends on your money situation and what is important to you.

If I was going to spend that much money though I would also give the F8500 some serious consideration as well.
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post #6033 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by echeng View Post

I have my tv for almost a month. Everything is good but I noticed something a couple of days ago that concerns me somewhat as I do not see this in my lcd tv. I noticed this by accident. If I am really close to the tv, I meant a couple of inches, the pixels are flicking over dark area, say black. On bright area, it is crystal clear. Of course, I did not notice it early because I watch tv from a normal distance and it looks great from my normal viewing area. (I do not recall seeing this in my old panasonic plasma.)

Is this normal? I hope my tv is not defective this is not indicative of problems down the road as this is way past the return period.

Thanks.

Ed

Your TV is not defective; its the nature of plasma; phosphors dance/move to give the picture you see on the screen. The only time this is a concern is if it is visible distinctly from your normal viewing position.

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Originally Posted by KTM250 View Post

So no one else is seeing this issue? Im sure it is not my signal because my D8000 plasma did not have this problem.

Are you talkign about seeing this image "ghost" after that left hand side panel goes away? If so it sounds like some minor Image retention. Whenever I watch F1/nascar I get some minor IR if they leave something up on the screen for a bit. It will go away with some normal content viewing.

If its something different I'm not quite sure what you mean; it would be best to take a picture of it if possible.

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post #6034 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by echeng View Post

I have my tv for almost a month. Everything is good but I noticed something a couple of days ago that concerns me somewhat as I do not see this in my lcd tv. I noticed this by accident. If I am really close to the tv, I meant a couple of inches, the pixels are flicking over dark area, say black. On bright area, it is crystal clear. Of course, I did not notice it early because I watch tv from a normal distance and it looks great from my normal viewing area. (I do not recall seeing this in my old panasonic plasma.)

Is this normal? I hope my tv is not defective this is not indicative of problems down the road as this is way past the return period.

Thanks.

Ed

This is normal, but it can be tamed if you have your panel calibrated.

My Panasonic 60ST60 Settings

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post #6035 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mondo3 View Post

anyone here who's bought an ST wished they had gone for a VT instead? I'm having a tough time deciding if the VT is worth the extra 70%

If I hadn't just dropped 3 grand on Samsung two years ago. There's no question, VT all the way. Do I think the price gap is too much? Yes. I originally thought that the ST60 was underpriced. But after spending a few months with it, I think it's priced about right at msrp & the VT's might be a little overpriced.

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post #6036 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Lethean View Post

Well I just saw a line through the price so I was assuming it was on sale. I'll select that one then since I didn't before...Assuming it's 6500k anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samijubal View Post

Someone posted on here a ways back it's 6400K.
Here are a few picks of the light at different dimming levels...

25%


50%


75%
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post #6037 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by cadett View Post

If I hadn't just dropped 3 grand on Samsung two years ago. There's no question, VT all the way. Do I think the price gap is too much? Yes. I originally thought that the ST60 was underpriced. But after spending a few months with it, I think it's priced about right at msrp & the VT's might be a little overpriced.
What Sammy did you buy 2 years ago.
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post #6038 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

What Sammy did you buy 2 years ago.
Samsung PN58B860

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post #6039 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by pronghorn/az View Post

My local BB is actually pushing the Panny plasmas!

Jeff

I have been surprised as well. When at both BB and Abt, the sales guys both suggested plasma and preferred them over LED. It depends on the salesman I guess and how knowledgeable and honest they are.
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post #6040 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Urga View Post

I have the S790 and LX55 ...
The S790 is not the same chip as the Oppo ...
The LX55 has the same chip as the Oppo Marvel Qdeo ... wink.gif

Sorry for the mistake...do you like the S790? Would you recommend it? The LX55 is no longer available.
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post #6041 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by dogbertok View Post

Bump.. Any suggestions?

This is the one I purchased and will be putting up before the end of the week.

http://www.costco.com/Kanto-37%22---80%22-Full-Motion-Articulating-Mount-KMFMX2.product.100007845.html
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post #6042 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Here are a few picks of the light at different dimming levels...
Looks good, what level do you like to use ? How well do you think it works ?

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post #6043 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

I think there may be a problem with my ST60.

