Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 452 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13531 of 13601 Old 01-27-2016, 01:33 PM
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3M exterior mounting tape

'this is the tape I used to hold the bezel in place

Holds up to 5 lbs (2.3 kg)

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/3m...l#.Vqk3E_krK00

"Industrial quality exterior mounting tape
Weather resistant for outdoor or indoor use
Can be used on textured surfaces such as painted cement or brick
Holds up to 5 lbs (2.3 kg)"

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post #13532 of 13601 Old 01-27-2016, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ace54 View Post
The bright red power light can get annoying The ZT60 power light dims after about a minute when turned on the ST60s stays bright this can easily be fixed with scotch tape and black permanent marker

check picture not nearly as bright but can still be seen like the ZT light

Attachment 1214458
There's a product called LightDims for this that is well worth its low price.
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post #13533 of 13601 Old 01-28-2016, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ace54 View Post
The bright red power light can get annoying The ZT60 power light dims after about a minute when turned on the ST60s stays bright this can easily be fixed with scotch tape and black permanent marker
Yes, Light Dims work great on lot of my devices, even in my cars....

Official Panasonic GT50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk]


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post #13534 of 13601 Old 02-04-2016, 03:28 PM
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So I recently came accross second hand TC-P55ST60. Is it advisable to buy 2-3 year old plasma?


This tv retailed for around $1,500, what would be a decent price for a used set?
Anything specific I should look for when I go to check it out, other than dead pixels?
is there a way to check how many hours its been watched through settings?
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post #13535 of 13601 Old 02-04-2016, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by oraphus View Post
So I recently came accross second hand TC-P55ST60. Is it advisable to buy 2-3 year old plasma?


This tv retailed for around $1,500, what would be a decent price for a used set?
Anything specific I should look for when I go to check it out, other than dead pixels?
is there a way to check how many hours its been watched through settings?
I'd check for uniformity. I've had three ST60 50's in my possession and all had some amount of pink discoloration on gray backgrounds. If you don't have a test pattern go to the Eco menu. The mostly grey background will show it. It's worse on gray but I would also see it in shots of the sky etc in normal content.
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post #13536 of 13601 Old 02-04-2016, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by oraphus View Post
So I recently came accross second hand TC-P55ST60. Is it advisable to buy 2-3 year old plasma?
As long as the screen and filter and bezel etc are in acceptable condition, and the panel doesn't show any burn-in or issues it should otherwise be fine.


Quote:
This tv retailed for around $1,500, what would be a decent price for a used set?
It actually retailed for $1,295. That was the regular price Panasonic's online store, on Amazon, and at Best Buy from late summer to end of production in December. I kept waiting for a sale to occur but after a few months i ended up buying mine for full price ($1,295) before they disappeared.


Quote:
Anything specific I should look for when I go to check it out, other than dead pixels?
I'd check the panel for hairline cracks (shine a flashlight over every single inch), and of course check to see if it has any burn-in (using the colored break-in slides on a USB stick).


Quote:
is there a way to check how many hours its been watched through settings?
Quick way to Check the Hours Used Via the regular User Menu (same for all 2013 models):Go to Menu > Help > Version > and scroll down to Status4. On that line you'll see a letter A or B or C followed by a 4-digit number which is the number of hours. A0039-0000 for instance would be 39 hours. C1926-00000 would be 1,926 hours.
As long as the TV is in good condition, i wouldn't obsess about high hours. The panel is rated for 100,000 hours before brightness is reduced which is like 30 years of watching it all day long.

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post #13537 of 13601 Old 02-04-2016, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
I'd check for uniformity. I've had three ST60 50's in my possession and all had some amount of pink discoloration on gray backgrounds. If you don't have a test pattern go to the Eco menu. The mostly grey background will show it. It's worse on gray but I would also see it in shots of the sky etc in normal content.
Posterization, all plasmas have it. I doubt you can find a flat screen TV that doesn't have it somewhere in the grayscale.
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post #13538 of 13601 Old 02-05-2016, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
I'd check for uniformity. I've had three ST60 50's in my possession and all had some amount of pink discoloration on gray backgrounds. If you don't have a test pattern go to the Eco menu. The mostly grey background will show it. It's worse on gray but I would also see it in shots of the sky etc in normal content.

This sounds like greyscale tracking error to me and not posterization.


