Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 313 - AVS Forum
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post #9361 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 02:20 PM
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just got approved in a miracle for the Amazon price match after being denied 10 times. I'm set to receive my TV next week!! Can't wait! I'm now going to spend the night reading all about how to prep for viewing it ( d nice slides etc).
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post #9362 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

You are fine.

That is a relief, thank you smile.gif

An "Analog Kid" in a digital world
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post #9363 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by samijubal View Post

If all you're watching is Blu-rays and DVDs, you might want to turn off the noise reduction which I think is set to mid by default.

Under "Custom" it was set to Low,. On "Standard" it was already off.

An "Analog Kid" in a digital world
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post #9364 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rushfan2112 View Post

Under "Custom" it was set to Low,. On "Standard" it was already off.
That may help a little with pq but wont have any affect on your break in procedure.
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No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die!
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post #9365 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

I use two Monoprice #3850 right angle adapters on each HDMI cable to re-direct them flat against the back of the TV (did this with my G10, GT50, and now with my ST60). I also use them on my Surround Sound Receiver, Tivo, TWC DVR, my PC monitor, and even on my Darbee wink.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1397245/official-panasonic-st50-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/8190#post_22794266


900x900px-LL-f9440654_IMG_4884.jpeg

Great pic. I ordered only two from MP for 2 diff HDMI runs. Didn't think of combining 2 together to have the run flat against the back of the panel. I'll follow your lead and the next time I order from MP get a couple more right angle adapters. At least my set up doesn't show cables on the left side - but not as clean as yours.
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post #9366 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 04:50 PM
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I posted this back in June, and it continues to work great; in particular, the cable tie hasn't popped out even once:

The AmazonBasics cables work fine, too. This is the back of my 50ST60. Each Amazon cable is connected to a bulkier, ferrite cored Monoprice 28 AWG cable with a coupler, with a total length up to 16 feet. They work great. Note also I used the supplied cable tie that plugs into a hole in the back of the case. It provides strain relief and has stayed in place as I slide the TV around my Anthrocart desk a couple times a day to get it closer and in front of the monitor arm. (I stuck plastic Super Sliders on the bottom of the stand to make it easy to slide.) The cables don't put any extra strain on the TV ports when sliding, so this has all worked out very well.

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post #9367 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 05:53 PM
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Question: in a general sense, how much brighter an overall picture does the 60ST60 produce than the 60S60? I just returned my 60S60 to Amazon because of the aggressive ABL and the dim picture, and now trying to decide if I should pick up and try a 60ST60 before they are all gone, or just give up on plasma and go LED(can't afford Samsung 8500 plasma, which I know is brighter than Panny). I've read that the ST60 panel can get significantly brighter than the S60. Thanks for any input.

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post #9368 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

Question: in a general sense, how much brighter an overall picture does the 60ST60 produce than the 60S60? I just returned my 60S60 to Amazon because of the aggressive ABL and the dim picture, and now trying to decide if I should pick up and try a 60ST60 before they are all gone, or just give up on plasma and go LED(can't afford Samsung 8500 plasma, which I know is brighter than Panny). I've read that the ST60 panel can get significantly brighter than the S60. Thanks for any input.

 

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post #9369 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

Question: in a general sense, how much brighter an overall picture does the 60ST60 produce than the 60S60? I just returned my 60S60 to Amazon because of the aggressive ABL and the dim picture, and now trying to decide if I should pick up and try a 60ST60 before they are all gone, or just give up on plasma and go LED(can't afford Samsung 8500 plasma, which I know is brighter than Panny). I've read that the ST60 panel can get significantly brighter than the S60. Thanks for any input.
CNET.com:
ST60 - 56 ftL
S60 - 58 ftL

Rtings.com:
ST60 - 81.99 cd/m2
S60 - 56.22 cd/m2

Reviewed.com
ST60 - 131.56 cd/m2
S60 - 91.32 cd/m2

The variations likely stem from the sizes sampled of the two models (larger plasmas are often less bright) and the size of the window patterns measured.

It's curious that CNET obtained such similar results between the two, though.

I guess tastes vary, but I would be hard pressed to enjoy a picture as bright as 50+ ftL. I'd be surprised if you didn't adjust to typical plasma brightness within a matter of days or weeks.

