Possibly buying a 65" VT50 Floor model...any issues? - AVS Forum
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I want to replace a couple of TV's this year. i had planned on the Panasonic 65" VT50 then the ZT60/VT60 was released. Anyway, I need to replace one now. I saw a "floor model" at a great price (I know the owner of the store). The TV has just been on the floor for about 2 weeks and is the last one they have. I tried to get a new one but Panasonic Canada has no more available, sold out and now discontinued. Are there any issues to be concerned about purchasing the floor model? Anything to check for? This will be for upstairs family room. I do plan on the ZT60/Samsung whichever i feel I is best for my HT room when they are released in May.

THX.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:44 PM
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Floor models are great for bringing in a USB stick with some slides to check for uniformity issues. Buzzing as well, if you can get the TV in a relatively quiet environment, or stick your head behind the set. In fact, I would be excited knowing I could possibly avoid panel lottery while saving some money.

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Old 01-24-2013, 04:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

Floor models are great for bringing in a USB stick with some slides to check for uniformity issues. Buzzing as well, if you can get the TV in a relatively quiet environment, or stick your head behind the set. In fact, I would be excited knowing I could possibly avoid panel lottery while saving some money.

Thanks for the suggestion. What slides do you recommend and where can I get them? Does the buzzing come from the front of the panel or rear of the panel?
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:49 AM
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2 weeks on the floor is not long at all. Plus you know the owner (maybe that's not a plus) I would say check it over and purchase

"We can complain because rose bushes have thorns or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses". - Abraham Lincoln
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:22 PM
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Thanks for the suggestion. What slides do you recommend and where can I get them? Does the buzzing come from the front of the panel or rear of the panel?
You can download the slides here. Just unzip them to a USB stick and you'll be good to go. Uniformity issues usually show up on the grey slides. Solid colors (greens, reds, blues, etc.) are usually completely uniform, unless the panel has some sever issues. If you see a lighter vertical band on the far right side of the panel, understand that these are widespread on the 2012 Panasonic televisions.

As far as buzzing is concerned, it's always there to some degree, so don't think the TV is defective when you stick your head behind the set and hear buzzing. The degree of buzzing from your sitting position is what's important. That's why it's advantageous to get the set in a quiet setting that's comparable to home. If that's possible, sit at a comparable distance from the TV as you would at home, put the TV into Custom and contrast at 100 and turn the slides on. The first slide (100% white field) is usually most audible. Make sure you're in front of the TV and not off angle or with your head above or below the set, as the worst buzzing is often directional.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

You can download the slides here. Just unzip them to a USB stick and you'll be good to go. Uniformity issues usually show up on the grey slides. Solid colors (greens, reds, blues, etc.) are usually completely uniform, unless the panel has some sever issues. If you see a lighter vertical band on the far right side of the panel, understand that these are widespread on the 2012 Panasonic televisions.

As far as buzzing is concerned, it's always there to some degree, so don't think the TV is defective when you stick your head behind the set and hear buzzing. The degree of buzzing from your sitting position is what's important. That's why it's advantageous to get the set in a quiet setting that's comparable to home. If that's possible, sit at a comparable distance from the TV as you would at home, put the TV into Custom and contrast at 100 and turn the slides on. The first slide (100% white field) is usually most audible. Make sure you're in front of the TV and not off angle or with your head above or below the set, as the worst buzzing is often directional.

THANKS!!smile.gif
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:19 PM
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2 weeks on the floor is not long at all. Plus you know the owner (maybe that's not a plus) I would say check it over and purchase

I would go into the service menu and check how many hours the TV has been on, and how many times it's been powered up before buying it.

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Old 01-25-2013, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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So I had the sales guy check the hours on the panel. It came up as 2000HRS! Certainly not a 2 week old "demo" panel. Haven't talked to my buddy that owns the store yet, Story I got from the sales guy was there were two TV's that were on display and they must have sold the other that was 2 weeks old. Do I believe that?...No. Small custom shop i don't think would put 2 65" VT50's on the floor at the same time.. I am disappointed, but happy I found out. Thanks to all the great info here and help from members. I will post back after i talk to the owner.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:04 PM
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Good uniformity? No buzzing problem? Cosmetically OK? Talk the owner down to a good price and take it. Really, 2000 hours is nothing and shouldn't scare you away from a good set. Avoiding panel lottery is highly recommended, at least in my opinion.

