Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 419 - AVS Forum
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post #12541 of 13100 Old 06-02-2014, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I don't doubt your experience but my 55'" does not have pink blobs or uniformity issues, approx 1200 hours of usage, professionally calibrated. I am very picky and would definitely notice something like that. Perhaps it is something specific to floor models, they are routinely abused much more so than a typical set in the home environment.

It could very well depend on panel size. All of the ones I looked at were 50 inches.
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post #12542 of 13100 Old 06-02-2014, 04:20 PM
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The smaller sizes also seem more prone to a green tint issue so they may be something to that theory. The 65" panels tend to have better blacks as well.

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post #12543 of 13100 Old 06-02-2014, 04:31 PM
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Why would the 65" have better blacks?

Im thinking of tracking down a P50ST60 used.

Samsung 51F8500 Plasma / Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
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post #12544 of 13100 Old 06-02-2014, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

Why would the 65" have better blacks?

Im thinking of tracking down a P50ST60 used.


it is not a significant difference but shows up on a meter. The Samsung's prior to 2013 were showed a much larger discrepancy. I would highly recommend the ST60 very good set.

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post #12545 of 13100 Old 06-02-2014, 04:42 PM
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Im still unclear as to the why?

Does it have to do with the size of the subpixel cells?

Samsung 51F8500 Plasma / Vizio VP322 Plasma / Vizio GV42LF LCD / Denon 2200 Silicon Image DVD / Panasonic S97 Faroudja Genesis DVD / Oppo 970HD Mediatek DVD / Oppo 983H Anchor Bay DVD / Panasonic LX-600 Laserdisc / Aiwa MX100 Multi-region VCR / JVC S7600 S-VHS / PS2 / Roku 2 XS & HD-XR / Realistic STA-90 Reciever / Realistic Minimus 7 / Antennacraft G1483 Hoverman / Belden 7915A RG6 / Channel Master 7777 Titan 2 UHF/VHF / Panasonic AX-200u / Optoma Graywolf 92" / Draper Luma 92"
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post #12546 of 13100 Old 06-02-2014, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

Im still unclear as to the why?

Does it have to do with the size of the subpixel cells?

I don't know the reason sorry, its nothing that should deter you from getting a 50" imo

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post #12547 of 13100 Old 06-02-2014, 04:59 PM
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It's all gravy below .03

Im a curious fellow though....who likes to know the why of things.

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post #12548 of 13100 Old 06-02-2014, 05:03 PM
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Maybe someone else can chime in for you. You mean .003 right ? If not your expectations are pretty low smile.gif

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post #12549 of 13100 Old 06-02-2014, 07:16 PM
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Bigger plasma cells means more brightness, that extra head room means you can target a lower black level smile.gif

In the old days lower resolution models had better contrast but that is not the case anymore because manufacturers are pocketing those savings and low res is designated for budget models.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post

No one with any technical knowledge seems to want to go on the record about what causes this but my purely amateur theory is that not all pixels are created equally during the manufacturing process and some are more energy efficient than others. So they are fine when given a full charge on a low peak brightness image but when starved for power can't reach peak white. It sounds like they changed the nature of the 'plasma' used in the panels to allow for 3D when that became popular and I think this is associated with when this problem started to crop up more. But as I mentioned I don't know anything about anything.

It sound like the ST60 is starving for power but the selection of fast decaying phosphors to accommodate 3D would not have such a great impact on overall efficiency and would be "accounted for" in the design just like always. Maybe those tint only affects one size as somebody mentioned, as there are almost one hundred different unique designs every model year.
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post #12550 of 13100 Old 06-03-2014, 04:54 PM
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Well it makes sense that the larger cells can accomodate more phosophors and gas. I thought it would be something like that.

Does that also mean that the larger the cell the longer lasting the set with regards to fading image?

So my question Chad Thunder is this....regarding these 2 issues I brought up should I go for the Samsung 51F4500 720p or the 51F5300 1080p?


Furthermore, how about the 1080p 42" sets from Panasonic like the S60 last year. Dimmer and less contrast than the larger models?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and insight.

