Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 244 - AVS Forum
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post #7291 of 12981 Old 08-01-2013, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fester99 View Post

That is what i would recommend for the PS3 as well.
setting the ps3 for full crushes the blacks.
1080p/24 Hz could be on automatic, depends on your preference on motion in movies i have it on auto, works fine.

How so if both the tv and ps3 are set up to handle full range?
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post #7292 of 12981 Old 08-01-2013, 11:54 PM
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If you do Full instead of limited, it only affects games and not Blu-ray (when Blu-ray output is Y/Pb/Pr) . So you will have to change the setting back and forth and/or have different calibration settings for games and movies.

And if you run the PS3 through a receiver with other devices, then it won't match the output of the other devices and require different picture settings.

And as long as you calibrate the black/white levels properly, there should be no visual difference in the end.

Most people leave it at Limited, with Super-White set to on for Y/Pb/Pr, and then can use the same TV picture settings for everything.

Following up on this...

My particular receiver, from about 6 years ago, doesn't like BTB/WTW. After these posts today, I came home and checked my PS3 on my ST60, going straight to the TV. I'll try keeping it this way for a while, so I am using a Gefen splitter to send one HDMI cable to the TV for video, and one to the receiver for audio.

Turning RGB to FULL still clips the signal outside of 16-235, but turning on Y/Pb/Pr Super-White sends through BTB/WTW (checking with Disney WOW disc). This is with the TV set to Non-Standard RGB range. So it looks like the Y/Pb/Pr won't send Superwhite BTB/WTW unless RGB is on Full as well, at least with my informal tests.

With these settings, calibration mp4s played from the XMB still don't pass BTB/WTW but that is probably just a playback limitation. But the Brightness/Black setting stayed the same, and checking the video settings menu in COD, it appeared to be the same as normal as well. So XMB/games can keep the same brightness/contrast settings with no issues.

When the whites are clipped on my setup, I see delineation up to about 233, then it clips. Passing WTW (verified on Disney WOW disc), I get distinct bars up to nearly +6% for white at Contrast 80, and raising it to 100 I still can see differentiated checkers up to +2 over 235. I am a little worried I won't get Blu-rays as bright whites as the TV can display after doing this, but in a few video clips I couldn't notice a difference.

So it looks like this could work, depending on the equipment in the chain (again, my receiver was crushing BTB/WTW, which I think was a known issue back when I got it) as long as you can properly test to make sure there are no side effects or issues created by it.


On a different note, I went into my Comcast DVR (RNG200N) setup menu, and it had switched from Pass-Through back to 1080p. I noticed what might be some new menu options (maybe a new firmware update -- menu says version 3.5). Turning pass-through back to on, there are settings to tell it what video signal formats the TV accepts, set audio sync delay, and even a sharpening setting. The sharpening has settings of 1-5, default of 3. I turned it to 1, and up close there's less sharpening of compression artifacts around text on CNN/local news lettering. There's also an option for Dolby Volume, which I left at OFF, since I assume it's for volume dynamic range compression.
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post #7293 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snidely View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethean View Post

The update made a noticeable difference with 3D performance. At first I was thinking there was barely any improvement, then I realized I had game mode on. I wonder if Cnet updated their review to reflect the improvements.

I really want to wall mount this thing. Is it a pretty big risk running the tv power chord in the wall and plugging it in to a surge protector on the outside of the wall? The molding you can buy looks tacky and a 100 dollar power bridge is beyond my budget (and skill level I'm sure). Also, do the monoprice mounts come with the right screws?
How could it be a big risk running a heavyish cord inside a wall for a few feet? If you are really worried, get a module to put between the cord and where it pugs into the wall that will trip at a low amperage - say 10 amps. That will trip way before a std. 15 or 20 amp circuit breaker.
I ran my 6 ft. 14AWG extension cord inside the wall. In practice, a 16awg cord would be adequate. You'd be running less than 5 amps to run the panel. I simply plugged it into a Monoprice "midlevel" surge protector. Oh - the Monoprice wall bracket we had from 5 years ago came w. the right screws. Since this screen (like all newer panels) are much thinner so we had to get shorter bolts. Diameter was the same. I assume they now come with shorter length bolts. They have exc. support via chat where you can ask such questions. We have the kind that tilts up,down and side to side. Our old Panny was 50". Brackets fit our 60" perfectly.
Thanks for info on 3d. Now we'll need to find something in 3d to watch - before 3d becomes extinct.
It's against the law, at least in the SF Bay Area. This is an inexpensive source of legal and safe solutions.