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Old 01-25-2013, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

Good uniformity? No buzzing problem? Cosmetically OK? Talk the owner down to a good price and take it. Really, 2000 hours is nothing and shouldn't scare you away from a good set. Avoiding panel lottery is highly recommended, at least in my opinion.

Yes I will still check the panel out. . It is a 30% discount or $1.250.00 off of Canadian MSRP. I think still is a good deal.
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Old 01-26-2013, 11:38 AM
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So I had the sales guy check the hours on the panel. It came up as 2000HRS! Certainly not a 2 week old "demo" panel. Haven't talked to my buddy that owns the store yet, Story I got from the sales guy was there were two TV's that were on display and they must have sold the other that was 2 weeks old. Do I believe that?...No. Small custom shop i don't think would put 2 65" VT50's on the floor at the same time.. I am disappointed, but happy I found out. Thanks to all the great info here and help from members. I will post back after i talk to the owner.

I'm glad you were as suspicious as i was biggrin.gif Nobody displays a TV for only 2 weeks only to take it back down and sell it.

Very often, salesmen either have no idea about the history of their open-box inventory or just blatantly lie thinking they can fool the customer. I've been dealing directly with many many salesmen for my whole 35 year career and while i have a love/hate relationship with them, i rarely ever believe anything they have to say and am always skeptical at first until they prove otherwise or gain my trust and respect. I would tell your friend just what his employee did here - maybe he condones it or maybe he cares about his store's reputation and customer's trust in it.

But yeah if the TV is otherwise in acceptable condition and various light colored and green slides don't expose any IR or burn-in from 2,000 hours of store abuse, maybe you can get a great deal on that TV.

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Old 01-26-2013, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok So here is the update on the VT50. I went to the store and the first thing the sales guy did was apologize for the mistake on the panel age. He explained what had happened and the explanation made a lot more sense and he was sincere. The owner called me and also told me what had happened. Anyway....I ran the slide as instructed:

1) There was a very slight buzz on the "white" slide that I could hear up close 1-2 feet away if I was close to the side of the set. Straight on I couldn't really hear it. backing up to 6 ft I really heard nothing. Buzz was lower on the color slides I could not hear from 3 feet away in front.
2) There was some definite "burn in" down in the right hand corner on the white colored slides. It said Dolby True HD. When I switched to the grayer slide it was still there but very faded. Very very slight on yellow slide and none on the darker blue and greens and I could not detect any burn in on black.
3) The sales guy told me that he was not sure how long the demo disc was running on this particular set. He said it may go away and there was a "wipe" function that may help, but could not guaranty that the burn in would disappear. He said that the test DVD with the Dolby True HD logo label was fairly new to them and doesn't think it was used for very long. I could not detect the burn in during movie playback unless I really was looking and only very slightly on certain scenes if I really paid attention, none the less it is there..
4) the picture looked very good otherwise.
4) The slide colors were uniform, No lines or strip showed up on the right side.
5) all in all the set looked good except for the burn in logo which because i know it is there I will always be looking for.

Do you think the burn in logo will fade or go away? Is there anything that can be done to eliminate this?

The other curve ball that was thrown at me was I looked at a Samsung ES8000 LED. The picture was bright and the colors were so vivid and the black looked pretty damn black. I am not sure why people say that LED black are not good..I though the blacks were very good on the Samsung. However, there was a huge difference between the 6000 and 7000 series... those blacks ,looked dark gray and bleeding was evident on the 7000 and 6000 but not on the 8000..Never been an LCD fan, but the Samsung looked real nice. We kept on switching back and forth with the same source material and they both looked good (VT & Es8000). I did notice some motion blur with the LED. It got me thinking now VT50 or ES8000. If the burn in issue can be dealt with I think I would go for the plasma and VT50. I know that both sets had no calibration so hard to compare settings. I can get the VT50 at a good price. The LED I can get about 15% discount on the Samsung, but it will still cost more than the VT by about 200 bucks. any thoughts? THX
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:44 PM
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Your buzzing sounds very acceptable.

