Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 457 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13681 of 13834 Old 12-06-2016, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post
At the risk of asking a frequently asked question here... is there a post in this thread or elsewhere with a simple list of steps for rough calibration (perhaps using AVS HD 709 patterns)? I think when I first attempted this, I got lost in the details.
There's a master thread on it, and it also comes with instructions. The clipping patterns are the most useful. Use them to set Brightness and Contrast, but be aware that Contrast is mainly about maximum light output on these sets. Beyond that, set Color Temperature to Warm 2, Sharpness to 0, and Gamma to 2.4 or 2.6 for dark room, and that's about all you can do by eye.

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One of the problem of course is, which source should I use for displaying calibration patterns. My PC? or is burning to a BD mandatory? (I had no burner at the time but now I have one so I guess it would be the best option?)
Both. You should be able to get consistent results between them. I use Kodi and WMC on the PC, and I've burned it to AVCHD, copied it to Fire TV Stick and iTunes for use with my ATV4, etc.
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post #13682 of 13834 Old 12-07-2016, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by sawfish View Post
There's a master thread on it, and it also comes with instructions.
Yes, I found it in the meantime. Thanks.

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The clipping patterns are the most useful. Use them to set Brightness and Contrast, but be aware that Contrast is mainly about maximum light output on these sets. Beyond that, set Color Temperature to Warm 2, Sharpness to 0, and Gamma to 2.4 or 2.6 for dark room, and that's about all you can do by eye.
It's a start but it's really a good start. Didn't have time to burn the AVS HD 709 ISO but I tried to run it on my HTPC via Kodi. Thanks a lot for the quick pointers. A few comments on the process:
  • Sharpness and gamma, ok no big deal... But Warm 2 seems quite yellow to me. Is Warm 1 acceptable, for example in a semi-lit room or as a compromise in a room where the TV is used sometimes in the dark but sometimes in daylight?
  • It is clear that my set had its Brightness setting set way too high (and I think I had put Black Level on Dark to kind of compensate). Just lowering Brightness and cranking up Contrast made a huge difference in the overall picture.
  • That being said, I can't make the flashing white bars disappear by raising Contrast in the white clipping pattern. Should I set Contrast all the way up to 100 in that case? Or is there any reason to lower it or another criterion to adjust it?
  • I let the TV input's RGB Color Range setting to "Auto". But if I understand your recommendation, you'd use "Limited" and accept crushed blacks and white on desktop apps and PC games?
  • As for the general video card (nVidia in my case) output setting, if I understand correctly, you suggest using Full range so as to not squeeze the video range in a subset smaller than the actual Limited range, is that so?
  • And checking the Limited range in Kodi is the right choice then?

A last question perhaps... if the settings above are the ones you recommend, then video playback using Kodi will be fine, but desktop and PC games will have crushed blacks and whites. But since the video cards outputs Full range, I guess switching the TV input from Limited to Full range would be a "single-setting" workaround for optimal PC gaming experience in that case? If so, I guess I could create an Activity in my Harmony remote for PC gaming that would change the TV to Full range, and revert it back on activity end...

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post #13683 of 13834 Old 12-07-2016, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post
Sharpness and gamma, ok no big deal... But Warm 2 seems quite yellow to me. Is Warm 1 acceptable, for example in a semi-lit room or as a compromise in a room where the TV is used sometimes in the dark but sometimes in daylight?
Warm 2 should be closest to the D65 white point that is the target for calibration. D65 looks wrong to a lot of people, because they're used to a cooler color temperature.

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It is clear that my set had its Brightness setting set way too high (and I think I had put Black Level on Dark to kind of compensate). Just lowering Brightness and cranking up Contrast made a huge difference in the overall picture.

That being said, I can't make the flashing white bars disappear by raising Contrast in the white clipping pattern. Should I set Contrast all the way up to 100 in that case? Or is there any reason to lower it or another criterion to adjust it?
You'll never get rid of the white bars above 235 on this set. They don't hurt anything, and some are arguably worth keeping as explained in the Spears and Munsil articles I linked to. Setting Contrast to 100 maximizes light output (and audible buzzing), which you may not want to do. I use 67 on my 50ST60, which gives me about 38 fL on 2% windows, which is plenty for dark room viewing.


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I let the TV input's RGB Color Range setting to "Auto". But if I understand your recommendation, you'd use "Limited" and accept crushed blacks and white on desktop apps and PC games?
Right, but I don't game on my HTPC. I just use it for video. If I gamed or did anything that suffered from this intentional levels mismatch, I'd compromise and use Full Range. (The ST60 calls Limited "Standard" and Full Range "Non-Standard".)



