Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 379 - AVS Forum
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post #11341 of 12752 Old 01-21-2014, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Playdrv4me View Post

Didn't you also post this in the VT thread? Same info applies here, basically. Be very careful with ESPN used displays, and really, you need to ask for the remote and get the hours off the set. This takes 2 seconds to do.

I did. I have an opportunity to purchase either set. I'm going to go back and look at the hours, as you suggested today. I'm not sure that I'm going to pull the trigger on either at this point. The risk may be to great for future problems.
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post #11342 of 12752 Old 01-21-2014, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoooth View Post

I have a quick question. There is a ST 65 at my local HH Gregg floor display. I was unable to see the hours logged... my guess very high. Salesman said that ESPN is on a majority of the days, sometimes movies and the set is run at Vivid settings. Price would be roughly $1500.00 plus tax.

What would be the best way to check for IR on the set? Would the fact that ESPN has been played so much lend itself to future IR?

I wasn't sure where to check for the hours on the set... I do now thanks to the forums. So I can't answer to that.

Thank you.'

I bought my 65ST60 from HHG on Friday, exactly the same situation. I had the salesman run the rolling white screen and could see some IR in the lower right corner from a dts logo. Bought it anyway! When I read here where to find the hours I was shocked to only find 397 hours on it. The logo is already fading and only noticeable on a solid yellow screen now, you sure don't see that much in regular viewing!
Anyway, if it's your only chance at a ST60, show the manager the IR and talk him down. Mine was 1398 out the door. Good luck!

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post #11343 of 12752 Old 01-21-2014, 09:33 AM
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Let me ask you guys about the last firmware update. My set has a March 2013 build date and I have absolutely no issues with it as is. From what I've read there's some sort of fix for 3D which I won't be using, does it do anything else?
So, is there any downside to updating the firmware now?

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post #11344 of 12752 Old 01-21-2014, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc_G View Post

I have mine set to standard (16-235), and set my computer to RGB Limited (using an ATI card, there is a setting for pixel format in the AMD control center...other GPU chips have similar settings somewhere). This makes it put out the standard range for video, and all is well for whites / blacks.

Thanks a lot Marc! I've looked and my nVidia card also has a setting for RGB Limited output. Furthermore, I had my PS3 set to "Full Range" too years ago just because it sounded good. I reverted it to Limited, so assuming my cable box outputs RGB Limited too, I shouldn't encounter any other problem.

However, if I'm correct about the TV switching to Nonstandard (0-255) in Auto mode if it encounters out-of-standard-range values, it may very well cause washed out images for many people. If the true black becomes 0 and true white becomes 255, the 16-235 range means it will be displayed as dark charcoal to light gray.

I don't know much about display standard but I wonder why the "standard" uses only 19 bits out of 24.

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post #11345 of 12752 Old 01-21-2014, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoooth View Post

I have a quick question. There is a ST 65 at my local HH Gregg floor display. I was unable to see the hours logged... my guess very high. Salesman said that ESPN is on a majority of the days, sometimes movies and the set is run at Vivid settings. Price would be roughly $1500.00 plus tax.

What would be the best way to check for IR on the set? Would the fact that ESPN has been played so much lend itself to future IR?

I wasn't sure where to check for the hours on the set... I do now thanks to the forums. So I can't answer to that.

Thank you.'

I've had my 60ST60 for a couple months now, and it has been used in the Custom mode, at pretty high contrast settings after a "break in" period. I kept the contrast around 70 for the first few weeks. At this point, there is a very slight image retention of the main ESPN logo that is always at the lower right of the screen. I can only see the logo if the screen is white or very bright in that area. My suspicion is that if they had it on ESPN that much, there is almost certainly some retention or burn in of that logo.

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post #11346 of 12752 Old 01-21-2014, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

I've had my 60ST60 for a couple months now, and it has been used in the Custom mode, at pretty high contrast settings after a "break in" period. I kept the contrast around 70 for the first few weeks. At this point, there is a very slight image retention of the main ESPN logo that is always at the lower right of the screen. I can only see the logo if the screen is white or very bright in that area. My suspicion is that if they had it on ESPN that much, there is almost certainly some retention or burn in of that logo.

I wouldn't rush to the conclusion calling it "burn in" , heavy image retention is more accurate. Burn in takes a long , long , long, long, time of abuse to the tv , static images to permemenantly burn in. Eventhough though logo's are somewhat opaque they can cause image retention. It should be removed over time , how long, well usually as long as the particular image has been on , say example 4hrs a day you watch this channel well then 20hrs a week, it would take the same amount of not watching this particular channel , just using your example of ESPN to get rid of it. I would zoom in the channel that way the logo disappears , yes the picture is stretched but If you can live with it then do it and save the tv from getting any worse with the image retention.
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post #11347 of 12752 Old 01-21-2014, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoooth View Post

I have a quick question. There is a ST 65 at my local HH Gregg floor display. I was unable to see the hours logged... my guess very high. Salesman said that ESPN is on a majority of the days, sometimes movies and the set is run at Vivid settings. Price would be roughly $1500.00 plus tax.

