Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 428 - AVS Forum
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post #12811 of 13121 Old 08-20-2014, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by PRgymnast View Post
I had a friend cat-sit for me while I was away on vacation. They said in a fit of stupid TV rage, a remote was thrown towards the direction of the TV, not intending to hit it but it did. This cracked the screen and caused the TV to make strange noises. The person offered to pay for full cost of the TV, which was $1250 but I cannot find a plasma in that price range that I like soooo, hence my dilemma. I looked at the Panny 55-680 ($1100) and Sammy 55-7150 ($1300). And I like the Sammy LED more than the Panny LED. So I haven't ordered it yet but I think that's what I'll end up with.
There is no excuse for your friend to be throwing your remote control (that he doesn't own), much less destroying your TV that is pretty much irreplaceable because he can't control himself. I would not settle for what you paid for it as that won't be enough to buy an equitable replacement now that the ST60 has been discontinued and is no longer available. I'd make him pony up and pay for the F8500 or LG OLED, unless you want to settle for a Sony or Samsung LCD TV that won't look nearly as good as the TV he recklessly destroyed. His irresponsibility has put you in a difficult position.
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post #12812 of 13121 Old 08-22-2014, 06:09 AM
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Hey there,

I have a 55st60 and have been having a possible issue with it for some time now. On somewhat still pictures, it is incredible. However, as soon as an object starts to move and the camera doesn't follow that object (i.e. a fixed camera shot and a car drives by and the camera doesn't move), that object isn't clear at all - it's a total blur. And the object doesn't have to go fast either. But as soon as it stops moving the image is CRYSTAL CLEAR again.

This is my first plasma and I don't think this should be like that. I don't see this happen on others plasma (Buddy has a F5500 from Samsung).

All settings like motion smooth and sharpness are off.

Is there a test I can do on this tv to tell if something is wrong? I am also noticing FAINT lines on the right side of the panel that I can only see on really light backgrounds. I have read about these from other members - some say they are just normal for Pannys - others say they are not.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

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post #12813 of 13121 Old 08-22-2014, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by davemsc View Post
Hey there,

I have a 55st60 and have been having a possible issue with it for some time now. On somewhat still pictures, it is incredible. However, as soon as an object starts to move and the camera doesn't follow that object (i.e. a fixed camera shot and a car drives by and the camera doesn't move), that object isn't clear at all - it's a total blur. And the object doesn't have to go fast either. But as soon as it stops moving the image is CRYSTAL CLEAR again.

This is my first plasma and I don't think this should be like that. I don't see this happen on others plasma (Buddy has a F5500 from Samsung).

All settings like motion smooth and sharpness are off.

Is there a test I can do on this tv to tell if something is wrong? I am also noticing FAINT lines on the right side of the panel that I can only see on really light backgrounds. I have read about these from other members - some say they are just normal for Pannys - others say they are not.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
That's usually cable compression if that's what you're watching. Satellites do it also though not as bad.

Try a Blu-ray if you have one.
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post #12814 of 13121 Old 08-22-2014, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Does anyone see rainbow artifacts (phosphor trailing) in 96Hz mode with 24p?
I do. That's why I replaced my European board with a US one.

60Hz in 24p does not produce judder, apparently because of some very nice algorithm like MadVR's smooth motion.
But I don't use this because I can still mildly see the object in motion "blend" and slowly smear into the next position.
I see the same phenomenon with Madvr's smooth motion.
Although, I can only see this on this Plasma which is not sample-and-hold like an LCD, but a single short flash (2500 FFD) like a CRT which is perfect for motion.

I decided to settle on 48Hz because the minor flicker (to my eye) does not bother me and I get no rainbow artifacts nor smearing/blending.
I've never tried 96hz mode, However, I do notice the rainbow artifacts sometimes at 60hz and the "blend/smear" that you speak of. It seems to depend a lot on the source content though.

I can live with it though considering the alternative is LCD with much worse motion problems.

My main peeve with plasmas (at least Panasonic plasmas, never owned another brand), is that I get this strange band of horizontal discoloration sometimes depending on the other content at the same vertical position. For example if I'm viewing the on screen menu, I can see a dark horizontal bar to the left right that coincides with the vertical position I have selected in the menu. I see a similar effect that can cause a horizontal band of discoloration while watching certain content, especially animated stuff. Is this an issue with the dithering algorithm or something?

