Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 42 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1231 of 13232 Old 04-08-2013, 11:34 PM
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I don't mind the discussion too much, just not so much reading people debating over who can detect what, and how much difference it makes and such.

I get it, the set has lag. I'm honestly glad I know that before I buy.

We have more lag tests than we have actual reviews of this set right now. I hope D-Nice's review comes this week!

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post #1232 of 13232 Old 04-08-2013, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

I'm surprised people are upset about the input lag discussion in this thead? What else would you like us to discuss? Don't we already have about 40 pages of people saying the set looks very good?

The ever-present problem with the endless thread model is that questions and comments unrelated to the hot topic of the moment quickly get buried under an avalanche of irrelevant messages.
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post #1233 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 12:20 AM
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All right, for those who want to remain in the input lag discussion, I made a new topic here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467481/official-st60-input-lag-thread
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post #1234 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

All right, for those who want to remain in the input lag discussion, I made a new topic here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467481/official-st60-input-lag-thread
You will probably get more done in a thread dedicated to that one topic. This thread is going to be crowded with new owners asking questions about IR, burn-in, black levers, and the best possible settings for PQ. wink.gif.
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post #1235 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatal One View Post

Honestly, I think there is some other display processing going on that I have not disabled yet. One item that caught my eye that would likely add to the input lag is a setting called pixel orbiter. It's settings are either ON or AUTO. Depending on how many of these background processes you can actually disable, you can slowly chip away at the input lag.

This is puzzling. So if you have 1:1 pixel mapping (no overscan) what happens if the pixel orbiter is set to AUTO? Does the image shift,causing a black edge(s) to appear at times?
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post #1236 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

I'm surprised people are upset about the input lag discussion in this thead? What else would you like us to discuss? Don't we already have about 40 pages of people saying the set looks very good?
No. We have about 30 pages about input lag and 10 about everything else.

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post #1237 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 06:11 AM
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For a guy that does no gaming and is buying just for Movies and sports... How is this set? I keep hearing soft picture? Being at Best Buy they run that stupid slide! it be nice to see a ST60 with a movie on where you can see and play with the remote! Thanks for any feed back
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post #1238 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by 77Rivers View Post

For a guy that does no gaming and is buying just for Movies and sports... How is this set? I keep hearing soft picture? Being at Best Buy they run that stupid slide! it be nice to see a ST60 with a movie on where you can see and play with the remote! Thanks for any feed back

Last week, owners were reporting the ST60 was sharper than the ST50 models. It all depends on your definition/requirements.
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post #1239 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Phatal One View Post

I don't think it is anywhere near a "rising blacks" level of seriousness. One night of tinkering has shown me that there are a number of settings to help reduce the issue. Hopefully there are ways to further improve performance for those who care, as the ST60 is pretty strong in other areas. Eventually I will get around to testing 3D and some other things but input lag was a bit easier to design a decent and quick test for after a long day at work than to calibrate various picture modes. Plus, until my ZT60 gets here I will not have another 3D capable display to compare it to. tongue.gif

I'm pretty optimistic about these settings that came to light yesterday. Hopefully some of the auto/on exclusive settings can be disabled in the service menu.
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post #1240 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 77Rivers View Post

For a guy that does no gaming and is buying just for Movies and sports... How is this set? I keep hearing soft picture? Being at Best Buy they run that stupid slide! it be nice to see a ST60 with a movie on where you can see and play with the remote! Thanks for any feed back

I took my st50 back because of SOFT pq I personally couldn't handle it. Got 2 weeks under my belt with the st60 and it is sharper crisper brighter, higher contrast and colors have lots more pop. I tried d-nice settings on my st50 and cnet and the wow disk, nothing I did could make the picture look like the st60. It really is way better. Sharpness should not be an issue.
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post #1241 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 08:14 AM
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That is promising indeed. Can't wait to receive mine and Disney wow disc. My last UT50 was calibrated by geek squad but I was not impressed by my technician. He took maybe 30 minutes total and barely eye balled with real content. It was free though.
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post #1242 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omni009 View Post

I'd love to hear what you thought of them. I went to my Video Only in CA today, but they had no VT60's. They did quote me a very nice price for a 60VT60 when it comes in though, much lower than I was expecting it to be right off the bat.
I unfortunately wasn't able to make it there last night to check them out. Hopefully I'll be able to make it there sometime this week, at the latest this weekend. They also quoted me a great price. Lower than I expected. I was pretty shocked to see them with a lower price than MSRP.
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post #1243 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by vic_0002 View Post

Hasn't input lag already been established as "worse than last years models"?