I have gotten a purple tinted screen with my cable box a few times over the last 2 weeks, usually days apart. The last time it happened, I plugged the HDMI cable from the cable box to the dvd player and that result was not purple. I plugged the same input back into cable and it was purple. I took the cable box to a different tv in the house and it was not purple, then took it right back to the ST60 and it was purple again through the same input as before. I have cable going through a denon 1713, but have tried multiple inputs and had the purple eventually happen. I have never seen the dvd player purple, but I watch it much less frequently than the cable. I have also switched the HDMI cables. Right now i am using cable and haven't seen the purple screen since Friday. Does anyone know if this sounds like a problem with the tv? I'm out of options on what other troubleshooting to do, especially since the problem is so intermittent and seems to come and go at random.

I can say though that I had this same cable box with another tv and avr and never had this happen. Only recently did I add the denon and st60.

Anyone?
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post #6044 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by HD2Blu View Post

Sorry for the mistake...do you like the S790? Would you recommend it? The LX55 is no longer available.
You can go to a S790 is excellent , very close to the LX55 ... wink.gif

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post #6045 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by samijubal View Post

Someone posted on here a ways back it's 6400K.

6400k..Thanks wink.gif I knew I had the numbering wrong.
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Originally Posted by HD2Blu View Post

I'm a big fan of the Sony S790. It's had the same processing chip that the OPPO has and up converts DVDs to 4K. I have he Sony S590 which is the model right below it and does NOT have the chip. The unit is still sold on amazon and eBay and its half the price of an OPPO. I bought the 590 before I got the ST60 and now I keep eyeing the 790 at Best Buy (mine has 3 left) because I want the best pic I can get from my DVDs on this new beautiful set. Just another choice.

Oh wow. I didn't even know it used the same chip. Thanks for showing me up wink.gif. If I didn't have the PS3 I'd be tempted to get the S790 for sure. Curious to see what BR quality will be like on the PS4 or if they'll make any improvements there.

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post #6046 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

Anyone?

Try a different HDMI cable maybe? Or, at least until you can determine if the problem is the TV, AVR, or cable, bypass the AVR and go from the cable box directly to the TV. If it goes purple when plugged directly into the TV then it is either the TV, the cable, or cable box. You then need to isolate it further until you know which device is the problem. Cable company should provide another cable box at no charge, so getting that swapped out shouldn't be a big deal. If it comes down to being the TV, it could possibly be something going on with HDMI handshaking I suppose,

Again, I would probably do the following in order:

  • Different HDMI cable
  • Different HDMI input on TV
  • Bypass AVR and plug directly into TV
  • check to see if there is any setting on the cable box which might be causing it to happen
  • request replacement of cable box from cable company (or swap cable box from elsewhere in the house)
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post #6047 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by HD2Blu View Post

I'm a big fan of the Sony S790. It's had the same processing chip that the OPPO has and up converts DVDs to 4K. I have he Sony S590 which is the model right below it and does NOT have the chip. The unit is still sold on amazon and eBay and its half the price of an OPPO. I bought the 590 before I got the ST60 and now I keep eyeing the 790 at Best Buy (mine has 3 left) because I want the best pic I can get from my DVDs on this new beautiful set. Just another choice.

Upconverting DVD's to 4k will mean nothing to your situation because you don't have a 4k tv. It will upconvert DVD's to your displays top resolution which is 1080p. Which all Bluray players do, some better than others. Oppo being the best and you can't go wrong with Panny/Sony Mid/top of the line players.

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Originally Posted by Lethean View Post

6400k..Thanks wink.gif I knew I had the numbering wrong.
Oh wow. I didn't even know it used the same chip. Thanks for showing me up wink.gif. If I didn't have the PS3 I'd be tempted to get the S790 for sure. Curious to see what BR quality will be like on the PS4 or if they'll make any improvements there.

It doesn't have the same chip as the oppo,Urga already mentioned it and confirmed it. I'm waiting for the PS4, it will be faster to load for sure as for pic quality/upconversion we will wait and see. The PS3 is excellent as it is anyways.

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post #6048 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

Upconverting DVD's to 4k will mean nothing to your situation because you don't have a 4k tv. It will upconvert DVD's to your displays top resolution which is 1080p. Which all Bluray players do, some better than others. Oppo being the best and you can't go wrong with Panny/Sony Mid/top of the line players.

