Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 265 - AVS Forum
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post #7921 of 12981 Old 08-31-2013, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post


His settings/post seems like more trouble than it's worth...
rolleyes.gif

The 100 hours is part of a procedure designed for those who want to get the most out of D-Nice's settings. His procedure is not related to having a professional calibration, and according to D-Nice his settings are not a replacement for a professional calibration. He says the settings are a starting point. That's true of all posted settings, because, as you point out, every set, of a given model, will be a little different. The aren't grossly different, but they are different.

When D-Nice or any other respected calibrator works on several examples of the same model panel, the settings will be different to some degree, but the charts illustrating the results will be almost identical. The better the TV's controls and build quality, the more consistent the results will be.

The drift found by D-Nice in his ST60 is a problem with the display, and not a problem with his or anyone else's calibration. D-Nice recommended that anyone wanting a professional calibration should wait at least 300 hours. He did not recommend running the slides for three hundred hours.

If you have the technical credentials to criticize D-Nice's professional work, do so, but do it on a technical basis. Such a high level technical criticism should be in the calibration forum, because it's off topic here. .
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post #7922 of 12981 Old 08-31-2013, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

rolleyes.gif

The 100 hours is part of a procedure designed for those who want to get the most out of D-Nice's settings. His procedure is not related to having a professional calibration, and according to D-Nice his settings are not a replacement for a professional calibration. He says the settings are a starting point. That's true of all posted settings, because, as you point out, every set, of a given model, will be a little different. The aren't grossly different, but they are different.

His settings post say only the following, no mention of "not a replacement for a pro calibration".
QUOTE "This procedure is designed to prepare your display for the reference settings listed for each 2013 North American Panasonic model below by aging all pixels equally with the same content."
He may say that in other posts in other threads, but the original posts do not mention it at all. People read the 2 posts and get the wrong impression of what the slides and settings are giving them. And "reference settings" written here can easily be misconstrued as very accurate/calibrated settings as long as the slides/procedure are followed to the T. That's definitely not the case and it is very misleading.

If calibrations were universal for every TV, manufacturers could easily just set the custom/cinema/HT modes to be 100% accurate before even shipping the TVs out. And there would be no need for pro calibrators to go around and adjust TVs and projectors. And we all know that's not the case...
Quote:
When D-Nice or any other respected calibrator works on several examples of the same model panel, the settings will be different to some degree, but the charts illustrating the results will be almost identical. The better the TV's controls and build quality, the more consistent the results will be.

My point is not that the calibration results are bad when done by a pro (because they are very good), or that D-Nice doesn't know what he's doing (he obviously does know what he is doing).

My point is that (and I've posted this quite a few times here and on other threads)----plugging someone else's settings into your own TV will only make your own TV look different or worse. Not accurate, and definitely not "calibrated."

It's a shame that the pros that post their settings don't really mention this at least from a few posts I've seen. (I know that D-Nice has mentioned it here and there in follow-up posts). But it seems like the pros especially should be forthcoming and clear about expectations and caveats for using someone else's settings. I would think pros would even recommend their clients not post the final settings because of the big variances between sets, and the need for a pro calibration to really get the most out of the picture.


Even CNET's own settings page for ST60 only says "My TC-P55ST60 sample was aged 150 hours before calibration and review, but there's no reason you need to similarly break it in before you apply the settings below." No mention that every TV differs and that their settings aren't necessarily good for any other display, and no mention of getting a pro calibration (http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_102-590736/panasonic-tc-p55st60-picture-settings/).

Even CNET's own settings/calibration page skirts around the issue:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9996461-1.html?tag=posts;msg5447483
Quote:
Originally Posted by CNET 
Are your settings as good as a professional calibration?
It depends on the TV, and the calibrator. We've heard horror stories about pointless, expensive calibrations, whether from independent contractors or services like Best Buy's Geek Squad, and we've also heard from customers who are very happy with their professional calibrations. Sometimes the CNET picture settings, since they don't address the service menu, can't be as accurate as a professional one that does go into the service menu. When a TV has plenty of user-menu controls, however, the CNET settings can be just as good as a professional calibration, with the significant caveats that of course a pro can make adjustments for you on-site, takes into account your entire system and room lighting condition, and can provide other general advice. We also use the best equipment available and our reviewers are all very experienced calibrators, while some calibration services lack our experience and equipment.