http://www.powerbridgesolution.com/
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post #7294 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 05:36 AM
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I have the 60st60 that is used on a limited basis, basically a few hours per weekend only.
Last night the set worked fine.
About 2 weeks ago I had no picture from Cablevision box. After troubleshooting I switched switched HDMI wire from cable box to dvd and that solved the problem. I use the monoprice redmere cables. This morning I turned on the set and after about 5 seconds I see the following error message:

Diagnostic
HDCP Failure
HDMI port is disabled

The screen then goes black.

I completely change the cable again to non REDMERE and to another port , the picture comes back on then the message comes back on and the screen goes black again.
I checked for software updates see there is one and update the software. The picture came back on and seems to be ok.

Any one else have this problem or have any suggestions for me?

Thanks
Rich
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post #7295 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lungs414 View Post

I have the 60st60 that is used on a limited basis, basically a few hours per weekend only.
Last night the set worked fine.
About 2 weeks ago I had no picture from Cablevision box. After troubleshooting I switched switched HDMI wire from cable box to dvd and that solved the problem. I use the monoprice redmere cables. This morning I turned on the set and after about 5 seconds I see the following error message:

Diagnostic
HDCP Failure
HDMI port is disabled

The screen then goes black.

I completely change the cable again to non REDMERE and to another port , the picture comes back on then the message comes back on and the screen goes black again.
I checked for software updates see there is one and update the software. The picture came back on and seems to be ok.

Any one else have this problem or have any suggestions for me?

Thanks
Rich

Most likely a handshake issue.

Turn off everything, and just to be thorough, unplug them from the power. Leave them unplugged for about 20 seconds, then plug them back in. Next turn on the TV first, wait for the banner at the top of the screen to appear, then turn on the device you want to watch. I've found when I had a handshake issue this process (I haven't had to pull the power cords yet) usually results in things working properly.

One other thing to try would be to try a different HDMI input on the TV if the above doesn't clear it for you.
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post #7296 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 06:31 AM
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Thanks for suggestions. I did try different inputs also. That didn't fix anything. Its funny because I have used the set more for the 100 hours of slides than actual viewing. The software update did something because now it works, so next time I'll try your suggestions. What does "handshake" mean?

Anyone else ever see this "Diagnostic" error?

Thanks for help
Rich
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post #7297 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

It's against the law, at least in the SF Bay Area. This is an inexpensive source of legal and safe solutions.
http://www.powerbridgesolution.com/
That is a cheep "to code" solution, or so it says. If you have access it is easier just to run a new circuit.
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post #7298 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 08:13 AM
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In regards to the wiring in wall, just because a solution works doesn't make it correct. A circuit breaker for a living room outlet generally has more than one receptacle on the circuit. It protects the entire circuit ( all receptacles or lights that it provides power to.). You have to take into consideration the codes in place because rest assured every insurance company will in the event of a claim for some reason. I know it seems ridiculous but they will look for ways to not pay. Sometimes "fixes" can become problems down the road.
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post #7299 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by gbmannc View Post

When 24fps is left on from the player, there is still soap opera effect even with motion smoothing turned off.

Thank for the info.

Matt
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post #7300 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 08:45 AM
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Got my P50ST60 and S790 yesterday and first impressions are mostly positive.