Is your room particularly bright? Are you used to LCD brightness? Did you try the "high" panel brightness setting on the S60 before you returned it? You might want to try to track down an ST60 at one of the few remaining retailers that still let you hold the remote in your hand.

It could well be that you'd just value brightness over other aspects of image quality. FWIW, even the lower end Samsungs are a little brighter than the ST60. Rtings.com has a nice comparison chart. They aren't as good overall as the S60, though.
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post #9370 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 07:25 PM
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I don't know everybody else but it seems that the more hours I put on this TV the more it becomes susceptible to IR. I use to be able to watch an hour or two of channels with static logo and I get nothing, now I watch a channel for 20 minutes and the logo stays there for hours or days. At least running the Disney Wow pixel flipper fixes it somewhat.
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post #9371 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by wiggindude View Post

I don't know everybody else but it seems that the more hours I put on this TV the more it becomes susceptible to IR. I use to be able to watch an hour or two of channels with static logo and I get nothing, now I watch a channel for 20 minutes and the logo stays there for hours or days. At least running the Disney Wow pixel flipper fixes it somewhat.

 

Aren't these TVs supposed to have fixes for that... like pixel orbiter or something?

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post #9372 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

Question: in a general sense, how much brighter an overall picture does the 60ST60 produce than the 60S60? I just returned my 60S60 to Amazon because of the aggressive ABL and the dim picture, and now trying to decide if I should pick up and try a 60ST60 before they are all gone, or just give up on plasma and go LED(can't afford Samsung 8500 plasma, which I know is brighter than Panny). I've read that the ST60 panel can get significantly brighter than the S60. Thanks for any input.

I tried the 50S60 before going to the 50ST60, I didn't see much difference between the two but I didn't compare them side by side at full brightness. If you are looking for a considerable amount more brightness, I'd look elsewhere. Not everyone is a plasma person.
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post #9373 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah View Post

CNET.com:
ST60 - 56 ftL
S60 - 58 ftL

Rtings.com:
ST60 - 81.99 cd/m2
S60 - 56.22 cd/m2

Reviewed.com
ST60 - 131.56 cd/m2
S60 - 91.32 cd/m2

The variations likely stem from the sizes sampled of the two models (larger plasmas are often less bright) and the size of the window patterns measured.

It's curious that CNET obtained such similar results between the two, though.

I guess tastes vary, but I would be hard pressed to enjoy a picture as bright as 50+ ftL. I'd be surprised if you didn't adjust to typical plasma brightness within a matter of days or weeks.

Is your room particularly bright? Are you used to LCD brightness? Did you try the "high" panel brightness setting on the S60 before you returned it? You might want to try to track down an ST60 at one of the few remaining retailers that still let you hold the remote in your hand.

It could well be that you'd just value brightness over other aspects of image quality. FWIW, even the lower end Samsungs are a little brighter than the ST60. Rtings.com has a nice comparison chart. They aren't as good overall as the S60, though.

No, this if for our bedroom, which has very little light, even in the daytime. No, I'm not used to LCD brightness, as this TV will replace the Toshiba 50HP66 plasma we had in the bedroom for the last 6 years until it died. But, the Toshiba had a really bright, contrasty picture, and the 60S60 just seemed dim by comparison. Yes, I tried the high panel brightness setting, as well as all the other settings recommended in the S60 thread, but was still not able to get a picture that rivaled the Toshiba.

Regarding the Samsungs, I've had trouble finding a store that has their 5500 series on display. I'd like to see the difference between the 5300 series and the 5500. I may be going to Dallas Saturday and try to find a store that has them both on display.

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post #9374 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 07:43 PM
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Just ordered a 60ST60.

In Canada, the 60VT60 is $3199 and the 60ZT60 is $4299 which is insane. I wanted the 60ZT60 for the filter as my room has ambient light, but for more than twice the cost, the 60ZT60 is not worth it to me, so I ordered the 60ST60 instead and hope for the best reflections-wise. I currently have a Sony 60NX810 LED but couldn't stand the crappy viewing angles anymore even though the picture is really nice when viewing dead center of the screen.
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post #9375 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samijubal View Post

I tried the 50S60 before going to the 50ST60, I didn't see much difference between the two but I didn't compare them side by side at full brightness. If you are looking for a considerable amount more brightness, I'd look elsewhere. Not everyone is a plasma person.