That is what I am lamenting and getting frustrated with, overall.
It could be as simple as D-Nice going back to the original slides/settings posts and updating them with the disclaimers (and even adding the post-300-hour settings in one of his "reserved" posts).

I don't know the thread/link off-hand from the Calibration forum, but a pro had links in his signature to another website with articles, and one of them was a "semi scientific" poll or comparison of "before/after" readings for about 20~ high-end Pioneer Kuro plasmas, all done by pros. I assume the Kuro displays start out being more accurate with a closer tolerance / less inconsistency between panels than the ST60s or other modes.

From those 20~ panels, there was only a 5% / 1 in 20 chance that two displays would start off with similar picture readings. The other 95% of the time the "before" (reaqdings and therefore the calibrated settings to fix the readings) were most likely drastically different. Meaning that using someone else's settings actually makes your picture worse than before, or possibly / less frequently, using someone else's settings made your picture not necessarily worse but just as far from accurate as the default settings. And that's why the default settings are what they are -- they are more or less an average to get the best results knowing how the panels can differ from unit to unit.


This 95/5 ratio is pretty consistent with the inconsistent ST60 "before" readings shown below and in the attached image.
Quote:
The drift found by D-Nice in his ST60 is a problem with the display, and not a problem with his or anyone else's calibration. D-Nice recommended that anyone wanting a professional calibration should wait at least 300 hours. He did not recommend running the slides for three hundred hours.

I didn't say any of that. My point was that even on his own display, he needed different settings after another 200 hours. So people using random settings from someone else is useless/not accurate.
And again, there's no mention from D-Nice of any of that in those original posts. It's just buried in various threads.


Quote:
If you have the technical credentials to criticize D-Nice's professional work, do so, but do it on a technical basis. Such a high level technical criticism should be in the calibration forum, because it's off topic here. .

I am not criticizing his work on his own display. I am only calling into question the point of people posting settings, including D-Nice and CNET, because displays differ so much. I do not think it is off topic, because people post here and in the settings thread how they use the slides and settings as their "calibration" and trust them like the Bible. I would rather people be educated and not have a false sense of security that their TV is "calibrated" when it's not, seeing how obsessed people get with the slides and his settings.

And I'm not a pro, just a hobbyist. But I do know a little about calibration/tuning displays / audio / bass (threads here and on other forums -- including a HTPC + DLP/rear pro "how to calibrate by eye" sticky from 5~6 years ago, helping with REW/BFD for subs, etc.).

To illustrate the differences, you can look at the "before" charts in the various before/after calibration reports (D-Nice doesn't have his own before/after report posted, at least in those two posts, only the "after")

From the records you yourself keep in the Calibration forums (and I commend you on your efforts and dedication in maintaining such amazing and thorough records everyone), most of these have the PDFs with before/after PDFs. To make things easier than going to all these links and opening the PDFs, I've attached a jpg showing the "before" greyscale readings from 7 of these that have PDFs and use the consistent format. Caveat: I didn't see whether these were Cinema/Custom or whatever settings.
Panasonic TC-PxxST60 (1080p):
Chad B for JetsCuseFan
Chad B for LESeminole
Chad B for ricemanva
Chad B for Shady195
Chad B for shoresguy
Chad B for Timokeon
Charles Cooper for ryansebiz
Gregg Loewen for JSwizzle

Here's them all together:

*You can compare with CNET's report here, which was after 150 hours -- they look partially similar to one of the readings in the jpg, but very different from the others --> http://www.scribd.com/doc/135590606/Panasonic-TC-P55ST60-CNET-review-calibration-results


For example, Mr Smith's before is actually like the readings in the top left (and he doesn't know because he doesn't have the equipment), and he inputs calibration settings used by Mr Jones for the TV on the bottom right, Mr Smith's TV will look much worse than if he had left the detailed settings at default. That's the danger...



D-NICE Settings /// CNET Settings
*Caveat that D-Nice's settings are for Custom, and CNET's are for Cinema.


