Where is my (our) Kuro replacement? - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 501 Old 02-13-2013, 01:54 PM
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Yes i agree, it was plenty black the VT50. Agree also the F8500 could be formidable, as far as Panasonic are concerned anyway, which is the only plasma they should be worrying about imo. Not a plasma built and designed by a different class level of engineers with no particular limit of budget. A different technology and a different class of components. Ha...Good.
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post #272 of 501 Old 02-13-2013, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

This is a very crucial point many people don't realize. Today's energy regulations have been very difficult for today's plasmas as they thrive on power. This is one of the main reasons nothing matches a Kuro which uses far more power. It's really amazing Panasonic and even Samsung have been able to produce the quality image they do with less and less power every year, so they are making significant technological advances in a certain way.

I'd have to agree I just helped a friend setup a 64" Samsung plasma last night and it has a great picture plus it puts out noticeably less heat than my 50" 5080HD Kuro.

I'm also surprised how thin Plasmas can be these days, The Samsung is only 2.2" thick.
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post #273 of 501 Old 02-13-2013, 06:18 PM
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I'm sorry, what heat are you guys talking about? I just got done watching Skyfall, which is a 2 1/2 hour movie, and my kuro was warm at the vents. Not even that warm actually. And the TV uses 300 watts and below when in use. 250 to 280 on average. What heat?

And i'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how energy translates to PQ.

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post #274 of 501 Old 02-13-2013, 06:49 PM
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Kidding right? I couldn't have my Kuro on in a good sized room w/o air. Guest mentioned it. Oh it's 20 degreas tonite right?
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post #275 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Kidding right? I couldn't have my Kuro on in a good sized room w/o air. Guest mentioned it. Oh it's 20 degreas tonite right?

Seems my now sold 5020 put out as much heat as my 65vt30 does. Very easy to notice 2ft from the screen.

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post #276 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Kidding right? I couldn't have my Kuro on in a good sized room w/o air. Guest mentioned it. Oh it's 20 degreas tonite right?

Yep. From the back it doesn't feel that hot, but from the front, they definitely put out some heat. I have a 60" (141FD) in the living room and a 50" (111FD) in another room, and both rooms will get pretty dang warm after a period of time. They come in handy during the winter though. smile.gif

That being said, I wouldn't trade neither one of them in for anything on the market now.

And just a note, both TV's have been ISF calibrated and I always leave them on ISF-Night settings.
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post #277 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

I'm sorry, what heat are you guys talking about? I just got done watching Skyfall, which is a 2 1/2 hour movie, and my kuro was warm at the vents. Not even that warm actually. And the TV uses 300 watts and below when in use. 250 to 280 on average. What heat?

And i'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how energy translates to PQ.

Really?!

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post #278 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agkss View Post

Panasonic Europe Conference on Nice:
KRP600 VS ZT60 VS VT50



.

I'm a bit skeptical when a challenge is set up and run by the challenging party. I'd like to see an independent test done without Panasonic involved.

I wasn't present at this event but what I've gathered is the picture above the Kuro is on the left side with a light shining directly over/on it. You can clearly see it on the top of the bezel and on the back wall behind it. The ZT60 appears to be in the middle which so conveniently lacks an overhead or front light source. Actually the light kind of straddles the right hand side and falls more on the VT model side.

I'm just speculating but something tells me if they swap positions the ZT will look exactly like the Kuro in that picture. This is not a knock on Panasonic because they have made great strides in the last 2 years and it looks like the ZT model is going to be a tremendous accomplishment regardless.

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post #279 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petmic10 View Post

I'm a bit skeptical when a challenge is set up and run by the challenging party. I'd like to see an independent test done without Panasonic involved.

Stay tuned for the VE Shootout later in the year.

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post #280 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petmic10 View Post

I'm a bit skeptical when a challenge is set up and run by the challenging party. I'd like to see an independent test done without Panasonic involved.

I wasn't present at this event but what I've gathered is the picture above the Kuro is on the left side with a light shining directly over/on it. You can clearly see it on the top of the bezel and on the back wall behind it. The ZT60 appears to be in the middle which so conveniently lacks an overhead or front light source. Actually the light kind of straddles the right hand side and falls more on the VT model side.

I'm just speculating but something tells me if they swap positions the ZT will look exactly like the Kuro in that picture. This is not a knock on Panasonic because they have made great strides in the last 2 years and it looks like the ZT model is going to be a tremendous accomplishment regardless.

Also take into account that the Panasonics have a Louver Filter designed to reject light from overhead light sources, while the Kuro does not. That would cause the Kuro's screen to wash out moreso than the Panasonics under overhead lighting. Probably not a good environment for comparing the two brands. I'd be more curious about how they all compare in a dim or dark room and i think that's been posted somewhere already.

