Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 425 - AVS Forum
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post #12721 of 12746 Old 07-24-2014, 11:31 PM
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Plasma meant to be watched in a dark room.
For all I care the bezel could be pink, but when watched in a dark room (as it should) it looks completely black.


I just bought a replacement US Main Board: Main Board, to replace my brand new 200 Hours European one.

EU ST60 Main board (A) lacks the option to select "Dark Level: Light/Dark", 48Hz/60Hz/96Hz at 24p (no options, natively 96Hz), and no 96Hz with 3D mode only 100Hz & 120Hz.
I just hate the phosphor trails at 96Hz (24p), I want the 48Hz and 60Hz modes.
As 50Hz flicker does't bother me so will 48Hz not, we are used to it from the old CRT days.

Also we have funky names to the settings like "Ambient Sensor" instead of C.A.T.S.
We have only 3 temperatures to select: Cool,Normal,Warm instead of the 5 US has.
The positive that it accepts 50Hz natively whether the US does not, or does it?

As the Main Board receives standard voltages (5v, 15v, 3.3v, Vsus, Vda) from the power board (110v or 230v), it does not matter what Power board the TV has.
All other boards like the SS, SS2, SC, SU, SD, C, are exactly the same (same part number) as they are just drivers for the plasma panel.

Stay tuned, I'll post how the operation went through.

Last edited by James Freeman; 07-25-2014 at 12:39 AM.
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post #12722 of 12746 Old 07-24-2014, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by snidely View Post
When our old Panny in our "2nd" home died suddenly - I quickly came here and CNET and both raved about the ST series. I didn't realize it was "only" mid-level just by reading the reviews. I got the feeling it was the best thing out there - so didn't even look into anything else. And since our previous Panny panels were not ugly looking hanging on the wall, didn't think about that possibility. I learned long ago that you can't really look/judge a TV screen or panel itself at a Best Buy with bright lights and the panel set on vivid.
IF this had been in our 1st (more "upscale" home) would not have kept it. Sorry I did keep it. Like I said, had the feeling from reviews - THIS was the set to get.
Fortunately, there's an option for you to use. Don't know the website, but there's a company that makes beautiful portrait frames designed to fit your TV model covering the bezel area. If that doesn't dress-up that bezel edge for you, then nothing will suffice.
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post #12723 of 12746 Old 07-25-2014, 07:11 AM
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IMHO, that's too much for a "used" TV. I've got this same model and paid $1500 brand new. I've owned it over 7 months and have logged in 2257 hrs. At 3000 hrs. it would probably take me a few more months. So you see, Floor Model or whatever, this is a "used" TV that's equal to about 9 months of normal usage. I'd offer the store somewhere between $900-$1000. That's it. Let us know how it works out.
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Fortunately, there's an option for you to use. Don't know the website, but there's a company that makes beautiful portrait frames designed to fit your TV model covering the bezel area. If that doesn't dress-up that bezel edge for you, then nothing will suffice.
Cajieboy - GREAT. Let me know if you remember the website. I'll try doing a search. Have to figure out terms to use.
EDIT: Just occurred to me (did find a couple sites that sells frames) - that if you cover up the ugly bezel - you can't use the remote!

Last edited by snidely; 07-25-2014 at 07:59 AM.
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post #12724 of 12746 Old 07-25-2014, 07:54 AM
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I, also, paid the "retail" price of $1500 for a new one a year ago. If I had to do it over again, would have paid the $$$ for the VT or more probably the Samsung 8500 - knowing what I do now. Before you get an ST60 series make sure the ugliness of the cheap looking shiny bezel and mirror like silver border won't bother you.
There were a lot of discussions and complaints here in various threads about the ST60's silver border, but after buying mine it really turned out to be a non-issue in my home and i only notice it if i look at the TV's edges instead of actually watching the content on the screen. It doesn't distract me at all. I had recommended applying black 1/4" wide automotive pinstriping tape to the shiny border and even tried it on my own ST60 briefly that worked pretty well.

As for the reflective black bezel surrounding the screen, it's very narrow and is much less distracting than the much thicker and wider shiny black reflective bezel on my GT50, and the shiny reflective bezels on molder G10 and PZ700U are even larger than on my ST60. My friends' Kuros have much much larger shiny reflective mirror-like bezels than all of my Panasonics and those are top-tier high-end TVs and i am distracted by them much more than on my Pannys.