Pro Settings
Panel Brightness: Mid
AGC: 0
Black Extension: 0
Color Gamut: Normal

W/B Detail Adjustment
W/B High R: 5 /// 6
W/B High G: 0 /// -1
W/B High B:5 /// 1
W/B Low R: 3 /// 1
W/B Low G: 0 /// -1
W/B Low B: 1 /// 0


(W/B) More Detail Adjustment
10 W/B R: -20 /// -10
10 W/B G: 0 /// -10
10 W/B B: 13 /// 10

20 W/B R: 5 /// 3
20 W/B G: 0 /// -4
20 W/B B: 14 /// 0

30 W/B R: 7 /// 0
30 W/B G: 0 /// 0
30 W/B B: 4 /// 0

40 W/B R: 6 /// -3
40 W/B G: 0 /// -4
40 W/B B: 2 /// -1

50 W/B R: 3 /// 0
50 W/B G: 0 /// 0
50 W/B B: -4 /// 0

60 W/B R: -3 /// 0
60 W/B G: 0 /// 0
60 W/B B: -8 /// 0

70 W/B R: -2 /// 0
70 W/B G: 0 /// 0
70 W/B B: -7 /// 0

80 W/B R: 6 /// 0
80 W/B G: 0 /// 0
80 W/B B: -1 /// 0

90 W/B R: 1 /// -1
90 W/B G: -1 /// 1
90 W/B B: 2 /// 2

100 W/B R: -11 /// -4
100 W/B G: 0 /// 0
100 W/B B: 4 /// 3

Color Detail Adjustment
R-Hue: 2 /// -8
R-Sat: -39 /// 4
R-Lum: -9 /// -3

G-Hue: 12 /// 3
G-Sat: -50 /// 12
G-Lum: 0 /// 10

B-Hue: -22 /// 10
B-Sat: 8 /// 10
B-Lum: -8 /// -10


Gamma Detail Adjustment
Gamma: 2.6 /// 2.2

(Gamma) More Detail Adjustment
10 Gain: -33 /// -10
20 Gain: -15 /// -20
30 Gain: -6 /// -20
40 Gain: -3 /// -20
50 Gain: -2 /// -6
60 Gain: 3 /// 0
70 Gain: 3 /// 0
80 Gain: -1 /// 0
90 Gain: 0 /// 2
100 Gain: 0 /// 0





I apologize for the lengthy post, and apologize if anything here comes off as antagonistic or standoffish. Again, my intention is to try to balance out the obsession with the slides/settings, which I personally think are dangerously (admittedly too strong a word) misleading. There is definitely a lot of confusion around the slides, settings, and what expectations should be, as evidenced by the FAQ that was suggested and started, maybe finished/maybe discontinued... biggrin.gif
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post #7923 of 12981 Old 08-31-2013, 05:08 AM
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Found the links, in a post by GeorgeAB (http://www.avsforum.com/t/1487258/need-calibration-settings-for-my-tv)

'The Fruits Of Copying Settings- The Pioneer Lottery'
http://www.tlvexp.ca/2012/12/the-fruits-of-copying-settings-the-pioneer-lottery/
This is the link / Kuro experiment I was thinking of, and it looks like it was 2 out of 50 TVs, not the 1 out of 20~25 that I was thinking of.

Sharing display menu settings?'
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1055906

'Why Copying Settings From The Web Won't Get You A Calibrated TV'
http://forums.hdtvtest.co.uk/index.php?topic=7202.0


And that last link, very interesting. it mentions a disclaimer they post (kudos!), and shows an experiment with an ST50. Click the above link to read it on their website, with the images (they missing below).
Quote:
We're usually happy to share them, especially if a model has a particularly bad out of the box preset mode, so users can see some improvement.

However, even in the case of TVs with decent presets, people still ask us for the settings, so we release them with this disclaimer:

The usual disclaimer:
Quote:
Copying calibrated settings from the internet will not net you a calibrated TV. Calibration is an exact process which involves measuring colours and brightness from the TV screen and making precise adjustments to offset errors. In comparison, copying settings used on another TV will only provide an approximate result. In the case of TVs which have very good preset picture modes, they may even make the image quality worse.

Although many settings operate in the same way from unit to unit, some of the most crucial settings - the Greyscale (White Balance) adjustments - are largely specific to each TV and can only be successfully adjusted with a calibration device and software. The following settings reflect the adjustments that we made on our individual review sample.


Today I bought a Panasonic ST50 and as an experiment, copied the settings I used on the review sample TV to get near-perfect Greyscale tracking.

And here are the calibrated settings from one TV copied into another:


As you can see, we just took a plus-green TV and made it... plus-red! Delta errors, for the most part, are worse. Colour is reigned in a bit but is still wrong.

*********

Updated, July 10, 2012: here's another example with the out of the box settings on a Samsung LED LCD TV, with the calibrated settings we were asked to give out, copied into a very similar model.