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post #12551 of 13100 Old 06-04-2014, 06:09 PM
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Hello:

I just picked up a display demo of a 55ST60 the other day from a local Sears store for just under a grand (no remote or 3D glasses). Since I don't care about 3D and have a Harmony remote I'm happy to save some money.

This is my first plasma. I had a CRT Pioneer Pro530 that I tried replacing with a new Toshiba 55L7400... but that's another story. So I found this Panny.

I wanted to test the unit first to make sure there is no buzzing, to ensure all HDMI's work and the component video.

My first choice was to start with component video and an old DVD player. As soon as I fired it up I thought... OMG I have a bad TV. I saw a dancing snow on the set. Of course I was at the screen turning on the TV since I didn't have the remote. I freaked for a while thinking here i go again need to return the unit.

Then I grabbed my Roku and hooked it up via HDMI... still noticing the noise. I moved back and looked from 4-5 feet away and thought, that looks great.

Thank goodness for the internet because after some diligent, frantic searching I realized that what I must be seeing is normal to Plasma's. Up close I see the dithering but far away the pic looks fantastic. An episode of The Voice was especially compelling with the deep blacks and bright lights.

The set is on the floor in my basement for now because I don't have time to tear apart my current setup. it also makes it easier to continue checking the other HDMI's (only made it through HDMI1 so far).

I can't wait to get this set up in my living room and run my Spears and Munsil disk through to get this looking great.

Cheers to hopefully many years of great blacks and excellent picture with my ST60!
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post #12552 of 13100 Old 06-05-2014, 11:36 AM
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I have new 55ST60. I want to use HTPC with it and to play media files. However, when I first connected HTPC via HDMI, I noticed some tearing. I googled about it and found out that most ST60s have input lag. I disabled VIERA Link and played with picture settings, however some minor input lag is still visible. Do you have some ideas that may help me? It's strange that I've read so many reviews and I didn't remember reading about the input lag. eek.gif
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post #12553 of 13100 Old 06-05-2014, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by HylianBowcaster View Post

So I've recently started to game some more and I've noticed that I've got a little bit of image retention going on. It's mostly from the HUD from Xbox One's Forza 5. Now I've got the contrast at 79 and the panel brightness on low, and I'm wondering if you guys think I should lower the contrast more to prevent this, or is it just something that will likely fade over time. I don't know if it has anything to due with the hours on the TV, but right now I just past 700 hours of screen time.

If there are any other owners who use this display regularly for gaming, what settings do you use? and have you had any trouble with HUD IR?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by garnettrules21 View Post


I usually drop mine down to around 60 when I game with huds. If I know I've been gaming for a while or watching a bunch of channels with logos I usually set the screen wipe for 15-60 mins or so and head to bed. If it's slight it should clear up pretty quick unless you keep putting hours upon hours of forza 5. Maybe disable the hud on some of the races. I do this sometimes with GT6.

I use my 50ST60 for nothing but gaming on my Xbox One, and I haven't had a single sign of IR yet. I don't know whether you guys have touchy sets, or if I received a perfect one (from Best Buy Open Box, go figure). I've played hours on end of Forza 5 and Battlefield 4 (both games have lots of static images), and I continually check my screen with slides, though I find myself doing it less now as I haven't seen anything since the day I brought it home. This may be because I always have my pixel orbiter on, though it isn't because of my contrast, which is set at 80. Good luck with your sets!

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post #12554 of 13100 Old 06-05-2014, 02:59 PM
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Just a quick question really. I recently purchased a PS4 and have set RGB to full. The ST60 also has a HDMI RGB Range setting under options. Should I set this to 'Full' aswell?
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post #12555 of 13100 Old 06-05-2014, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack25 View Post

Just a quick question really. I recently purchased a PS4 and have set RGB to full. The ST60 also has a HDMI RGB Range setting under options. Should I set this to 'Full' aswell?

