Official Panasonic TC-PxxST60 Series thread - Page 82 - AVS Forum
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post #2431 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

Judging from one 50" S60 and two ST60s, it's perfectly normal for it to be present and easily heard from 10 feet in a quiet room with CATS disabled. And it's not just white slides. It's any relatively high APL scene. I hear it over dialog and even soft background music in Family Guy and other animated shows, and I can often hear it during the news. These sets were manufactured in Jan-2013 (S60) and Feb and Mar 2013 (ST60s).

It is not normal to be able to hear any Plasma TV buzzing from a normal viewing distance, especially 10 feet away over dialogue, so the ones you heard were abnormally loud and surely are defective. My GT50 is silent at one foot away when displaying the brightest slides and i can only hear a slight buzz when i put my face against the screen or behind the rear. I've heard probably a few dozen Panasonic Plasmas over the years and only a few buzzed excessively, and they were ultimately repaired and became quiet. My old PX50U has recently started to buzz in our small den when it had been perfectly quiet for the past 8 years of daily use.

I don't see why some folks think it's perfectly normal to hear buzzing on any TV at a normal viewing distance, because that is certainly not how companies intend their TVs to operate. Tons of people here report they can only hear buzzing when up very close or only with their head behind the TV, and lots of people who got "buzzers" had them repaired successfully, despite being led to believe that loud buzzing is "normal".

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post #2432 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 03gmarq View Post

I'm new to the site. Just got my 60ST60 and love it so far. One question I had.. How do i shut the tv speakers off so I can use my sound bar exclusively? Played with all the sound settings and cant find it
For the cost, there is no competition.........
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post #2433 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 08:11 PM
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Thanks for sharing! I put these in tonight and am thoroughly impressed--agreed on the depth--looks great! If you do end up changing your settings on the "low" panel brightness, I'd very much appreciate a share. Thanks again!

Also, have you found some audio settings that work well fro you (w/o using the home theater)?


Quote:
Originally Posted by cadett View Post

Here are the settings a arrived at for dim lit room on my 60"ST60.
Software: Calamn 4
Meter: Eye One Pro Retail

Picture Mode: Custom
Contrast: 87
Brightness: +1
Color: 50
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0
Color Temp: Warm2
Vivid Color: Off
C.A.T.S: Off
Video NR: Off
MPEG NR: Off
Motion Smoother: Off


Pro Settings
Panel Brightness: Mid
AGC: 0
Black Extension: 0
Color Gamut: Normal

W/B Detail Adjustment
W/B High R: 0
W/B High G: 0
W/B High B: -6
W/B Low R: 0
W/B Low G: 0
W/B Low B: 0

(W/B) More Detail Adjustment
10 W/B R: -8
10 W/B G: 0
10 W/B B: 4

20 W/B R: 21
20 W/B G: 0
20 W/B B: 0

30 W/B R: 19
30 W/B G: 0
30 W/B B: 3

40 W/B R: 10
40 W/B G: 0
40 W/B B: -3

50 W/B R: 9
50 W/B G: 0
50 W/B B: -4

60 W/B R: 5
60 W/B G: 0
60 W/B B: 0

70 W/B R: 0
70 W/B G: 0
70 W/B B: -2

80 W/B R: -2
80 W/B G: 0
80 W/B B: -1

90 W/B R: -1
90 W/B G: 0
90 W/B B: 4

100 W/B R: -6
100 W/B G: 0
100 W/B B: 8

Color Detail Adjustment
R-Hue: -4
R-Sat: -9
R-Lum: -3

G-Hue: 2
G-Sat: -50
G-Lum: -2

B-Hue: -1
B-Sat: -15
B-Lum: -6


Gamma Detail Adjustment
Gamma: 2.4

(Gamma) More Detail Adjustment
10 Gain: -16
20 Gain: -5
30 Gain: -7
40 Gain: -3
50 Gain: -2
60 Gain: -3
70 Gain: -2
80 Gain: -1
90 Gain: -1
100 Gain: 0

Advance Picture
3:2 PullDown: Auto

HDMI Content Type
***Leave settings in this menu at their default***

HDMI/DVI RGB Range
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post #2434 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

Judging from one 50" S60 and two ST60s, it's perfectly normal for it to be present and easily heard from 10 feet in a quiet room with CATS disabled. And it's not just white slides. It's any relatively high APL scene. I hear it over dialog and even soft background music in Family Guy and other animated shows, and I can often hear it during the news. These sets were manufactured in Jan-2013 (S60) and Feb and Mar 2013 (ST60s).