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As for the general video card (nVidia in my case) output setting, if I understand correctly, you suggest using Full range so as to not squeeze the video range in a subset smaller than the actual Limited range, is that so?
Right, but that's for overall card output, and it's in the Display->Change Resolution area of the Nvidia Control Panel, option "Output Dynamic Range". This is different than the dynamic range option in the Video section, which applies only to hardware-accelerated video.



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And checking the Limited range in Kodi is the right choice then?
Yes.


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A last question perhaps... if the settings above are the ones you recommend, then video playback using Kodi will be fine, but desktop and PC games will have crushed blacks and whites. But since the video cards outputs Full range, I guess switching the TV input from Limited to Full range would be a "single-setting" workaround for optimal PC gaming experience in that case? If so, I guess I could create an Activity in my Harmony remote for PC gaming that would change the TV to Full range, and revert it back on activity end...
That could work, but you'd need to verify you're seeing full range colors on the desktop using static images with bars ranging from 0-255. If you're not, then the settings you made for video aren't working for the desktop. Also, there's no discrete code for this TV setting, so your activity would have to navigate the menu system, which might be somewhat unreliable.
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post #13684 of 13834 Old 12-09-2016, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by sawfish View Post
Warm 2 should be closest to the D65 white point that is the target for calibration. D65 looks wrong to a lot of people, because they're used to a cooler color temperature.
Indeed. But in a dark room I guess the colors look great.

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You'll never get rid of the white bars above 235 on this set. They don't hurt anything, and some are arguably worth keeping as explained in the Spears and Munsil articles I linked to. Setting Contrast to 100 maximizes light output (and audible buzzing), which you may not want to do.
Ok so basically a trade-off between output and buzzing, but otherwise no downside.

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Right, but I don't game on my HTPC. I just use it for video. If I gamed or did anything that suffered from this intentional levels mismatch, I'd compromise and use Full Range. (The ST60 calls Limited "Standard" and Full Range "Non-Standard".)
You'd accept washed-out darks and lights on videos? I for one think that I'll just try and switch the color range from Limited to Full before gaming and try no to forget to set it back to Standard afterwards.

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Right, but that's for overall card output
Understood. By the way, thanks for the details and the links, I think the mental image I have is now much better as to how Limited and Full range work.

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Also, there's no discrete code for this TV setting, so your activity would have to navigate the menu system, which might be somewhat unreliable.
Didn't think of that... so manual change will be best before gaming I guess.
Would be nice if Game Mode would switch the color range to Full automatically.

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post #13685 of 13834 Old 12-09-2016, 08:07 AM
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You'd accept washed-out darks and lights on videos?
No. The whole point is to have optimal settings for video that are also consistent with my BD player (which doesn't have a Full Range output option) and other devices. I'm not sure why you asked that in response to what I said, "Right, but I don't game on my HTPC. I just use it for video. If I gamed or did anything that suffered from this intentional levels mismatch, I'd compromise and use Full Range."

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Ok so basically a trade-off between output and buzzing, but otherwise no downside.
Also, the brighter the picture, the greater the IR.
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post #13686 of 13834 Old 12-09-2016, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by sawfish View Post
I'm not sure why you asked that in response to what I said
Sorry if that wasn't clear... You said as a compromise you'd use full range. I assumed that if you were gaming, and watching videos on an HTPC connected to the TV, you'd use the Full range setting (Nonstandard) on the TV. Which would result in washed out blacks and whites for videos right? Or perhaps I misunderstood that part and unchecking Limited Range in Kodi results in the videos being expanded to Full Range (while losing any BTB and WTW)?

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Also, the brighter the picture, the greater the IR.
Ah! Yes of course. I already noticed the set seemed more sensitive to image retention with the increased white level.

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post #13687 of 13834 Old 12-09-2016, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post
Sorry if that wasn't clear... You said as a compromise you'd use full range. I assumed that if you were gaming, and watching videos on an HTPC connected to the TV, you'd use the Full range setting (Nonstandard) on the TV. Which would result in washed out blacks and whites for videos right? Or perhaps I misunderstood that part and unchecking Limited Range in Kodi results in the videos being expanded to Full Range (while losing any BTB and WTW)?
Yes, you need to ensure the levels used for video match the levels on the TV. So you'd disable Kodi's Limited Range option when the TV is set to Full Range.
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post #13688 of 13834 Old 12-11-2016, 10:26 PM
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Thinking about getting my 50" ST60 professionally calibrated. Which picture setting is the best set as foundation before getting the set calibrated? [cinema] or [custom] with color set to warm 2 and all picture enhancements in custom mode turned off?
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post #13689 of 13834 Old 12-12-2016, 03:42 AM
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Just got some new hardware to hook to my 60ST60 using HDMI2 for the first time. Been years since I set up HDMI1. Is there a way to copy everything from 1 over to 2?

