Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 01:36 PM
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50ST60 just got set up. Family room, middle of a sunny day still looks great. Ran through Monster's Inc. Blu-ray, looks fantastic. Home Theatre and Cinema settings great starting points. No swivel stand, btw. Auto searching through broadcast channels, no IR that I could see. Screen wipe scrolls until button is pressed on remote. Tonight will be movie night. smile.gif

Need to figure out what these 48, 60, 96 Mhz settings do, only for 24fps input? I tried a Casino Royal disk at 24p and switched tv to 48 and flashing was really noticeable, 60 and 96 were fine.

TV 2D -> 3D conversion on Monster's Inc was nasty. No big deal, just playing. I may run the screen wipe over night just for kicks.
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post #1082 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkwi View Post

50ST60 just got set up. Family room, middle of a sunny day still looks great. Ran through Monster's Inc. Blu-ray, looks fantastic. Home Theatre and Cinema settings great starting points. No swivel stand, btw. Auto searching through broadcast channels, no IR that I could see. Screen wipe scrolls until button is pressed on remote. Tonight will be movie night. smile.gif

Need to figure out what these 48, 60, 96 Mhz settings do, only for 24fps input? I tried a Casino Royal disk at 24p and switched tv to 48 and flashing was really noticeable, 60 and 96 were fine.

TV 2D -> 3D conversion on Monster's Inc was nasty. No big deal, just playing. I may run the screen wipe over night just for kicks.

Since 96 is evenly divided by 24 that mode is supposed to play 24p based film the smoothest but 60 looks fine for most ppl. But for those extremely annoyed by flicker 96 would be the best setting. I posted a couple days ago that I saw a little flicker on the end credits of a movie at 60hz but it went away with 96 but I couldn't see the flicker either way while the actual movie was playing
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post #1083 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 02:40 PM
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Should color gamut be set to normal or native? Native seems to "add" a more vivid color, so Im assuming normal is the preferred setting.
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post #1084 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 02:48 PM
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Anyone know if David Mackenzie's measurements were the same as Chad B's on the black level. Im wondering if the uk sts are the same as US st models

So, numbers! How does 0.005 cd/m2 sound? Yep, this £900 plasma television can produce a shade of black so deep that it’s only second to the reigning champion, the (we’re sorry to keep talking about these) discontinued Pioneer KURO plasma displays which were many times more expensive. Keep in mind that such a deep shade of black is actually unmeasurably low and confuses most calibration instruments: the blacks on the TX-P42ST60B are so dark that most devices can’t even register them. Our Klein K-10 is one of few that can, so keep this in mind if you hear the black level on this TV quoted as something like “0.02″ or “0.03″ – it’s in fact much lower.

Chads was .00232 fL. Davids was o.005 cd/ms. are these = ?
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post #1085 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sl1ac View Post

The review for the ST60 is available on Plasma Tv Buying Guide. (Sorry but the link will not post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post

Thanks for the heads up. I'm glad to see every good point I mentioned was confirmed by this review and it wasn't my enthusiasm speaking!!! And there is real world lag testing GO CRAZY!!! Lol http://reviews.*******************.com/panasonic-plasma-tv/panasonic-tcp60st60.html

Thanks.
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post #1086 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by hotskins View Post

Anyone know if David Mackenzie's measurements were the same as Chad B's on the black level. Im wondering if the uk sts are the same as US st models

So, numbers! How does 0.005 cd/m2 sound? Yep, this £900 plasma television can produce a shade of black so deep that it’s only second to the reigning champion, the (we’re sorry to keep talking about these) discontinued Pioneer KURO plasma displays which were many times more expensive. Keep in mind that such a deep shade of black is actually unmeasurably low and confuses most calibration instruments: the blacks on the TX-P42ST60B are so dark that most devices can’t even register them. Our Klein K-10 is one of few that can, so keep this in mind if you hear the black level on this TV quoted as something like “0.02″ or “0.03″ – it’s in fact much lower.

Chads was .00232 fL. Davids was o.005 cd/ms. are these = ?

good question.
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post #1087 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 03:19 PM
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1 foot lambert = 3.426 cdm2, so no they are not equal. 0.005cd/m2 = ~0.0015fL. I expect the ST60's on avg to measure in the upper 0.001x - 0.002 range, a bit lower than what the ST50s measure (low to high 0.002x range). For another point of reference, the VT50s measure ~0.002 or slightly higher depending on panel size.
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post #1088 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 03:25 PM
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Maybe the Klein K-10 measures more accurately like David says in his post.
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post #1089 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

1 foot lambert = 3.426 cdm2, so no they are not equal. 0.005cd/m2 = ~0.0015fL. I expect the ST60's on avg to measure in the upper 0.001x - 0.002 range, slightly lower than what the ST50s measure (low to high 0.002x range). For another point of reference, the VT50s measure ~0.002 or slightly higher depending on panel size.

Chad was using a different luminance meter than David, so his results are less accurate. I think the Klein K-10 is the best meter there is, which David uses. Looking like the ST60 and VT60 will be in at 0.001x.