Out of the box:



Copied settings - even bigger errors:



*********

For this reason, we generally only recommend sharing settings if the out of the box preset on your display is especially inaccurate (we share full settings in these cases).

If you want the best performance from your display, it needs to be calibrated.



HDTV Test Forums review of ST60 (UK/EU model) including detailed notes how they went about calibrating it and before/after calibration graphs. Interesting findings on the LOW v MID panel brightness settings, although this is again a UK/EU model, not a US model. The same could apply here, because the "HIGH" mode works like they describe in the notes.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-p42st60-201303312779.htm
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post #7924 of 12981 Old 08-31-2013, 07:06 AM
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Original --" Question,,, has anyone found a backlit remote that will work with the ST60? This is really the only issue I have with my 50ST60, my first plasma btw. I'm forever hitting the wrong button during evenng viewing and after reading that the ST50 came with a backlit remote, it's a damn shame the ST60 doesn't."





Depends on how much you want to spend... I'm using a Harmony remote that is backlit and has a nifty touch screen on it as well and it also very capable of controlling all the other devices in a system. has an add on adapter for ps3 control as well if your like me and use your ps3 as primary bluray player. I will say tho that most harmony or Logitech remotes aren't cheap.
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post #7925 of 12981 Old 08-31-2013, 07:40 AM
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You should copy and paste post #7926 and post it in the 2013 Panasonic Settings thread. It would be helpful and thats really where it belongs anyway.

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post #7926 of 12981 Old 08-31-2013, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

cyberbri
You should copy and paste post #7926 and post it in the 2013 Panasonic Settings thread. It would be helpful and thats really where it belongs anyway.
I agree. The whole discussion is off topic here and should be deleted.

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post #7927 of 12981 Old 08-31-2013, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

cyberbri
You should copy and paste post #7926 and post it in the 2013 Panasonic Settings thread. It would be helpful and thats really where it belongs anyway.

I'll re-post over there today, thanks for advice.
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post #7928 of 12981 Old 08-31-2013, 01:39 PM
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Does anyone know how to format the attached USB drive for large 4GB+ size files? I tried an external drive formatted as extDOS but the TV did not want to see the drive. I was using a usb powered drive. Maybe I should try a different drive?

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post #7929 of 12981 Old 08-31-2013, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

I'll re-post over there today, thanks for advice.

I don't mean to be off topic, but this is a very good discussion. I also believe that plugging in someone else's settings for the advanced settings (color, white balance and grayscale, etc) will not give you better results. You should probably get those calibrated by a pro, or leave them on default values. Geoffrey Morrison explains why he never shares his settings. It's a good read.


http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2012/05/04/why-i-hate-sharing-my-picture-settings
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post #7930 of 12981 Old 08-31-2013, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dandiego View Post

What mode (1, 2, or 3) do you have set by the DIP switches on the back of the splitter? Are you sure you're getting 5.1 out of the processor?



It is called Mode 2 but its' actually the 3rd switch that is turned on and yes, I'm totally positive that I'm getting Dolby digital processing from my Sunfire TG4, 5.1 and 6.1 from my network & premium movie channels. From the manual, this splitter will also pass TrueHD. I bought this splitter as my Sunfire doesn't have HDMI capability and I didn't trust that I wouldn't have lip synch issues if I used DirecTv's HMDI output for my Panny picture and the DirecTv's digital coax output to my Sunfire for audio. The special surprise for me though was the improved audio quality from extracting the HDMI audio using this splitter, even though I'm still running a digital coax from the splitter to the Sunfire processor. MUCH improved I might add with better channel separation, especially the rear channels. I can't recommend this splitter enough and as it so happens, I'm leaving mine on 24/7 because everytime I shut it off, I lose the audio when I turn it back on and have to push the reset button to get it back. So I just leave mine on. BTW, when you make a mode move, you need to hit the rest button to activate it.