You can use either but both units have to be set the same.
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post #12556 of 13100 Old 06-05-2014, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V_Pl_a View Post

I have new 55ST60. I want to use HTPC with it and to play media files. However, when I first connected HTPC via HDMI, I noticed some tearing. I googled about it and found out that most ST60s have input lag. I disabled VIERA Link and played with picture settings, however some minor input lag is still visible. Do you have some ideas that may help me? It's strange that I've read so many reviews and I didn't remember reading about the input lag. eek.gif

I searched this thread and got 497 hits, wow. Anyway maybe try game mode and turn off all processing and not sure if pixel direct would help. Maybe make sure you are outputting 60hz(try fraps). If you are going through an AVR make sure you just passing through the signal or hook the PC direct to the tv. You may have to read through this whole thread to find some adjustments. Maybe an owner with experience will chime in.
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post #12557 of 13100 Old 06-05-2014, 06:17 PM
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I purchased a P50ST60 in December 13 and the picture quality was getting better and better. Then at about 600 hours it died and wouldn't come back on . To make a long story short Panny hooked me up with a local repair shop who replaced the main board. To me now the picture is not as good as when it went out. Since the main board was replaced does the unit have to go through another burn in? 

 

thanks

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post #12558 of 13100 Old 06-05-2014, 07:20 PM
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The "screen" with the pixels that produce the picture (and burn n if it happens is already aged. The electronics that paint the picture wouldn't affect the screen's aging process. I don't know if a defective board can produce/send inferior signals to the screen. I would assume, tho, it either works or doesn't.
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post #12559 of 13100 Old 06-05-2014, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whipit View Post

I searched this thread and got 497 hits, wow. Anyway maybe try game mode and turn off all processing and not sure if pixel direct would help. Maybe make sure you are outputting 60hz(try fraps). If you are going through an AVR make sure you just passing through the signal or hook the PC direct to the tv. You may have to read through this whole thread to find some adjustments. Maybe an owner with experience will chime in.
I have already turned on Game Mode. I had also enabled Pixel direct, but there was no noticeable result.
My PC is hooked up directly to TV via HDMI. I changed input name to Blu-Ray. Maybe I should change HDMI port?
I think that maybe Smart functionality causes some lag. Is there any way to disable it?
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post #12560 of 13100 Old 06-06-2014, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by whipit View Post

You can use either but both units have to be set the same.
Will do. Thanks for the reply.
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post #12561 of 13100 Old 06-06-2014, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Jack25 View Post

Just a quick question really. I recently purchased a PS4 and have set RGB to full. The ST60 also has a HDMI RGB Range setting under options. Should I set this to 'Full' aswell?

Like whipit posted - both the TV and the PS4 just need to be the set the same. Full and Full or Limited and Limited. Auto also works and if you set both the PS4 and the TV to auto they'll both flip to Full.

I actually have a problem with my ST60 and the RGB Range setting and the WiiU. The WiiU has no RGB option. It's permanently set to limited. However, the ST60 Auto setting *wrongly* detects the WiiU as Full and that is bad. You have to manually set the ST60 to Limited if you're using a WiiU or the colors will be messed up. Now, normally this wouldn't be a huge issue. I also have a PS3 and PS4 and could just set them both to Limited and the TV to Limited to match the WiiU and never have to change anything.

But... I also have my PC hooked up to the ST60 via HDMI from a Nvidia GTX560. If I could set this to Limited and everything else to limited it would be fine, but I can't. No matter what I try my GTX560's HDMI out to my TV seems to be forced to Full.

So I have a couple of options. 1) Set the PS3 and PS4 to Full to match the PC and keep the ST60 on Full by default, but switch the ST60 to Limited manually anytime I play the WiiU. 2) Set the PS3 and PS4 to Limited to match the WiiU and keep the ST60 on Limited by default, but switch the ST60 to Full manually anytime I use my PC. Since the WiiU gets far less use than my PS3, PS4, and PC (I watch tons of stuff from my PC on my ST60) the first option seems to be the best.

I would prefer to just have everything on one single setting, but unfortunately my PC and the WIiU want to be a pain in the ass. I really wish the WiiU had an RGB toggle setting. Maybe they can patch it in some day.