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post #12725 of 12746 Old 07-25-2014, 08:09 AM
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Randy -
Guess I was spoiled. Early Panny Plasmas seemed to come in "professional" models and "regular" models. Those models required you to set up external speakers. This started in the days even before you could get a plasma at Circuit City. Even after retail outlets had them on the floor, you could get them with flat black bezels. We did wind up with one Panny with a very flat silverish frame. Not as good as flat black, but acceptable.
We have a lowish end (4 y.o.) Samsung in a 2nd bedroom (LCD) and it doesn't have the tacky mirrored bezel.
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post #12726 of 12746 Old 07-25-2014, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by snidely View Post
EDIT: Just occurred to me (did find a couple sites that sells frames) - that if you cover up the ugly bezel - you can't use the remote!
Get an IR repeater. I use one of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-4-6-8-Em...ht_2742wt_1024

Pick the 4 emitter, unless you need more, it's $17.59. There are lots of others on ebay but if you buy from someone else make sure you get a U.S. plug. You only need about 3/16 " of space for the emitter.
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post #12727 of 12746 Old 07-25-2014, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post
There were a lot of discussions and complaints here in various threads about the ST60's silver border, but after buying mine it really turned out to be a non-issue in my home and i only notice it if i look at the TV's edges instead of actually watching the content on the screen. It doesn't distract me at all. I had recommended applying black 1/4" wide automotive pinstriping tape to the shiny border and even tried it on my own ST60 briefly that worked pretty well.

As for the reflective black bezel surrounding the screen, it's very narrow and is much less distracting than the much thicker and wider shiny black reflective bezel on my GT50, and the shiny reflective bezels on molder G10 and PZ700U are even larger than on my ST60. My friends' Kuros have much much larger shiny reflective mirror-like bezels than all of my Panasonics and those are top-tier high-end TVs and i am distracted by them much more than on my Pannys.


----------------------------
I like the look of the ST60 reminds me of my VT50, the VT60 looks nice also imo

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post #12728 of 12746 Old 07-25-2014, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
I like the look of the ST60 reminds me of my VT50, the VT60 looks nice also imo
I do not notice the bezel since the focus of attention is on the screen. Besides as someone suggested pin striping, maybe just black electrical tape might help also. It has the same sheen as the rest of the bezel!
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post #12729 of 12746 Old 07-25-2014, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by tanman View Post
I do not notice the bezel since the focus of attention is on the screen. Besides as someone suggested pin striping, maybe just black electrical tape might help also. It has the same sheen as the rest of the bezel!
I would never go that route, but I agree it is not noticeable to me.
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post #12730 of 12746 Old 07-26-2014, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by snidely View Post
Cajieboy - GREAT. Let me know if you remember the website. I'll try doing a search. Have to figure out terms to use.
EDIT: Just occurred to me (did find a couple sites that sells frames) - that if you cover up the ugly bezel - you can't use the remote!
As someone else mentioned, just get an IR Emitter. They don't cost very much. I'd call the frame maker prior to ordering, as I bet they have an answer to the IR issue for the remote. It may be a different answer than you got from me and others. What frame style did you like?
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post #12731 of 12746 Old 07-26-2014, 03:50 PM
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Unhappy

A tale of woe . . . .

I have a 55STW60 (W meaning the European version) bought in June and I can report to you that the IR/burn-in issue is alive and well in this last series of Panasonic plasmas.

I ran-in my set for 250 hours with random TV content, almost always with contrast levels <50, zoomed in, so no logos.

I decided that, after the 250 hours, I was going to enjoy the TV in a normal way, and I was looking forward to it!

I had downloaded a couple of calibration settings from different sources to try out and see what the picture would look like.

I did so over a couple of hours, looking at the resulting picture, copying settings, etc.

Soon thereafter I was watching some normal TV and suddenly noticed what looked like 2 burned-in (or IR) areas upper left and lower left corners.

Oh, sh*t, I thought, I'd really hoped this model (make that, set) was not very susceptible to this any more, given the newest technology and the run-in of 250 hours.

I looked more closely and I could read "Viera" upper left and "return" lower left.

And it hit me . . . this was from the settings menu and must have occurred while I was applying the calibration settings!

I checked, and sure enough, there were the two words in the settings menu, in bright white on a black background.

I was in disbelief - - and certainly very disappointed - - with the realization that I had been creating what looks to be a burn-in just by adjusting things in the settings menu. How crazy is that?

I must say, it is a tribute to the colossal stupidity of the Panasonic engineers to create menus with such strong graphics on black (if you don't have some video constantly running in the background, which no one said you have to), the contrast levels of which you can't reduce, and still warn the owner not to leave stationary content in the picture for an undefined time to prevent IR/burn-in!!!