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post #281 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Also take into account that the Panasonics have a Louver Filter designed to reject light from overhead light sources, while the Kuro does not. That would cause the Kuro's screen to wash out moreso than the Panasonics under overhead lighting. Probably not a good environment for comparing the two brands. I'd be more curious about how they all compare in a dim or dark room and i think that's been posted somewhere already.

Good point about the filter.

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post #282 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Kidding right? I couldn't have my Kuro on in a good sized room w/o air. Guest mentioned it. Oh it's 20 degreas tonite right?

I have a nearly 6-year-old 60" Kuro placed in a 20' x 20' room that I sit 12' - 14' from. There is no excessive heat emanating from my panel.
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post #283 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 08:04 AM
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I have had 4 plasma tv's in the last 6 years, and this year tried my first LCD the samsung es9000, every single one of the plasma's required me to close the heating vents in my tv room, as the tv would heat the room (12x18 ft) very comfortably when on. This is the first time in 6 years I found my tv room cold. While none of my plasma's were a Kuro, one Hitachi Director Series, two Panny's, a G10 and a GT50 and a Samsung 5 series, would indicate to me the heat that came from all 4 were a result of the plasma tech, and not related to any specific brand. While I might believe that the Kuro COULD run cooler than any of the 4 I have had, I would feel pretty confident that it would put off enough heat to warm a room watching a 2 hour movie, especially given that it consumes more electricity than any of the 4 plasma's I have had. While it may be more efficient at transforming that energy into light, it would seem likely that a by-product would be increased heat as well.
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post #284 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post

I have a nearly 6-year-old 60" Kuro placed in a 20' x 20' room that I sit 12' - 14' from. There is no excessive heat emanating from my panel.

Yeah same here. My room is smaller at 1500cuft. My kuro gets warm not hot. But apparently we are lying.

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post #285 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Yeah same here. My room is smaller at 1500cuft. My kuro gets warm not hot. But apparently we are lying.

I own a 2005 50" Panasonic and a 2007 60" Pioneer plasma display. I haven't experienced any problems with either PDP and both panels have multi-1000s hours of operation, although my Panasonic PDP is still plagued w/image retention to this day.

Obviously, both panels are less energy efficient than today's models and I have not enabled the energy saving features for the Pioneer display.

The Panasonic PDP was made in Japan and the Pioneer PDP was made in Japan and assembled in America. I'm not sure if the price $5400/$7500, number of units made during 2005/2007 or where the panels were constructed/assembled has anything to do w/their problem free operation?

I can't speak for anyone else but this 50+ year old individual has nothing to gain from lying about or embellishing the facts regarding the performance of his PDPs.
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post #286 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Stay tuned for the VE Shootout later in the year.

This year should be a good one. I actually attended a shootoout a few years back. Robert puts on a nice event.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Also take into account that the Panasonics have a Louver Filter designed to reject light from overhead light sources, while the Kuro does not. That would cause the Kuro's screen to wash out moreso than the Panasonics under overhead lighting. Probably not a good environment for comparing the two brands. I'd be more curious about how they all compare in a dim or dark room and i think that's been posted somewhere already.

I forgot about the filter, good call. I would still like to see the ZT in the Kuro's postion with the light directly shining on it.

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post #287 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Yeah same here. My room is smaller at 1500cuft. My kuro gets warm not hot. But apparently we are lying.

I was taught in my neighborhood in NY that if you point a finger at someone, you have 3 pointing back at you. You in essence called others liars for pointing out that Kuros give off enough heat to warm a room by posting: “I'm sorry, what heat are you guys talking about? I just got done watching Skyfall, which is a 2 1/2 hour movie, and my kuro was warm at the vents. Not even that warm actually. And the TV uses 300 watts and below when in use. 250 to 280 on average. What heat?

And i'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how energy translates to PQ.”

I’ve owned two Elites and have had them in different rooms. The give off much more heat the VT50. You can’t bs me. I owned the TV you have.

The Kuro is great but don’t insult me and others by fanboying us with a Kuros can do no wrong stance.

People come to this site for science not fanboys who won’t give up an inch in the interest of fair reporting.
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post #288 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post

I own a 2005 50" Panasonic and a 2007 60" Pioneer plasma display. I haven't experienced any problems with either PDP and both panels have multi-1000s hours of operation, although my Panasonic PDP is still plagued w/image retention to this day.

Obviously, both panels are less energy efficient than today's models and I have not enabled the energy saving features for the Pioneer display.

The Panasonic PDP was made in Japan and the Pioneer PDP was made in Japan and assembled in America. I'm not sure if the price $5400/$7500, number of units made during 2005/2007 or where the panels were constructed/assembled has anything to do w/their problem free operation?

I can't speak for anyone else but this 50+ year old individual has nothing to gain from lying about or embellishing the facts regarding the performance of his PDPs.