Edit: Or it could be non-uniformity.

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post #13539 of 13601 Old 02-05-2016, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oraphus View Post
So I recently came accross second hand TC-P55ST60. Is it advisable to buy 2-3 year old plasma?


This tv retailed for around $1,500, what would be a decent price for a used set?
Anything specific I should look for when I go to check it out, other than dead pixels?
is there a way to check how many hours its been watched through settings?

Yes, as Randy said check for burn-in/image retention, and also get the hours that have been put on the set. Depending on the hours, you might be able to negotiate a lower price. But there is no need to fear high hours if the set is in good shape and has no burn in.


I'd say a fair price for one with less than 3000 hours in excellent condition with no image retention is around $1000, but I don't think I'd pay more than $1000 unless it was pristine with super low hours.
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post #13540 of 13601 Old 02-05-2016, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
I'd check for uniformity. I've had three ST60 50's in my possession and all had some amount of pink discoloration on gray backgrounds. If you don't have a test pattern go to the Eco menu. The mostly grey background will show it. It's worse on gray but I would also see it in shots of the sky etc in normal content.
I also own 2x 50 inch ST60 model. I do notice that too... the pink discoloration is mostly on the center of the screen and is only noticeable in full white and gray backgrounds (in Cinema mode, of course). When I watch a bluray Hollywood movie the pink discoloration is barely noticeable. Another thing I noticed is that when I watched Schindler's List (a black & white movie) a week ago I noticed a hint of green & pink tint here and there, depending on the graduations of the gray . Is there a way to cure these discoloration by getting it professional calibrated?

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post #13541 of 13601 Old 02-05-2016, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 34HFX83 View Post
Another thing I noticed is that when I watched Schindler's List (a black & white movie) a week ago I noticed a hit of green & pink tint here and there, depending on the graduations of the gray . Is there a way to cure these discoloration by getting it professional calibrated?

Yes, or you can get a calibration disk with greyscale patterns and try to improve it by eye, but it's super tough to do that.


This set can be super fine tuned, so it's one definitely worth getting professionally calibrated. I recommend Chad B, but there are many good ones who post and participate here.
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post #13542 of 13601 Old 02-05-2016, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 34HFX83 View Post
I also own 2x 50 inch ST60 model. I do notice that too... the pink discoloration is mostly on the center of the screen and is only noticeable in full white and gray backgrounds (in Cinema mode, of course). When I watch a bluray Hollywood movie the pink discoloration is barely noticeable. Another thing I noticed is that when I watched Schindler's List (a black & white movie) a week ago I noticed a hint of green & pink tint here and there, depending on the graduations of the gray . Is there a way to cure these discoloration by getting it professional calibrated?
The higher the contrast is the less you'll see it. Higher quality sources show less of it than lower quality sources.
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post #13543 of 13601 Old 02-05-2016, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post
Quick way to Check the Hours Used Via the regular User Menu (same for all 2013 models):Go to Menu > Help > Version > and scroll down to Status4. On that line you'll see a letter A or B or C followed by a 4-digit number which is the number of hours. A0039-0000 for instance would be 39 hours. C1926-00000 would be 1,926 hours.
As long as the TV is in good condition, i wouldn't obsess about high hours. The panel is rated for 100,000 hours before brightness is reduced which is like 30 years of watching it all day long.
Thanks Randy for this bit of information. I've had my TC-P60ST60 since May 2013 and never knew that there was an hours counter in the "Help" section of the Menu. I've got 6437 hours on mine and I believe it looks just as good as when ChadB calibrated it. I'm sure I could use a touch up calibration though.

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post #13544 of 13601 Old 02-06-2016, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
Yes, or you can get a calibration disk with greyscale patterns and try to improve it by eye, but it's super tough to do that.


This set can be super fine tuned, so it's one definitely worth getting professionally calibrated. I recommend Chad B, but there are many good ones who post and participate here.
You can't calibrate out uniformity issues. Chad B would tell you the same.
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post #13545 of 13601 Old 02-06-2016, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 34HFX83 View Post
I also own 2x 50 inch ST60 model. I do notice that too... the pink discoloration is mostly on the center of the screen and is only noticeable in full white and gray backgrounds (in Cinema mode, of course). When I watch a bluray Hollywood movie the pink discoloration is barely noticeable. Another thing I noticed is that when I watched Schindler's List (a black & white movie) a week ago I noticed a hint of green & pink tint here and there, depending on the graduations of the gray . Is there a way to cure these discoloration by getting it professional calibrated?
This is why I eventually sold all of them. Pink 'blob' in some portion of the screen...greenish tint elsewhere. And my meter would detect it as well (Which is why you can't calibrate it out...the meter will get different readings on each portion of the display and the adjustments are universal for all areas of the screen).