What would be the best way to check for IR on the set? Would the fact that ESPN has been played so much lend itself to future IR?

I wasn't sure where to check for the hours on the set... I do now thanks to the forums. So I can't answer to that.

Thank you.'
You could put up a full field 100 % white pattern from one of the calibration disks , AVS HD 709 is free to download . This pattern should reveal if there is any IR. I would also try lower % full field patterns as well which might help show the IR easier.
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post #11348 of 12752 Old 01-22-2014, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by hungro View Post

You could put up a full field 100 % white pattern from one of the calibration disks , AVS HD 709 is free to download . This pattern should reveal if there is any IR. I would also try lower % full field patterns as well which might help show the IR easier.

Thanks. I am going to do that this weekend. I appreciate the advice. I really wouldn't have thought of that.
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post #11349 of 12752 Old 01-22-2014, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoooth View Post

Thanks. I am going to do that this weekend. I appreciate the advice. I really wouldn't have thought of that.

It will also show up on the built in screen wipe

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post #11350 of 12752 Old 01-22-2014, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by hungro View Post

You could put up a full field 100 % white pattern from one of the calibration disks , AVS HD 709 is free to download . This pattern should reveal if there is any IR. I would also try lower % full field patterns as well which might help show the IR easier.

The lower % fields do work better in my experience. For my 50ST60, the best pattern for showing logo IR like ESPN is by far the AVS APL Clipping pattern. The ESPN logo and remnants of the ST60 menu show up along the bottom even when they don't show up in the same area in White Clipping or in full fields of near-white. Must be some strange ABL effect. (I've been viewing it in Custom mode at Contrast 67.)
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post #11351 of 12752 Old 01-22-2014, 11:53 AM
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Geez, I haven't been paying attention lately to the AV news and just learned that Panny was dropping it's plasmas. I panicked (naturally), found out my local Sears had one TC-P60ST60 left, and nabbed it! cool.gif

By the size of this thread it looks like I've got some reading to do! biggrin.gif
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post #11352 of 12752 Old 01-22-2014, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by turkeylord View Post

Geez, I haven't been paying attention lately to the AV news and just learned that Panny was dropping it's plasmas. I panicked (naturally), found out my local Sears had one TC-P60ST60 left, and nabbed it! cool.gif

By the size of this thread it looks like I've got some reading to do! biggrin.gif



You lucked out congrats! They are all but gone.
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post #11353 of 12752 Old 01-22-2014, 03:42 PM
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Geez, I haven't been paying attention lately to the AV news and just learned that Panny was dropping it's plasmas. I panicked (naturally), found out my local Sears had one TC-P60ST60 left, and nabbed it! cool.gif

By the size of this thread it looks like I've got some reading to do! biggrin.gif

Enjoy! Do the slides for break in for the first 100 hrs. I did and my screen is absolutely flawless. I also got the last new 60ST60 at any sears in my area, was it also $1499 for you? I keep checking back to see if they adjust the price at all, I've had it about 3 weeks now.
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post #11354 of 12752 Old 01-22-2014, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by gasdag View Post

I also got the last new 60ST60 at any sears in my area, was it also $1499 for you? I keep checking back to see if they adjust the price at all, I've had it about 3 weeks now.

I had a Sharp 60" LCD, and my living room is kinda small, and the TV bezel was actually overhanging the door jams a little, getting bumped into a lot, and I was seeing quite a bit of pixelation on 1080i football. I opted for the 55" ST60, since it physically fit perfectly, and thought maybe the 5" smaller size might make the pixelation less noticable, which is has for sure. Mine was $1450 I believe, which was list price minus $150 sale price, plus 10% tax...at my local Sears. They didnt have any other sizes left here. I was actually lucky to find a 55", since Amazon and Best Buy had sold out already at the time.
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post #11355 of 12752 Old 01-22-2014, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gasdag View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by turkeylord View Post

Geez, I haven't been paying attention lately to the AV news and just learned that Panny was dropping it's plasmas. I panicked (naturally), found out my local Sears had one TC-P60ST60 left, and nabbed it! cool.gif

By the size of this thread it looks like I've got some reading to do! biggrin.gif

Enjoy! Do the slides for break in for the first 100 hrs. I did and my screen is absolutely flawless. I also got the last new 60ST60 at any sears in my area, was it also $1499 for you? I keep checking back to see if they adjust the price at all, I've had it about 3 weeks now.