I have no idea how Steve Withers over at AVForums got 0.002 cd/m2 using the same meter as David.

"If you weren't such an ignorant troll, you'd be adorable" -rogo
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post #1090 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 03:32 PM
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For anybody concerned about input lag I am looking to sell my 60ST50 to move to one of the 60 series. Since I don't game on the TV this isn't a concern for me. PM for details if willing or able to pick up in Portland Oregon area.
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post #1091 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post

Chad was using a different luminance meter than David, so his results are less accurate. I think the Klein K-10 is the best meter there is, which David uses. Looking like the ST60 and VT60 will be in at 0.001x.

I have no idea how Steve Withers over at AVForums got 0.002 cd/m2 using the same meter as David.
The C6 / i1D3 has been shown to be accurate down to 0.001fL, but indeed I would trust the Klein over Chad's C6 for low-light readings. But also keep in mind that David's review is obviously of the EUR model.

And just so everyone is clear and not to make it seem like Chad's equipment is off, Chad only uses his (profiled) C6 for low-light / black level measuring AFAIK because it can read lower than his Jeti spectro. He uses his Jeti for his calibrations, which is very good.
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post #1092 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 03:54 PM
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I know this is the ST60 forum, but talking to the manager today at Video Only, he stated that they are getting a "very large shipment of new Panasonic plasma TV's next week" (I actually saw his "incoming shipment" paperwork). He, himself was not sure exactly what models they are getting in, but said he was almost 100% sure (considering they already have ST60's in stock) they are getting the VT60's in! Take it with a grain of salt if you want, I just thought I'd give a heads up to anyone interested in this info.
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post #1093 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 04:32 PM
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FWIW... The calibration settings on the PLASMA TV BUYING GUIDE review seem to be trash (at least for my st60) it was so red that between commercials where the screen should be all black mine was dark maroon. Went to a cable channel that I don't subscribe to in order to get a black screen and it was obviously extremely red... So I flipped thru the picture presets... They were all jet black. I remember their settings for the st50 being trash too. My opinion of course.
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post #1094 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post

FWIW... The calibration settings on the PLASMA TV BUYING GUIDE review seem to be trash (at least for my st60) it was so red that between commercials where the screen should be all black mine was dark maroon. Went to a cable channel that I don't subscribe to in order to get a black screen and it was obviously extremely red... So I flipped thru the picture presets... They were all jet black. I remember their settings for the st50 being trash too. My opinion of course.

Yeah, I don't think that site is very reliable.

I remember looking at the GT50 settings from them last year and I just laughed. I didn't even try them because I could tell just by looking at them how off they were.

So no surprise here.
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post #1095 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post

FWIW... The calibration settings on the PLASMA TV BUYING GUIDE review seem to be trash (at least for my st60) it was so red that between commercials where the screen should be all black mine was dark maroon. Went to a cable channel that I don't subscribe to in order to get a black screen and it was obviously extremely red... So I flipped thru the picture presets... They were all jet black. I remember their settings for the st50 being trash too. My opinion of course.

They are the same ones posted in this thread without attribution to that site:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1466823/custom-calibration-settings-for-tc-pst60-here-you-guys-go

My 50ST60 behaved like yours when I tried them, which I did out of pure curiosity. My immediate thought was, "I guess the person who did these didn't even look at the basic AVS709 patterns before publishing his calibration." Obvious problems are rampant throughout black/APL/white clipping and color bars. This was yesterday, but I recall the black levels extended down to 14 or so with a heavy reddish tint, the white levels were also heavily tinted, and the color bars were completely out of whack.

BTW, to search for that site, I had to open my other Firefox profile in which I haven't used the excellent Google Hit Hider to block all search results for the site.
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post #1096 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 04:52 PM
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It's getting dark out so we checked the TV with some blu-ray source. Black levels are striking! Nice.

Looking through the manual but how the heck do I ditch this power ON to HOME screen and go right to current source? I'm worried one of my kids will turn it on and leave it on the HOME screen.
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post #1097 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkwi View Post

It's getting dark out so we checked the TV with some blu-ray source. Black levels are striking! Nice.

Looking through the manual but how the heck do I ditch this power ON to HOME screen and go right to current source? I'm worried one of my kids will turn it on and leave it on the HOME screen.

Push the home button screen to pull up the banner, push home again. Than select the "full screen tv" option all the way to the left.
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post #1098 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkwi View Post

It's getting dark out so we checked the TV with some blu-ray source. Black levels are striking! Nice.

Looking through the manual but how the heck do I ditch this power ON to HOME screen and go right to current source? I'm worried one of my kids will turn it on and leave it on the HOME screen.

When you turn the set on up at the top click the home screen selection button then choose full screen as your home screen
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post #1099 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

They are the same ones posted in this thread without attribution to that site:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1466823/custom-calibration-settings-for-tc-pst60-here-you-guys-go

My 50ST60 behaved like yours when I tried them, which I did out of pure curiosity. My immediate thought was, "I guess the person who did these didn't even look at the basic AVS709 patterns before publishing his calibration." Obvious problems are rampant throughout black/APL/white clipping and color bars. This was yesterday, but I recall the black levels extended down to 14 or so with a heavy reddish tint, the white levels were also heavily tinted, and the color bars were completely out of whack.

