Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

So the ST50 is mediocre in comparison in your opinion ?

If there is general consensus the pic is soft and I was annoyed by it why would I keep it. I've never wanted to love something and just couldn't like my st50. Regardless of cnet and all the experts it didn't matter once I sat on my couch and had to look at a near blurry picture. I heard all kinds of tags "film like" " true life display" whatever technical name ppl tried to give this "defect" it drove me crazy so on my 30th day it went back. The new set is on point so in my eyes I win. I got what I wanted if your happy with yours that's great I just felt underwhelmed and buyers remorse was around the corner
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post #92 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post

I read a lot of your posts and you commented on some of mine the month I had the 50. Your gonna be sad. 60 is SHARP and punchy! Shadow detail is also better. I watched the dark knight rises a million times while fiddling with my 50. The scene where he talks to Selina in the dark subway tunnel has tons more detail on the 60. More contrast so nothing ever looks dim. Like watching golf on the 50 with gamma at 2.6 it made a bright sunny day dim. So far the 60 really is coming near perfect knocking out every bothersome issue I had with the 50.

edit- nm if anything smaller would be perceived as sharper (wondering if impact of bigger size isn't affecting your impression vs. the 55st50 you looked at)

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Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post

If there is general consensus the pic is soft and I was annoyed by it why would I keep it. I've never wanted to love something and just couldn't like my st50. Regardless of cnet and all the experts it didn't matter once I sat on my couch and had to look at a near blurry picture. I heard all kinds of tags "film like" " true life display" whatever technical name ppl tried to give this "defect" it drove me crazy so on my 30th day it went back. The new set is on point so in my eyes I win. I got what I wanted if your happy with yours that's great I just felt underwhelmed and buyers remorse was around the corner

Doesn't sound like it, but still that sounds extreme. Either way glad to hear no complaints with the st60. Thanks for the heads up on sears.
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post #93 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post

Buzzing on the st60 is 99% non-existent even on white slides in my dead silent living room I had to move within 3 or 4 inches to hear the barely audible buzz. You would have to be bionic to hear it buzz from a foot away. If all panels are like mine buzzing will be a non-issue this year.

Also sears has the st60's 50" for $999 and the 60" for $1499!!!!! If you want one those are deals BB wants $1149 for a 50" thought this may help someone.

Is that pricing in store only ? Online they are showing the 50" as 1149, and 60 at 1499. Just curious, as I'm looking at the st60 to replace my gt25 panny, which will move to the bedroom.

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post #94 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 08:36 AM
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I just wanted to throw my two cents worth on a couple of points raised above. First, I switched from the ST50 to the ST60 because the ST50 begans turning itself off every 10 minutes after I had it for about 4 weeks. I had no complaints with the picture, although it took a lot of tweaking to get it to where I liked it. My main complaint against it was the TV speakers. It had the worst TV-alone sound of any flat screen I have owned. It was almost unlistenable wthout using my home theatre speaker set up. But I was quite happy and impressed with the picture of the TV before it failed.

After almost 4 days of viewing the ST60 I am now fully convinced it is sharper and clearer (smoother) than the ST50, especially with a 1080i cable box signal. I don't know if I would call the ST50 soft but the new model is noticeably sharper, and that is with going from a 50 inch screen for the ST50 to a 55 inch screen for the ST60. And as I have said before here, the default settings for most of picture modes are the most natural and watchable of any default settings I have seen. In addition, the new model comes with two sets of 3D glasses, something the ST50's lacked. I would also say that the blacks are possibly a little better than the ST50. And the TV speaker sound is way better than the ST50 such that I have watched a few hockey and basketball games without using the home theater set up. And I can detect no buzzing or brightness pops or fluctuations when watching hockey or other scenes with a lot of bright white in them.

As far as I can tell the only negative change is the fact that the stand no longer swivels. I cannot comment on screen reflections because I have it in a dark basement setting. I have noticed no IR to this point.
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post #95 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by betheri View Post

I just wanted to throw my two cents worth on a couple of points raised above. First, I switched from the ST50 to the ST60 because the ST50 begans turning itself off every 10 minutes after I had it for about 4 weeks. I had no complaints with the picture, although it took a lot of tweaking to get it to where I liked it. My main complaint against it was the TV speakers. It had the worst TV-alone sound of any flat screen I have owned. It was almost unlistenable wthout using my home theatre speaker set up. But I was quite happy and impressed with the picture of the TV before it failed.

