IR.. where are we at now? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 Old 01-09-2013, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Zarich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 470
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
My plasma is dying after only 4.5 years due to what Samsung calls a bad panel (50A450 (and no warranty left)). I really love the picture of the plasma, but have hated the IR.
On my Samsung if you have the netflix open for even a few minutes you get IR. If you have on demand up for any length of time you get IR. Gaming gave me little to no IR which I found odd unless I played something with bright greens and then I would get IR that would take days to go away.
IR has bugged me from the beginning.

So I have begun my search for a new TV (and right now Samsung is on my NO list due to these issues (search thin black line samsung plasma)). My parents have a Panasonic that is 6 years old and never has any IR problems. They run their tv at dynamic contrast and watch channels with LOGOS everywhere.

However, when I start reading these forums it seems like Panasonics have gotten worse on IR and Samsungs have not changed.

Is there any point when IR will not be an issue?? I really need a general purpose TV and can't stand the motion blur of an LCD.
Zarich is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old 01-09-2013, 11:33 AM
Senior Member
 
jerrolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 247
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 17
IR on 2011 and 2012 Panasonics is bad. My 2008 model had no issues.

After breaking my 60ST50 in for about 350hrs - i get IR, although now it seems to go away faster than it did after i did the 100hr slide prep.

As of right now Samsung plasmas are the choice for gamers since you can use "PC" mode to get low input lag, and IR is significantly better. I am still on the fence about swapping mine for an E6500, gonna give it another week - i have 2 weeks left for exchange.
jerrolds is offline  
post #3 of 17 Old 01-09-2013, 11:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fatuglyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mars
Posts: 1,435
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Liked: 133
I must be in the minority, because I noticed no difference in the frequency of IR on my 2012 Panasonic versus my older 2010 Panasonic. I had an April 2010 build TC-P50G20. I switched to an April 2012 build TC-P55VT50 and notice temporary IR occurs as easily as the last one and goes away just as fast. Doesn't bug me.

ht Panasonic 60" ZT60, Monitor Audio: Silver RX6, RX Centre, RX1; Martinlogan Dynamo 700, Marantz SR5006, PS3, Oppo BDP-103D, Panamax M-5100PM
2ch Sony 32" W650A, Sonus faber Toy Monitor, REL T3, Marantz PM8004, Sony BDP-S1000ES, JVC T-X3 tuner, Apple TV, Peachtree Audio DAC•iT, Panamax MR4300
pc Monitor Audio Radius 90HD, Audioengine D1, FiiO A1
+ Sony 65" XBRX850B, Sony BDP-S5100
fatuglyguy is online now  
post #4 of 17 Old 01-09-2013, 12:12 PM
Advanced Member
 
dmaul1114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 706
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
I've only had my 55" UT50 since Monday, and have mainly been running slides, so I don't have a lot of experience with it yet.

But I will say I watched the national championship game on ESPN and ESPN 3D (about 3/4ths on the latter) and there was no hint of IR from the scoreboard etc. when I put the slides back up right after the game.

Last plasma I tried was a Vizio back in '06-07 and it got temp IR very quickly and had a loud buzz (my UT50 buzzes too, but MUCH quieter and not noticeable with sound on usually) that led to me returning it after two weeks. So this one is a lot better in the early stages than that one was. Can't compare to older Panny or Samsung models since I never had one.
dmaul1114 is offline  
post #5 of 17 Old 01-09-2013, 12:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
SightSeeker1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MD
Posts: 593
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 15
60" ST50 with no break in slides or any of that "bro science" crap and not one instance of IR. I game on it all the time. Currently I have been playing fallout vegas that has a fixed HUD on the screen and there is no sign of it. I'm up to 40+ hours on the game and nothing. I'm starting to get convinced the running the slides causes premature wear or damage to the TV. I don't think these consumer grade TV's were meant to be run 24/7 like that....but what do I know that is my official bro science on the matter.