Built quality: i use stand and right side hangs about 5mm lower, i think i did proper job
when installing it. horizontal parts of the frame are slightly convex, but "inside tolerance", just a few mm.
other than that it looks good.

reflection: almost unnoticeable and i have semi light room

setting up, as easy as you could imagine

buzzing: yes it is there and i think i'm gonna ask mechanic for a visit, buzzing is steady and sounds
more like a power supply buzz than a plasma display related

flickering: way less than i excepted

PQ: excellent, with "true cinema" colors are really good out of the box and don't need adjustment before
i get used to plasma picture and get to know what to adjust, not perfect but very good

after random channel flipping i watched "Blade runner fc" and "Bullit", both looked good but again
nothing special (except some Blade runners flying scenes).

picture is sligthly too dark but i will adjust that after i get my Disney WOW disc, until then i'm gonna go with
these settings.

sounds are actually pretty good, my amp accepts only rca so i use headphone jack to connect tv
to my amp. no lip sync problems or anything.

and about Sony S790, it amazes how bad built quality actually is with modern plastic covers and cheapest
tray systems. it does it's job and produces excellent PQ but it's noisy (can't wait problems with fan) and
clumsy. it works fine though...

i understand that i paid less money for tv and br-player than my Copland cd-player was but, darn,
what a difference in quality. and i'm seriously in doubt that more exspensive Panas and Sonys have
same built quality as their cheaper substitutes.

after all, if nothing comes up i'm happy with what i bought.

smile.gif
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post #7301 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lungs414 View Post

. What does "handshake" mean?

Thanks for help
Rich

With HDCP (HD copy protection~), there has to be a handshake or a confirmation between source/display that there are no issues with the security of the signal. If the source thinks something has been compromised, then it won't output the signal.
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post #7302 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 09:32 AM
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sounds are actually pretty good, my amp accepts only rca so i use headphone jack to connect tv
to my amp. no lip sync problems or anything.

There is an analog headphone out on this tv? Where is that located?

thanks
dannov likes this.
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post #7303 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

It's against the law, at least in the SF Bay Area. This is an inexpensive source of legal and safe solutions.
http://www.powerbridgesolution.com/
That is a cheep "to code" solution, or so it says. If you have access it is easier just to run a new circuit.
In our area running a new circuit requires a licensed electrification and a permit, and several hundred dollars. eek.gif
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post #7304 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by samijubal View Post

No tax at Amazon for most people. I've seen a fair amount of people who were unhappy in their dealings with Pauls, that's very rare at Amazon.

I got my 65ST60 at Paul's and the delivery was no problem. I have had it 3 weeks now and the picture looks great. I would have had to pay tax with Amazon.

Matt
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post #7305 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by gbmannc View Post

How so if both the tv and ps3 are set up to handle full range?
I guess it would not in that instance, but if you are using multiple sources through an av receiver then you have to play the settings game every time you switch sources too.

| Panasonic TC-P60ST60 | Pioneer Elite SC-81 | Sony PlayStation 3 | Sony PlayStation 4 | DirecTV HR44 Genie |
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post #7306 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by menez View Post

There is an analog headphone out on this tv? Where is that located?

thanks

Next to SD-card slot

http://img1.lesnumeriques.com/test/77/7740/panasonic-st60-connectique-g.jpg


(i have P50ST60Y)
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post #7307 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

It's against the law, at least in the SF Bay Area. This is an inexpensive source of legal and safe solutions.

http://www.powerbridgesolution.com/

It looks like (hard to tell) their solution is to use Romex cable. That hasn't been used in new homes for 50-60 years. Maybe its still legal. Our 90 y.o. home had it. Just because something is not "legal" doesn't mean it's not safe. Codes have to be written to OVER-compensate. In many areas using extension cords over 6 feet aren't "legal". Do you have one longer? I am in the Bay Area and see no harm. I would say what I did is a lot safe then dangling an extension cord on the outside of the wall which would be legal.
What we had to do in Miami where the wall the panel is hung upon is solid -is run all the wires inside a finished "wire cover" that fastened on the surface of the wall. Don't see how that is safer than inside the wall.
I know licensed electricians have to abide by all the vagaries of the law.
All I wanted to do is cutout 2 smallish openings, top and bottom, and feed all the wires and cables through them.
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post #7308 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

In our area running a new circuit requires a licensed electrification and a permit, and several hundred dollars. eek.gif
I assume a "professional", like Chris, would have to go through all the red tape to perform an installation to cover his behind. Permits and all. No homeowner is going to go thru those unnecessary steps. A new circuit for a 400 watt item makes no sense. To do what the "code" requires, you would have to rip the wall.
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post #7309 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 03:35 PM
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where do u get it? or how? Thank you!
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post #7310 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by snidely View Post

Romex cable. That hasn't been used in new homes for 50-60 years. Maybe its still legal. Our 90 y.o. home had it.