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post #12815 of 13121 Old 08-22-2014, 01:52 PM
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I believe you are describing line bleed. It is inherent with plasma technology. I notice it less now, but it is always there.
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post #12816 of 13121 Old 08-22-2014, 02:00 PM
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I believe you are describing line bleed. It is inherent with plasma technology. I notice it less now, but it is always there.
Ah, "line bleed" sounds like a great term for what I'm seeing.
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post #12817 of 13121 Old 08-23-2014, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by damag0r View Post
when I had a UT50 I managed to get a logo stuck fairly early on and it took quite a bit of time to get it to go away so it was absolutely not ever noticeable at all.

It should eventually age out, even if it takes months. Although I can't guarantee that.
Thanks for the feedback! Can I ask how long it took for your logo to fade?

I've been running these logo removing videos for over 24 hours now and have seen little to no improvement:
http://beginwithsoftware.com/videogu.../#.U_kiYvmSx8E

It's hard to describe but the logo I'm seeing has a grayish/dark tinge against a white/light background that's quite different to other types of IR I have seen. I also checked the hours on my set and found it has already logged 2800 hours.

As much as I love this TV, I know if it doesn't fade out over time, it'll just bother me every time I see it. I'd rather return it and maybe pony up a bit more cash towards at VT60 which are still in stock at some retailers here in Melbourne.
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post #12818 of 13121 Old 08-24-2014, 03:39 AM
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Heat, Line Bleed, APL effects ABL thus Gamma, Dithering Noise, Image Retention, Burn-In, nightmare to calibrate.
That's the price we pay for good a Contrast Ratio, wide viewing angle, and blur free motion in 60fps content (not much of it anyway).

Owning an ST60 (and loving perfect calibration) I can say: Plasma is a pain in the ass for anything but contrast ratio, not worth the positives.
Hope that cheap OLED TV's come soon and Slay the last of them.... so that we can buy a nice OLED and throw out plasmas where they belong.

Meanwhile I can tolerate mediocre (at best) Gamma, Colors, Greyscale...
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post #12819 of 13121 Old 08-24-2014, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mrchowmowan View Post
Thanks for the feedback! Can I ask how long it took for your logo to fade?

I've been running these logo removing videos for over 24 hours now and have seen little to no improvement:
http://beginwithsoftware.com/videogu.../#.U_kiYvmSx8E

It's hard to describe but the logo I'm seeing has a grayish/dark tinge against a white/light background that's quite different to other types of IR I have seen. I also checked the hours on my set and found it has already logged 2800 hours.

As much as I love this TV, I know if it doesn't fade out over time, it'll just bother me every time I see it. I'd rather return it and maybe pony up a bit more cash towards at VT60 which are still in stock at some retailers here in Melbourne.
Just use the scrolling bar utility. I wouldn't bother with those videos. Also, one night is unlikely to show improvement if the IR is bad, especially if the IR is from the first 100-300 or so hours of use. It took over a month for me to get rid of a logo on my UT50. If you're not willing to wait it out then just return it.
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post #12820 of 13121 Old 08-25-2014, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by damag0r View Post
Just use the scrolling bar utility. I wouldn't bother with those videos. Also, one night is unlikely to show improvement if the IR is bad, especially if the IR is from the first 100-300 or so hours of use. It took over a month for me to get rid of a logo on my UT50. If you're not willing to wait it out then just return it.
Good news! I'm just starting to see some progress on my logo. I think I'll wait it out and just mix up content, scrolling bar and those burn-in videos. Good to know yours took some time -- I just wanted some reassurance that it would fade eventually. Based on what I'm seeing and the time taken for your logo to fade, I feel pretty confident now it should just be matter of time before my beautiful new(ish) TV is free and clear

Thanks again. I can relax a bit now!
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post #12821 of 13121 Old 08-25-2014, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Heat, Line Bleed, APL effects ABL thus Gamma, Dithering Noise, Image Retention, Burn-In, nightmare to calibrate.
That's the price we pay for good a Contrast Ratio, wide viewing angle, and blur free motion in 60fps content (not much of it anyway).

Owning an ST60 (and loving perfect calibration) I can say: Plasma is a pain in the ass for anything but contrast ratio, not worth the positives.
Hope that cheap OLED TV's come soon and Slay the last of them.... so that we can buy a nice OLED and throw out plasmas where they belong.

Meanwhile I can tolerate mediocre (at best) Gamma, Colors, Greyscale...
ST60 calibrates just fine with the right pattern size and technique, it is not reference but calibrates very well. Lots of people would disagree with your assessment.