Is there any manufacture that supports breaking in the TV with slides or one engineer from a reputable company that even supports break in slides for hundreds of hours? Why do people even do this again?
SightSeeker1 is offline  
post #6 of 17 Old 01-09-2013, 12:52 PM
Advanced Member
 
HLdan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Liked: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by SightSeeker1 View Post

Is there any manufacture that supports breaking in the TV with slides or one engineer from a reputable company that even supports break in slides for hundreds of hours? Why do people even do this again?

So many people here do it for the wrong reasons. The slides are only meant to prep the panel for calibration. It does not prevent, reduce or nullify chances of image retention, nor does it make the picture look any better.
HLdan is offline  
post #7 of 17 Old 01-09-2013, 01:06 PM
Advanced Member
 
SightSeeker1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MD
Posts: 593
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLdan View Post

So many people here do it for the wrong reasons. The slides are only meant to prep the panel for calibration. It does not prevent, reduce or nullify chances of image retention, nor does it make the picture look any better.

Exactly. All they are doing is wearing out the TV and if the TV is prone to IR after X amount of hours they are just getting there quicker.
SightSeeker1 is offline  
post #8 of 17 Old 01-09-2013, 01:06 PM
Advanced Member
 
dmaul1114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 706
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLdan View Post

So many people here do it for the wrong reasons. The slides are only meant to prep the panel for calibration. It does not prevent, reduce or nullify chances of image retention, nor does it make the picture look any better.

Yep. The only IR benefit is getting past the 100 hours or whatever faster, as sets due tend to be more prone to temporary IR in the early hours. Running the slides when not in use just gets past that point faster than just watching TV normally on nights and weekends and turning it off while at work/a sleep.

Faster way to get to a point where you can worry less about logos, black bars etc.

Amazon only has a 14 day return window, so I'm running slides while not in use so I can get past the 100 hours, calibrate with a disc and see how the PQ and IR are after the 100 hour mark before my return window is up.
dmaul1114 is offline  
post #9 of 17 Old 01-09-2013, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Zarich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 470
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Why has panasonic gotten worse?
Zarich is offline  
post #10 of 17 Old 01-09-2013, 02:10 PM
Advanced Member
 
Jay Mammoth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 551
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 18
They havent, just got my 55" VT yesterday, watched Justified on FX and watching Conan right now on TBS both have logos zero IR, and thats without breaking in the set.

Jay Mammoth is offline  
post #11 of 17 Old 01-09-2013, 02:18 PM
Advanced Member
 
Dierkdr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 849
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarich View Post

Why has panasonic gotten worse?

Somebody - probably Randy - speculated that it might be because they have gotten Brighter.

Suppose it might also be because more people Game on their plasmas, or use them as Super Large Computer Monitors - and/or because more channels are in love with constant Logos or other static images / streamers.

..............

Slides, in and of themselves, probably don't do anything to prevent IR, but OUR experience has been that Generally Aging a panel does tend to reduce the speed of IR Onset, and Shorten its Duration (if/when it does happen) - and Slides are probably one of the most convenient & "safest" means of aging a panel - at least when played from a SD card.

IR incidence on our 60ST50 has improved dramatically since the panel was new, with the change becoming apparent (or, at least, First Noticed) at a point Somewhat Beyond the 400+ hours of usage mark.

The panel does still appear more "IR Prone" than our two older Panasonic sets, but it is no longer a concern in normal usage. (Then again, we do NOT Game, or use the panel as a Super Large Computer Monitor!)