It is not normal to be able to hear any Plasma TV buzzing from a normal viewing distance, especially 10 feet away over dialogue, so the ones you heard were abnormally loud and surely are defective. My GT50 is silent at one foot away when displaying the brightest slides and i can only hear a slight buzz when i put my face against the screen or behind the rear. I've heard probably a few dozen Panasonic Plasmas over the years and only a few buzzed excessively, and they were ultimately repaired and became quiet. My old PX50U has recently started to buzz in our small den when it had been perfectly quiet for the past 8 years of daily use.

I don't see why some folks think it's perfectly normal to hear buzzing on any TV at a normal viewing distance, because that is certainly not how companies intend their TVs to operate. Tons of people here report they can only hear buzzing when up very close or only with their head behind the TV, and lots of people who got "buzzers" had them repaired successfully, despite being led to believe that loud buzzing is "normal".

So you say. (Again and again and again. biggrin.gif)

There is no shortage of people who claim all plasmas buzz. After experiencing the similar buzzes of an S60 and two ST60s manufactured in three different months, I am in that camp now. If you read the reviews that were posted here of the ST60 and Samsung F8500, the reviewer stated that the ST60 could be heard from 6' and the F8500 from 8-9', IIRC, and that would be in the test environment, which I think was Cleveland Plasma, which I'd bet is a heckuva lot noisier than my home. So, it seems to me he got typical samples consistent with the three Panasonics I've had in my home in the last few weeks.

To put this in perspective, when I first posted on this a few weeks ago, I said I wouldn't be surprised if the plasma buzz situation mirrored my experience with refrigerators. There is no shortage of people who claim their recent model refrigerators are silent, the very same models I can hear literally 50 feet away around a corner, and I'm talking multiple units, just like with the plasma TVs. I don't think I'm super unlucky and just getting one bad unit after another. Instead, I believe the differences lies in our abilities to assess noise levels. Possible reasons include hearing differences, high ambient noise levels, listening while there are distractions like outside noise, children playing, etc, or just not being particularly observant of one's environment. Or maybe I am just super unlucky... rolleyes.gif
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post #2435 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 08:38 PM
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Nah. More like super anal. I've heard buzz, but that's if I'm listening to the tv on mute. And when is that going to be ? 5% of the time maybe? Any other time the audio would drown it out at 25% comfortable listening level
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post #2436 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

So you say. (Again and again and again. biggrin.gif)

There is no shortage of people who claim all plasmas buzz. After experiencing the similar buzzes of an S60 and two ST60s manufactured in three different months, I am in that camp now. If you read the reviews that were posted here of the ST60 and Samsung F8500, the reviewer stated that the ST60 could be heard from 6' and the F8500 from 8-9', IIRC, and that would be in the test environment, which I think was Cleveland Plasma, which I'd bet is a heckuva lot noisier than my home. So, it seems to me he got typical samples consistent with the three Panasonics I've had in my home in the last few weeks.

To put this in perspective, when I first posted on this a few weeks ago, I said I wouldn't be surprised if the plasma buzz situation mirrored my experience with refrigerators. There is no shortage of people who claim their recent model refrigerators are silent, the very same models I can hear literally 50 feet away around a corner, and I'm talking multiple units, just like with the plasma TVs. I don't think I'm super unlucky and just getting one bad unit after another. Instead, I believe the differences lies in our abilities to assess noise levels. Possible reasons include hearing differences, high ambient noise levels, listening while there are distractions like outside noise, children playing, etc, or just not being particularly observant of one's environment. Or maybe I am just super unlucky... rolleyes.gif

You might be unlucky I'm on my 3rd panny in 3 months the latest the 60st60 was broken in in a spare room with no noise I.e. no tv no fridge no noisy light bulbs dead silent. And like the other 2 it was in audible at a foot away. I also have had my hearing checked 5 of the last 7 yrs and its great. You would have to be bionic to hear any of the sets I had at 8ft
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post #2437 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 09:09 PM
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Okay, so I've gotten the green light from the boss to go ahead with a new TV purchase (woo hoo!). Here are my questions:

1. The local store here (Video Only) has the 65" VT60 in stock and is willing to sell it for less than I've seen other places selling it for. It's a heck of a price, but other than bells and whistles, is is giving me a lot more than the ST60? I'm most concerned about image quality - is the quality on the VT60 better than the already amazing ST60? I'm willing to pay a premium for it, but only if it's worth the cost.