But . . . anytime you want to change any kind of settings (which you occasionally might be inclined to do), you need the settings menu!

This really is kind of insane, and makes me understand the demise of plasma technology far better than before.

I used the screen clear utility for a couple of hours and it seems to have gotten better (in that you can no longer clearly read the words, as at first), but tonight, after watching a movie and some TV programming, it is still clearly visible that something is there.

So, at this point, I don't really know if it will ever entirely disappear (which I sincerely hope it will), or if I now have my first genuine burn-in on my new TV, despite 250 hours of being careful, trying to prevent just this precise situation.

I do know I don't have a chance in hell of Panasonic's support in this situation . . . they would certainly consider the "artifacts" not bothersome enough to take any action, and would say the manual warns against leaving stationary graphic content on the screen, anyway . . . making it "my fault".

Go figure.

Last edited by perchancetodream; 07-26-2014 at 04:01 PM.
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post #12732 of 12746 Old 07-26-2014, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post
I would never go that route, but I agree it is not noticeable to me.
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I do not notice the bezel since the focus of attention is on the screen. Besides as someone suggested pin striping, maybe just black electrical tape might help also. It has the same sheen as the rest of the bezel!
If there is any ambient light at all, even in a darkened room, it reflects. What is worse is that just hanging on the wall it looks bad. Sure wouldn't want it it a nicely decorated room. Since it's in a "2nd home", I'll suck it up. Will consider a a frame - but they do cost as much as the 60/60 did. Should have just spent more to begin with.
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post #12733 of 12746 Old 07-26-2014, 08:44 PM
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@perchancetodream

I have the same IR of Viera logo from the menu every day.
I just run the White Line IR removal tool in the screen menu for 20 minutes and all IR is gone.
I do it every few 2.39:1 movies or at the end of the day.

Thats just the way plasma is.
The excellent PQ requiers some babysitting.
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post #12734 of 12746 Old 07-26-2014, 11:18 PM
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That's not "just the way plasma is". I started playing games on my TV at 75 hours. I can play all the games I want, leave the TV on pause for 10-15 minutes or more, watch channels with logos, have whatever static images go with using the TV, I've never had any IR problems whatsoever, in fact, I've never even seen any IR.

The problem TVs are the exception, not the rule.
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post #12735 of 12746 Old Yesterday, 06:03 AM
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I just let the cleaner utility run a couple of hours, then put on a white screen from a USB Stick.

You can read "Viera" plain as day.

Forget it. I'm calling Panasonic service tomorrow to have someone come by. This is unacceptable.
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post #12736 of 12746 Old Yesterday, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by perchancetodream View Post
I just let the cleaner utility run a couple of hours, then put on a white screen from a USB Stick.

You can read "Viera" plain as day.

Forget it. I'm calling Panasonic service tomorrow to have someone come by. This is unacceptable.
If you think you're mad now, wait until you have a discussion with Panasonic about it.
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post #12737 of 12746 Old Yesterday, 08:24 AM
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That's not "just the way plasma is". I started playing games on my TV at 75 hours. I can play all the games I want, leave the TV on pause for 10-15 minutes or more, watch channels with logos, have whatever static images go with using the TV, I've never had any IR problems whatsoever, in fact, I've never even seen any IR.

The problem TVs are the exception, not the rule.
Agree 100%, and ditto to my own experiences with the ST60. No problems, period. All CE product lines experience a degree of failures, etc. Panasonic's reliability statistics rates it as one of the top companies with the least amount of failures and/or defects. Unless you're "abusing" your display, you should never have to perform a daily screen wipe, or see logos burned into the screen, etc. If you do, then I'd have to say you have a defective panel.

As mentioned by Samijubal, problem TV's are the exception, not the rule. It's just that happy satisfied owners don't usually come on a forum to report that fact.
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post #12738 of 12746 Old Yesterday, 09:06 AM
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If you think you're mad now, wait until you have a discussion with Panasonic about it.
You've got that right! All Mfg'ers consider "burn-in" as owner abuse, and do not cover it in the warranty. Same goes for Extended Warranties by third party companies like Square Trade, etc. If you manage to get Panasonic to fix this display for free, then consider yourself lucky.