BTW, to search for that site, I had to open my other Firefox profile in which I haven't used the excellent Google Hit Hider to block all search results for the site.
I used the settings from your link and didn't see anything like you guys. I'm currently watching the Final Four and the colors are excellent and the blacks and whites look phenomenal. Black screens are very black.


The IR on this set is almost non existent. The last 2 weeks of the basketball tournament would result in IR from the score bar with my Samsung C8000.
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post #1100 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 05:43 PM
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I used the settings from your link and didn't see anything like you guys. I'm currently watching the Final Four and the colors are excellent and the blacks and whites look phenomenal. Black screens are very black.


The IR on this set is almost non existent. The last 2 weeks of the basketball tournament would result in IR from the score bar with my Samsung C8000.

Try an all black screen (not the "no signal" screen) and flip from custom to the other modes if you don't see the red hue these panels really do vary a great deal between one another cuz the red on mine is very apparent
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post #1101 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post

Try an all black screen (not the "no signal" screen) and flip from custom to the other modes if you don't see the red hue these panels really do vary a great deal between one another cuz the red on mine is very apparent

I've tried black between commercials and also Cars 2 opening scene which is a night scene with nice deep blacks...no tint. I'm no pro like a lot of you guys, but I'm a PQ snob. wink.gif

Edited to add... Watching Prometheus on HBO and blacks look excellent.
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post #1102 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmaace01 View Post

I've tried black between commercials and also Cars 2 opening scene which is a night scene with nice deep blacks...no tint. I'm no pro like a lot of you guys, but I'm a PQ snob. wink.gif

Edited to add... Watching Prometheus on HBO and blacks look excellent.

Trust me I'm a noob too. But yeah that means our sets are waaay different
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post #1103 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmaace01 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post

Try an all black screen (not the "no signal" screen) and flip from custom to the other modes if you don't see the red hue these panels really do vary a great deal between one another cuz the red on mine is very apparent

I've tried black between commercials and also Cars 2 opening scene which is a night scene with nice deep blacks...no tint. I'm no pro like a lot of you guys, but I'm a PQ snob. wink.gif

Edited to add... Watching Prometheus on HBO and blacks look excellent.

Try the AVS709 patterns I mentioned. The tint problems were plain as day with the monochrome patterns that are used to assess brightness and contrast. They were less consistently observed in real content. If you try this, I'm going to state the obvious about making sure the settings are in effect during playback, because they won't automatically transfer to different inputs.
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post #1104 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by RobMueller10 View Post

Should color gamut be set to normal or native? Native seems to "add" a more vivid color, so Im assuming normal is the preferred setting.

Rob, Normal is actually what you want. When I measured, Normal was very close to the plot points for the CIE chart, but Native expanded green too far and put red off a bit.
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post #1105 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmaace01 View Post

I've tried black between commercials and also Cars 2 opening scene which is a night scene with nice deep blacks...no tint. I'm no pro like a lot of you guys, but I'm a PQ snob. wink.gif

Edited to add... Watching Prometheus on HBO and blacks look excellent.

Trust me I'm a noob too. But yeah that means our sets are waaay different
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post #1106 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

Try the AVS709 patterns I mentioned. The tint problems were plain as day with the monochrome patterns that are used to assess brightness and contrast. They were less consistently observed in real content. If you try this, I'm going to state the obvious about making sure the settings are in effect during playback, because they won't automatically transfer to different inputs.

I have to use the mp4 version, but which section should I try?
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post #1107 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sigmaace01 View Post

I have to use the mp4 version, but which section should I try?

In the Basic Settings folder, look at:

1-Black Clipping.mp4
3-White Clipping.mp4

If you have a blue filter to look through, try:

4-Flashing Color Bars.mp4
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post #1108 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 06:37 PM
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I have to use the mp4 version, but which section should I try?

5, 10, 15, and 20% full screen gray for near black grayscale purity.

Larry
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post #1109 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

In the Basic Settings folder, look at:

1-Black Clipping.mp4
3-White Clipping.mp4

If you have a blue filter to look through, try:

4-Flashing Color Bars.mp4
1. 15-25 blinking.
3. 230-245

That's bad, huh? I wish I knew what to adjust.
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post #1110 of 12662 Old 04-06-2013, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
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1. 15-25 blinking.
3. 230-245

That's bad, huh? I wish I knew what to adjust.
Set the Brightness control so that 16 remains black and 17 is barely visible in the black clipping pattern. Sounds like your Brightness is set a bit too high.

For the white clipping pattern there's a little more to it. Use the Contrast control on your ST60 and set it as high as you can so that at the very least 235 and below are flashing. If you find that the picture is too bright, lower it so that you don't experience eye fatigue.

The AVSHD709 pattern manual can be found here.

edit: I jumped into this discussion late... the above is simply how to set Brightness and Contrast.
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