I know it won't up convert to 4K but to say it would do nothing to my TV is false. I had 2 HDDVD players with an amazing upconverting chip that made DVDs look like blurays in both color AND definition. That's one thing the HDDVD players did VERY well. I have been looking for a similar processing chip in a bluray player but haven't sprung for the OPPO yet. I have played only a few DVDs in my current setup (Sony S590 with the 60ST60) and man do I want to get a better processor. Moulin rouge looked like absolute crap on this setup. I scared me away from other DVDs.
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post #6049 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 10:08 AM
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I know it won't up convert to 4K but to say it would do nothing to my TV is false. I had 2 HDDVD players with an amazing upconverting chip that made DVDs look like blurays in both color AND definition. That's one thing the HDDVD players did VERY well. I have been looking for a similar processing chip in a bluray player but haven't sprung for the OPPO yet. I have played only a few DVDs in my current setup (Sony S590 with the 60ST60) and man do I want to get a better processor. Moulin rouge looked like absolute crap on this setup. I scared me away from other DVDs.[/quote]




What I meant by nothing is the conversion to 4K, I assumed that's what you meant since you wrote upcorvert DVD to 4K. Obviously you will get better upconversion , the better the chip processor is. What happened to your HDDVD players? Why won't you use them for DVD than? I guess you must have a very large DVD collection huh?

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post #6050 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

Upconverting DVD's to 4k will mean nothing to your situation because you don't have a 4k tv. It will upconvert DVD's to your displays top resolution which is 1080p. Which all Bluray players do, some better than others. Oppo being the best and you can't go wrong with Panny/Sony Mid/top of the line players.
It doesn't have the same chip as the oppo,Urga already mentioned it and confirmed it. I'm waiting for the PS4, it will be faster to load for sure as for pic quality/upconversion we will wait and see. The PS3 is excellent as it is anyways.

Yeah that's the one complaint I have with the PS3 is how slow it can be at times with loading. Other than that it is amazing. As far as a gaming console goes it's pretty great as well. I used my 360 a lot more but recently I've been finding myself on the PS3. Of course, PC gaming takes the cake smile.gif.

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post #6051 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by mondo3 View Post

anyone here who's bought an ST wished they had gone for a VT instead? I'm having a tough time deciding if the VT is worth the extra 70%

Nope.

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post #6052 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by cadett View Post

If I hadn't just dropped 3 grand on Samsung two years ago. There's no question, VT all the way. Do I think the price gap is too much? Yes. I originally thought that the ST60 was underpriced. But after spending a few months with it, I think it's priced about right at msrp & the VT's might be a little overpriced.

Have to agree with you there. I almost bought the VT60, but then after much obsessing and reading I opted for the ST60. Since this was my first plasma, I didn't want to go all out (was afraid I'd find out all the naysayers were right for some reason), especially given how "close" reviewers thought the two sets were in straight up 2d pq. I do feel the VT & ZT are a bit overpriced -- the gap is too wide between 60st60 and 60VT60 (at least at the time I bought).

The original question from the OP was does anyone wish they got the VT60 after the ST60? I kind of do in a way, given I could have bought any of the models (ST, VT, ZT). Now that I see how good the ST60 is, I'm no longer "afraid" of plasma. In a sense, now, I do wish I had gotten a VT/ZT and not been so chicken. The gap of price though makes it not as agonizing as it could be. If I had bought the VT or ZT I may have been upset at the gap in price vs performance. So, for the price, I am very happy with the ST60. I may upgrade in 2014, depending on what Panasonic 's lineup is next year. Just have to position it with the wife.. appropriately. biggrin.gif

Panasonic 60ZT60 // Panasonic 60ST60 // Samsung UN55B8500 // Mitsubishi HC6800
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post #6053 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Lethean View Post

6400k..Thanks wink.gif I knew I had the numbering wrong.