FWIW, Monprice is very good at responding to questions so if you don't need a 4 HDMI splitter, you might be getting the same results as I am with your choice for 40% less price. In fact, I might have been able to get by with your choice also as I only have 1 HDMI source, but I was looking ahead just in case I get a BluRay player and I have no intention of upgrading my A/V system. At my age, it's simply not cost effective. biggrin.gif

5.1 headphones,,,, that's gotta be quite the trip. They would have been sweet back in 1969. cool.gif

Cheers,
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post #7931 of 12981 Old 08-31-2013, 11:41 PM
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To help me when I get my ST60 (hopefully soon!), I have gathered all of the settings from the major US review sites (CNET, hometheater.com, Sound and vision and Plasma TV buying guide). I have also included D-Nice's and Cadett's settings. I hope I am not stepping on anyone's toes by including their settings in the guide. I reasoned that since D-Nice and Cadett made their settings public, it would not bother them if I included them in my guide. Let me know if it does. I will remove the guide if anyone objects. I have made an Excel file with all of these settings. I have also made an average of the custom and cinema mode settings. I have not included the Plasma TV buying guide settings in the averages, because they are far too different from the others. I find it a little strange that their settings are so far off from the other review sites.

I have not included the color, white balance and grey point settings. Because, I think it is best to get them calibrated by a pro, or leave them at their default settings. According to the review sites, the color settings out of the box are pretty good. So, plugging someone else's settings will most likely not improve them. I have not included the settings from the European sites, because their panels are different and their settings are very different from the North American models.

I made this guide for myself, but I thought I would offer it to everyone. It is not meant to be a final word on calibration of the ST60, but rather a good starting point to get the settings in the "ballpark". I plan on using this guide, and then fine tuning the settings with the Disney WOW disk. For example, in custom mode, the contrast ranges from 79-82. So, a good starting point is between those two numbers. If you get close to this range, you're probably ok. If you are at 70, or 95, you may be too far out. I have also included the Pro and Advanced settings, because these tend to be either or, or On or OFF type settings. They also seem to be universal (everyone uses the same ones). At the very least, this guide gives you all of the settings in one document (just scroll through the tabs at the bottom of the page).

I hope this guide helps! If any of you find other North American settings done by a review site, or professional, let me know. I'll try and add them to the guide. I hope to get my ST60 soon, so I can actually use it myself! Let me know if the guide helps.


Panasonic ST60 settings guide final.xlsx 23k .xlsx file
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File Type: xlsx Panasonic ST60 settings guide final.xlsx (23.4 KB, 380 views)
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post #7932 of 12981 Old 09-01-2013, 01:34 AM
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Good deal. If you would copy and paste this entire post to the 2013 Panasonic Settings thread also it would be helpful.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1466472/2013-panasonic-settings-issues-thread/1620#post_23689100
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post #7933 of 12981 Old 09-01-2013, 10:13 PM
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[Heads up, I've tried searching... I may have not done so well at it, so I apologize if this is a rehashed topic.]

I just picked up a P50ST60.

I have an HTPC/DVR (Windows Media Center on Windows 8) and PS3 connected to a receiver, which is connected to HDMI 1 on the TV (all connections are HDMI).

No matter what pixel format or what color space settings I choose on both the TV itself and the PC (a Radeon 7750 is hosting the HDMI Out from the HTPC), the color seems over-saturated and dark. I don't think editing individual settings on the PC is the answer - I reckon their should be some option somewhere that allows for a more natural/native output.
I might not have tried every combination of settings, but I was wondering if anyone with this Plasma series has experience with PC connections and knows what the TV supports and what settings would need changed.

Thanks!
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post #7934 of 12981 Old 09-01-2013, 11:22 PM
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Did you try the HDMI range setting on the TV? I think default is Standard, and "Non-Standard" I think changes the TV to look for the expanded levels.
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post #7935 of 12981 Old 09-02-2013, 04:44 AM
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Loving my 65" ST60. We have probably 200 hours on our set so far; but my wife has managed to get IR from the Investigation Discovery logo on the lower right (when she got sick, she left the DVR on that channel). Was using dnice's settings for lack of a pro calibration, in hind sight if we'd been using less contrast for the more casual viewing this probably wouldn't have happened. I really wish that these broadcasters wouldn't do solid white static images for their logo 24x7. Screen wipe for 8 hours last night might have helped, but it's still there, so time will tell. The logo shows up with a red tint on a full white background.
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post #7936 of 12981 Old 09-02-2013, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destrekor View Post

[No matter what pixel format or what color space settings I choose on both the TV itself and the PC (a Radeon 7750 is hosting the HDMI Out from the HTPC), the color seems over-saturated and dark. I don't think editing individual settings on the PC is the answer - I reckon their should be some option somewhere that allows for a more natural/native output.