I'm going to assume the set is displaying image retention, not burn-in. I've had image retention on my S1 that has lasted for 24 hours or more sometimes but it always eventually went away. Then again, it could be burn-in and the only way you can make sure is running full-screen content for a period of time to verify. Ask the manager to run the slides or run some other full-screen content without logos for a day.

As far as the comparison with the ES8000 is concerned, it's hard to appreciate the deeper black levels in a store setting. The ES8000 is good but the VT50 is better. In a light controlled environment with dark content, you'd be able to tell the difference.

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Old 01-26-2013, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Yukon Trooper. I suspect it may be IR and not burn in as well. I asked the owner to run a day of regular content with no logo or black bars. If he agrees, I will check again after that day.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:06 AM
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Thanks Yukon Trooper. I suspect it may be IR and not burn in as well. I asked the owner to run a day of regular content with no logo or black bars. If he agrees, I will check again after that day.

Unless that logo completely disappears do not buy the set. Retailers tend to run demo discs all day every day so any logo that's constantly on the disc will indeed cause permanent damage--I know from personal experience as I work for one. We had a demo disc for "Soundstage" concert BDs running on a Samsung with a logo in the lower left corner--burned in within 2 days.

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Old 01-27-2013, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Unless that logo completely disappears do not buy the set. Retailers tend to run demo discs all day every day so any logo that's constantly on the disc will indeed cause permanent damage--I know from personal experience as I work for one. We had a demo disc for "Soundstage" concert BDs running on a Samsung with a logo in the lower left corner--burned in within 2 days.

Burn in after 2 days? not just IR? was the TV on vivid mode or something?
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:05 AM
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Burn in after 2 days? not just IR? was the TV on vivid mode or something?

2 days=24 hours straight on a brand new set, and like 95% of display tvs in stores it was in Torch mode. This particular logo on this particular demo disc was bright white, not translucent, and stayed onscreen 100% of the time the set was on. That demo was taken off the set and the set put on the normal store feed, which has never caused image retention or burn in on any set, and run for another few months--the logo was still visible on solid white or light color screen content.

I am not by any means one who thinks burn-in is a real problem any more in anything approaching normal use and don't hesitate to recommend them to customers on that basis, but it is still possible under extreme conditions to provoke it. If the OP's thinking of purchasing a store demo set that's had similar use I would not recommend it. Store personnel generally don't run around changing inputs or such to prevent this--they turn on the demo and leave it on all day every day. His retailer may be an exception to the rule, but I still would not recommend he buy this particular set unless he can go in and put up his test slide and see no evidence whatever of that logo.

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Old 01-29-2013, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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So the update is...they sold the demo to someone else. I guess I was too much of a PIA. No worries I was able to find a brand new one. I think it is the last one in Canada since Panasonic Canada is sold out and I called 15 dealers within 60 miles. I got a tip on a wholesaler that may have one left. i called and they had 1. Bought it and got a 20% discount off MSRP saved $850. Delivering on Thursday. Thanks to everyone on this forum that took the time to help and advise.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:42 PM
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How much did you get the VT50 for? I'm actually thinking of switching back tot he Panny camp...Where were you able to negotiate 20% off?
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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How much did you get the VT50 for? I'm actually thinking of switching back tot he Panny camp...Where were you able to negotiate 20% off?