After almost 4 days of viewing the ST60 I am now fully convinced it is sharper and clearer (smoother) than the ST50, especially with a 1080i cable box signal. I don't know if I would call the ST50 soft but the new model is noticeably sharper, and that is with going from a 50 inch screen for the ST50 to a 55 inch screen for the ST60. And as I have said before here, the default settings for most of picture modes are the most natural and watchable of any default settings I have seen. In addition, the new model comes with two sets of 3D glasses, something the ST50's lacked. I would also say that the blacks are possibly a little better than the ST50. And the TV speaker sound is way better than the ST50 such that I have watched a few hockey and basketball games without using the home theater set up. And I can detect no buzzing or brightness pops or fluctuations when watching hockey or other scenes with a lot of bright white in them.

As far as I can tell the only negative change is the fact that the stand no longer swivels. I cannot comment on screen reflections because I have it in a dark basement setting. I have noticed no IR to this point.

I read the speakers remained the same from last to this year? Possible your st50 was defective, in terms of sound, if it was that bad (unlistenable), I know bad, but worse than every other?
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post #96 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

If it turns out that the new ST60 series is sharper and crisper than the 2012 models i'm going to be sad Randy because there's not a single 2013 Panasonic model that meets my requirements.

What do the 2012 models have that the 2013s do not? (Swiveling stand?)

Also, for those that have the ST60, how does the screen uniformity look? I gave up on the ST50 after two tries because they both had loud buzzing (audible at 12 ft away) and vertical streaks on the right side (aka dirty screen effect). It sounds like there's hope for getting a buzz-free ST60, but the screen uniformity is actually a bigger concern for me.
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post #97 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by betheri View Post

I just wanted to throw my two cents worth on a couple of points raised above. First, I switched from the ST50 to the ST60 because the ST50 begans turning itself off every 10 minutes after I had it for about 4 weeks. I had no complaints with the picture, although it took a lot of tweaking to get it to where I liked it. My main complaint against it was the TV speakers. It had the worst TV-alone sound of any flat screen I have owned. It was almost unlistenable wthout using my home theatre speaker set up. But I was quite happy and impressed with the picture of the TV before it failed.

After almost 4 days of viewing the ST60 I am now fully convinced it is sharper and clearer (smoother) than the ST50, especially with a 1080i cable box signal. I don't know if I would call the ST50 soft but the new model is noticeably sharper, and that is with going from a 50 inch screen for the ST50 to a 55 inch screen for the ST60. And as I have said before here, the default settings for most of picture modes are the most natural and watchable of any default settings I have seen. In addition, the new model comes with two sets of 3D glasses, something the ST50's lacked. I would also say that the blacks are possibly a little better than the ST50. And the TV speaker sound is way better than the ST50 such that I have watched a few hockey and basketball games without using the home theater set up. And I can detect no buzzing or brightness pops or fluctuations when watching hockey or other scenes with a lot of bright white in them.

As far as I can tell the only negative change is the fact that the stand no longer swivels. I cannot comment on screen reflections because I have it in a dark basement setting. I have noticed no IR to this point.

Your set had to be defective. I was nearly blown away by the richness of the sound. And we have had 8 flat screens it was ridiculously better than all if them.
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post #98 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by bucknuts07 View Post

Is that pricing in store only ? Online they are showing the 50" as 1149, and 60 at 1499. Just curious, as I'm looking at the st60 to replace my gt25 panny, which will move to the bedroom.

Nevermind, it says 1149, with no mention that its cheaper, until you proceed to check out. Anyone know if the 55 inch is at sears, didnt see it on the web, but thinking since I'm eleven foot from the screen, atleast need to go with 55 inch this time around. Looks like Best Buy just updated their page to match sears. But no 55", maybe its not out yet ?

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post #99 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Todd View Post

What do the 2012 models have that the 2013s do not? (Swiveling stand?)

Also, for those that have the ST60, how does the screen uniformity look? I gave up on the ST50 after two tries because they both had loud buzzing (audible at 12 ft away) and vertical streaks on the right side (aka dirty screen effect). It sounds like there's hope for getting a buzz-free ST60, but the screen uniformity is actually a bigger concern for me.