It has, and has then been beaten to death over several pages in this thread. The vast majority of Plasma owners don't game and could care less about lag. It's an involved topic which is probably where there is an existing dedicated Official Input Lag Thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1166196/the-official-plasma-input-lag-thread/570


Quote:
Hope this doesn't turn into the new "rising blacks" issue for 2013.

I hope so too but not because most of us have zero interest in gaming, it's because the Rising Blacks issue affected every single 2009 model owner and complaints about it infected and ruined dozens of various Panasonic threads for the next two years. If input lag turns out to be the only negative issue among the 2013 model lineup i'll be very happy since it has zero impact on the majority of prospective owners.

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Sony 55W800B, Panasonic TC-P55ST60, TC-P50GT50, TC-P46G10, TH-42PZ700U, TiVo Series3 & Premiere, TWC Cisco 8742HDC DVR, Onkyo TX-SR333 AVR, URC R40 Remote.
Pic of My A/V setup - http://cdn.avsforum.com/f/f1/900x900..._Img_4867.jpeg
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post #1244 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 09:20 AM
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Are the new ST's able to be mounted using a shadow bracket that places it very close to the wall? When I bought my ST50 I have to use a tilting mount--even though I didn't want to tilt it--because the power cord stuck out.

Just wondering, and hoping, the new design might tuck in the cord better. Anyone wall mount one of these yet?

Looking forward to picking up my 60-ST60 when they're out...

Dan
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post #1245 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by dftkell View Post

Are the new ST's able to be mounted using a shadow bracket that places it very close to the wall? When I bought my ST50 I have to use a tilting mount--even though I didn't want to tilt it--because the power cord stuck out.

Just wondering, and hoping, the new design might tuck in the cord better. Anyone wall mount one of these yet?

Looking forward to picking up my 60-ST60 when they're out...

Dan
The power cord on the ST50 only sticks out 3/8". With vents and speakers on the back it is probably not recommended to mount it any closer anyway. The ST60 is probably no different in this regard.

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post #1246 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dftkell View Post

Are the new ST's able to be mounted using a shadow bracket that places it very close to the wall? When I bought my ST50 I have to use a tilting mount--even though I didn't want to tilt it--because the power cord stuck out.

Just wondering, and hoping, the new design might tuck in the cord better. Anyone wall mount one of these yet?

Looking forward to picking up my 60-ST60 when they're out...

Dan

Cord is the same exactly as last year
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post #1247 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 10:10 AM
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I have a 55st60 en-route from Abt. What would be the slimiest flat mount that would work? Would 1/2" be cutting it close, or should i go for a 1"?
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post #1248 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 10:14 AM
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Anyone know what screws are needed for mounting this tv. I currently have a GT25 wall mounted, that will move to my gaming room. If anyone has mentioned, I apoligize. Thanks.

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post #1249 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by bucknuts07 View Post

Anyone know what screws are needed for mounting this tv. I currently have a GT25 wall mounted, that will move to my gaming room. If anyone has mentioned, I apoligize. Thanks.

According to the manual:
M8 screw
Depth of screw (50")
Min: 0.39" (10mm)
Max:0.63" (16mm)
Depth for 55"/60"/65"
Min: 0.67" (17mm)
Max. 0.91" (23mm)
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post #1250 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by 77Rivers View Post

For a guy that does no gaming and is buying just for Movies and sports... How is this set? I keep hearing soft picture? Being at Best Buy they run that stupid slide! it be nice to see a ST60 with a movie on where you can see and play with the remote! Thanks for any feed back

I usually watch just movies and have watched a limited amount of sports on the set. I have not noticed any picture issues associated with fast panning that frequently happens in soccer/football and hockey. I personally do not consider the picture to be soft. I also have this set in a room that receives a good amount of sun light without any viewing issues. The built-in streaming apps have definitely improved my viewing experience. (Although I now curse Amazon for not understanding how to create a coherent media player interface/browser.)

If I had to say there was one thing that is nagging me with this set is that, for some reason, it will not always complete the HDCP handshake with my Win7 HTPC and nothing works to get the two to try and renegotiate short of power cycling the TV or unplugging the cable. I believe this may have something to do with the Apps but I am still tracing the root cause.

Other things that have caught my attention or that I am still in the process of testing: Television has a wired network hookup but I have noticed several menu settings that seem to imply it has/had wireless functionality. My understanding is it does not so I will have to play with those to see exactly what is going on there. I still need to calibrate the set for 3D and have not tried any source material for this. 3D was never a driving motivator for me to purchase the set so it is low on the priority list. I still have not finished calibrating it for color but, in my opinion, the cinema mode produced acceptable results out of the box.