MSRP in Canada is $4199 I got is for $3,350.00. I got then to through in a $200.00 12ft Monster HDMI cable ( I know Monster is way overprices...but it was free)
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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it was a wholesaler here in Canada.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:22 PM
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I wonder if i can negotiate a 60ST50 down to $1600 or $1700 if its End of Line here at Visions (i also live in Canada)

Its currently selling for $1899 on sale (reg $2100)
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:31 AM
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Well, I'm going to test the waters on a Panny 65VT50. Sears had a floor model priced at $1480 on their outlet website, plus I had a 10% off coupon, so it's $1412 after tax. It comes with the standard warranty and a 60 day return policy. Only bad thing about ordering it online is it will be packed up when I get there, so I'll have to drag it back if I'm not satisfied. I had an order for a 60ST60 from Abes of Maine for $1435 shipped, so I hope I made the right choice on the 65VT50. I will make sure I check the number of hours on the panel. I hoping for under 3,000.
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:56 AM
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Outstanding price. If they let you take it back, I'd go that route for sure. I just bought a lightly used floor model 65VT50 myself and I love it. Totally satisfied.

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Old 07-04-2013, 05:18 PM
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I read through this thread. As well read a lot about current Panasonic line up as well as VT50. I am primarily interested in 65". Never owned a plasma before. Hardly ever watch TV. Want it only to watch movies occasionally - once or twice a week. Not interested in gaming or 3D. Just good viewing experience. I am upgrading my 12 year old Hitachi rear projection to Plasma.

I was in the Best Buy store and they had one VT50 (open floor display model) available for really low price of $1900.00. The Magnolia sales person sounded knowledgeable and was not pushy. I won't fault him for trying to push me towards VT60. He didn't seen interested in selling ZT60 to me smile.gif

He showed me the VT50 with alternating pattern of vertical white and dark bars scrolling. He indicated that being a floor model this particular TV had some burn-in. Burn-in he indicated appeared to me as barely noticeable horizontal irregular line (may be about 2mm thick) in the lower one-third of the screen and similar vertical line on the left side of the display. Both barely visible even with the white background. It is only in the white background they are visible. I asked him if it can be washed out. He said it is possible. His main argument against buying it was that in their stores they run these displays from morning till the evening. The customers come and change the settings. Therefore who knows how it has been handled. I am planning to go today with the slides and ask him to play it. And also check the service menu for number of hours on the TV.

I read discussions about accessing the service menu voiding the warranty. I don't think Magnolia person doing it should void anything. I will ask for that.

The second best buy store in the area has a returned VT50 from the factory with motherboard replaced. The sales person in that store strongly discouraged me even buying that particular TV since he knew his history. He mentioned that the TV had been returned twice by two different customers. Both times it was sent to the factory and this was second time it came back with the motherboard replaced. It was a coincidence that the TV rolled in at the same time I asked him if he had any VT50s. The price tag in the system is $2200.00. He said he wants to avoid selling it to anyone, since motherboard needing to be replaced twice made him suspicious that there was something else going to cause the motherboard to go faulty. Even though refurbished models carry the same warranty and this has returned from the factory, I am little surprised that two different customers bought it and had to return it for the motherboard failure.

The third VT50 is from someone on the craigslist, eager to sell me a model for $1900. Was initially told that it was open floor display model. Now I am told that they don't know its origin. The TV dealer is 2 hours drive away. I asked him to check the service menu and tell me the log for the number of hours. He refuses to do so saying it will void the warranty. He is offering me to come check it out but that is 2 hours drive. Not sure if I want to go all the way. So this choice is probably out of contention.

The first best buy is my preferred one if everything checks out. Any input on if those lines that the sales guy claim is burn-in are just IR or something else?

I was planning to by S64 from Costco. But VT50 for under $2000 is very enticing. Not sure if I want to spend money on new ST60 (in which case I would rather buy new VT60). Given my sparse TV viewing habits, if VT50 checks out, I would rather buy it.
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Old 07-04-2013, 06:08 PM
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If you (or anyone else) live in or near Chicago, check out my 65VT50 ad in the AVS Classified section.
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Old 07-04-2013, 07:44 PM
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The BB priced matched P65VT60 from Abe of Main, who they considered authorised dealer. Given 600 difference was good deal for the latest I bought it.
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:40 PM
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If you (or anyone else) live in or near Chicago, check out my 65VT50 ad in the AVS Classified section.

i checked it out and bought it!! thanks so much jbug for a wonderful transaction!
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