Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 367 - AVS Forum
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post #10981 of 13052 Old 01-06-2014, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

No this is a bad driver board, but this is not how I recommend fixing it..........


Haha...so would you say that what I have is considered normal due to the nature of Plasma or should I contact a Panasonic tech about it? My warranty expires in 4 months so I would like to get it look at before it expires.
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post #10982 of 13052 Old 01-06-2014, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

No this is a bad driver board, but this is not how I recommend fixing it..........

LOL. I bet that fix lasted a long time. When it fails, I like this method of destruction using a ball, not a bat:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1510016/i-asked-my-daughter-to-destroy-my-sony-kdl52w4100-and-she-did
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post #10983 of 13052 Old 01-06-2014, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I'm lazily following this thread since I just bought a 60ST60 (not yet delivered though), and I keep seeing those break-in slides mentioned. Could someone give me a brief description of what this is? Is this something included in the TV's firmware, or is it a third-party product? How vital is this? The prospect of using slides for 4 days straight is not that appealing for me and my family biggrin.gif

Another question I have is that while the ST60 is amazingly well reviewed, it seems that one drawback in input lag for gaming. What is the best setting to minimize input lag? Game mode and that's it?

Thanks for any tips.

The slides mentioned are a downloadable zip file containing a number of JPEG images (1920x1080) or red, green, blue, and various shades of grey/white/black. The technique is to put them on a USB memory stick, plug it into the ST60 and have it play them in slideshow mode, just cycling through the images. The slides and the instructions can be found at the start of this thread. Panasonic 2013 Settings/Issues thread. The slides were posted by a member with the handle D-Nice, who used them for uniform aging of the TV's phosphors for 100 hours before he did his own calibration. He offers them in case anyone else wants to follow the same procedure (instructions are in the first post of that thread). The idea is that while the ST60 looks very good out of the box, a plasma TV will change slightly over time as the panel breaks in, so that any adjustment you make to settings early on would likely have to be tweaked down the road after additional viewing. (For those that want a professional calibration done, it is not recommended to do that until after several hundred hours of viewing anyway.)

You will see lots of opinions here and on that other thread in favor of or not in favor of using the slides. Personally, I used them for the first 100 hours on my 60ST60 partially for uniform aging, but also just as a basic test of the electronics and the screen. If an electronic device is going to fail due to some manufacturing defect or bad component, that will usually show up in the first 90 days of use. Did the slides make a difference for my set? Not sure, but they gave me some piece of mind and let me see that my unit was quiet (no buzzing) and that the screen was uniformly good. Since that first 100 hours, I have now watched varied content (OTA HD channels, DVDs, BluRay disks, DISH Network, etc.) for 300 more hours using either the standard Cinema or Home Theater settings with minor tweaks. It looks great!

I am not much of a gamer, so I cannot speak to input lag, but from reading this form, most gamers have said that it is not bad enough to be noticeable (in general) with the TV in game mode. A few people have said they notice the lag, but the majority say it works well for the games they use.
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post #10984 of 13052 Old 01-06-2014, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Will any wireless keyboard work on the ST60 and can I use it to type in searches for Netflix and Vudu? The remote app won't let me type searches in for these and it's very annoying using the remote.

I would be interested in knowing this too.
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post #10985 of 13052 Old 01-06-2014, 04:34 PM
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post #10986 of 13052 Old 01-06-2014, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

I'm lazily following this thread since I just bought a 60ST60 (not yet delivered though), and I keep seeing those break-in slides mentioned. Could someone give me a brief description of what this is? Is this something included in the TV's firmware, or is it a third-party product? How vital is this? The prospect of using slides for 4 days straight is not that appealing for me and my family biggrin.gif

Another question I have is that while the ST60 is amazingly well reviewed, it seems that one drawback in input lag for gaming. What is the best setting to minimize input lag? Game mode and that's it?

Thanks for any tips.

I have owned the tv 5 days, using ps3 played fifa, cod, gta and I cant say I noticed any delay. The tv replaced a c580 samsung lcd which had excellent reviews for gaming and the panasonic felt no different.

on the calibration I dont know some threads say 100 hours of normal tv is acceptable I dont know if this is true.
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post #10987 of 13052 Old 01-06-2014, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

Don't worry about using "game mode." Input lat is minimal and barely noticeable for most people.