Sometimes, I see dead pixels...
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post #13690 of 13834 Old 12-12-2016, 03:51 PM
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Does ST60 use different (but same dimensions) power supply board for 50/55/60/65 inch models? I assume the 65 inch has more robust power supply... and if possible I would like to put the 65 inch model power supply and swap out the stock in my 50 inch model.
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post #13691 of 13834 Old 12-12-2016, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 34-hfx-83 View Post
Thinking about getting my 50" ST60 professionally calibrated. Which picture setting is the best set as foundation before getting the set calibrated? [cinema] or [custom] with color set to warm 2 and all picture enhancements in custom mode turned off?

The calibrator will do and determine all of that, but generally either Cinema or Custom is best to use with sharpness at zero and all enhancements, except possibly '1080p pixel direct', turned off.
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post #13692 of 13834 Old 12-13-2016, 04:27 AM
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If the tv is used with a PC you will definitely want pixel direct turned on. Otherwise scaling issues will drive you mad. I'm not sure why pixel direct on isn't the default. For gosh sakes, when sending a 1080p signal, of course I want the pixels to line up with the tv's physical pixels... This is the only way to ensure using exactly 100 % of the screen and pass a single pixel grid test. May not be needed if not using an HTPC.

Sometimes, I see dead pixels...
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post #13693 of 13834 Old 12-23-2016, 05:28 AM
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Just finished reading this whole thread.
Issue with calibrating Panasonic ST60 and skin tones

Looks like 50 inch ST60 is really hard to tame using traditional calibration methods (for a plasma).

Now how about 3D LUT calibration? Anyone here tried it? Can the "skin tone" issue in my 50 inch ST60 be tamed with this method?

I'm tempted to buy this hardware and call a professional calibrator
https://displaycalibrationtools.com/...ion-processor/
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post #13694 of 13834 Old 12-23-2016, 12:29 PM
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Is it normal for the P65ST60 to have these green pixels in it when looking at it close? If this not the norm, how can I correct this? These screen shots were taking while my xbox one S was updating for the first time.

http://imgur.com/fDrBqxx

http://imgur.com/8GzebDR
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post #13695 of 13834 Old 12-23-2016, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by wargod View Post
Is it normal for the P65ST60 to have these green pixels in it when looking at it close? If this not the norm, how can I correct this? These screen shots were taking while my xbox one S was updating for the first time.

http://imgur.com/fDrBqxx

http://imgur.com/8GzebDR
Exactly how close are you when you see them?? If it's a foot or two away that's kinda normal on some sorces/content. You should not be able to see it from say 5 feet or more.


.

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post #13696 of 13834 Old 12-23-2016, 04:28 PM
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Exactly how close are you when you see them?? If it's a foot or two away that's kinda normal on some sorces/content. You should not be able to see it from say 5 feet or more.


.
I see them when a foot away, not from 5 feet way. Thanks for confirming that it is normal.
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post #13697 of 13834 Old 12-24-2016, 07:29 AM
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If you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for the used TC-P65ST60?
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post #13698 of 13834 Old 12-26-2016, 05:41 PM
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Has anyone figured a workaround for connecting a PC to TC-PXXST50? Manual says no way.

A couple of years ago, I asked if anyone had figured it out yet for my TC-P65ST50.

Looked into connecting PC to Bluray player but that looks complicated.

Just want to show some slides direct from the PC on the TV.

Someone suggested getting a video card for the PC with a HDMI output.

Last edited by CRTforever; 12-26-2016 at 05:54 PM.
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post #13699 of 13834 Old 12-27-2016, 07:06 AM
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Has anyone figured a workaround for connecting a PC to TC-PXXST50? . . . . . Someone suggested getting a video card for the PC with a HDMI output.
The workaround is to install an HDMI video card into that creaky old PC

That's what i did some years ago. Cheap and easy. And if you do that, make sure the card is HTCP-compliant or the TV won't display the video signal.


...............

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post #13700 of 13834 Old 12-27-2016, 09:24 AM
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Thanks for the reply.

