Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 457 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #13681 of 13685 Unread 12-07-2016, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by sawfish View Post
There's a master thread on it, and it also comes with instructions.
Yes, I found it in the meantime. Thanks.

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The clipping patterns are the most useful. Use them to set Brightness and Contrast, but be aware that Contrast is mainly about maximum light output on these sets. Beyond that, set Color Temperature to Warm 2, Sharpness to 0, and Gamma to 2.4 or 2.6 for dark room, and that's about all you can do by eye.
It's a start but it's really a good start. Didn't have time to burn the AVS HD 709 ISO but I tried to run it on my HTPC via Kodi. Thanks a lot for the quick pointers. A few comments on the process:
  • Sharpness and gamma, ok no big deal... But Warm 2 seems quite yellow to me. Is Warm 1 acceptable, for example in a semi-lit room or as a compromise in a room where the TV is used sometimes in the dark but sometimes in daylight?
  • It is clear that my set had its Brightness setting set way too high (and I think I had put Black Level on Dark to kind of compensate). Just lowering Brightness and cranking up Contrast made a huge difference in the overall picture.
  • That being said, I can't make the flashing white bars disappear by raising Contrast in the white clipping pattern. Should I set Contrast all the way up to 100 in that case? Or is there any reason to lower it or another criterion to adjust it?
  • I let the TV input's RGB Color Range setting to "Auto". But if I understand your recommendation, you'd use "Limited" and accept crushed blacks and white on desktop apps and PC games?
  • As for the general video card (nVidia in my case) output setting, if I understand correctly, you suggest using Full range so as to not squeeze the video range in a subset smaller than the actual Limited range, is that so?
  • And checking the Limited range in Kodi is the right choice then?

A last question perhaps... if the settings above are the ones you recommend, then video playback using Kodi will be fine, but desktop and PC games will have crushed blacks and whites. But since the video cards outputs Full range, I guess switching the TV input from Limited to Full range would be a "single-setting" workaround for optimal PC gaming experience in that case? If so, I guess I could create an Activity in my Harmony remote for PC gaming that would change the TV to Full range, and revert it back on activity end...

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post #13682 of 13685 Unread 12-07-2016, 09:39 PM
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Sharpness and gamma, ok no big deal... But Warm 2 seems quite yellow to me. Is Warm 1 acceptable, for example in a semi-lit room or as a compromise in a room where the TV is used sometimes in the dark but sometimes in daylight?
Warm 2 should be closest to the D65 white point that is the target for calibration. D65 looks wrong to a lot of people, because they're used to a cooler color temperature.

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It is clear that my set had its Brightness setting set way too high (and I think I had put Black Level on Dark to kind of compensate). Just lowering Brightness and cranking up Contrast made a huge difference in the overall picture.

That being said, I can't make the flashing white bars disappear by raising Contrast in the white clipping pattern. Should I set Contrast all the way up to 100 in that case? Or is there any reason to lower it or another criterion to adjust it?
You'll never get rid of the white bars above 235 on this set. They don't hurt anything, and some are arguably worth keeping as explained in the Spears and Munsil articles I linked to. Setting Contrast to 100 maximizes light output (and audible buzzing), which you may not want to do. I use 67 on my 50ST60, which gives me about 38 fL on 2% windows, which is plenty for dark room viewing.


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I let the TV input's RGB Color Range setting to "Auto". But if I understand your recommendation, you'd use "Limited" and accept crushed blacks and white on desktop apps and PC games?
Right, but I don't game on my HTPC. I just use it for video. If I gamed or did anything that suffered from this intentional levels mismatch, I'd compromise and use Full Range. (The ST60 calls Limited "Standard" and Full Range "Non-Standard".)



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As for the general video card (nVidia in my case) output setting, if I understand correctly, you suggest using Full range so as to not squeeze the video range in a subset smaller than the actual Limited range, is that so?
Right, but that's for overall card output, and it's in the Display->Change Resolution area of the Nvidia Control Panel, option "Output Dynamic Range". This is different than the dynamic range option in the Video section, which applies only to hardware-accelerated video.



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And checking the Limited range in Kodi is the right choice then?
Yes.


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A last question perhaps... if the settings above are the ones you recommend, then video playback using Kodi will be fine, but desktop and PC games will have crushed blacks and whites. But since the video cards outputs Full range, I guess switching the TV input from Limited to Full range would be a "single-setting" workaround for optimal PC gaming experience in that case? If so, I guess I could create an Activity in my Harmony remote for PC gaming that would change the TV to Full range, and revert it back on activity end...
That could work, but you'd need to verify you're seeing full range colors on the desktop using static images with bars ranging from 0-255. If you're not, then the settings you made for video aren't working for the desktop. Also, there's no discrete code for this TV setting, so your activity would have to navigate the menu system, which might be somewhat unreliable.
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post #13683 of 13685 Unread Today, 07:07 AM
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Warm 2 should be closest to the D65 white point that is the target for calibration. D65 looks wrong to a lot of people, because they're used to a cooler color temperature.
Indeed. But in a dark room I guess the colors look great.

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You'll never get rid of the white bars above 235 on this set. They don't hurt anything, and some are arguably worth keeping as explained in the Spears and Munsil articles I linked to. Setting Contrast to 100 maximizes light output (and audible buzzing), which you may not want to do.
Ok so basically a trade-off between output and buzzing, but otherwise no downside.

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Right, but I don't game on my HTPC. I just use it for video. If I gamed or did anything that suffered from this intentional levels mismatch, I'd compromise and use Full Range. (The ST60 calls Limited "Standard" and Full Range "Non-Standard".)
You'd accept washed-out darks and lights on videos? I for one think that I'll just try and switch the color range from Limited to Full before gaming and try no to forget to set it back to Standard afterwards.

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Right, but that's for overall card output
Understood. By the way, thanks for the details and the links, I think the mental image I have is now much better as to how Limited and Full range work.

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Also, there's no discrete code for this TV setting, so your activity would have to navigate the menu system, which might be somewhat unreliable.
Didn't think of that... so manual change will be best before gaming I guess.
Would be nice if Game Mode would switch the color range to Full automatically.

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post #13684 of 13685 Unread Today, 09:07 AM
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You'd accept washed-out darks and lights on videos?
No. The whole point is to have optimal settings for video that are also consistent with my BD player (which doesn't have a Full Range output option) and other devices. I'm not sure why you asked that in response to what I said, "Right, but I don't game on my HTPC. I just use it for video. If I gamed or did anything that suffered from this intentional levels mismatch, I'd compromise and use Full Range."

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Ok so basically a trade-off between output and buzzing, but otherwise no downside.
Also, the brighter the picture, the greater the IR.
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post #13685 of 13685 Unread Today, 09:22 AM
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I'm not sure why you asked that in response to what I said
Sorry if that wasn't clear... You said as a compromise you'd use full range. I assumed that if you were gaming, and watching videos on an HTPC connected to the TV, you'd use the Full range setting (Nonstandard) on the TV. Which would result in washed out blacks and whites for videos right? Or perhaps I misunderstood that part and unchecking Limited Range in Kodi results in the videos being expanded to Full Range (while losing any BTB and WTW)?

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Also, the brighter the picture, the greater the IR.
Ah! Yes of course. I already noticed the set seemed more sensitive to image retention with the increased white level.

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