Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 259 - AVS Forum
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post #7741 of 13079 Old 08-20-2013, 11:24 AM
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Hey guys.....Ive had my 55st60 now for a few weeks......prep slides...D-Nice settings...etc...all done. Pic looks great. The only time its not at its best is during the day. I have four big windows to the right and when its
bright out....I get alot of reflection and pic seems dull and dark. Anyways....not a big deal.....seeing how during the day we never use the TV because we are at work .

That being said....Im pretty happy with the st60....in the evening...watching a ripped mkv movie or a blu ray....I dont think you can ask for a better picture. I dont think I can imagine what a better one would look like.

Okay now for a dumb question.........I was messing with 3d (have lastes update) .....Im trying to play 3d mkv file thru my asus oplay device which is connected to the TV via HDMI. Side by side 3d doesnt fill the screen ..actually just a square box in middle of screen when I activate 3d. When I get a top and bottom 3d feed.....it fills the screen but I just cant get the picture right. I have settings punched in correctly but the pic looks like double vision...and blurry. I tried last nite to mess with all the settings and could never get it right

I suspect it may be just the oplay and the mkv file thats the issue. Im planning on getting a 3d blu ray....(Avatar?) and trying it thru my panasonic 210 player and see if it still does the same thing.

I know 3d is a gimmick but I just wanted to try to see if it worked.....free glasses and all....

Anyway ....is anyone having issues with 3d?
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post #7742 of 13079 Old 08-20-2013, 11:28 AM
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To any owner of the st60, would you recommend this tv for online gaming? Or is it really bad?


Its either the st60 or the vt60 for me! Depends on how burn in and IR is, but input lag is HUGR for me. And does anyone know if the vt60 is worth the extra $1000? I could buy a new tv for that much money!

Im just really stuck lol, im so worried about IR and burn in from video games and movies that i may even be considering LED tv's because of this

Really confused what to do frown.gif
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post #7743 of 13079 Old 08-20-2013, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by xxdavid19xx View Post

To any owner of the st60, would you recommend this tv for online gaming? Or is it really bad?


Its either the st60 or the vt60 for me! Depends on how burn in and IR is, but input lag is HUGR for me. And does anyone know if the vt60 is worth the extra $1000? I could buy a new tv for that much money!

Im just really stuck lol, im so worried about IR and burn in from video games and movies that i may even be considering LED tv's because of this

Really confused what to do frown.gif

Do you have static IP on your console, forwarding ports and with an Open NAT for the best connection? Do you play with your controller plugged in instead of wireless?

There's a very slight bit more of input lat on this TV than other TVs, but your online connection is much more important (and if you're really serious, you cut out the lag in the wireless controller as well by going wired).

Some games will be more likely to cause IR/burn in than others. I have no issues with COD, since the hud is not overly bright, and there's enough dying and matches are short enough for the HUD to not be on for too long. Other games could be worse for the TV.
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post #7744 of 13079 Old 08-20-2013, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

OK. smile.gif

I feel like some of my points may be coming off rude to some of you, or maybe not everyone has seen my previous posts and is not caught up with my full burn in story. I'll try to sum up my points concisely below:

#1 - If IR is truly a compounded image (and not a continuous image), then tell me if my set has 500 total hours and 200 hours of that total is watching a channel with the same static logo, and I have burn in...then how that is any different than a set with 1,000 total hours with 200 hours of the same logo? If IR/burn in is caused by compounding static images, then what you are saying is that no matter how many hours a TV has in total or how continuous any static images are, 200 hours of watching any static logo during any of the total hours of the set will create burn in. That's completely different than the definition of IR/burn in I have ever read, which is that as long as you follow up static-imaging programming with some non static-imaging programming of the same duration, you should be good to go. Compounded theory is in fact saying there is a finite number of hours ANY static image can persist on a screen until it burns in, and that cannot be true or nobody would buy these sets. In my example I just decided that number to be 200 arbitrarily.

#2 - I've said numerous times I've noticed slight IR on my set after watching games, but use the slides until it completely disappears. There is no doubt in my mind the burn in I have now came from one single game. Even if there is a compounding effect going on, it wasn't obvious to the naked eye before this particular instance.