Or skip the slides because they don't really do anything for your TV except allow you to artificially age it faster so you can have it professionally calibrated sooner rather than later. smile.gif
Just plug it in, enjoy it, and be careful with static logos / scoreboards (and letterbox / pillarbox bars) for the first 100~ hours.
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post #11356 of 12752 Old 01-22-2014, 05:16 PM
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+1. Enjoyed my ST from the first day like this, with contrast at 80, and after 500 hours my screen remains absolutely perfect in every respect.
But do whatever makes you feel better smile.gif
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post #11357 of 12752 Old 01-22-2014, 07:46 PM
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Awesome, thanks for the advice guys. Yes, it was $1499. I set it up with the Cnet calibration and it looks fantastic. biggrin.gif
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post #11358 of 12752 Old 01-22-2014, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimreeves View Post

I bought my 65ST60 from HHG on Friday, exactly the same situation. I had the salesman run the rolling white screen and could see some IR in the lower right corner from a dts logo. Bought it anyway! When I read here where to find the hours I was shocked to only find 397 hours on it. The logo is already fading and only noticeable on a solid yellow screen now, you sure don't see that much in regular viewing!
Anyway, if it's your only chance at a ST60, show the manager the IR and talk him down. Mine was 1398 out the door. Good luck!
Wow, great price !! I would have bought it too......
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post #11359 of 12752 Old 01-22-2014, 10:06 PM
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My old Samsung LCD TV just died and went to the local Fry's yesterday to check out possible replacement options. Then bumped into a $1599 floor model P65ST60. Without knowing a single thing about plasma or ST60 or burn-in, I bought it... mostly because the picture quality looked great and the sales person made me believe it is a great deal (they said it was almost new and was put up during Christmas). I didn't even give it a thorough check or asked about about the 3D glasses.
 
After my craziness and brought it home, I found ir/burn-in on the corners. It has a "SONY" on the top left, a logo on the top right, another logo on the bottom right... They are apparent on light backgrounds. I then read everything about the burn-in, plasma, ST60 on this forum and this post. (A little too late...) Ran the screen swipe overnight but didn't see any noticeable change. It also has 2230 hours on it and has been turned on 190 times. Apparently it was put up months before Christmas.
 
I have 30 days to decide if I will keep it or not. I've never spent over 800 for a TV... so spending $1600 on a set with the burn-ins and 2000 hours seems wrong. But it seems ST60 series so worth the money and it looks like it is hard to find another P65ST60.
 
Any suggestion? Any other good options at this price point? Samsung LED?
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post #11360 of 12752 Old 01-22-2014, 10:48 PM
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Any suggestion? Any other good options at this price point? Samsung LED?

If you can tolerate the worse black levels and uniformity, go with an LCD. But give screen wipe and maybe a pixel flipper more of a chance first.
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post #11361 of 12752 Old 01-23-2014, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelxyz View Post

Any suggestion? Any other good options at this price point? Samsung LED?

If you can tolerate the worse black levels and uniformity, go with an LCD. But give screen wipe and maybe a pixel flipper more of a chance first.
I agree. Also, the hours are not a problem. A lot of people here think that the Disney Wow disk's pixel flipper does a better job with image retention. I would run that full time except when you are enjoying your TV. During that time I wouldn't watch anything with black bars or fixed images. Why not use your return period to find out what you actually bought.

On the other hand, you shouldn't buy any product if you're not comfortable with the price, and you might be just as happy with a Samsung LCD/LED. By the way, the LED part provides the light (think projector lamp), and the LCD part makes the images and color.

Here is some information about IR that you might want to read. Another good principle is to ask first. wink.gif

Two Types of IR - Part I

Two Types of IR - Part II

Avoid and Remove IR.

Enjoy. smile.gif
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post #11362 of 12752 Old 01-23-2014, 09:46 AM
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Thanks htwaits~ These are really helpful! I am looping Pixar's Up full time right now and will get the Disney WoW disc for its pixel flipper. The picture quality on this set is making me hopeful. :)

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post #11363 of 12752 Old 01-23-2014, 06:12 PM
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I can see why mfrs. are abandoning plasma. Plasma is the Ferrari or Lamborghini of TV displays. They require more than the usual care in driving (simply turning on and watching) as witnessed by the 300+ pages posted here of problems and specialized settings that aren't necessary on "regular" TV panels.
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post #11364 of 12752 Old 01-23-2014, 06:13 PM
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Thanks htwaits~ These are really helpful! I am looping Pixar's Up full time right now and will get the Disney WoW disc for its pixel flipper. The picture quality on this set is making me hopeful. smile.gif
You're welcome. You have plenty of time within your return period. Also, is IR really a deal killer if you can't see it during normal viewing? wink.gif
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post #11365 of 12752 Old 01-23-2014, 06:35 PM
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How do you check the hours on your television?