My screen on both the st50 and 60 were perfect as far as uniformity. As I said buzzing on my 60 is as close to silent as it can be without being silent. Also I really don't remember my st50 swiveling... Guess I never tried.
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post #100 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by bucknuts07 View Post

Nevermind, it says 1149, with no mention that its cheaper, until you proceed to check out. Anyone know if the 55 inch is at sears, didnt see it on the web, but thinking since I'm eleven foot from the screen, atleast need to go with 55 inch this time around. Looks like Best Buy just updated their page to match sears. But no 55", maybe its not out yet ?

I want to know who has the 55" too that's what it really want, when they are available I'm going to swap... But the 60" at $1499 is pretty tempting too
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post #101 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post

If there is general consensus the pic is soft and I was annoyed by it why would I keep it. I've never wanted to love something and just couldn't like my st50. Regardless of cnet and all the experts it didn't matter once I sat on my couch and had to look at a near blurry picture. I heard all kinds of tags "film like" " true life display" whatever technical name ppl tried to give this "defect" it drove me crazy so on my 30th day it went back. The new set is on point so in my eyes I win. I got what I wanted if your happy with yours that's great I just felt underwhelmed and buyers remorse was around the corner

I don't have an ST50 but appreciate your observations, in the end its all about what everyone likes personally. I haven't seen that effect on my VT50 but to each his own. Have you tried out the 3d? Supposedly that is improved across the whole line

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post #102 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I don't have an ST50 but appreciate your observations, in the end its all about what everyone likes personally. I haven't seen that effect on my VT50 but to each his own. Have you tried out the 3d? Supposedly that is improved across the whole line

Nah not really just comcast free crappy 3d in the on demand menu. Ill get a real 3d bluray tonight
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post #103 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 10:25 AM
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Howdy,

I'm enjoying following this thread.

I am looking to replace my 2008 37 inch TC-LZ800 Panasonic LCD.

I'd like to know if the TC-P50ST60 50 Inch Plasma would be too big for a 400 square foot room?
If so, which size is recommended? I plan to sit 6-12 feet from the TV.

I'd definitely like to obtain a 3D Smart TV bigger than 37 inches if it is feasible.

Thank You!

Milan
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post #104 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 10:27 AM
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Does the ST60 share the same louvre filter as the ST50? Wondering if it's any less aggressive (for those of us who are bothered by it).


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post #105 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 10:37 AM
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^& that would probably account for the difference reported, not as "soft" etc.
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post #106 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 10:44 AM
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I have a 50ST60 review in the works, and since it may be a couple days before I get it finished I thought I'd pass along some tidbits. Black level measures .00232 fL, modified ANSI CR is 11,200:1. Excellent grayscale and gamma measurements thanks to the addition of a 10 point adjustment previously only found on the VT series.
Before cal Home THeater mode and Cinema mode are decent choices, with grayscale being more accurate in Cinema but fleshtones too pale and undersaturated in Cinema.
Custom calibrates well, as should Cinema. Could use Custom as a day mode and Cinema as night...

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post #107 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

I have a 50ST60 review in the works, and since it may be a couple days before I get it finished I thought I'd pass along some tidbits. Black level is around .003, modified ANSI CR 9181:1. Excellent grayscale and gamma measurements thanks to the addition of a 10 point adjustment previously only found on the VT series.
Before cal Home THeater mode and Cinema mode are decent choices, with grayscale being more accurate in Cinema but fleshtones too pale and undersaturated in Cinema.
Custom calibrates well, as should Cinema. Could use Custom as a day mode and Cinema as night...

Have you see any IR from stations like the History network or with ESPN and the scrolling scores at the bottom of the screen?
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post #108 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

I have a 50ST60 review in the works, and since it may be a couple days before I get it finished I thought I'd pass along some tidbits. Black level is around .003, modified ANSI CR 9181:1. Excellent grayscale and gamma measurements thanks to the addition of a 10 point adjustment previously only found on the VT series.
Before cal Home THeater mode and Cinema mode are decent choices, with grayscale being more accurate in Cinema but fleshtones too pale and undersaturated in Cinema.
Custom calibrates well, as should Cinema. Could use Custom as a day mode and Cinema as night...

It'll be interesting to see the comparison between this and the F8500. I'm curious what the measurement will be with a Klein K-10 meter, too.

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post #109 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by PathofNeo View Post

Does the ST60 share the same louvre filter as the ST50? Wondering if it's any less aggressive (for those of us who are bothered by it).