2. We sit ~10 ft. away from our current 58" plasma. I was thinking about going with a 65" because it takes up about the same real estate on the wall, but I got to thinking that maybe 65" was too big? I read someone's comment here that said they wouldn't go bigger than 60" on a plasma unless they were sitting really far away. Should I save myself a grip of money and just got with a 60" ST60? I've read over and over that it's a big-time bargain for the quality.

3. If I go with the VT60, do the speakers come pre-attached? I know it sounds funny, but I didn't like the way they stuck out from the TV. If I'm getting a TV of that quality, I'm not going to be using the built in speakers :-) Not a show stopper if the consensus is "go with the VT60" but something I wanted to check in about.

Thanks in advance.
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post #2438 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evil_mike View Post

Okay, so I've gotten the green light from the boss to go ahead with a new TV purchase (woo hoo!). Here are my questions:

1. The local store here (Video Only) has the 65" VT60 in stock and is willing to sell it for less than I've seen other places selling it for. It's a heck of a price, but other than bells and whistles, is is giving me a lot more than the ST60? I'm most concerned about image quality - is the quality on the VT60 better than the already amazing ST60? I'm willing to pay a premium for it, but only if it's worth the cost.

2. We sit ~10 ft. away from our current 58" plasma. I was thinking about going with a 65" because it takes up about the same real estate on the wall, but I got to thinking that maybe 65" was too big? I read someone's comment here that said they wouldn't go bigger than 60" on a plasma unless they were sitting really far away. Should I save myself a grip of money and just got with a 60" ST60? I've read over and over that it's a big-time bargain for the quality.

3. If I go with the VT60, do the speakers come pre-attached? I know it sounds funny, but I didn't like the way they stuck out from the TV. If I'm getting a TV of that quality, I'm not going to be using the built in speakers :-) Not a show stopper if the consensus is "go with the VT60" but something I wanted to check in about.

Thanks in advance.

If you have the $$ for it definitely get the VT ! It will be a jump from the ST, it has dual core hexa processing etc.. The ZT might not be that much of a leap from the VT, but I think the VT is definitely a nice step up from the ST and worth the investment into..

I sit 9 feet away, 65ST60, I love it ! 😎

I don't think you can detach the speakers on the VT.

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post #2439 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evil_mike View Post

2. We sit ~10 ft. away from our current 58" plasma. I was thinking about going with a 65" because it takes up about the same real estate on the wall, but I got to thinking that maybe 65" was too big? I read someone's comment here that said they wouldn't go bigger than 60" on a plasma unless they were sitting really far away. Should I save myself a grip of money and just got with a 60" ST60? I've read over and over that it's a big-time bargain for the quality.

FWIW, I think virtually any viewing distance recommendations/guides that you find are going to recommend less than 10' for a 65". IMO, 8.5' or less would be more optimal. I would definitely prefer a 65" to a 60" at 10'.
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post #2440 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evil_mike View Post

Okay, so I've gotten the green light from the boss to go ahead with a new TV purchase (woo hoo!). Here are my questions:

1. The local store here (Video Only) has the 65" VT60 in stock and is willing to sell it for less than I've seen other places selling it for. It's a heck of a price, but other than bells and whistles, is is giving me a lot more than the ST60? I'm most concerned about image quality - is the quality on the VT60 better than the already amazing ST60? I'm willing to pay a premium for it, but only if it's worth the cost.

2. We sit ~10 ft. away from our current 58" plasma. I was thinking about going with a 65" because it takes up about the same real estate on the wall, but I got to thinking that maybe 65" was too big? I read someone's comment here that said they wouldn't go bigger than 60" on a plasma unless they were sitting really far away. Should I save myself a grip of money and just got with a 60" ST60? I've read over and over that it's a big-time bargain for the quality.

3. If I go with the VT60, do the speakers come pre-attached? I know it sounds funny, but I didn't like the way they stuck out from the TV. If I'm getting a TV of that quality, I'm not going to be using the built in speakers :-) Not a show stopper if the consensus is "go with the VT60" but something I wanted to check in about.