#3 I have no idea how many hours my set actually has on it, 500 was a guess. I also have no idea how many games I've watched on it, 100 is a guess. So let's figure out that math...I got the TV on 5/10 and the first week was 100 hours and all slides. So now I've had it 3 months, I'd say maybe 5 hours of viewing per day, that's 90 x 5 = 450 hours. So probably 550-600 hours total. Also I looked and there have been 75 games since I bought this TV. I've probably watched 75% of them (compounded), so 3 hours a game times 75 times 75% is ~170 hours. Roughly a little less than 1/3rd of the set's life up until this point has included the baseball game's logo that caused the IR in question. Going back to point #1, I've obviously watched more than double the hours of static programming with non-static programming (over three times, in fact)...which all along I believed to be the *fix* to avoiding IR.
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post #7745 of 13079 Old 08-20-2013, 01:01 PM
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I did set up a static ip on my xbox, i also do play with a wired controller. But i do not play with an open nat

The st60 looks like an amazing tv, and if it is as good for gaming as the vt60. Or a very slight difference then the st60 is the tv for me! The price of it is amazing

I just keep reading everywhere that it has bad lag, and i play games alot on my CRT tv that has next to no lag. And everywhere i read keeps saying how the st60 is no good for online gaming (especially if your used to a CRT) Is that realy true?

Honestly the only reason i want the vt60 over the St60 is lag, and a little better colours. But if the st60 has good input lag then there is no way ill spend another $1000 for the vt60


Is the 75ms input lag that this tv have really noticable to something with 45-50ms like a VT60?


What about LED vs Plasma? I know i have so many questions, just everywhere i read says for my room its better to have a plasma. But how about all this IR and burn in? Is that still an issue? Because i always watch the same channels, and i dont want a logo burnt into my screen from watching too much discovery lol

Thanks so much!
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post #7746 of 13079 Old 08-20-2013, 01:12 PM
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The lag might be noticeable on older platforming games and the like, especially if the TV is doing processing to convert to HD. But for HD games, it's only an extra 30ms or so, and only you can be the judge of whether it's a deal breaker.

Can you get the ST60 at a place with a good exchange/return policy? Take your 14~30 days to test it out, and if you're not happy with it, upgrade to the VT...?
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post #7747 of 13079 Old 08-20-2013, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Congrats on the remote choice wink.gif

If you're not aware of it there is a URC R40 thread: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1384297/official-urc-r40-thread

And another on Remote Central: http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-master/thread.cgi?11690

FWIW, if you wedge the R40 in your recliner the keys will remain lit up till the batteries die. They only go dark AFTER your last button press like other lighted remotes do, but they all remain lit as long as i hold any button down (i just tested it for a few minutes).


From the URC website:
Quote:
All buttons light up for use in dimly lit rooms. And it has a Sofa Mode (if a button is pressed too long—like when it’s beneath a sofa cushion—My Favorite Remote powers down to prevent accidental battery drain. It also has a low battery warning feature.

What aren't I understanding here Randy? Thanks. And thanks for the links! smile.gif
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post #7748 of 13079 Old 08-20-2013, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Silvio View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy60 View Post

I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. It has been great reading about this TV and your experiences with it. I know HTwaits has a list of calibrators in his signature, but has anyone found a good calibrator in the Montreal area? One that you have hired and are happy with?

Michael Chen lives in Calgary and does road trips. He has mentioned October/November and I am on his mailing list. http://www.tlvexp.ca/events/

He had calibrated my NEC plasma many years ago and I was satisfied with the results and his explanations.
I agree. Michael Chen has a very good reputation here at AVS, and he teaches calibration. smile.gif

Here is the email address that I have for Michael.

furrypig01@yahoo.com
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post #7749 of 13079 Old 08-20-2013, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

I feel like some of my points may be coming off rude to some of you, or maybe not everyone has seen my previous posts and is not caught up with my full burn in story. I'll try to sum up my points concisely below:
The only thing I can say (as I did in my previous post) is what you have is more likely to be uneven wear than it is to be IR. But then again, it's also equally as likely to be burn-in. I haven't ruled out uneven wear, though. You can probably still counteract it with things that I mentioned.