I've seen this before with my HTPCs - notably with a panasonic LCD when using SageTV. The PC can use a different color profile set for full screen/overlay video mode than is displayed on the desktop. If the display is set up properly, the only easy fix is to adjust what the PC is putting out; it might be configured by default to be darker since a majority of computer users have their monitors set up to be blinding. That's the experience I had with SageTV and other overlays (VLC, MPHC) for movies. Adjusting the monitor for the output in this instance will just result in a washed out picture, since the gradiation out of the PC is just not there.
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post #7937 of 12981 Old 09-02-2013, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mlacomb View Post

Loving my 65" ST60. We have probably 200 hours on our set so far; but my wife has managed to get IR from the Investigation Discovery logo on the lower right (when she got sick, she left the DVR on that channel). Was using dnice's settings for lack of a pro calibration, in hind sight if we'd been using less contrast for the more casual viewing this probably wouldn't have happened. I really wish that these broadcasters wouldn't do solid white static images for their logo 24x7. Screen wipe for 8 hours last night might have helped, but it's still there, so time will tell. The logo shows up with a red tint on a full white background.
My wife watches that channel as well. We've had the contrast down to 35 and it still caused IR. It's by far the worst offender. Only channel that has caused any IR. Luckily mine has faded anytime I get it but it lingers quite a while.

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post #7938 of 12981 Old 09-02-2013, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post

Nonsense. I observed the complete removal of stubborn IR from my GT50 over a four month period.
Am I happy that it took that long? No. Do I think that it is acceptable? No. Do I think that its permanent and can be considered burn-in......?

No.

So, what you are saying is that during that four month period you NEVER watched the same content with the IR image? I find that absurd, albeit, inspiring smile.gif
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post #7939 of 12981 Old 09-02-2013, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MonicaJae View Post

So, what you are saying is that during that four month period you NEVER watched the same content with the IR image? I find that absurd, albeit, inspiring smile.gif

It was the 6pm news. I simply switched my allegiance to a rival channel. When that channel also left its logo scared into the opposite corner of the TV, I abandoned both of them. It wasn't a difficult decision, they were both equally terrible.

I have started watching the first channel again (except I am making sure that the news isn't the first thing that I start watching when the TV is warming up). Sadly that doesn't seem to be making any significant difference. The IR is back (although its a little less pronounced, but that could just be building up again).
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post #7940 of 12981 Old 09-02-2013, 11:54 PM
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Advice please:

I just discovered a really pronounced dead pixel, abeit I had to get within a couple feet from the screen to see it on my new 55ST60 while running D-Nice's slides. How bad is this? And is there anything I can do to remedy it? This is my first time ever dealing with dead pixel(s), so I don't know how nit picky I should be about it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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post #7941 of 12981 Old 09-03-2013, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by PeeJHooK View Post

Advice please:

I just discovered a really pronounced dead pixel, abeit I had to get within a couple feet from the screen to see it on my new 55ST60 while running D-Nice's slides. How bad is this? And is there anything I can do to remedy it? This is my first time ever dealing with dead pixel(s), so I don't know how nit picky I should be about it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
If it's black it's dead. If it's red, green, blue or some combination then it's stuck.

If it's dead, you can't tell how much it will bother you unless you are watching normal programming from your normal locations.

If it's stuck, try running something bright with primary colors like a Pixar movie with an aspect ratio of 1.78:1. I would do that right away. Put your player on repeat and run it over night at least.

I can't tell you how to feel about it. A lot of people don't bother with a single dead pixel unless there is something else wrong with the set. Others go nuts, because as they say "I know it's there even if I can't see it!"

Enjoy. smile.gif
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post #7942 of 12981 Old 09-03-2013, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

If it's black it's dead. If it's red, green, blue or some combination then it's stuck.

If it's dead, you can't tell how much it will bother you unless you are watching normal programming from your normal locations.

If it's stuck, try running something bright with primary colors like a Pixar movie with an aspect ratio of 1.78:1. I would do that right away. Put your player on repeat and run it over night at least.

I can't tell you how to feel about it. A lot of people don't bother with a single dead pixel unless there is something else wrong with the set. Others go nuts, because as they say "I know it's there even if I can't see it!"

Enjoy. smile.gif

Thanks. It appears to be black because I notice it most on the white/gray slides, but I can hardly notice it on the blue, green, and red slides. I'll be done with D-Nice's slides over night, then I'll check out the PQ on this tv in all its glory with BD after I get back from work. So i'll see if it still bugs me.