Also, FWIW, we have had over 1/2 dozen 2011 / 12 Pan panels in the Immediate Family, and ALL of them have shown PQ Changes over the course of AT LEAST the first 200 - 500 hours of usage - mostly for the better, but (Alas!) not in all cases. It makes sense to us, therefore, to "Age" a panel as rapidly as possible when new - and certainly while still within the return period - looking for an Negative Changes, as well as in the hopes of uncovering any Infant Mortality Issues.
Dierkdr is offline  
post #12 of 17 Old 01-09-2013, 02:23 PM
Member
 
davelanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dierkdr View Post

Somebody - probably Randy - speculated that it might be because they have gotten Brighter.
Suppose it might also be because more people Game on their plasmas, or use them as Super Large Computer Monitors - and/or because more channels are in love with constant Logos or other static images / streamers.
..............
Slides, in and of themselves, probably don't do anything to prevent IR, but OUR experience has been that Generally Aging a panel does tend to reduce the speed of IR Onset, and Shorten its Duration (if/when it does happen) - and Slides are probably one of the most convenient & "safest" means of aging a panel - at least when played from a SD card.
IR incidence on our 60ST50 has improved dramatically since the panel was new, with the change becoming apparent (or, at least, First Noticed) at a point Somewhat Beyond the 400+ hours of usage mark.
The panel does still appear more "IR Prone" than our two older Panasonic sets, but it is no longer a concern in normal usage. (Then again, we do NOT Game, or use the panel as a Super Large Computer Monitor!)
Also, FWIW, we have had over 1/2 dozen 2011 / 12 Pan panels in the Immediate Family, and ALL of them have shown PQ Changes over the course of AT LEAST the first 200 - 500 hours of usage - mostly for the better, but (Alas!) not in all cases. It makes sense to us, therefore, to "Age" a panel as rapidly as possible when new - and certainly while still within the return period - looking for an Negative Changes, as well as in the hopes of uncovering any Infant Mortality Issues.

to add to this IMO I really dont see IR an issue if you can only see it when viewing the slides. If you cant see it during normal viewing, is it really an issue? It will just go away with normal use, esp if you throw in a pixar movie.
davelanger is offline  
post #13 of 17 Old 01-09-2013, 02:45 PM
Senior Member
 
jerrolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 247
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 17
What do you mean "Negative Changes" when it comes to PQ? Is it easy to tell without meters?
jerrolds is offline  
post #14 of 17 Old 01-09-2013, 03:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
andy sullivan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: sun city west AZ
Posts: 3,443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 304 Post(s)
Liked: 215
The concern is that some get IR and some do not. In a post above( Dierkdr) states that his IR has dramatically improved after 400 hours, yet (Sightseeker1) did no break-in and has experienced no IR at all. It seems that buying a Panasonic plasma is really a crap shoot. Maybe you'll get lucky and maybe you won't. Several threads here on this Forum dedicated to IR problems and the same scenario keeps popping up. Some get and some don't.
andy sullivan is offline  
post #15 of 17 Old 01-09-2013, 03:17 PM
Advanced Member
 
dmaul1114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 706
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by davelanger View Post

to add to this IMO I really dont see IR an issue if you can only see it when viewing the slides. If you cant see it during normal viewing, is it really an issue? It will just go away with normal use, esp if you throw in a pixar movie.

In my opinion, no. No point in obsessing over things and worrying about problems you don't notice during normal viewing at all. Who cares if there's IR on a white slide if you NEVER see it even during bright scenes in a TV show or movie (i.e. a snow scene).

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

The concern is that some get IR and some do not. In a post above( Dierkdr) states that his IR has dramatically improved after 400 hours, yet (Sightseeker1) did no break-in and has experienced no IR at all. It seems that buying a Panasonic plasma is really a crap shoot. Maybe you'll get lucky and maybe you won't. Several threads here on this Forum dedicated to IR problems and the same scenario keeps popping up. Some get and some don't.

Some of that could be related to the above. Some say they don't see IR as they never check a white screen etc. and it's not noticeable during normal viewing. Others check white screens etc. and discover IR and post about it.