Huh? Romex is the Xerox of wiring; it's a name brand than has been co-opted to describe any NM cable. It's ubiquitous in new construction.
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post #7311 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

That is a cheep "to code" solution, or so it says. If you have access it is easier just to run a new circuit.

Powerbridge is code compliant. No quotes needed. The wiring it uses is the same thing you'd use to run the new circuit you suggest.

Is a new or extended run preferable? Sure. Powerbridge is just another option.
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post #7312 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snidely View Post

It looks like (hard to tell) their solution is to use Romex cable. That hasn't been used in new homes for 50-60 years. Maybe its still legal. Our 90 y.o. home had it.

I think you're referring to knob and tube wiring as being no longer used in homes. Romex is not what you decscibe.
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Just because something is not "legal" doesn't mean it's not safe. Codes have to be written to OVER-compensate. In many areas using extension cords over 6 feet aren't "legal". Do you have one longer? I am in the Bay Area and see no harm. I would say what I did is a lot safe then dangling an extension cord on the outside of the wall which would be legal.

Extension cords used in a permanent setting, such as a tv or appliance, are not code compliant. They're meant to be temporary. There are reasons for this, not simply vagaries, as you suggest.
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Originally Posted by snidely View Post

What we had to do in Miami where the wall the panel is hung upon is solid -is run all the wires inside a finished "wire cover" that fastened on the surface of the wall. Don't see how that is safer than inside the wall.
I know licensed electricians have to abide by all the vagaries of the law.
All I wanted to do is cutout 2 smallish openings, top and bottom, and feed all the wires and cables through them.

The reason it's in violation of code is because all wiring that is in-wall should be permanent (and rated). Extension cords or flexible/appliance cords are not permanent and therefore should not be in a wall cavity. This is why wiremold is acceptable - it's not in the wall cavity.

You're free to run the wires behind the wall. That's your choice. Just be aware it's not code compliant. One good reason to consider code compliance is insurance.
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post #7313 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethean View Post

The update made a noticeable difference with 3D performance. At first I was thinking there was barely any improvement, then I realized I had game mode on. I wonder if Cnet updated their review to reflect the improvements.

I really want to wall mount this thing. Is it a pretty big risk running the tv power chord in the wall and plugging it in to a surge protector on the outside of the wall? The molding you can buy looks tacky and a 100 dollar power bridge is beyond my budget (and skill level I'm sure). Also, do the monoprice mounts come with the right screws?

If you can wall mount a tv, you can install a powerbridge, they're pretty straightforward in that regard. Other manufacturers produce similar products if cost is a concern (Monoprice sells one for under 50).
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post #7314 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 06:03 PM
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What's up y'all? Currently own Pioneer 6010fd, 151fd, and just ordered a panasonic 60st60. Hope it doesn't disappoint.
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post #7315 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA View Post

I think you're referring to knob and tube wiring as being no longer used in homes. Romex is not what you decscibe.
I'll play the age card! I was thinking of knob and tube!

Extension cords used in a permanent setting, such as a tv or appliance, are not code compliant. They're meant to be temporary. There are reasons for this, not simply vagaries, as you suggest.
I once figured out you almost need an electrical permit to change a light bulb. I think common sense rules. A heavy duty extension cord in a wall doesn't get tripped over or frayed like an extension cord along a baseboard.

The reason it's in violation of code is because all wiring that is in-wall should be permanent (and rated). Extension cords or flexible/appliance cords are not permanent and therefore should not be in a wall cavity. This is why wiremold is acceptable - it's not in the wall cavity.
My heavy duty extension cord in the wall is permanent and rated.

You're free to run the wires behind the wall. That's your choice. Just be aware it's not code compliant. One good reason to consider code compliance is insurance.
Technically, you are right. I am sure you could go into any dwelling and find at least some, technical, violations. That doesn't mean they are unsafe.
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post #7316 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snidely View Post

I once figured out you almost need an electrical permit to change a light bulb. I think common sense rules.