Don't get me wrong....I don't mean this as a knock against Panasonic since personally I feel like no manufacturer cares all that much about uniformity anymore. I assume it costs money to achieve it and they can't be bothered.

My F8500 has some discolored areas on a white test pattern but it is nowhere near as bad as any of the ST60s were and of course the F8500 has other weaknesses that the St60 does not. I just though that ultimately it was a better TV for ME because uniformity is very important to me.

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post #13546 of 13601 Old 02-06-2016, 09:57 PM
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Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread

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Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
You can't calibrate out uniformity issues. Chad B would tell you the same.

It didn't sound like he was describing a uniformity issue. I believe he was describing an issue with grayscale tracking, where there were color tints depending on the gradiation of gray, which I do fix with calibration.

Edit: my mistake, sounds like he has a uniformity issue (which I can't fix) and possibly a tracking issue as well.

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post #13547 of 13601 Old 02-07-2016, 02:50 AM
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Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread

Some of the 50" models of the Panasonic 60 series are known to be problematic, something that has received surprisingly little attention in the US - perhaps the 50" size is less popular there?

You might take note of this thread:

http://www.avmagazine.it/forum/74-di...eeding-e-aloni

Note: that is the VT60, which in Europe was available in the 50" size (unlike in the US). However, in terms of the issue noted in this thread, it is a TV that behaves similarly.

Some of the behaviour of these TVs is quite unusual, so it tends to be misunderstood or miscategorized. This is an image that was in that thread:



You might look at that and think that the upper part of the screen is prone to pink tinting. But that is not the case. What is happening there concerns the number of subpixels illuminated at one time in a single horizontal row. When that number is large, the whole row or the centre of it tends toward a pink/magenta tint. If you look at that image, you will see that the non-dark part of it is wider at the top than it is below. It is the width, the geometry, of the light part that is associated with the tint in many cases, rather than the screen position per se, but that is to probably to oversimplify. If you want an extreme example of this phenomenon, see below:



I've had 3 entirely different "high-end" Panasonic plasmas so far and none has had perfect uniformity. On my current VT, I tend not to be bothered too much by this, which in most instances is very slight (the coloured line bleed is the most noticeable aspect, but it is not everpresent to a detectable extent). I can imagine, though, that some people would be aghast, especially given that these sets were awarded "reference status" by some reviewers.
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post #13548 of 13601 Old 02-07-2016, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
It didn't sound like he was describing a uniformity issue. I believe he was describing an issue with grayscale tracking, where there were color tints depending on the gradiation of gray, which I do fix with calibration.

That's what I thought too.
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post #13549 of 13601 Old 02-07-2016, 05:24 AM
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I've had 3 entirely different "high-end" Panasonic plasmas so far and none has had perfect uniformity.

It's the inescapable panel lottery. I've been super lucky with the Panasonics I've bought. My first -- an 50ST50 -- had virtually perfect uniformity. The second one -- an 50S60 (and the one I have now) has very good, but not quite perfect uniformity. But the imperfection is super slight and is even OK for me and I'm kind of OCD for uniformity.


My parents bought a 55ST50 and it doesn't have good uniformity. It's not super bad, but I would have exchanged it for another. However, they never noticed it and I haven't said anything. Every company has to come up with acceptable imperfection standards that keep the costs low. The average consumer probably never checks for uniformity and would only notice it if it were really bad. Hence, why many noticeably non-uniform panels (to us) get a passing grade and don't get discarded by the manufacturers.

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post #13550 of 13601 Old 02-07-2016, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxo View Post
Some of the 50" models of the Panasonic 60 series are known to be problematic, something that has received surprisingly little attention in the US - perhaps the 50" size is less popular there?