6500K is what they are supposed to be. Someone on here with the equipment to test them said they are 6400K all the way down to 25%. They have an incremental dimmer with MANY levels, I think it said 126 or something like that along with the 25, 50, 75, 100%.
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post #6054 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mondo3 View Post

anyone here who's bought an ST wished they had gone for a VT instead? I'm having a tough time deciding if the VT is worth the extra 70%

No. For the price difference, when the ST performs almost as well as the VT I'm happy. I imagine the VT may handle 3D better and might have less input lag given it's usage of the hexacore processor but really, it isn't worth the price gap. The only thing I wish is that I had the money for the 65 inch ST60 as I've already gotten used to the size of a 60 inch a lot faster than I thought I would. Either way, I'm very grateful and happy I have a new 60 inch TV rated as highly as this one.
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Originally Posted by cadett View Post

If I hadn't just dropped 3 grand on Samsung two years ago. There's no question, VT all the way. Do I think the price gap is too much? Yes. I originally thought that the ST60 was underpriced. But after spending a few months with it, I think it's priced about right at msrp & the VT's might be a little overpriced.

Out of curiosity, what is it that changed your mind on the value aspect of the ST60?

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post #6055 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob_Collins View Post

Try a different HDMI cable maybe? Or, at least until you can determine if the problem is the TV, AVR, or cable, bypass the AVR and go from the cable box directly to the TV. If it goes purple when plugged directly into the TV then it is either the TV, the cable, or cable box. You then need to isolate it further until you know which device is the problem. Cable company should provide another cable box at no charge, so getting that swapped out shouldn't be a big deal. If it comes down to being the TV, it could possibly be something going on with HDMI handshaking I suppose,

Again, I would probably do the following in order:

  • Different HDMI cable
  • Different HDMI input on TV
  • Bypass AVR and plug directly into TV
  • check to see if there is any setting on the cable box which might be causing it to happen
  • request replacement of cable box from cable company (or swap cable box from elsewhere in the house)

So it went purple this morning...first thing I tried was to turn off ONLY the TV, and then turn it back on. Viola, the screen wasn't purple. Seems like it's pretty certain the TV is at fault wouldn't you think? It's weird that if I switch devices on that same input--without turning the TV off--the screen doesn't go purple until I plug the cable box back into that particular HDMI input though. Maybe the TV just really doesn't like the cable box, is that possible?

What do you guys think? Also I don't know what handshaking is, is that fixable or do I need to go through warranty? The awesome part is that I'm 34 days since purchase from paulstv, so i have to go through warranty and can't get a replacement.
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post #6056 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 10:46 AM
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What I meant by nothing is the conversion to 4K, I assumed that's what you meant since you wrote upcorvert DVD to 4K. Obviously you will get better upconversion , the better the chip processor is. What happened to your HDDVD players? Why won't you use them for DVD than? I guess you must have a very large DVD collection huh?

Yeah, I just wanted to clear that up for other members who may read these posts. One of the players I have won't fit in my new slim cabinet, the other one keeps freezing 45 minutes into a movie and I have to reboot the player each time. Ya I have 300 DVDs still and 400 blurays. So it would be a good thing for me to have. smile.gif
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post #6057 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mondo3 View Post

anyone here who's bought an ST wished they had gone for a VT instead? I'm having a tough time deciding if the VT is worth the extra 70%

Not for the price I got my TC-P60ST-60 for (sub $980, brand new from Magnolia/BB without any trade-in or credit from extended warranty, just a straight up purchase). I couldn't see the price difference for the VT or even the small Samsung F8500 at that price.

It is my second plasma, 3rd Panasonic TV in my purchase history, and the picture after 130 hours of the D-Nice slides and simply tweaking the main picture settings (haven't done the WB or advanced Gamma stuff) is just awesome!! I will be using ChromaPure to run a calibration on it myself once I get to the 300 hour mark, but I am really enjoying it so far (aside from a few nit-picky things which have to do with operation and not with picture so far).
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post #6058 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Lethean View Post

No. For the price difference, when the ST performs almost as well as the VT I'm happy. I imagine the VT may handle 3D better and might have less input lag given it's usage of the hexacore processor but really, it isn't worth the price gap. The only thing I wish is that I had the money for the 65 inch ST60 as I've already gotten used to the size of a 60 inch a lot faster than I thought I would. Either way, I'm very grateful and happy I have a new 60 inch TV rated as highly as this one.
Out of curiosity, what is it that changed your mind on the value aspect of the ST60?

Sub par 3D
Gaming Lag is high
Image retention(on my set)
Significant line bleed(noticed a few times during normal viewing)

This is an excellent set, just not as value packed as initially thought. The gaming lag & IR is why it takes a hit imo.