Thanks in advance.
Dang, that IS a killer price on the VT60. You have a tough decision on your hands. The speakers on the VT60 are permanently attached, and I agree, it's probably the biggest "turn off" with the VT60. Adds thickness to the bezel, and will not even be used by most owners. As far as picture quality, there is no doubt the VT60 is superior to the ST60.... But not by leaps and bounds. The picture quality of the ST60 is shaping up to be one of the best of 2013, and you can't beat the value. With the VT60, you definitely are paying for the bells and whistles, and the single sheet of glad design. As far as size, I think it would be had to argue that with a TV (in most situations), the bigger the screen, the better. Just out of curiousity, have you considered the 65" ST60? Judging by the 65" VT60 deal they offered, maybe they can offer you a price of $2000 or so for the 65" ST60?....
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post #2441 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evil_mike View Post

Okay, so I've gotten the green light from the boss to go ahead with a new TV purchase (woo hoo!). Here are my questions:

1. The local store here (Video Only) has the 65" VT60 in stock and is willing to sell it for less than I've seen other places selling it for. It's a heck of a price, but other than bells and whistles, is is giving me a lot more than the ST60? I'm most concerned about image quality - is the quality on the VT60 better than the already amazing ST60? I'm willing to pay a premium for it, but only if it's worth the cost.

2. We sit ~10 ft. away from our current 58" plasma. I was thinking about going with a 65" because it takes up about the same real estate on the wall, but I got to thinking that maybe 65" was too big? I read someone's comment here that said they wouldn't go bigger than 60" on a plasma unless they were sitting really far away. Should I save myself a grip of money and just got with a 60" ST60? I've read over and over that it's a big-time bargain for the quality.

3. If I go with the VT60, do the speakers come pre-attached? I know it sounds funny, but I didn't like the way they stuck out from the TV. If I'm getting a TV of that quality, I'm not going to be using the built in speakers :-) Not a show stopper if the consensus is "go with the VT60" but something I wanted to check in about.

Thanks in advance.
Sounds like a good deal for a 65" VT. If you got it in the budget then buy it, the 65" St is about 600 less so not a big difference in price. How did you get the price so low on the VT?

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post #2442 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 09:51 PM
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I asked if they had a 65" ST and they said "no, but we have the VT and we'll sell it to you for X." :-)
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post #2443 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 09:55 PM
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Here's the issue I'm having that's been irritating me. Does anyone else notice this in skin tones?



Notice how his lower right side is yellowish/greenish... Really irritating, and I'm not sure whether to exchange or not
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post #2444 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHD View Post

... the single sheet of glass design...

What exactly do they mean by that for the VT and ZT? It's not like you look at your ST and see two sheets of glass to make one panel!

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post #2445 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 10:24 PM
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Anyone has some nice image settings for 3D?

Image is much more dark when going 3d so i wonder if anyone got some settings for 3d.
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post #2446 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHD View Post

... the single sheet of glass design...
What exactly do they mean by that for the VT and ZT? It's not like you look at your ST and see two sheets of glass to make one panel!

I believe he is talking about the thinness of the bezel that surrounds the glass?

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post #2447 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fester99 View Post

I believe he is talking about the thinness of the bezel that surrounds the glass?

I think what it means is that the outer glass panel stretches all the way across to the end of the bezel, covering the bezel, kind of like how cell phones are. The ST60 has the bezel raises above the glass as if the glass were set into it.
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post #2448 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 11:21 PM
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So I bought the 55st60 but my CRV is not big enough to carry the TV standing up. So I risk it and have the TV lay flat for a few km. The bestbuy guys said it's fine but don't turn the TV on right away. Is their advice valid?
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post #2449 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
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I believe he is talking about the thinness of the bezel that surrounds the glass?

Easier way to say it is that it has edge to edge glass design. Looks really nice IMO.

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post #2450 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 11:46 PM
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is the flashlight test really necessary. I mean ive had my tv for about a week and 3 days and the screen looks fine on and off. Will the tv end up cracking over time if it has a small hairline crack. I got the BBY 2yr warranty since it covers screen burn in but i might end up getting square trade warranty also so it will cover physical damage. kinda like double wrapping it just to be Xtra safe haha
That's what small cracks in glass do. They grow up and become big cracks.

You probably don't have any tiny cracks, but now is the best time you will ever have to find out. If it helps, I only know of one person who let a small crack go, then it grew, and he had a fight on his hands. It's better for you to report a tiny crack now, if there is one, than for you to report a big one weeks from now.