Also, it's really strange that the ST60's Auto setting doesn't work properly with the WiiU. It works totally fine with the PS3, PS4, and my PC.
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post #12562 of 13100 Old 06-06-2014, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HylianBowcaster View Post

So I've recently started to game some more and I've noticed that I've got a little bit of image retention going on. It's mostly from the HUD from Xbox One's Forza 5. Now I've got the contrast at 79 and the panel brightness on low, and I'm wondering if you guys think I should lower the contrast more to prevent this, or is it just something that will likely fade over time. I don't know if it has anything to due with the hours on the TV, but right now I just past 700 hours of screen time.

If there are any other owners who use this display regularly for gaming, what settings do you use? and have you had any trouble with HUD IR?

My contrast is also 79 and I am a very avid gamer. I had some troubles with IR in my early days of owning the set. It can be quite persistent, especially with bright white HUDs. I had the health bar from Dead Island: Riptide stay up and be noticeable on it for nearly two weeks when I stupidly played for 10+ hours straight when I only had a couple hundred hours on the set. It did eventually go away though.

However, the IR time *drastically* reduced once I hit over 2000 hours on the set and keeps being less and less of an issue as time goes by. Just keep being careful with it and eventually it won't be an issue at all. Once you hit a certain point stuff should fade pretty easily no matter how long you play a game for. White HUD pieces will stay the longest. Colored HUD pieces, especially non-bright colors, basically won't stay at all.
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post #12563 of 13100 Old 06-06-2014, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V_Pl_a View Post

I have already turned on Game Mode. I had also enabled Pixel direct, but there was no noticeable result.
My PC is hooked up directly to TV via HDMI. I changed input name to Blu-Ray. Maybe I should change HDMI port?
I think that maybe Smart functionality causes some lag. Is there any way to disable it?

1080p Pixel Direct adds quite a bit of Input Lag. Make sure you don't use it.

And god I wish we could turn off all the Smart TV junk to test if it reduced lag. Sadly, right now, we can't.
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post #12564 of 13100 Old 06-06-2014, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobymadfan View Post

I purchased a P50ST60 in December 13 and the picture quality was getting better and better. Then at about 600 hours it died and wouldn't come back on . To make a long story short Panny hooked me up with a local repair shop who replaced the main board. To me now the picture is not as good as when it went out. Since the main board was replaced does the unit have to go through another burn in? 

thanks

The tv's calibration settings are stored on the A board. I believe the TV's go through a basic cal/setup at the factory to get them close. So getting a cal should help, doesn't help the pocketbook though.
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post #12565 of 13100 Old 06-06-2014, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfoh View Post

Like whipit posted - both the TV and the PS4 just need to be the set the same. Full and Full or Limited and Limited. Auto also works and if you set both the PS4 and the TV to auto they'll both flip to Full.

I actually have a problem with my ST60 and the RGB Range setting and the WiiU. The WiiU has no RGB option. It's permanently set to limited. However, the ST60 Auto setting *wrongly* detects the WiiU as Full and that is bad. You have to manually set the ST60 to Limited if you're using a WiiU or the colors will be messed up. Now, normally this wouldn't be a huge issue. I also have a PS3 and PS4 and could just set them both to Limited and the TV to Limited to match the WiiU and never have to change anything.

But... I also have my PC hooked up to the ST60 via HDMI from a Nvidia GTX560. If I could set this to Limited and everything else to limited it would be fine, but I can't. No matter what I try my GTX560's HDMI out to my TV seems to be forced to Full.

So I have a couple of options. 1) Set the PS3 and PS4 to Full to match the PC and keep the ST60 on Full by default, but switch the ST60 to Limited manually anytime I play the WiiU. 2) Set the PS3 and PS4 to Limited to match the WiiU and keep the ST60 on Limited by default, but switch the ST60 to Full manually anytime I use my PC. Since the WiiU gets far less use than my PS3, PS4, and PC (I watch tons of stuff from my PC on my ST60) the first option seems to be the best.

I would prefer to just have everything on one single setting, but unfortunately my PC and the WIiU want to be a pain in the ass. I really wish the WiiU had an RGB toggle setting. Maybe they can patch it in some day.

Also, it's really strange that the ST60's Auto setting doesn't work properly with the WiiU. It works totally fine with the PS3, PS4, and my PC.