You might take note of this thread:

http://www.avmagazine.it/forum/74-di...eeding-e-aloni

Note: that is the VT60, which in Europe was available in the 50" size (unlike in the US). However, in terms of the issue noted in this thread, it is a TV that behaves similarly.

Some of the behaviour of these TVs is quite unusual, so it tends to be misunderstood or miscategorized. This is an image that was in that thread:



You might look at that and think that the upper part of the screen is prone to pink tinting. But that is not the case. What is happening there concerns the number of subpixels illuminated at one time in a single horizontal row. When that number is large, the whole row or the centre of it tends toward a pink/magenta tint. If you look at that image, you will see that the non-dark part of it is wider at the top than it is below. It is the width, the geometry, of the light part that is associated with the tint in many cases, rather than the screen position per se, but that is to probably to oversimplify. If you want an extreme example of this phenomenon, see below:



I've had 3 entirely different "high-end" Panasonic plasmas so far and none has had perfect uniformity. On my current VT, I tend not to be bothered too much by this, which in most instances is very slight (the coloured line bleed is the most noticeable aspect, but it is not everpresent to a detectable extent). I can imagine, though, that some people would be aghast, especially given that these sets were awarded "reference status" by some reviewers.
This somewhat fits the theory that I have always had that the poor uniformity on these sets is partially due to the need to meet new energy usage requirements and that plasma TVs were always intended to be power hungry beasts. Basically (and this greatly over simplifies it) the pixels run out of juice before peak white can be achieved and some pixels react to this 'starvation' worse than others.

I found a used Kuro from before the energy standards got really harsh and while it suffers from red tinted blacks white and grey test patterns are perfectly uniform. Of course it's built like a tank.

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post #13551 of 13601 Old 02-08-2016, 03:05 PM
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My 2 year old P65ST60 has become a mess of constant image retention, horizontal banding, and a vertical pink stripe on the right side. All of it very subtle but still very much there. Luckily I paid the big bucks for the Geek Squad protection and since they came out twice to try to fix with no avail (replaced 2 boards, wanted to try a new screen but not avails), it seems Im getting a brand new TV...

The geeks just left my house and I am very sad to lose my ST60, I LOVE this TV! My only electronics, AV, hifi purchase ever that I didn't second guess my choice. It is perfection. Was perfection. For a couple years. Anyhow, I am curious if anyone else has had to deal with Best Buy/ Geek Squad full replacement? What should I expect from here? Will they let me pick something or how does this go down?

Assuming I have some say in my replacement, Im curious what TV to get, I havent looked at the TV market since I bought this, whats going to be comparable these days? 65 inch and over, glorious blacks, great image controls? Probably not plasma, definitely has to be available at Best Buy. Gonna assume my budget is about $2k for now...
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post #13552 of 13601 Old 02-08-2016, 08:00 PM
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\ I am very sad to lose my ST60.....Assuming I have some say in my replacement, Im curious what TV to get, I havent looked at the TV market since I bought this, whats going to be comparable these days? 65 inch and over, glorious blacks, great image controls? Probably not plasma, definitely has to be available at Best Buy. Gonna assume my budget is about $2k for now...
I replaced my 55ST60 with a Sony 55W800B and for an LCD it looks very natural and more "plasma-like" than the other brands of LCD i auditioned. I was surprised at how close to my ST60 i was able to get it to look (maybe 95% as good). And the current UHD models look even better.

I'd take a look at the Sony XBR-65X850C UHD TV, or even the XBR-65X810C which is said to have pretty much the same picture quality for less money according to owners (and at least one guy who has one of each in his home).

Sony 2015 XBR-55X850C / XBR-65X850C / XBR-75X850C owners club

.


...

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post #13553 of 13601 Old 02-09-2016, 09:13 AM
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Thanks Randy, Ill definitely put those on the short list to check out. Anyone know if theres anything new out there that has especially great off center viewing characteristics? My room has seats all around and I never noticed a difference anywhere with the ST60. Seems I might be giving that up too.
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post #13554 of 13601 Old 02-09-2016, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post
I replaced my 55ST60 with a Sony 55W800B and for an LCD it looks very natural and more "plasma-like" than the other brands of LCD i auditioned. I was surprised at how close to my ST60 i was able to get it to look (maybe 95% as good). And the current UHD models look even better.

I'd take a look at the Sony XBR-65X850C UHD TV, or even the XBR-65X810C which is said to have pretty much the same picture quality for less money according to owners (and at least one guy who has one of each in his home).