Totally agree, online there was no disadvantage cod and gta played how they should just looked amazing and fifa was the same. My ps3 goes through the avr too so theres probably even more lag in my case.. I guess bearing in mind average reaction time is 300ms an input lag of 60-100ms isnt apparent to most.
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post #10988 of 13052 Old 01-06-2014, 05:50 PM
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I bought this tv for watching hockey and saw the threads about it before getting the set. Once I got it I did see the pops or flashes, I noticed it was always when play was near the net, bothered me for a bit but now I don't even notice it unless I am looking for it. Relax, watch the game and enjoy the amazing picture. Stop looking for something to bother you! Life is too short! GO Sens
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post #10989 of 13052 Old 01-06-2014, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy60 View Post


You won't get the ideal white star to disappear on the contrast patterns on the WOW disk. I suspect that as you crank up the contrast on the all white screen, ABL kicks in. There is a screen in the pro section of the WOW disk that allows you to calibrate brightness and contrast at the same time. Part of the screen is black, part is white. It has two scales on the bottom: one with black rectangles and one with white. The scales go from absolute black/white to blacker than black/whiter than white. It is easier to calibrate contrast with this screen. Normally, contrast will range from about 80-84.

 

Thanks for the heads up.  I found the slide.  One interesting thing I picked up on with this slide is how interdependent contrast and brightness seem to be.   I had my brightness at 4, and even at 100 I couldn't get the contrast calibrated properly.  Take the brightness up to 6, and I can get the contrast looking good in the mid-80's.   What I find odd is that my brightness settings are higher than most of the recommendations.  Which makes me wonder if there is something else I should be adjusting.   I am also calibrating in a moderately lit room, so maybe that makes a difference? 

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post #10990 of 13052 Old 01-06-2014, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Money1572 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy60 View Post

You won't get the ideal white star to disappear on the contrast patterns on the WOW disk. I suspect that as you crank up the contrast on the all white screen, ABL kicks in. There is a screen in the pro section of the WOW disk that allows you to calibrate brightness and contrast at the same time. Part of the screen is black, part is white. It has two scales on the bottom: one with black rectangles and one with white. The scales go from absolute black/white to blacker than black/whiter than white. It is easier to calibrate contrast with this screen. Normally, contrast will range from about 80-84.

Thanks for the heads up.  I found the slide.  One interesting thing I picked up on with this slide is how interdependent contrast and brightness seem to be.   I had my brightness at 4, and even at 100 I couldn't get the contrast calibrated properly.  Take the brightness up to 6, and I can get the contrast looking good in the mid-80's.   What I find odd is that my brightness settings are higher than most of the recommendations.  Which makes me wonder if there is something else I should be adjusting.   I am also calibrating in a moderately lit room, so maybe that makes a difference? 

Set the Panel Brightness to MID and Gamma to 2.4. Contrast should be about 80, and then Brightness (black level) should end up being +/- 2 from default.

If you are do the settings during the day in a bright room, the Brightness might need to be higher because of that.

However raising Brightness means Black turns into dark grey. What you can do instead is leave Brightness at the actual proper setting, but change gamma to 2.2 or 2.0 to bring out more shadow detail without losing the black levels. For daytime viewing, that is. For nighttime, go back to Gamma of 2.4.



*I've found that you can actually increase the brightest white by changing the "level" of the 100 IRE (in the Gamma detailed setting section I believe) and make the Contrast pattern look right, but I suggest leaving all of the detailed gamma and color settings flat at default. Watching normal material you won't notice, and in a dark room the TV is plenty bright.
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post #10991 of 13052 Old 01-06-2014, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickos99 View Post

Totally agree, online there was no disadvantage cod and gta played how they should just looked amazing and fifa was the same. My ps3 goes through the avr too so theres probably even more lag in my case.. I guess bearing in mind average reaction time is 300ms an input lag of 60-100ms isnt apparent to most.
Play COD in split screen & watch each others movement. The delay is baaaad
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post #10992 of 13052 Old 01-06-2014, 07:06 PM
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I'm about 2.5 months into owning my 60ST60, and loving it.

I have been poking around with the picture settings and have a general question, not specific to the Panny, but dependent on it in some ways:

For someone who doesn't have the equipment to do a calibration or the interest in spending money on a pro calibration, how do we know when to adjust say the overall Gamma, or the More Detail Gamma, or the High/Low RGB, or the more detail color items? It seems to me there's overlap, and I'm not sure which is the best to use to have various effects. I've got the WOW and AVS discs, and have done basic brightness/contrast settings appropriately, but from there it gets a bit dicey since it seems each TV brand / model has a different subset of available settings, so most online guides aren't detailed enough to follow to get a good understanding of when to tweak say gamma settings versus other things.