This is why I'm really careful about [B]where[B] I buy my A/V products, especially when spending that kind of money. Also, I immediately run the TV for about 300 hours straight 24hrs. a day, and pay careful attention to the performance, screen & picture. If I see an anomaly and/or defect of any kind, the TV is going back. Always use stores with very good return policies. Studies show that most CE failures will occur early on in the life of the product. Fortunately for me, I have yet to return a display.

Hey Cadette, ready for that Badger game on August 30th!!! Tiger meat!...Tiger meat!!...Tiger meat!!!
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post #12739 of 12746 Old Yesterday, 09:52 AM
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Hey Cadett, ready for that Badger game on August 30th!!! Tiger meat!...Tiger meat!!...Tiger meat!!!
Can't Wait!!!
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post #12740 of 12746 Old Yesterday, 12:17 PM
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You've got that right! All Mfg'ers consider "burn-in" as owner abuse, and do not cover it in the warranty.
You ignore the fact that there is no question here of owner abuse . . . an owner has to use the settings menu in normal operation of the unit, and if the menu burns in, it sure as hell isn't the owner's fault. How else are you supposed to use the TV, never change any settings?!?
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post #12741 of 12746 Old Yesterday, 01:27 PM
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You ignore the fact that there is no question here of owner abuse .
And how do you prove that to Panasonic? That screen could have been up a few minutes or many hours, there's no way to prove one or the other. All warranties say repairs will be made at the manufacterer's discretion. It's definitely worth a try contacting Panasonic but don't get your hopes too high. Not many people get satisfaction from the manufacterer when it comes to plasmas and IR/burn-in. Be polite and patient and maybe you'll get lucky.

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post #12742 of 12746 Old Yesterday, 03:38 PM
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You ignore the fact that there is no question here of owner abuse . . . an owner has to use the settings menu in normal operation of the unit, and if the menu burns in, it sure as hell isn't the owner's fault. How else are you supposed to use the TV, never change any settings?!?
Sorry to hear of your problem, but I ignored nothing. I understand the situation, and was only stating the fact as to how all Mfg'ers & EW Co. view this issue. No use in sugar coating it. Be very careful how you speak to Customer No-Service and any other person representing Panasonic when you plead your case. As I mentioned, consider yourself lucky if they fix it for free. Exactly when did you buy the TV and how many hours are on it?
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Fellows, can you please check this image for banding in RGB Full & Pixel Direct (HDMI from PC).
https://www.photron-digix.jp/support..._grad_gray.png

I can clearly see banding in RGB Full mode with Pixel Direct On, whether RGB Limited and YCbCr are smooth.
When Pixel Direct is Off, RGB Full is also smooth but not 4:4:4.

It seems that Pixel Direct disables the internal High Bit-Depth proccessing, and creates visible banding when range stretching is done on the ST60 processor.
It appears the the native input range of the TVs processor is 16-235 RGB or YCbCr because it remains smooth Pixel Direct On or Off,
but RGB Full (0-255) is somehow compressed in the TV to 16-235.

If it's actually the case, ST60 in RGB Full mode sucks.
Thus can never be used as a propper RGB monitor.

Can you confirm...?

Last edited by James Freeman; Today at 12:02 AM.
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post #12744 of 12746 Old Today, 01:30 AM
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Exactly when did you buy the TV and how many hours are on it?
Sorry, not mad at anyone here, just slightly frustrated . . . .
Bought in June, approx. 270 hours, the first 250 were careful break-in.

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post #12745 of 12746 Old Today, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by perchancetodream View Post
A tale of woe . . . .

I have a 55STW60 (W meaning the European version) bought in June and I can report to you that the IR/burn-in issue is alive and well in this last series of Panasonic plasmas.
I have the 65" European, recently bought, so perhaps one of the last batches. Close to 400 hours on it now.

In my case, IR happens usually right after I turn the TV on, from menus, etc., but it is not persistent, it goes away in minutes and is only really visible on solid light backgrounds.

The worst I experienced was after watching the World Cup final. It was about three hours straight. Next day I noticed the channel logo and game score on the screen. That only went away after ~3 hours of TV watching and white bar scrolling. But it did go away.

I'm not calling anyone and not sending the TV back. For TV watching (which is quite limited in my case), I now have the overscan and pixel orbiter turned on.
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post #12746 of 12746 Old Today, 08:11 AM
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Sorry, not mad at anyone here, just slightly frustrated . . . .
Bought in June, approx. 270 hours, the first 250 were careful break-in.
I'd try calling the store where you bought it, as well as Panasonic. Not sure how these things are handled outside the US. It would help if you put your location in the Avatar box on the left.
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