Our new PCs are not old and cranky -- New Dell XPS13's and they have no HDMI outputs anyway.

I'm not about to crack the cases just for this fool's errand. We do have an old Acer Aspire one with a VGI output, maybe there's some potential with installing a video card on that one.
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post #13701 of 13834 Old 12-27-2016, 09:48 AM
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Thanks for the reply.

Our new PCs are not old and cranky -- New Dell XPS13's and they have no HDMI outputs anyway.

I'm not about to crack the cases just for this fool's errand. We do have an old Acer Aspire one with a VGI output, maybe there's some potential with installing a video card on that one.
I use the DV adapter (called "thunderbolt" p/n VK904) with my XPS13 to the TV HDMI in. You can find it on their website.
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post #13702 of 13834 Old 12-31-2016, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wargod View Post
Is it normal for the P65ST60 to have these green pixels in it when looking at it close? If this not the norm, how can I correct this? These screen shots were taking while my xbox one S was updating for the first time.

http://imgur.com/fDrBqxx

http://imgur.com/8GzebDR
I get green pixels too, but I can actually see them from 10 feet away. It's usually there when it's first turn on and trying warm up. I think those are the sub pixels from the screenshots?
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post #13703 of 13834 Old 01-01-2017, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wargod View Post
Is it normal for the P65ST60 to have these green pixels in it when looking at it close? If this not the norm, how can I correct this? These screen shots were taking while my xbox one S was updating for the first time.

http://imgur.com/fDrBqxx

http://imgur.com/8GzebDR

Yes, it's normal except that it looks like you don't have the black level set right. The 'brighness' setting adjusts the black level. If you lower the brightness, you'll likely see much of those green pixels disappear.
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post #13704 of 13834 Old 01-05-2017, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wargod View Post
Is it normal for the P65ST60 to have these green pixels in it when looking at it close? If this not the norm, how can I correct this? These screen shots were taking while my xbox one S was updating for the first time.

http://imgur.com/fDrBqxx

http://imgur.com/8GzebDR
That just looks like your brightness is turned up too high.
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post #13705 of 13834 Old 01-08-2017, 11:47 AM
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Power usage by screen question

I know plasmas use a LOT of juice when compared with LCD/LED.

Does the power usage drop significantly when it goes to blank screen. We have an older Panny plasma w. a perfect pic that we have just hooked thru a sound system. When playing music stations like Pandora, the screen will come on for 30 seconds w. each change of song, then go dark (no burn-in).

I am asking here because this is the only Panny site I "belong" to.
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post #13706 of 13834 Old 01-08-2017, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by snidely View Post
I know plasmas use a LOT of juice when compared with LCD/LED.

Does the power usage drop significantly when it goes to blank screen. We have an older Panny plasma w. a perfect pic that we have just hooked thru a sound system. When playing music stations like Pandora, the screen will come on for 30 seconds w. each change of song, then go dark (no burn-in).

I am asking here because this is the only Panny site I "belong" to.
Plasma power consumption is directly tied to contrast level so yes, it will use far less with a black screen than with video. A white screen will use the most power.
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post #13707 of 13834 Old 01-08-2017, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by samijubal View Post
Plasma power consumption is directly tied to contrast level so yes, it will use far less with a black screen than with video. A white screen will use the most power.
Thanks.
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post #13708 of 13834 Old 01-11-2017, 12:41 AM
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Hi!

Just bought a Panasonic ST60 in mint condition, however now I have noticed a vertical band on the right from the middle of the set. Didint bother to check for this before as I didnt think plasma suffered from vertical banding. I guess I have to live with it? Also there is line bleed, is that normal?


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post #13709 of 13834 Old 01-11-2017, 07:26 AM
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Hi!

Just bought a Panasonic ST60 in mint condition, however now I have noticed a vertical band on the right from the middle of the set. Didint bother to check for this before as I didnt think plasma suffered from vertical banding. I guess I have to live with it? Also there is line bleed, is that normal?


Br J
No banding on my 50ST60. Line bleed is totally normal, and so is area bleed - the bleeding can be larger than a line. Most of the time, it isn't present/noticeable.
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post #13710 of 13834 Old 01-11-2017, 07:33 AM
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There were several reports of defective sets with vertical bands an inch or two wide usually somewhere on the right half of the set. I understand this was a plasma panel defect. I hope it's not what you are seeing.

Is it visible when watching content?

Could also be image retention depending on what the set was used for previously . see if it gets better with use.

Sometimes, I see dead pixels...
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