After leaving things stable for two weeks, I decided my mid tones were a bit dull. Say, faces in an interior-lit room. My brights were very bright (perhaps, too bright, but I like 'em!) and my darks were nice and black with good shadow detail. I wound up bumping up by two points the Low Red/Green/Blue setting. It helped, but I'm not sure if it was the "best" way to achieve the effect. I'll leave it be a week or so and decide if anything else needs to be bumped. But at this point, I'm not sure which control to use... eek.gif

Again, these are all very "first world" sort of issues to deal with. The picture is awesome... it's just fun to poke at it and see if I can improve things.

Can anyone refer me to some links that I should peruse, that would talk about which control to use when, that line up well with the controls we have on the ST60?

Thanks!

Marc

Sometimes, I see dead pixels...
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post #10993 of 13052 Old 01-06-2014, 08:38 PM
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Regarding Disney WOW- I see a 2 disc Blu Ray and a 1 disc Blu Ray. Anyone know what's on the second disc, and if it's worth it?

Panasonic 60ST60, Pioneer SC-1522-K, Polk RTiA9, PS3 Slim
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post #10994 of 13052 Old 01-06-2014, 08:58 PM
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I've had my st60 for about a month now and so far so good. Used dve that u had laying around for basic adjustments and also tried some of the popular settings from the setting thread but they are far too dark and dull for my room.
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post #10995 of 13052 Old 01-06-2014, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierdsddie View Post

I just used the white pixel jogger. http://www.mediafire.com/download/hq5rv78qu1d9dhd/Pixel+Jogger.mp4 You should try it. It seems like it gives the pixels a more intense workout. Might be just me.

The beta came out October 1st for Premium users. Everyone else will get it tomorrow. I noticed something awesome that turned out to be somewhat of a fail. You can set the opacity of the HUD from 0%-100%. 0% completely hides the HUD, but it doesn't work for the names of the members in your squad. But that's the only thing that will show up if you want it like that.

Thanks so much for that! I know it's like 3 months later, but i do have BF4 now and am quite happy with the ability to alter the opacity again! [why they ever took it out in BF3 is beyond my comprehension...] I did manage to get that video, and the Disney WoW disc. I think the combination of both, with the random in-menu "wipe" and regular TV watching, I am now IR free! It is my opinion, also, that it was: BAD! I'm no professional, but i think even one of them would have agreed. It did take a while, but i muddled through (did I have a choice? lol)
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post #10996 of 13052 Old 01-06-2014, 09:54 PM
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I do, however, have a question:

When I play a particular game which requires no self-preservation or precision play (Full House Poker etc.), I will go back to Custom Picture mode, with Contrast at 0, Br at 0. color at 0 (makes b&w), Tint 0, Sh 0,
CATS, NR, Vivid off;

Pro
No sub-menu alterations, but top menu all Dnice's and Cnet settings; Game mode On, the rest the suggested p55st60 settings.

Any way to tone down the white even MORE? I don't really need to see much.
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post #10997 of 13052 Old 01-06-2014, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Will any wireless keyboard work on the ST60 and can I use it to type in searches for Netflix and Vudu? The remote app won't let me type searches in for these and it's very annoying using the remote.

No. The panel does not have a bluetooth "receiver". (The 3d glasses do use bluetooth - but that's the extent of BT in this panel.
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post #10998 of 13052 Old 01-06-2014, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gasdag View Post

Regarding Disney WOW- I see a 2 disc Blu Ray and a 1 disc Blu Ray. Anyone know what's on the second disc, and if it's worth it?
Just videos I believe. You only need the single disc.
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post #10999 of 13052 Old 01-07-2014, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Bombard View Post

My 50ST60 is also dead quiet, even with my head next to the plasma's back. There have been many folks here that have posted that their Pannys are also dead quiet so if a plasma is buzzing, I couldn't consider this to be normal and at the very least would be contacting Panasonic to complain about it. I know I'd be complaining,, whether or not it'll do any good is another question.

But of course if you want to consider buzzing to be normal, then I guess that makes it easier to just accept it. smile.gif

I've got four plasmas, they all buzz. One of them is five years old and one is six years old, neither has ever been repaired or had any problems.

Keep trying to convince yourself it's a problem.
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post #11000 of 13052 Old 01-07-2014, 01:20 AM
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I've got four plasmas, they all buzz. One of them is five years old and one is six years old, neither has ever been repaired or had any problems.

Keep trying to convince yourself it's a problem.

So long as all those buzzin' plasma's are in your house and not in mine, it's not a problem for me. biggrin.gif
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post #11001 of 13052 Old 01-07-2014, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Will any wireless keyboard work on the ST60 and can I use it to type in searches for Netflix and Vudu? The remote app won't let me type searches in for these and it's very annoying using the remote.

Both of my Logitech wireless PC keyboards work.
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post #11002 of 13052 Old 01-07-2014, 01:44 AM
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Both of my Logitech wireless PC keyboards work.