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post #12822 of 13121 Old 08-25-2014, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by mrchowmowan View Post
Good news! I'm just starting to see some progress on my logo. I think I'll wait it out and just mix up content, scrolling bar and those burn-in videos. Good to know yours took some time -- I just wanted some reassurance that it would fade eventually. Based on what I'm seeing and the time taken for your logo to fade, I feel pretty confident now it should just be matter of time before my beautiful new(ish) TV is free and clear

Thanks again. I can relax a bit now!
I'd let it go until you are just about out of time to return it and if the logo hasn't almost totally faded at that point, then you might want to return it. If the IR is from like 1000 hours of having that logo up it may be extremely hard to age out. If the previous owner was only watching those channels just enough to get IR it shouldn't take too long though.

Without knowing the history/usage of the previous owner it's hard to guess.

For me it didn't take too awfully long for the most noticeable aspects of it to go away, but for it to 100% completely age out with no discoloration under any circumstances it took well over a month. If you notice it fading down to where you can barely make out where the logo was anymore, then it should hopefully come totally out, again after considerable time though.

My ST60 has been pretty resistant to IR in general, but when I had the UT50 I replaced with this ST60, I found that a logo put in during the first 100 hours or so of use took literally about 10x as much age as it took the logo to get stuck to finally fade totally out. So if that logo was on the screen after watching the channel for 100 hours it could very well take 1000 hours of age or more for it to be 100% gone with no discoloration even on white screens.

It also depends on the panel too. Some come off of the line better or worse in this respect than others.

If you're still concerned with it in a week or so, take some pictures.
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post #12823 of 13121 Old 08-25-2014, 06:17 AM
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ST60 calibrates just fine with the right pattern size and technique, it is not reference but calibrates very well. Lots of people would disagree with your assessment.
I have too have managed to get pretty good results but only after I have created my own APL calibration patterns.

What I'm saying is Plasma is dynamic by nature and that is not good for reference display.
For reference we want stable and predictable behavior which plasma can't give.
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post #12824 of 13121 Old 08-25-2014, 06:29 AM
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I have too have managed to get pretty good results but only after I have created my own APL calibration patterns.

What I'm saying is Plasma is dynamic by nature and that is not good for reference display.
For reference we want stable and predictable behavior which plasma can't give.
Who claimed the ST60 was reference ? No reputable publication that I am aware of. If that is your criteria then no the ST60 is not reference but it is still capable of a pretty darn good image. Most consumers don't even know what calibration is let alone whether a set is reference. Just out of curiousity what meter and software package do you use for your calibrations ?

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post #12825 of 13121 Old 08-25-2014, 06:44 AM
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Just out of curiosity what meter and software package do you use for your calibrations ?
i1 Display 2
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ArgyllCMS+DispcalGUI
HCFR

Nothing fancy, but it covers everything I need.
I'm really grateful for these software.

Been calibrating my Dell U2410 for years with sub 0.5 dE CIE 2000.

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post #12826 of 13121 Old 08-25-2014, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Heat, Line Bleed, APL effects ABL thus Gamma, Dithering Noise, Image Retention, Burn-In, nightmare to calibrate.
That's the price we pay for good a Contrast Ratio, wide viewing angle, and blur free motion in 60fps content (not much of it anyway).

Owning an ST60 (and loving perfect calibration) I can say: Plasma is a pain in the ass for anything but contrast ratio, not worth the positives.
Hope that cheap OLED TV's come soon and Slay the last of them.... so that we can buy a nice OLED and throw out plasmas where they belong.

Meanwhile I can tolerate mediocre (at best) Gamma, Colors, Greyscale...
Add buzzing to that list. I definitely won't miss that!
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post #12827 of 13121 Old 08-25-2014, 01:12 PM
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Add buzzing to that list. I definitely won't miss that!
That's pretty amusing coming from a Samsung owner

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post #12828 of 13121 Old 08-25-2014, 01:48 PM
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Add buzzing to that list. I definitely won't miss that!
Add rainbow effect to the list; not phosphor trails, but red/blue/yellow flashes of light I and others observe in certain high contrast scenes when we move our eyes around even a paused image.
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post #12829 of 13121 Old 08-25-2014, 01:53 PM
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Add rainbow effect to the list; not phosphor trails, but red/blue/yellow flashes of light I and others observe in certain high contrast scenes when we move our eyes around even a paused image.
Definitely! I just hate 96Hz for that.