My Panasonic 60ST60 Settings

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post #6059 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

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Originally Posted by Bob_Collins View Post

Try a different HDMI cable maybe? Or, at least until you can determine if the problem is the TV, AVR, or cable, bypass the AVR and go from the cable box directly to the TV. If it goes purple when plugged directly into the TV then it is either the TV, the cable, or cable box. You then need to isolate it further until you know which device is the problem. Cable company should provide another cable box at no charge, so getting that swapped out shouldn't be a big deal. If it comes down to being the TV, it could possibly be something going on with HDMI handshaking I suppose,

Again, I would probably do the following in order:

  • Different HDMI cable
  • Different HDMI input on TV
  • Bypass AVR and plug directly into TV
  • check to see if there is any setting on the cable box which might be causing it to happen
  • request replacement of cable box from cable company (or swap cable box from elsewhere in the house)

So it went purple this morning...first thing I tried was to turn off ONLY the TV, and then turn it back on. Viola, the screen wasn't purple. Seems like it's pretty certain the TV is at fault wouldn't you think? It's weird that if I switch devices on that same input--without turning the TV off--the screen doesn't go purple until I plug the cable box back into that particular HDMI input though. Maybe the TV just really doesn't like the cable box, is that possible?

What do you guys think? Also I don't know what handshaking is, is that fixable or do I need to go through warranty? The awesome part is that I'm 34 days since purchase from paulstv, so i have to go through warranty and can't get a replacement.
HDMI HDCP (copy protection) is required by the movie and TV industry. The display device must constantly check to be sure that HDCP requirements are being met. Each of those checks is called a handshake, and with each and every handshake there is the potential that something can go wrong anywhere in the signal path from the source (cable box or Blu-ray player for instance) to the display including the HDMI cables themselves.

You've gotten basically the same "thoughts" or "suggestions" from me and from Bob_Collins. The first thing you need to do is learn what a handshake is, and how it works.

Actually there is another first thing you need to know. HDMI is not a hot swappable connection. The two devices that are connected by a HDMI cable should be OFF before you change HDMI connections.

Again, based on what you have described I think your cable box is more suspicious than your TV, but it may just be your setup which includes the settings that you're using in your cable box and your TV.

Here is an explanation from Bob Pariseau about HDMI handshakes. He is discussing a setup that includes a Denon AVR and an OPPO Blu-ray player, but the handshake explanation applies to any setup. The point to remember is that it's much more likely that your problem is in your setup than that it's a defective TV.
Quote:
HDMI handshakes will happen multiple times as you try to start a movie -- as the format of the audio and video content changes between previews, menus, warning screens, and the feature film itself. You can't make the handshakes go away -- it's just the way HDMI works, and HDMI copy protection is finicky about that. The minimum time for an HDMI handshake is about 2 seconds due to delays built into the protocol to allow the devices at both ends of the cable to get their act together. So if your handshakes are taking longer than 2 seconds you can kind of count the number of retries that are happening. For example, if you are seeing 6 second handshakes you know you are seeing the original try plus two additional retries. The goal is to get rid of the retries.

The Shocking Pink video is a type of handshake failure where the devices at either end of the cable get confused about whether RGB or YCbCr video data format is being sent. Setting an explicit output data format is the best way to minimize that chance. Handshake failures -- particularly ones where HDMI HDCP (copy protection) is unhappy -- result in "muted" video output while the retry takes place. Depending on the hardware the video will be muted to black or -- for some devices -- to a green screen. Again, this is just a symptom that handshake retries are happening.

And to repeat again, HDMI is an end to end protocol. So things that might look like confusion between the OPPO and the Denon *MIGHT* actually be due to settings in the Display which complicate the handshake. Sometimes it's purely a matter of trying stuff to see what makes a difference.
--Bob

It would be helpful to know if your HDMI cables are "high speed" and how long they are as well as what gage (AWG).

Please don't swap HDMI cables with the power on. wink.gif

Calibration Resources:

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post #6060 of 12904 Old 06-11-2013, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by cadett View Post

Sub par 3D
Gaming Lag is high
Image retention(on my set)
Significant line bleed(noticed a few times during normal viewing)

This is an excellent set, just not as value packed as initially thought. The gaming lag & IR is why it takes a hit imo.

IR isn't all sets. No matter what I've had on my screen and how long it's been there I've seen zero IR from day one. I've had static images on the screen for 10 minutes or more at a time and have played quite a few hours of games.
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