Seems to me and I'm no expert that this years filter is less aggressive. I notice while standing directly in front of the set its less filtered than the st50 which was nearly unviewable in that position. The screen is also not as grey when turned off and it's def brighter.
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post #110 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 10:57 AM
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No IR yet, but I looked only at Blu Ray before calibration. No problems with IR from my test patterns, which will show it up if there are any problems.
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post #111 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

I have a 50ST60 review in the works, and since it may be a couple days before I get it finished I thought I'd pass along some tidbits. Black level is around .003, modified ANSI CR 9181:1. Excellent grayscale and gamma measurements thanks to the addition of a 10 point adjustment previously only found on the VT series.
Before cal Home THeater mode and Cinema mode are decent choices, with grayscale being more accurate in Cinema but fleshtones too pale and undersaturated in Cinema.
Custom calibrates well, as should Cinema. Could use Custom as a day mode and Cinema as night...

Thanks, Chad! Is the brightness comparable to the Samsung F8500?
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post #112 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 11:01 AM
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Even more excited now to finally read a full review of this set! I have one on pre order in 60 inch, but with all the new stuff I've been torn between this and saving up to get another model (or trying to snag a closeout 55VT50 if the performance lagged seriously)

I wonder if this set can pull another trick like last year's and best the previous year's flagship (the VT50). Dare I hope?

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post #113 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 11:08 AM
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The other thing that'll be interesting is if the halved mll in the 60" + sizes holds true this year. Could be potentially looking at .0015 mll for a 60" ST60. Crazy

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post #114 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

I have a 50ST60 review in the works, and since it may be a couple days before I get it finished I thought I'd pass along some tidbits. Black level is around .003, modified ANSI CR 9181:1. Excellent grayscale and gamma measurements thanks to the addition of a 10 point adjustment previously only found on the VT series.
Before cal Home THeater mode and Cinema mode are decent choices, with grayscale being more accurate in Cinema but fleshtones too pale and undersaturated in Cinema.
Custom calibrates well, as should Cinema. Could use Custom as a day mode and Cinema as night...

WOW!
This ST60 may just be this year's Best Bang for the Buck HDTV!
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post #115 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 11:21 AM
 
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Oh that was me who returned the set. , if you look closely at the panel when watching hockey there was some fluctuating brightness pops and some slight buzzing coming from the vent that sounded like bees. Also when inset the tv to 96hz for blu ray the actors started to stutter
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post #116 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by rockphantom View Post

Howdy,

I'm enjoying following this thread.

I am looking to replace my 2008 37 inch TC-LZ800 Panasonic LCD.

I'd like to know if the TC-P50ST60 50 Inch Plasma would be too big for a 400 square foot room?
If so, which size is recommended? I plan to sit 6-12 feet from the TV.

I'd definitely like to obtain a 3D Smart TV bigger than 37 inches if it is feasible.

Thank You!

Milan

Milan,

You should have no problem with a 50 inch ST60 in that room. I have a viewing distance of abot 8 to 9 feet and find both the 50 and 55 inch screens to be quite watchable from that distance because of the high quality of the image.
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post #117 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 11:23 AM
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Thanks, Chad! Is the brightness comparable to the Samsung F8500?

the f8500 will be the king in that dept.

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post #118 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

I have a 50ST60 review in the works, and since it may be a couple days before I get it finished I thought I'd pass along some tidbits. Black level is around .003, modified ANSI CR 9181:1. Excellent grayscale and gamma measurements thanks to the addition of a 10 point adjustment previously only found on the VT series.
Before cal Home THeater mode and Cinema mode are decent choices, with grayscale being more accurate in Cinema but fleshtones too pale and undersaturated in Cinema.
Custom calibrates well, as should Cinema. Could use Custom as a day mode and Cinema as night...

WOW them blacks are impressive. The ST50 is 0.015cd/m2 and the VT50 is 0.009 cd/m2 on an ANSI checkerboard pattern.

So does this mean that the ST60 has 3x better blacks than the VT50?

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post #119 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by nolava View Post

Thanks, Chad! Is the brightness comparable to the Samsung F8500?
Not quite.. Mid panel brightness, anyway. Close though.

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post #120 of 12907 Old 03-26-2013, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post

It'll be interesting to see the comparison between this and the F8500. I'm curious what the measurement will be with a Klein K-10 meter, too.

The ANSI CR is better than the F8500. Black level is slightly better than f8500 with black optimizer off. That is pretty impressive.
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