 

What models are your Logitech keyboards ?

 

Wifi without an adapter ?

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post #11003 of 13052 Old 01-07-2014, 03:23 AM
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What models are your Logitech keyboards ?

Wifi without an adapter ?

K260 and K360. Just put the USB receiver in one of the TV's ports and that's it.
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post #11004 of 13052 Old 01-07-2014, 03:33 AM
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I wish ST60 had better Media Player. This TV dominates in pretty much every area, my only grip is very poor UI.. especially noticeable in media player. I'd like to hear a logical explanation behind the tile view of the media player folders/files. I wish they would make it possible to change it to a list or something. Also, it seems to ignore the folder structure.
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post #11005 of 13052 Old 01-07-2014, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc_G View Post

I'm about 2.5 months into owning my 60ST60, and loving it.

I have been poking around with the picture settings and have a general question, not specific to the Panny, but dependent on it in some ways:

For someone who doesn't have the equipment to do a calibration or the interest in spending money on a pro calibration, how do we know when to adjust say the overall Gamma, or the More Detail Gamma, or the High/Low RGB, or the more detail color items? It seems to me there's overlap, and I'm not sure which is the best to use to have various effects. I've got the WOW and AVS discs, and have done basic brightness/contrast settings appropriately, but from there it gets a bit dicey since it seems each TV brand / model has a different subset of available settings, so most online guides aren't detailed enough to follow to get a good understanding of when to tweak say gamma settings versus other things.

After leaving things stable for two weeks, I decided my mid tones were a bit dull. Say, faces in an interior-lit room. My brights were very bright (perhaps, too bright, but I like 'em!) and my darks were nice and black with good shadow detail. I wound up bumping up by two points the Low Red/Green/Blue setting. It helped, but I'm not sure if it was the "best" way to achieve the effect. I'll leave it be a week or so and decide if anything else needs to be bumped. But at this point, I'm not sure which control to use... eek.gif

Again, these are all very "first world" sort of issues to deal with. The picture is awesome... it's just fun to poke at it and see if I can improve things.

Can anyone refer me to some links that I should peruse, that would talk about which control to use when, that line up well with the controls we have on the ST60?

Thanks!

Marc

Without a meter and calibration software, making changes to the advanced settings (detailed gamma, detailed RGB, etc.) is a crap-shoot.

Sure you can fiddle with things, and maybe get things looking better (to your eyes), but without a meter and software I would recommend sticking with the main controls and leaving the detailed settings at their defaults. While you can't really hurt anything, and you can always reset back to defaults, it would likely wind up wasting a lot of your time without getting much (if any) benefit.
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post #11006 of 13052 Old 01-07-2014, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snidely View Post

No. The panel does not have a bluetooth "receiver". (The 3d glasses do use bluetooth - but that's the extent of BT in this panel.



Yes but can't you plug the small receiver into the USB port and it will work that way?
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post #11007 of 13052 Old 01-07-2014, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samijubal View Post

Both of my Logitech wireless PC keyboards work.



Good news thanks, I had my eye on one of the Logitechs.
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post #11008 of 13052 Old 01-07-2014, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esdee View Post

I wish ST60 had better Media Player. This TV dominates in pretty much every area, my only grip is very poor UI.. especially noticeable in media player. I'd like to hear a logical explanation behind the tile view of the media player folders/files. I wish they would make it possible to change it to a list or something. Also, it seems to ignore the folder structure.

I guess everyone is using external media player nowdays.
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post #11009 of 13052 Old 01-07-2014, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by esdee View Post

I guess everyone is using external media player nowdays.
Pretty much. There are so many options nowadays that are way better.
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post #11010 of 13052 Old 01-07-2014, 08:36 AM
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@NCCaniac, @cyberbri and @nickos99 :

Thanks a lot for the details about the slides and lag. Not sure if I'll run the slides myself as I don't have any intention to perform a pro calibration on the set. I'll probably wait a few weeks before tweaking the settings from a calibration disk or something.

However this has me looking more intently at my older 46S1 and on uniform, bright backgrounds, I can see some image retention (or perhaps it's just plasma cell non-uniformity). I can see vertical bands corresponding to where 4:3 content inset. I guess it's normal for a 5-year old TV (and this is not visible on most content such as when watching a movie). But are the slides supposed to help with that?

As for gaming, I'm far past playing competitively so as long as I can enjoy single-player from time to time, it will be great biggrin.gif

Looks like the 60ST60 is almost the same weight as my 46S1, and with the smaller bezel, I should be able to install it on the same mount without a problem. I'll get it next saturday...

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