Panasonic TC-P50ST60 plasma HD television, Onkyo TX-SR805 and PIONEER ELITE VSX-47TX receivers, Klipsch RB-75(2 pair) and RB-61 bookshelf speakers, Klipsch RSW-10, RSW-12(2), Velodyne HGS-12, HGS-18 subwoofers, PS3 80G, PIONEER DV-525 dvd player, Klipsch RS-42 surrounds, Klipsch RC-52 center channel
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post #11366 of 12752 Old 01-23-2014, 06:44 PM
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How do you check the hours on your television?


Menu - Help - Version - Status4, first set of numbers are the hours, mine is C3819-00000 or 3819 hours running time.
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post #11367 of 12752 Old 01-24-2014, 07:55 AM
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With the VT60 I have read that using somebody else's settings is no better, and in most cases, worse than the THX settings.

With no THX setting on the ST60, and without copying someone's else's settings, and no ISF calibration for now, what are the better/best settings to use to start with?
Which discs should be used to calibrate the ST60? Disney WOW? Spears and Munsil? AVS HD 709?
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post #11368 of 12752 Old 01-24-2014, 08:52 AM
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With the VT60 I have read that using somebody else's settings is no better, and in most cases, worse than the THX settings.

With no THX setting on the ST60, and without copying someone's else's settings, and no ISF calibration for now, what are the better/best settings to use to start with?
Which discs should be used to calibrate the ST60? Disney WOW? Spears and Munsil? AVS HD 709?

Why don't you just try all the posted settings you can find and make your own mind as to the picture quality instaed of putting all your trust in reading about what you're not going to like? Or you could use them disks and do your own eyeball calibration, something I personally hate doing myself. Hey, if the internet posted calibration setting aren't an improvement over the default settings or you're simply not happy with the picture, you've lost nothing as you can always set them back to default. But at least try them and see for yourself instead of believing what you read from other opinionated folks. Afterall, you really only need to please you.

Just my opinionated thoughts as someone who had great success using DNice's posted Custom picture settings and CNET's Cinama mode settings on my ST60. And today, very shortly in fact, I'm having Jim Doolittle from Watham, Ma. do a full calibration of my 50ST60, not because I have to but because I want to,,, Big Difference! smile.gif
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post #11369 of 12752 Old 01-24-2014, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Robin Bombard View Post

Why don't you just try all the posted settings you can find and make your own mind as to the picture quality instaed of putting all your trust in reading about what you're not going to like? Or you could use them disks and do your own eyeball calibration, something I personally hate doing myself. Hey, if the internet posted calibration setting aren't an improvement over the default settings or you're simply not happy with the picture, you've lost nothing as you can always set them back to default. But at least try them and see for yourself instead of believing what you read from other opinionated folks. Afterall, you really only need to please you.

Just my opinionated thoughts as someone who had great success using DNice's posted Custom picture settings and CNET's Cinama mode settings on my ST60. And today, very shortly in fact, I'm having Jim Doolittle from Watham, Ma. do a full calibration of my 50ST60, not because I have to but because I want to,,, Big Difference! smile.gif

This is for my friends 65ST60. I just wondered where it was best to start. I actually have D-nice settings on my own 60ST30 ...I put them in 2 years ago after D-nice slide prep and they look ok, but...I think all of our sets would look best with a calibration. Guess I'll just start tinkering away on my set and help my friend with his. Although since I asked this question, he has said he is happy switching between the D-nice and Cnet settings. Hasn't decided which he likes best yet. Anyways, I hear what you're saying.
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post #11370 of 12752 Old 01-24-2014, 09:25 AM
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These are all the settings you really need to worry about. You can mess with other people's detailed color/gamma settings, but they have nothing to do with getting a good or accurate picture on your own TV (although "liking" the different look of the picture is a personal and subjective thing) making them no more than a random set of numbers.


Picture
Picture Mode: Custom or Cinema
Contrast: 80
Brightness: 0 (this varies, could be -1 ~ 0 ~ +1 ~ +2 -- there's no way of knowing without a test disc)
Color: 50 (between Custom and Cinema, one is a little over-saturated in colors, one is slightly under, so you can notch Color up or down a few notches to your liking)
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0~30
Color Temp: Warm2
Vivid Color: Off
C.A.T.S: Off
Video NR: Off
MPEG NR: Off
Motion Smoother: Off


Pro Settings
Panel Brightness: Mid
AGC: 0
Black Extension: 0
Color Gamut: Normal

Gamma Detail Adjustment
Gamma: 2.4

HDMI Content Type
***Leave settings in this menu at their default***

HDMI/DVI RGB Range
***Leave settings in this menu at their default***

Black Level: Light


*Remember to auto-copy settings from one input over to the others, otherwise you'll have to do it manually per input.
cyberbri is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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