Well, I've had two plasmas, a 42" Panasonic and a 50" Toshiba, and these new Panasonics are not as bright as plasmas used to be. So, maybe I was a plasma person, but not so much any more.

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post #9376 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

No, this if for our bedroom, which has very little light, even in the daytime. No, I'm not used to LCD brightness, as this TV will replace the Toshiba 50HP66 plasma we had in the bedroom for the last 6 years until it died. But, the Toshiba had a really bright, contrasty picture, and the 60S60 just seemed dim by comparison. Yes, I tried the high panel brightness setting, as well as all the other settings recommended in the S60 thread, but was still not able to get a picture that rivaled the Toshiba.
Interesting. I'm not sure what else to say...seems like you covered the bases. Did the S60 seem abnormally dim? It's just possible you got a bad one.

Usually, calibrators will target something like 36-40 ftL for an ISF-day preset, so 58 ftL should not look dim.
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post #9377 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah View Post

Interesting. I'm not sure what else to say...seems like you covered the bases. Did the S60 seem abnormally dim? It's just possible you got a bad one.

Usually, calibrators will target something like 36-40 ftL for an ISF-day preset, so 58 ftL should not look dim.

I think the S60 was working fine. Also part of the problem is that we watch a lot of cable TV news and sports, and what happens is that when they put up a bright information bar across the bottom or side of the screen, the ABL on these new Pannys will dim the remainder of the screen, resulting in people's faces, or whatever is on the rest of the screen, dimming considerably. Once I saw what that ABL is doing, it became impossible for me to get past it. I don't remember my Toshiba plasma having much ABL effect. It only lasted 6 years, but I liked the image a lot.

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post #9378 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samijubal View Post

I tried the 50S60 before going to the 50ST60, I didn't see much difference between the two but I didn't compare them side by side at full brightness. If you are looking for a considerable amount more brightness, I'd look elsewhere. Not everyone is a plasma person.

Thanks, if that is the case then I don't think I am going to be satisfied with the ST60 either. I had seen some test data that indicated that the ST60 is noticeably brighter than the S60. Also, my wife and I are approaching 60 and maybe our eyes are needing more light these days.wink.gif I found myself not seeing things so great on the S60, even though my eyes test out at 20/20 for distance.

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post #9379 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 08:08 PM
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Can we start a sticky on how many people are having these issues? I would do it if I can but this being my first post I probably cant do it. I have about 70hrs on my TC-P60ST60 so far and it was manufactured in Oct. 2013. This is nothing more than curiosity of how many people are having issues, the amount of hours, and their settings. My thinking is the higher the contrast, the easier RI can happen.  

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post #9380 of 12717 Old 11-20-2013, 08:19 PM
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Sorry, I was referring to Image retention... 

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post #9381 of 12717 Old 11-21-2013, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

I don't remember my Toshiba plasma having much ABL effect. It only lasted 6 years, but I liked the image a lot.

If I remember right the Toshiba plasmas were LG. You might want to look at them if you liked the Toshiba.
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post #9382 of 12717 Old 11-21-2013, 05:21 AM
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If I remember right the Toshiba plasmas were LG. You might want to look at them if you liked the Toshiba.

Thanks, I haven't even really considered LG plasma, but why not, at this point. Good idea.

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post #9383 of 12717 Old 11-21-2013, 05:43 AM
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Having 60St60 for a while now with almost 500 hours on it, I'm very happy with it.
Just being curious, are we able to add any apps manually into our TV??

Pana 60ST60, Onkyo TX-NR3009, OPPO BDP-103, Klipsch WF-35, Klipsch WS-24, Klipsch WC-24, Klipsch Reference RW-12d, BIC America DV62si.
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post #9384 of 12717 Old 11-21-2013, 06:35 AM
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So it's been one month since I found image retention of the Cartoon Network logo on my TV. I have not allowed the kids to watch CN since then. I ran the Disney Pixel Flipper for about 24 hours one day. I am still seeing the CN logo on the bottom, clearly visible with a bright background, not visible with most programming material. I have no idea how it came to this. In my opinion, the kids didn't watch THAT much CN to cause this problem (maybe a few hours a week tops). It's not like it was ever left on pause for an extended period.

Other image retention I've noticed (NFL score from the score/time banner, the Fox World Series logo, etc) are all long gone. CN is the only hint of IR that remains.