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post #7943 of 12981 Old 09-03-2013, 04:16 AM
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Hi guys, I just looked at the 60" version of this yesterday at BB. They had it hooked to satellite TV and of course when I was there a storm blew through and I could not get a proper demo. A couple of questions, do these run as hot as earlier plasmas? Is the power consumption any better on these new panels. I've also heard of fan noise/hum on the ZT panels and wondered if any have experienced this on the ST's?

Thanks,
John.
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post #7944 of 12981 Old 09-03-2013, 08:18 AM
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Electronics are supposed to run warm to hot, they will maintain a proper temperature. For example, your car engine was designed to run at a exact temperature and every engine varies on the best temperature. Power consumptions are way down, on the back of the unit, on any TV, the power consumption is listed, that would be the max draw. No unit runs at max draw, usually they run at 50% max draw.
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post #7945 of 12981 Old 09-03-2013, 08:29 AM
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comfynumb,
I may be wrong but I dont think the STs have any fans.

No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die!
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post #7946 of 12981 Old 09-03-2013, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Electronics are supposed to run warm to hot, they will maintain a proper temperature. For example, your car engine was designed to run at a exact temperature and every engine varies on the best temperature. Power consumptions are way down, on the back of the unit, on any TV, the power consumption is listed, that would be the max draw. No unit runs at max draw, usually they run at 50% max draw.



Hi, I know someone with a 5 year old 50" Panny plasma and it just seemed like theirs was much warmer than the 60" I looked at yesterday. I'm not saying it isn't normal because I know they use more power than an LCD/LED, I'm assuming they use less power than 5 years ago. I just don't want a space heater in my living room smile.gif
Thanks for the reply.
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post #7947 of 12981 Old 09-03-2013, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

comfynumb,
I may be wrong but I dont think the STs have any fans.



Hi, I'm just trying to gather as much info as I do before take the plunge. I don't see how I can go wrong with this panel. OLED is ridiculously priced and IMO not proven and UHD is expensive and there isn't any content. The little I saw of this panel yesterday I really liked and I'm sure would benefit from a good calibration. Thanks for the reply.
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post #7948 of 12981 Old 09-03-2013, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Hi, I know someone with a 5 year old 50" Panny plasma and it just seemed like theirs was much warmer than the 60" I looked at yesterday. I'm not saying it isn't normal because I know they use more power than an LCD/LED, I'm assuming they use less power than 5 years ago. I just don't want a space heater in my living room smile.gif
Thanks for the reply.

Heat output on a plasma depends on contrast level, the higher the contrast the hotter they get. As plasmas have become more energy effecient heat output has dropped along with power consumption.
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post #7949 of 12981 Old 09-03-2013, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by samijubal View Post

Heat output on a plasma depends on contrast level, the higher the contrast the hotter they get. As plasmas have become more energy effecient heat output has dropped along with power consumption.



Good to know thanks.
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post #7950 of 12981 Old 09-03-2013, 11:06 AM
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Yeah my Samsung 50a550 is a space heater lol. Hopefully the 65st60 will be better


So I ordered the 65st60 from Pauls TV on August 23rd & it shows (and they said) the shipping picked it up on Monday, August 26th. This company, Radiant Global Logistics, hasn't updated their tracking since Thursday and has a delivery date of today (Sept. 3rd). That is 6 full business days to deliver something the middle of the US. I call to ask if they have a more precise time of delivery and she proceeds to tell me that it's in their warehouse, but it won't be delivered until tomorrow. This was at 9am!

... And they STILL haven't updated the tracking or delivery date!! You literally have 1 job and you still can't do it. Has anyone else had this company deliver? I just can't imagine it taking 7 full business days to deliver from CA to OK.


Edit: I called them back and she said no luck for getting it delivered today since all their drivers were out, which means they were out by 9am. So if you're shipment gets in that morning then it's going to be the next business day before you get it. Wow lol. So 7 business days to deliver. Uh...don't use this company if you want prompt or value knowing where you're expensive product is. At the end of it all, and I don't get mad b/c I feel like nothing will get done and people aren't willing to do anything if you're yelling at them, but the lady was rude...and then proceeds to say "so do you want me to schedule that for tomorrow"?



.....uh....YES! I'd like my shipment. Thanks. Are you kidding me!?rolleyes.gif

Panny 65st60 / Denon X1000 / EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
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