Don't get me wrong, I love my ST60... for now... BUT... It's almost the end of 2014 and we still don't have cheap Emissive Solid State Displays (OLED) for comfortable price.
Even though, I'm not worried as I know that by 2016 we will forget Plasma as though it never existed.
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post #12830 of 13121 Old 08-25-2014, 04:50 PM
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Definitely! I just hate 96Hz for that.
I wish I only saw it in 96 Hz mode, which I don't use due to subtle flicker in some scenes that is absent from 60 Hz. The only way I don't observe rainbows in susceptible 2D material is by switching to "Standard" mode with its cooler Color Temp, low Contrast, and CATS, and really that just minimizes it. I've never, ever seen it in 3D, the handful of times I used 3D when I first got the set. Panasonic managed to create a defect that only affects more or less properly calibrated 2D modes while avoiding it altogether in the utterly useless 3D gimmick mode. All hail.

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Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Don't get me wrong, I love my ST60... for now... BUT... It's almost the end of 2014 and we still don't have cheap Emissive Solid State Displays (OLED) for comfortable price.
Even though, I'm not worried as I know that by 2016 we will forget Plasma as though it never existed.
I hope you're right about 2016. I went with the ST60 as my first ever plasma when my CCFL-LCD set died and I found several LED-LCD sets not very good, but plasmas do (did) have their issues. If the deep, non-fluctuating black level wasn't so important, I would have happily gone with LCD.

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post #12831 of 13121 Old 08-25-2014, 05:14 PM
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Bash away lots of happy owners out there and the vt60 is even better ! News flash all the 4k Lcds were literally shellacked by a degraded Samsung plasma with 2012 black levels in the HDTV shoot-out. Pray for oled !

Last edited by chunon; 08-26-2014 at 04:51 AM.
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post #12832 of 13121 Old 08-25-2014, 05:41 PM
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Bash away lots of happy owners out there and the vt60 is even better ! News flash all the 4k Lcds were literally shellacked by aa degraded Samsung plasma with 2011 black levels in the HDTV shoot-out. Pray for oled !
I corrected that for you

It would have taken a stable .0022 for 2012 (as opposed to a .004 ANSI)
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post #12833 of 13121 Old 08-25-2014, 05:46 PM
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I corrected that for you

It would have taken a stable .0022 for 2012 (as opposed to a .004 ANSI)
Ouch I was trying to be generous

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post #12834 of 13121 Old 08-25-2014, 06:47 PM
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You all talk like OLED is going to be flawless, the Holy Grail of TVs, good luck with that. ALL TVs have flaws, especially early generations.
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post #12835 of 13121 Old 08-26-2014, 12:55 AM
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Swapping mainboard from ST60 to STW60

Hi,
is it possible to swap mainboard from txp50st60y to txp50stw60? I found cheap new mainboard from stw60 (this is german version st60) and this version has dvbs tuner...What else do I need? Thank you.
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post #12836 of 13121 Old 08-26-2014, 03:30 AM
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Is it possible to swap mainboard from txp50st60y to txp50stw60?
Yes.
I have swapped European to US mainboard, all went smooth, besides breaking my 5 year warranty on a brand new TV.
And now my European 50" thinks it is a US 55" but its not an inch bigger, although it wishes it was.
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post #12837 of 13121 Old 08-26-2014, 03:48 AM
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Has anyone noticed that the colour balance on the ST60 seems to shift to red after a certain amount of hours?

Since I've bought the TV and used D-Nice's panel prep + settings I've established a terrific picture until more recently when I've noticed the red shift.

My panel is at 2150 hours right now in terms of age.

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post #12838 of 13121 Old 08-26-2014, 04:53 AM
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Has anyone noticed that the colour balance on the ST60 seems to shift to red after a certain amount of hours?

Since I've bought the TV and used D-Nice's panel prep + settings I've established a terrific picture until more recently when I've noticed the red shift.

My panel is at 2150 hours right now in terms of age.
A shift towards red in the greyscale has been typical for Panasonic plasmas over the last several years, what you are seeing would be easily corrected with a calibration.

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post #12839 of 13121 Old 08-26-2014, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
A shift towards red in the greyscale has been typical for Panasonic plasmas over the last several years, what you are seeing would be easily corrected with a calibration.

Sadly i don't have any calibration equipment.

I do however have the Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark 2nd Edition. What specific test images could i use to correct this issue?


Last edited by MetalMX23; 08-26-2014 at 05:07 AM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalMX23 View Post
Sadly i don't have any calibration equipment.

I do however have the Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark 2nd Edition.
Not the ideal way to do it but you could put up the grayscale ramp and then adjust the 2 point white balance controls, specifically the high red controls reduce a couple of clicks see if that mitigates things. Also you could try going to Warm 1 for a color temp if you are at Warm 2.
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