And I have nothing to gain by stating the 2 Kuro's I owned gave off a lot of heat and that guests made mention of it. See my post to saprano for further edification.
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post #289 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 09:17 AM
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"And I have nothing to gain by stating the 2 Kuro's I owned gave off a lot of heat and that guests made mention of it."

“nothing to gain from lying about or embellishing the facts”

A poor choice of words on my part. Our panels are not identical so your experience may be different than mine.

Although I am satisfied with the performance of my PDP, I'm not such a great fan of Pioneer products that I don't desire something better.

If there was a 65"(+) display that rendered an image superior to my PDP I would seriously consider upgrading my display, but given its size & anticipated cost the TX-P60ZT60 does not fit the bill for me.
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post #290 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 09:27 AM
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^^^

No worries. I apologize for being aggressive with you. I know you're kind of new around here. There are 2 or 3 people who'll challenge any criticism of the Kuro. I loved the PQ and reliability of my Kuros. I'll admit that the VT can't compete. But I'm in a much bigger room now and wanted the biggest plasma I could find. All that said....the Kuro and Pioneer weren't perfect.
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post #291 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 10:11 AM
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More side by side video of the Kuro, ZT, and VT. Demo starts at 1:54.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRLYeth_tfY&feature=youtu.be

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post #292 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 10:29 AM
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Don't want to sound negative. But like was said above it was set up to fail. It's a fact of life. No one would buy the new expensive fancy cream cake if it wasn't made to look nicer than a well established world renowned cream cake that has better ingredients sitting beside it. And therefore tastes better. Psychological sales and marketing has been the same since it began - and it will remain that way.

It is a bitter pill but the way of life. Money has to be made - there is nothing wrong with that, it makes the world go round.

Some will fall for it and some won't. It's not like it would be a mistake buying one if in the market for a brand spanking new 60/65". I'm sure it's a great display - like the Samsung F8500 will be.

But the Kuro's are unique. Nothing built in these and the black tech is going to change all of a sudden because some new "pretender" is coming soon. It has a lot to live up to. It's minimum MLL should be the least of it's worries.
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post #293 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Don't want to sound negative. But like was said above it was set up to fail. It's a fact of life. No one would buy the new expensive fancy cream cake if it wasn't made to look nicer than a well established world renowned cream cake that has better ingredients sitting beside it. And therefore tastes better. Psychological sales and marketing has been the same since it began - and it will remain that way.

It is a bitter pill but the way of life. Money has to be made - there is nothing wrong with that, it makes the world go round.

Some will fall for it and some won't. It's not like it would be a mistake buying one if in the market for a brand spanking new 60/65". I'm sure it's a great display - like the Samsung F8500 will be.

But the Kuro's are unique. Nothing built in these and the black tech is going to change all of a sudden because some new "pretender" is coming soon. It has a lot to live up to. It's minimum MLL should be the least of it's worries.

You repeating this over and over in various threads. is getting tedious. YOU HAVE NO FACTS TO BACK UP YOUR STATEMENT. The person who was present and wrote the article has refuted your claims a few times. Give it up, until the sets are out, and are reviewed your constant statements that somehow the Kuro was crippled to make the ZT look better are unfounded, and baseless. Keep my name in mind, if it turns out that the ZT is not equal or the difference is negligible to the Kuro in the picture, I will retract this posting and issue you a personal apology, but until then, your constant assertions that the Kuro was rigged to look worse, are just you talking out your ass.
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post #294 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 11:26 AM
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It would have been awesome if Panasonic released a 70" or 80" ZT60 for under $10K. Now THAT would be something to talk about. smile.gif
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post #295 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Don't want to sound negative. But like was said above it was set up to fail. It's a fact of life. No one would buy the new expensive fancy cream cake if it wasn't made to look nicer than a well established world renowned cream cake that has better ingredients sitting beside it. And therefore tastes better..

Like when Elaine eats J. Peterman's cake? biggrin.gif
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post #296 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 12:06 PM
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But the Kuro's are unique.

Yup. Best display ever.

Never to be exceeded by anything.

Ever.

Ever.

Ever.

Even Taylor Swift agrees.
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There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #297 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 12:19 PM
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Yup. Best display ever.

Never to be exceeded by anything.

Ever.

Ever.

Ever.

Even Taylor Swift agrees.

Can you name (1) display that exceeds a Kuro PDP?
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post #298 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post

Can you name (1) display that exceeds a Kuro PDP?

Exceeds? Which picture quality categories?

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post #299 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 12:30 PM
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Rogo please name a PDP that "exceeds" a Kuro display in the "Overall" picture category.
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post #300 of 501 Old 02-14-2013, 12:36 PM
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I would go with D-Nice on this one , The Sharp Elite has the contrast of the Kuro and the VT-50 has the color accuracy of the Kuro , but SO FAR no display has matched the PQ of the 9 G Kuro , much less surpassed it .
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