Overall, in my few weeks experience with this set, I have a very hard time finding something that beats it in terms of performance/$ for movies and sports.
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post #1251 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by p3Orion View Post

This is puzzling. So if you have 1:1 pixel mapping (no overscan) what happens if the pixel orbiter is set to AUTO? Does the image shift,causing a black edge(s) to appear at times?

I'll put it on the list of things to look at tonight. I did not notice anything but I will also say that I was not exactly looking to detect pixel orbiter functionality last night.
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post #1252 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Phatal One View Post

I usually watch just movies and have watched a limited amount of sports on the set. I have not noticed any picture issues associated with fast panning that frequently happens in soccer/football and hockey. I personally do not consider the picture to be soft. I also have this set in a room that receives a good amount of sun light without any viewing issues. The built-in streaming apps have definitely improved my viewing experience. (Although I now curse Amazon for not understanding how to create a coherent media player interface/browser.)

If I had to say there was one thing that is nagging me with this set is that, for some reason, it will not always complete the HDCP handshake with my Win7 HTPC and nothing works to get the two to try and renegotiate short of power cycling the TV or unplugging the cable. I believe this may have something to do with the Apps but I am still tracing the root cause.

Other things that have caught my attention or that I am still in the process of testing: Television has a wired network hookup but I have noticed several menu settings that seem to imply it has/had wireless functionality. My understanding is it does not so I will have to play with those to see exactly what is going on there. I still need to calibrate the set for 3D and have not tried any source material for this. 3D was never a driving motivator for me to purchase the set so it is low on the priority list. I still have not finished calibrating it for color but, in my opinion, the cinema mode produced acceptable results out of the box.

Overall, in my few weeks experience with this set, I have a very hard time finding something that beats it in terms of performance/$ for movies and sports.

Good to hear your positive input. Your content viewing and room conditions are essentially the same as mine. Looking forward to the 60"!
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post #1253 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Phatal One View Post

Other things that have caught my attention or that I am still in the process of testing: Television has a wired network hookup but I have noticed several menu settings that seem to imply it has/had wireless functionality. My understanding is it does not so I will have to play with those to see exactly what is going on there.

According to the product page it has wifi built in - http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-P60ST60
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post #1254 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ThrowingChicken View Post

According to the product page it has wifi built in - http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-P60ST60

I have my ST60 hooked up to my wireless network , so I am certain it has built in wifi ( and it works great )

There is no TV too BIG, only rooms too small
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post #1255 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 12:55 PM
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Somehow I missed that rather obvious bullet point in the marketing materials and a fancy "Wireless LAN" sticker/logo too! biggrin.gif

Hmmm.... that will be interesting. I just hooked it up to my switch in my HT rack that has a wireless network adapter and forgot about it. This will certainly give me a chance to rework my network architecture a bit.
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post #1256 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Phatal One View Post

Somehow I missed that rather obvious bullet point in the marketing materials and a fancy "Wireless LAN" sticker/logo too! biggrin.gif

Hmmm.... that will be interesting. I just hooked it up to my switch in my HT rack that has a wireless network adapter and forgot about it. This will certainly give me a chance to rework my network architecture a bit.

With the apps always running in the background, I wonder if network connectivity has an impact on latency...
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post #1257 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 01:20 PM
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I read that the HDMI ports are on the side. Any issues with the HDMI cable being visible from normal viewing angles on the 60"? Roughly how far is it from the edge of the 60" panel to the HDMI port?

I am asking because I use a stiffer than usual HDMI cable from Blue Jeans cable that has a large bend radius.

Thanks
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post #1258 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ricemanva View Post

I read that the HDMI ports are on the side. Any issues with the HDMI cable being visible from normal viewing angles on the 60"? Roughly how far is it from the edge of the 60" panel to the HDMI port?

I am asking because I use a stiffer than usual HDMI cable from Blue Jeans cable that has a large bend radius.

Thanks
Don't know about the 60", but on my 50" the ports are 3.5" from edge.
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post #1259 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Stump909 View Post

With the apps always running in the background, I wonder if network connectivity has an impact on latency...

I don't think they're always running because you've got to connect to the apps.
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post #1260 of 13232 Old 04-09-2013, 01:41 PM
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Don't know about the 60", but on my 50" the ports are 3.5" from edge.

Thank you. Very helpful.
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