If it's burn-in, I really don't know what to say. My old set has burn-in/uneven wear, and we just have to live with it. I don't think anybody notices it but me though lol.
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post #7750 of 13079 Old 08-20-2013, 04:21 PM
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Amazon recently delivered a 60" ST60 after a six week wait. It was worth it. I can't find any flaws in the picture and both the d-nice and cnet settings produce windowlike pictures. So far, my only disappointment is that ST60s do not support the ip wake-up-on-LAN command. That means that neither the Panasonic remote app or Roomie Remote can power on the TV. In another forum I discovered that VT60s do power on from ip, so it may simply be a software issue. If so. I hope the folks at Panasonic find a way to include this command in a software update.
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post #7751 of 13079 Old 08-20-2013, 04:31 PM
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The only thing I can say (as I did in my previous post) is what you have is more likely to be uneven wear than it is to be IR. But then again, it's also equally as likely to be burn-in. I haven't ruled out uneven wear, though. You can probably still counteract it with things that I mentioned.

If it's burn-in, I really don't know what to say. My old set has burn-in/uneven wear, and we just have to live with it. I don't think anybody notices it but me though lol.

I appreciate the response, and the suggestion on uneven wear. I am a little scared to do it, just because I wonder if the inverted colors would actually make it wear back to even with the other panels? I don't know if I believe it wouldn't work, but I'm also not convinced it would yet either smile.gif

At any rate I still don't believe compounded viewing causes IR. That would mean every set has a maximum amount of hours it can view any image over any duration of time (not just continuously) before that image burns into the screen. There are far too many static images on TV channels in general such that a lot more people would have burn in if that were a fact.
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post #7752 of 13079 Old 08-20-2013, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Gil Gamesh View Post

Amazon recently delivered a 60" ST60 after a six week wait. It was worth it. I can't find any flaws in the picture and both the d-nice and cnet settings produce windowlike pictures. So far, my only disappointment is that ST60s do not support the ip wake-up-on-LAN command. That means that neither the Panasonic remote app or Roomie Remote can power on the TV. In another forum I discovered that VT60s do power on from ip, so it may simply be a software issue. If so. I hope the folks at Panasonic find a way to include this command in a software update.

Myself, for my 50ST60, I use D-Nice's Custon settings for sports & live events as I love the sharp bright picture. But for movies & shows, I love the softer, more cinematic picture of CNET's Cinema settings. smile.gif
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post #7753 of 13079 Old 08-20-2013, 04:47 PM
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At any rate I still don't believe compounded viewing causes IR.

Well you should believe because thats precisely what happened with my GT50.
News broadcast, everynight for 45 minutes, punctuated by ad breaks so there was never more than 10 consecutive minutes where the logo was held onscreen.
It left a dark after-image of the white logo on my screen for months. But it did go, hence the reason I'll always refer to it as IR and not 'burn-in'. There is a distinction that some people here are failing to make.
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post #7754 of 13079 Old 08-20-2013, 05:02 PM
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At any rate I still don't believe compounded viewing causes IR.

If you watch enough TV to make IR go away it doesn't come back any easier in my experience.

I've played Final Fantasy enough on my old TV to see where the ATB gauge is after long sessions and if I don't watch enough other material to make it go away between gaming I can see it get more pronounced with subsequent game sessions but once it's gone from normal TV viewing it doesn't come back any easier or get any worse than it was after playing the game more.
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post #7755 of 13079 Old 08-20-2013, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post


At any rate I still don't believe compounded viewing causes IR.

If you watch enough TV to make IR go away it doesn't come back any easier in my experience.

I've played Final Fantasy enough on my old TV to see where the ATB gauge is after long sessions and if I don't watch enough other material to make it go away between gaming I can see it get more pronounced with subsequent game sessions but once it's gone from normal TV viewing it doesn't come back any easier or get any worse than it was after playing the game more.