So just to confirm, if I set my PS4 RGB to auto and my TV to auto, it will automatically set to full? I'm 90% sure I set them both to auto last night and the difference between both settings on Full and both on auto are actually pretty different.

When I set my TV to Full rather than auto, the PQ looked a little washed out compared to auto.
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post #12566 of 13100 Old 06-06-2014, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfoh View Post

Like whipit posted - both the TV and the PS4 just need to be the set the same. Full and Full or Limited and Limited. Auto also works and if you set both the PS4 and the TV to auto they'll both flip to Full.

I actually have a problem with my ST60 and the RGB Range setting and the WiiU. The WiiU has no RGB option. It's permanently set to limited. However, the ST60 Auto setting *wrongly* detects the WiiU as Full and that is bad. You have to manually set the ST60 to Limited if you're using a WiiU or the colors will be messed up. Now, normally this wouldn't be a huge issue. I also have a PS3 and PS4 and could just set them both to Limited and the TV to Limited to match the WiiU and never have to change anything.

But... I also have my PC hooked up to the ST60 via HDMI from a Nvidia GTX560. If I could set this to Limited and everything else to limited it would be fine, but I can't. No matter what I try my GTX560's HDMI out to my TV seems to be forced to Full.

So I have a couple of options. 1) Set the PS3 and PS4 to Full to match the PC and keep the ST60 on Full by default, but switch the ST60 to Limited manually anytime I play the WiiU. 2) Set the PS3 and PS4 to Limited to match the WiiU and keep the ST60 on Limited by default, but switch the ST60 to Full manually anytime I use my PC. Since the WiiU gets far less use than my PS3, PS4, and PC (I watch tons of stuff from my PC on my ST60) the first option seems to be the best.

I would prefer to just have everything on one single setting, but unfortunately my PC and the WIiU want to be a pain in the ass. I really wish the WiiU had an RGB toggle setting. Maybe they can patch it in some day.

Also, it's really strange that the ST60's Auto setting doesn't work properly with the WiiU. It works totally fine with the PS3, PS4, and my PC.

Good to know that the pixel direct mode adds lag, thanks. It looks like you have all your equipment going through an AVR. I may suggest hooking the Wii right to the tv and using optical out for it to have it's own settings, but I'm sure you already considered that.
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post #12567 of 13100 Old 06-06-2014, 05:41 AM
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So just to confirm, if I set my PS4 RGB to auto and my TV to auto, it will automatically set to full? I'm 90% sure I set them both to auto last night and the difference between both settings on Full and both on auto are actually pretty different.

When I set my TV to Full rather than auto, the PQ looked a little washed out compared to auto.

That's how it works for my setup for whatever reason. I can't say for sure that other people's will work exactly the same. It's probably best to not use the Auto setting though and just make sure they match on your own.
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post #12568 of 13100 Old 06-06-2014, 05:43 AM
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Good to know that the pixel direct mode adds lag, thanks. It looks like you have all your equipment going through an AVR. I may suggest hooking the Wii right to the tv and using optical out for it to have it's own settings, but I'm sure you already considered that.

It's a Wii U, not a Wii, and it's hooked up via HDMI and I don't really want to mess with the extra cables to do that. Easier to just run everything via HDMI through my receiver and then receiver to TV.

And yeah, pixel direct *definitely* adds lag. Like around an extra 30-33ms, iirc.
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post #12569 of 13100 Old 06-06-2014, 05:43 AM
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That's how it works for my setup for whatever reason. I can't say for sure that other people's will work exactly the same. It's probably best to not use the Auto setting though and just make sure they match on your own.
Will double check when I get in later. Blacks were definitely crushed with just Full on my TV but changing the TV to Full actually changed that. Just a pity the colours look a little timid.
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I found the cause of my problem (screen tearing). Today I paid attention that my TV is European model and its max refresh rate therefore is 50 Hz, while my HTPC was sending 60 Hz signal to my TV. I changed the refresh rate of my HTPC to 50. Now there is no noticeable tearing and input lag. So much trouble for a new TV. rolleyes.gif
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