What does what I said have to do with permits? That's an issue between you and your municipality. I referred to NEC (and CEC) code.
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Originally Posted by snidely View Post

A heavy duty extension cord in a wall doesn't get tripped over or frayed like an extension cord along a baseboard.

My heavy duty extension cord in the wall is permanent and rated.

There is not an extension cord manufactured that is rated for in-wall use in the United States or Canada.
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Technically, you are right. I am sure you could go into any dwelling and find at least some, technical, violations. That doesn't mean they are unsafe.

So because dwellings might have code violations, it's a way to justify creating more? Like I said, it's your choice, but just because you think it's not a big deal or safe, doesn't make it compliant. The person who asked the question should know the facts.
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post #7317 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 07:23 PM
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If you can wall mount a tv, you can install a powerbridge, they're pretty straightforward in that regard.

And if someone can install a Powerbridge, he can probably just install a clock receptacle behind the TV (Leviton 688w or 688i) then run a section of Romex directly to the nearest wall receptacle circuit under the house and tap off that. It's super simple. Or just make your own power bridge setup similar to the retail version (using a Leviton 4937 male receptacle on the bottom and the 688w behind the TV and a few feet of 12/2WG Romex).

BTW Snidely, Romex is used in all of North America and has been for decades (starting in the late 50's or early 60's i believe). I recently supplied several thousand feet of Romex to a customer who's building a Five Million Dollar custom home on the Hermosa Beach Strand. I've supplied millions of feet during my long career in the electrical supply industry wink.gif

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post #7318 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 07:51 PM
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And if someone can install a Powerbridge, he can probably just install a clock receptacle behind the TV (Leviton 688w or 688i) then run a section of Romex directly to the nearest wall receptacle circuit under the house and tap off that. It's super simple. Or just make your own power bridge setup similar to the retail version (using a Leviton 4937 male receptacle on the bottom and the 688w behind the TV and a few feet of 12/2WG Romex).

And probably is the dividing line for many people. wink.gif

Don't get me wrong, extending an existing circuit isn't too tall of an order (it's the better solution, really). However, it does require some basic electrical knowledge and familiarity with the existing wiring. Powerbridge doesn't even require that much.
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post #7319 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by AKA View Post

And probably is the dividing line for many people. wink.gif

Don't get me wrong, extending an existing circuit isn't too tall of an order (it's the better solution, really). However, it does require some basic electrical knowledge and familiarity with the existing wiring. Powerbridge doesn't even require that much.

IMHO, if you are going to go through the trouble of cutting holes in your drywall and running Romex for the Powerbridge, you might as well take the extra hour or two to learn about just adding another outlet off of a preexisting outlet below it--a much better looking and more elegant solution.

Actually, I was about to get the Powerbridge but did this instead just yesterday, with very little electrical knowledge to begin with. I think the hardest part was figuring out how to tell if the preexisting outlet junction box was big enough to accept two more wires, but even that wasn't difficult. This solution is much cheaper (~$10) vs. Powerbridge (~$50+) and looks MUCH better.

I'd say the only reason to get the Powebridge is if you'd have to go across studs horizontally which would be a pain.
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post #7320 of 12981 Old 08-02-2013, 09:06 PM
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IMHO, if you are going to go through the trouble of cutting holes in your drywall and running Romex for the Powerbridge, you might as well take the extra hour or two to learn about just adding another outlet off of a preexisting outlet below it--a much better looking and more elegant solution.

Actually, I was about to get the Powerbridge but did this instead just yesterday, with very little electrical knowledge to begin with. I think the hardest part was figuring out how to tell if the preexisting outlet junction box was big enough to accept two more wires, but even that wasn't difficult. This solution is much cheaper (~$10) vs. Powerbridge (~$50+) and looks MUCH better.

I'd say the only reason to get the Powebridge is if you'd have to go across studs horizontally which would be a pain.

Which is why I said running the new receptacle was the better solution. That said, having more code compliant options isn't a bad thing.
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