Sony 2015 XBR-55X850C / XBR-65X850C / XBR-75X850C owners club

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...
why did you replace your ST60?
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post #13555 of 13601 Old 02-10-2016, 07:46 AM
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why did you replace your ST60?
Funny story.

The 55ST60 was in my bright Man-Room that has big west-facing windows with a great view of the Malibu hills, and i always keep the blinds open. I hate being closed-in. In this room i rarely watch movies - i mainly watch News and Documentaries and Racing and Sports etc and felt that a good LCD would be a better fit for this room - and it turned out to be the better choice in there (punches through the ambient light better where the ST60 would start to get washed out). And ABL on my bright content was getting irritating, and i was getting tired of partially closing my blinds to mitigate the afternoon light ingress. The LCD does work better in there.

So my master plan was to move the 55" ST60 to the Den which we only use at nighttime where we watch prime-time programming and movies on Blu-Ray and Netflix. It replaced our 46" G10 in there and it was a big improvement in size and especially the black levels and the plan seemed like a win-win for both rooms. BUT - the little woman apparently doesn't like having a "HUGE TV" dominate "her" Den but she was a good sport and let it ride for a month in the hope of getting used to the bigger size, but that never happened. And the plan backfired even more because now she has an even bigger aversion to "Huge TVs" so instead of having me put the 46" G10 back in the Den, she wanted my trusty old 42" PZ700U in there which to her is "just right". And she already said when that 42PZ700 dies, she'll replace it with a 40" LCD.

We have a big living room with a big couch that can easily accommodate a 65" or larger TV on the opposing wall - but she doesn't want a TV in the living room at all so to me it's just a big gigantic hallway that connects the Kitchen to the Den and Bedrooms.

But at least i have my Man-Room
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post #13556 of 13601 Old 02-13-2016, 01:36 PM
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I wonder if anyone here is using 0 sharpness setting when watching 1080p content like blu ray... The stock setting sharpness 50 is almost unwatchable to me because it's too sharp and really brings up all the artifacts and flaws of the source. For (highly compressed) live tv broadcast I use 35 sharpness because 1080i content is inherently blurry resolution (1440x1080i)
I am using 0 sharpness setting this is the correct setting for the sharpness control on the ST60. You might want to change sharpness for lower quality more compressed sources but only to the point that no halos are intruduced in the source. I just leave it on 0 for all sources. I do not watch cable tv, I watch shows on the computer, netflix, etc.

Last edited by hungro; 02-13-2016 at 01:39 PM.
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post #13557 of 13601 Old 02-21-2016, 07:42 PM
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How can I reset the channels found through "Auto Program"? I recently moved and I'm still getting channels that show up from my last place. Yes I can change it so they don't show up but they are still in the "Manual Program" menu.
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post #13558 of 13601 Old 02-21-2016, 07:47 PM
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How can I reset the channels found through "Auto Program"? I recently moved and I'm still getting channels that show up from my last place. Yes I can change it so they don't show up but they are still in the "Manual Program" menu.
Just run the auto program again.
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post #13559 of 13601 Old 02-21-2016, 08:50 PM
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How can I reset the channels found through "Auto Program"? I recently moved and I'm still getting channels that show up from my last place. Yes I can change it so they don't show up but they are still in the "Manual Program" menu.
The best way i've found to clear out all the previous channels is to disconnect the RF Antenna cable from the TV, then run a scan for channels (it won't find any). This usually completely erases all the old or former or corrupted channels from the tuner's memory (since the tuner isn't getting a signal with the RF disconnected).

Once that is done, re-connect your RF Antenna cable and run another scan and the current valid channels will populate the tuner's memory.

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post #13560 of 13601 Old 02-22-2016, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post
The best way i've found to clear out all the previous channels is to disconnect the RF Antenna cable from the TV, then run a scan for channels (it won't find any). This usually completely erases all the old or former or corrupted channels from the tuner's memory (since the tuner isn't getting a signal with the RF disconnected).

Once that is done, re-connect your RF Antenna cable and run another scan and the current valid channels will populate the tuner's memory.

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Thank you for the response. I just tried it and it didn't work. I also tried it after switching the channels from Yes to No under Manual Program. Still didn't work.
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