Wow. Again, I wouldn't have purchased had I known this. I'm a big Rangers fan and I want to watch their games. If I'm supposed to stop watching or else get burn in, and if I had enough money, I'd trash this TV and move on. What an effing joke IMO
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post #7756 of 13079 Old 08-20-2013, 10:14 PM
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Wow. Again, I wouldn't have purchased had I known this. I'm a big Rangers fan and I want to watch their games. If I'm supposed to stop watching or else get burn in, and if I had enough money, I'd trash this TV and move on. What an effing joke IMO

How much do you guys think someone would be willing to pay for a 60" model with burn in? I am highly considering unloading this thing and moving on to a Vizio 65" LED.
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post #7757 of 13079 Old 08-20-2013, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

Wow. Again, I wouldn't have purchased had I known this. I'm a big Rangers fan and I want to watch their games. If I'm supposed to stop watching or else get burn in, and if I had enough money, I'd trash this TV and move on. What an effing joke IMO

How much do you guys think someone would be willing to pay for a 60" model with burn in? I am highly considering unloading this thing and moving on to a Vizio 65" LED.
If you want to sell your set then it might be a good idea to follow the advise you've gotten here about how to get rid of stubborn IR. Then it might also help to stop calling what you see burn-in. It's just a suggestion. smile.gif

If you lived near the San Francisco Bay Area, I would recommend my son to you as a buyer. He's an engineer in a OLED manufacturing startup, and will be buying a ST60 as soon as there is stock on hand at the local BB. smile.gif
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post #7758 of 13079 Old 08-21-2013, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

Wow. Again, I wouldn't have purchased had I known this. I'm a big Rangers fan and I want to watch their games. If I'm supposed to stop watching or else get burn in, and if I had enough money, I'd trash this TV and move on. What an effing joke IMO

I think you took that post wrong. I never had to stop playing the game. Any IR I had went away pretty fast with normal TV viewing and didn't come back any easier or go away any slower when it came back again after playing the game again. In other words, I've had nothing near burn-in on any of my plasmas and the old two I've even played bejeweled for hours at a time, a game that's nothing but static images.

You got a defective panel, that's all there is to it. If I buy another one and that's likely while there's still Panny plasmas left, I'd purposely put static images on the TV while still within the return period to check for a bad panel. From what I saw with my TV when it was new, it won't hurt the TV unless it's defective.
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post #7759 of 13079 Old 08-21-2013, 01:25 AM
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Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere but I can't find the answer, I am looking at purchasing the Panasonic TX-P42ST60. This will be my first plasma TV and I'm really excited. But I've yet to find anyone who is using this TV with a HTPC set up. I myself will be using a Mac Mini connected via HDMI but have concerns regarding IR and display resolution. Will I get the correct resolution with HDMI? And with the menu bar at the top of the screen in OS X am I likely to suffer burn in issues? This Mac is solely used for media and music and will eventually be hooked up to an AV Amp, I rarely web browse so when not in use am I ok for a screen saver to kick in every 5 minutes of inactivity? I know this TV is relatively new so maybe that's the reason I can't find any HTPC reviews. So if anyone has this set up or has seen anything in relation to it, please message me! Thanks in advance.
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post #7760 of 13079 Old 08-21-2013, 05:26 AM
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Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere but I can't find the answer, I am looking at purchasing the Panasonic TX-P42ST60. This will be my first plasma TV and I'm really excited. But I've yet to find anyone who is using this TV with a HTPC set up. I myself will be using a Mac Mini connected via HDMI but have concerns regarding IR and display resolution. Will I get the correct resolution with HDMI? And with the menu bar at the top of the screen in OS X am I likely to suffer burn in issues? This Mac is solely used for media and music and will eventually be hooked up to an AV Amp, I rarely web browse so when not in use am I ok for a screen saver to kick in every 5 minutes of inactivity? I know this TV is relatively new so maybe that's the reason I can't find any HTPC reviews. So if anyone has this set up or has seen anything in relation to it, please message me! Thanks in advance.


When you hook your macbook up using HDMI, you can go to display preferences on your mini and set the external display however you want. 1080p, 720p, 1080i etc etc. At least that's how it is on my Pro. As far as the menu goes, just auto hide everything.
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post #7761 of 13079 Old 08-21-2013, 07:20 AM
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My mac mini is connected to my panasonic plasma via hdmi, no problem.
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post #7762 of 13079 Old 08-21-2013, 08:41 AM
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When you hook your macbook up using HDMI, you can go to display preferences on your mini and set the external display however you want. 1080p, 720p, 1080i etc etc. At least that's how it is on my Pro. As far as the menu goes, just auto hide everything.