Remember that there is constant expansion (warm glass) and contraction (cold glass) going on with every overnight power cycle.
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post #2451 of 12815 Old 04-23-2013, 11:49 PM
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http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1366730214

Another high review! Interesting they say they input lag was a non issue once put in game mode.
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post #2452 of 12815 Old 04-24-2013, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fanbanlo View Post

So I bought the 55st60 but my CRV is not big enough to carry the TV standing up. So I risk it and have the TV lay flat for a few km. The bestbuy guys said it's fine but don't turn the TV on right away. Is their advice valid?
I have the same predicament. I'm thinking I could lay it diagonally in my Mazda wagon to relieve some stress from otherwise laying it flat. I could fashion something in plywood easy enough to support it on a 45° angle. Any thoughts? Also, what's the reason for not turning it on right away?
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post #2453 of 12815 Old 04-24-2013, 12:09 AM
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I have the same predicament. I'm thinking I could lay it diagonally in my Mazda wagon to relieve some stress from otherwise laying it flat. I could fashion something in plywood easy enough to support it on a 45° angle. Any thoughts? Also, what's the reason for not turning it on right away?

As long as it's supported (and not fully horiztonal) you'll probably be ok - the concern is that the boxes are not reinforced to support the face of the tv in a horizontal orientation. Therefore, damage to the glass is more likely when transported that way.
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post #2454 of 12815 Old 04-24-2013, 12:10 AM
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So I bought the 55st60 but my CRV is not big enough to carry the TV standing up. So I risk it and have the TV lay flat for a few km. The bestbuy guys said it's fine but don't turn the TV on right away. Is their advice valid?

Wrong on both counts. The TV should never be transported flat, as the weight of the glass could cause the screen to break. And I guarantee you if you go back to Best Buy with a broken screen from that and point to those same guys they'll backtrack like hell...Not to say that it CAN'T be done though. People have transported their sets home like that before without issue. It just a risk that you would have to accept. And no reason why you couldn't turn it on right away as far as I know, except maybe really cold weather or something.
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Originally Posted by Inputlag View Post

I have the same predicament. I'm thinking I could lay it diagonally in my Mazda wagon to relieve some stress from otherwise laying it flat. I could fashion something in plywood easy enough to support it on a 45° angle. Any thoughts? Also, what's the reason for not turning it on right away?

We got a 60 inch Samsung home to my in-laws house diagonally with myself in the back bracing it from all the bumps. Honestly not sure how much this lowers the risk factor.

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post #2455 of 12815 Old 04-24-2013, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by fanbanlo View Post

So I bought the 55st60 but my CRV is not big enough to carry the TV standing up. So I risk it and have the TV lay flat for a few km. The bestbuy guys said it's fine but don't turn the TV on right away. Is their advice valid?
No it's not alright if you crack the glass. They could invalidate the warranty if you broke the set on the way home. People have done it and been lucky -- some have been unlucky. Personally I like a sure thing better than a gamble.

Not turning on the set right away is to protect the set from moister caused by condensation when the outside temperature is much colder than the room that the TV is going into. If it's still cold in your area, waiting is a good idea too. It' another way to avoid gambling. wink.gif
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post #2456 of 12815 Old 04-24-2013, 12:15 AM
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Here's the issue I'm having that's been irritating me. Does anyone else notice this in skin tones?



Notice how his lower right side is yellowish/greenish... Really irritating, and I'm not sure whether to exchange or not
It could be a calibration issue. Are you using anyone's settings?
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post #2457 of 12815 Old 04-24-2013, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by AdamHD View Post

... the single sheet of glass design...

What exactly do they mean by that for the VT and ZT? It's not like you look at your ST and see two sheets of glass to make one panel!
If you look carefully from a sharp angle, it's possible to see an offset image in the second sheet of glass. The two sheets of glass are separated by a small amount of space. The only viewers who might have a problem with double glass displays would be those sitting to one side or the other. All the Pioneer Kuro displays had single glass panels. Panasonic took it a step further by extending the glass over the bezel for a better appearance.
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post #2458 of 12815 Old 04-24-2013, 12:50 AM
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It could be a calibration issue. Are you using anyone's settings?

I've tried them all; none of them eliminate it as they don't lower the W/B G Low setting
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post #2459 of 12815 Old 04-24-2013, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

It could be a calibration issue. Are you using anyone's settings?

I've tried them all; none of them eliminate it as they don't lower the W/B G Low setting
By all, does that include D-Nice's settings?
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post #2460 of 12815 Old 04-24-2013, 02:16 AM
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ST60 is amazing! Super happy with the purchase.

Victoria Secret fashion show 2013 recorded on the PVR has never looked that good! The bright neon light on inky black, lots of depth not seen in my last Samsung low-end plasma. Setting motion smoother to Mild brings the girls ALIVE!
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