Not to say that there isn't variation in panels, or that some people get more than others due to their usage (more games, static logos etc. for longer periods of time).
dmaul1114 is offline  
post #16 of 17 Old 01-09-2013, 03:41 PM
Senior Member
 
Wolowizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaul1114 View Post

In my opinion, no. No point in obsessing over things and worrying about problems you don't notice during normal viewing at all. Who cares if there's IR on a white slide if you NEVER see it even during bright scenes in a TV show or movie (i.e. a snow scene).
Some of that could be related to the above. Some say they don't see IR as they never check a white screen etc. and it's not noticeable during normal viewing. Others check white screens etc. and discover IR and post about it.
Not to say that there isn't variation in panels, or that some people get more than others due to their usage (more games, static logos etc. for longer periods of time).

Two good points. And just to throw a little more out there in no particular order:

+ There's variation in panels (probabaly a lot less than some make it out to be)
+ There's variation in human perception
+ There's variation in human tolerance
+ Some people go out of their way to find problems
+ Some people don't go out of their way to find problems
+ Some people use abusive settings
+ Some people have more abusive viewing/usage habits
+ People that aren't otherwise on the forum generally aren't going to come create an account just to say they don't have a problem
+ People without issues get tired of repeating themselves in the 18th thread that the issue comes up in
+ People create biased polls that later get quoted as scientific evidence
+ etc
Wolowizard is offline  
post #17 of 17 Old 01-09-2013, 04:19 PM
Advanced Member
 
Dierkdr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 849
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrolds View Post

What do you mean "Negative Changes" when it comes to PQ? Is it easy to tell without meters?

Sorry: forgot that not everyone was paying attention to the 2011 panels: EVERY 2011 panel we had in house - or in our two son's houses - had Green Blob issues to one extent or another.
We had 5 2011's at our house (although one arrived with a cracked screen mad.gif ); eldest son 2; youngest son 1 - in addition, we checked out Over 20 panels in stores (most with help from store personnel) and found a Green Problem on each of them (mind you, we WERE being fussy, AND had a SD Card with slides that we knew emphasized the problem: many of those sets would have passed a casual viewing).

EVERY one of the sets we (or sons) had saw an Improvement in the Green Blob issue as the panels aged - and the 4 that were kept for At Least 500 hours ended up with negligible Unwanted Green (we could still "demonstrate" unwanted Green, but it was not an issue in normal viewing).

Alas, both of the 60ST30s that we kept for Beyond 500 Hours developed a significant Pink Tint problem. This was also reported by a number of other 2011 owners, but did not seem to be nearly as frequent of a problem as the Green Blobs were.

Our 60ST50 was a replacement - from Panasonic - for the last 60ST30 we had: the Pink Tint reached a point where there was no denying its existence. (Am leaving out quite a bit of info here - if really interested you should probably be able to find earlier discussions, from self & a number of other 2011 owners).

Understandably, we Aggressively Aged the ST50 when it arrived - particularly since IT had a "Yellowish Blob" in the center of the screen, along with the frequently reported Vertical Line Glitch.

Am glad to report the the screen on our ST50 is now wonderfully uniform, with NO trace of the Yellowish Blob, and only the barest HINT of a vertical "Shadow" - just inside the R bezel - that even I RARELY see, and even then am not convinced that it is "real." (Using the HD709 disk, this is easily the best panel we've had - and I cannot REPEATEDLY spot the Vertical Line on any of the slides: wife thinks it is just an Afterimage from spending SO MUCH TIME Closely Evaluating panel after panel after panel - and she must might be right!)

FWIW: Eldest son returned one 2011 panel (50") for Green Blobs + Growing Pink Tint, but kept the second (both dirt-cheap 50S30s), as both problems improved significantly during his return period. (90-days from Costco.... Although that panel has now developed a Growing Buzz, and apparently has some sort of Fluctuating Black Level glitch.)
Youngest son bought a 55GT30, and the Green Blob on his set was Barely Visible when new, and soon dissipated. Have not noticed Pink Tint on his set at all.

YMMV, but we are very happy with our 60ST50 - which seems to have done nothing but Improve as it has aged. At least do date.... smile.gif
Dierkdr is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off