Thanks how do I auto hide everything? I know I can do that with the task bar at the bottom, but I was talking about the top bar (File Edit etc)
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post #7763 of 13079 Old 08-21-2013, 08:57 AM
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Thanks
Thanks how do I auto hide everything? I know I can do that with the task bar at the bottom, but I was talking about the top bar (File Edit etc)

On a PC it's "view" then "full screen" in the menu bar.
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post #7764 of 13079 Old 08-21-2013, 09:00 AM
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Hello,

I just got my screen and prepare to calibrate it. I got into the service menu but I am a bit puzzled.
What is it the service menu that can help me calibrate?
Where is the gamma, cms, grayscale setting?

Thanks
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post #7765 of 13079 Old 08-21-2013, 09:05 AM
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Hello,

I just got my screen and prepare to calibrate it. I got into the service menu but I am a bit puzzled.
What is it the service menu that can help me calibrate?
Where is the gamma, cms, grayscale setting?

Thanks

You don't need the SM to calibrate the ST60. Most of what you need is in pro settings in the picture settings. Those settings are only available in cinema and custom modes.
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post #7766 of 13079 Old 08-21-2013, 09:08 AM
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Hello,

I just got my screen and prepare to calibrate it. I got into the service menu but I am a bit puzzled.
What is it the service menu that can help me calibrate?
Where is the gamma, cms, grayscale setting?

Thanks

Get out of the there, no need to be in there for anything calibration related.

65VT60(Calibrated by Chad B)
55ST60(Calibrated by Chunon)
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post #7767 of 13079 Old 08-21-2013, 09:53 AM
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If you want to sell your set then it might be a good idea to follow the advise you've gotten here about how to get rid of stubborn IR. Then it might also help to stop calling what you see burn-in. It's just a suggestion. smile.gif

I have Despicable Me playing right now on loop, I remember a while back you suggested watching Pixar films. Otherwise I should watch Disney WOW (which I've ordered). Anything else?
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Originally Posted by samijubal View Post

I think you took that post wrong. I never had to stop playing the game. Any IR I had went away pretty fast with normal TV viewing and didn't come back any easier or go away any slower when it came back again after playing the game again. In other words, I've had nothing near burn-in on any of my plasmas and the old two I've even played bejeweled for hours at a time, a game that's nothing but static images.

You got a defective panel, that's all there is to it. If I buy another one and that's likely while there's still Panny plasmas left, I'd purposely put static images on the TV while still within the return period to check for a bad panel. From what I saw with my TV when it was new, it won't hurt the TV unless it's defective.

Ok, thanks for the clarification. Though I never had this type of issue in the viewing hours before this game, at least not anything out of the ordinary definition of IR. And unfortunately it didn't happen until after the warranty period.

This is a long shot, but do you guys think there is any way Panasonic or Paul's TV would be willing to help me resolve this?
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post #7768 of 13079 Old 08-21-2013, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

I have Despicable Me playing right now on loop, I remember a while back you suggested watching Pixar films. Otherwise I should watch Disney WOW (which I've ordered). Anything else?
Ok, thanks for the clarification. Though I never had this type of issue in the viewing hours before this game, at least not anything out of the ordinary definition of IR. And unfortunately it didn't happen until after the warranty period.

This is a long shot, but do you guys think there is any way Panasonic or Paul's TV would be willing to help me resolve this?

I would certainly reach out to them, the worst they can say is no, and I'm sure you've heard that before (as we all have). wink.gif
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post #7769 of 13079 Old 08-21-2013, 10:14 AM
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Such a warm welcoming
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post #7770 of 13079 Old 08-21-2013, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by xtrips View Post

Such a warm welcoming

Hope you are not being sarcastic. Nobody said anything with any sort of hidden mean intent.. Simply telling you that you don't need to be in the service menu if you look through the picture settings you would see the settings you asked for.

EMP E55ti | EMP E56ci | Polk T15's for surround duty | Ultimax 15" Sub | Integra 40.2 | Rotel 976 | Panasonic 60ST60
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