I posted about this last month when I first noticed it, and got a few helpful responses. Honestly, I am surprised that it has been a month without any CN viewing and it hasn't gone away yet.

Is there anything I can do at this point to help this go away, or do I basically stay the course of not watching CN and hope for the best?

This was my biggest fear with plasma, and after reading about how burn-in is basically not a problem, but IR can be a problem and can usually go away, I was not worried about it, until now that is.

Thanks for any advice.
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post #9385 of 12717 Old 11-21-2013, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnswer_03 View Post

Just ordered a 60ST60.

In Canada, the 60VT60 is $3199 and the 60ZT60 is $4299 which is insane. I wanted the 60ZT60 for the filter as my room has ambient light, but for more than twice the cost, the 60ZT60 is not worth it to me, so I ordered the 60ST60 instead and hope for the best reflections-wise. I currently have a Sony 60NX810 LED but couldn't stand the crappy viewing angles anymore even though the picture is really nice when viewing dead center of the screen.
I take it the border is not close ??
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post #9386 of 12717 Old 11-21-2013, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah View Post

CNET.com:
ST60 - 56 ftL
S60 - 58 ftL

Rtings.com:
ST60 - 81.99 cd/m2
S60 - 56.22 cd/m2

Reviewed.com
ST60 - 131.56 cd/m2
S60 - 91.32 cd/m2

The variations likely stem from the sizes sampled of the two models (larger plasmas are often less bright) and the size of the window patterns measured.

It's curious that CNET obtained such similar results between the two, though.

I guess tastes vary, but I would be hard pressed to enjoy a picture as bright as 50+ ftL. I'd be surprised if you didn't adjust to typical plasma brightness within a matter of days or weeks.

Is your room particularly bright? Are you used to LCD brightness? Did you try the "high" panel brightness setting on the S60 before you returned it? You might want to try to track down an ST60 at one of the few remaining retailers that still let you hold the remote in your hand.

It could well be that you'd just value brightness over other aspects of image quality. FWIW, even the lower end Samsungs are a little brighter than the ST60. Rtings.com has a nice comparison chart. They aren't as good overall as the S60, though.

my S60 produces 167 cd/m2 in Cinema mode, PB mid, with contrast set to 100 (this is with a 11% standard window... keep in mind the pattern size/type largely affects these numbers due to ABL)
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post #9387 of 12717 Old 11-21-2013, 10:21 AM
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I take it the border is not close ??

Too much hassle. Not worth it to me. Amazon.com showed a $2900 price for the 60ZT60 last time I checked. I'd have to rent a U Haul, find a US address to have it shipped, pay the sales tax/customs/duty etc.
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post #9388 of 12717 Old 11-21-2013, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

Thanks, if that is the case then I don't think I am going to be satisfied with the ST60 either. I had seen some test data that indicated that the ST60 is noticeably brighter than the S60. Also, my wife and I are approaching 60 and maybe our eyes are needing more light these days.wink.gif I found myself not seeing things so great on the S60, even though my eyes test out at 20/20 for distance.

Read my review. The ST60 is notably brighter compared to the s60, in fact is the brightest out of all the 2013 Panasonic plasmas.

Also you guys need to stop posting numbers without explaining what they signify. Both the s60 and st60 will hit 40 ftls when calibrated, but this is for most content, but doesn't give you any idea about brute performance. The s60 at 100% full brightness can only hit 11ftls compared to the st60 which can hit 18 ftls. This is important because the ABL will be less noticeable (40 to 18 vs 40 to 10 ftls).

For reference the F8500 has a peak output of 214 cd/m2 (st60 130 cd/m2) and a 100% full brightness of 38 ftls or 24 ftls when calibrated. = absolute best but not that bad when you compare a calibrated st60 vs a calibrated F8500.
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post #9389 of 12717 Old 11-21-2013, 10:57 AM
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Looking to mount my new 60" ST60. I know folks use monoprice.. Can I trust such an affordable mount for this heavy tv? I'll take an recs. looking for just a tilt and enough room to be able to connect cables behind it.
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post #9390 of 12717 Old 11-21-2013, 11:19 AM
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I'm taking delivery of my TV today and of course it's a colder day out. The temperatures in the mid teens. Are there any special precautions that I need to take before I put the TV and turn it on?

Thanks in advance.

~Nick

 

Augustine's Law: "The last 10% of performance generates one-third of the cost and two-thirds of the problems."

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