ZT60 Series, Shipping May 2013, Models/Sizes/List Prices - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1309 Old 04-16-2013, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

What you've said certainly comes into play with the shootout, but where customer satisfaction is concerned.... wink.gif Buzzing and brightness pops in Amazon reviews won't be so pretty. However, I doubt that David Katzmeier will see any, his sight kind of glazes over where Samsungs are concerned.

And he doesn't for Panasonic? Hopefully I miss understood your post. If I didn't. You need to think twice about C-Net and Panasonic.

You think that he's a Panny fanboy?

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post #452 of 1309 Old 04-16-2013, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Depending on what content is shown at the shootout, I wouldn't be surprised to see the 8500 win in 'apparent contrast' depending on the APL of the scene. I'm convinced, from what I saw today, the 8500 will beat the ZT in both apparent contrast (due to its ability to hold brighter whites over larger expenses of screen real estate) as well as detail. Yes, I suspect the ZT will edge out the 8500 in the category of MLL, but I really wonder if the 8500 won't look more impressive in a greater % of scenes.

I just returned from another visit to the same Magnolia. I asked them to put on a less stylized movie so that I could get a better handle on color. They put in Iron Man which had some really nice bright as well as dark scenes. Again, neither panel was calibrated (8500 in Movie mode, VT60 in THX Bright mode).

IMO dark scenes were a draw, but bright scenes went to the 8500 as it did better in holding large expanses of white. This created a greater sensation of depth. I saw absolutely no pops during the brightest of scenes. However again, I felt the VT showed a bit more shadow detail.

Both were beautiful displays. smile.gif

Theres the rub, by the time they "evaluate" the screens the numebrs are already out so even if they appear "close" knowing teh numbers I wonder if they vote would be swayed.....What I would REALLY like to see are before and after votes Where the guests vote without knowing which set is which based on content shown only. Then after the numbers are out and they have gone through each presentaion etc another vote at the end......

I have no doubt that all 3 will be beautiful displays each showcasing a different "strength".....
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

What you've said certainly comes into play with the shootout, but where customer satisfaction is concerned.... wink.gif Buzzing and brightness pops in Amazon reviews won't be so pretty. However, I doubt that David Katzmeier will see any, his sight kind of glazes over where Samsungs are concerned.

Hmmmm considering samsung is one of the top display makers\sellers I think thier "customer repuation" is doing just fine rolleyes.gif

Seems to me that I have seen just as many "buzz" reports from Panasonic owners (especially thosee that are new) as I have seen from samsung and BOTH are minimal........

If you want to bring in buzzing and "pops" then I guess you should have also mentioned IR and rising blacks for Panasonic......

As far as your view on DK goes well since Panasonic is a sponser of CNET yeah Ill just leave it at that, he may not like 3D and thats fine, but to imply what you are just makes me laugh....
I also guess that those 5 stars and overly good review he gave on the ST60 was just a "fluke" since hes so biased in favor of Samsung....

Sighhhhh circles and circles.....
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post #453 of 1309 Old 04-16-2013, 07:44 PM
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I really do not know why you guys compare F8500 with ZT60 when except a little more brightness in most cases it is weaker than the ST60!
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post #454 of 1309 Old 04-16-2013, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by alucard3 View Post

I really do not know why you guys compare F8500 with ZT60 when except a little more brightness in most cases it is weaker than the ST60!

Well then I guess the ST must be superior to the VT based on what I saw today. IMO there was only one area where the VT beat the 8500, and that was shadow detail. IMO it lost on sharpness, it lost on brightness, it tied on motion handling and color.

So to me at least, it's a perfectly plausible and valid comparison. But then again I'm manufacturer agnostic and just use my eyes to make these comparisons. There were 4 of us watching and we all agreed during that first session.
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post #455 of 1309 Old 04-16-2013, 08:27 PM
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wait, what? so top tier doesnt compete with top tier? im so confused!

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post #456 of 1309 Old 04-16-2013, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

Unless he plans to sell his set for $1500. No one in their right mind would buy it. Unless he sells it to someone thwat doesn't know any better. Would be kinda messed up to do that to a friend. lol

what?? did u mean to quote another person. My post had nothing to do with price
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post #457 of 1309 Old 04-16-2013, 10:47 PM
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what?? did u mean to quote another person. My post had nothing to do with price

he should have used multi quote, but your post was in response to someone who thought they wouldnt the the 2K they would want for the TV, you said:
Quote:
Not only is this good for you but someone will be lucky to get a VT50. Just invite your friends over and show them a blueray movie in a dark room and they will be

Juke responded with what you quoted....It was a continuation of the conversation wink.gif
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post #458 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 12:46 AM
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Well Panasonic thread turns into sammy boys festival...nothing new...always the same people
ZT60 will WIN the Shootout smile.gif And i returned to post in may 13 only to see the people who talks about F8500 continue...maybe they will say: oh the shootout is biased...and YES Katzmaier never talks about "Brightness pops"...
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post #459 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 01:35 AM
 
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heheh @ sammy boys festival (not pointing any fingers, I just chuckled at the descript biggrin.gif).
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post #460 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skoor View Post

[quote name="Ph8te" url="/t/1454565
...
...Personally I think the ZT60 WILl take the shootuout baring any unfortunate issues...I also think that the VT60 will beat out the F8500 in black and contrast......

quote]

Isn't the shootout's sets calibrated to some known dark room light level? If true, I don't see the Samsung F8500 having a chance to win, since its CR is already lower than a VT50. Its strength seems to be brightness, but they might be moot if the shootout is done like last year.

The shootout also sets sharpness to the lowest possible value of many sets.

I agree that Samsung displays tend to look sharper than Panasonic displays, but that's because of the image enhancement or processing Samsung does. And calibrators don't care if the sharpness improves perceived PQ, they just want the setting the alters the picture the least.
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post #461 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skoor View Post

[quote name="Ph8te" url="/t/1454565
...
...Personally I think the ZT60 WILl take the shootuout baring any unfortunate issues...I also think that the VT60 will beat out the F8500 in black and contrast......

quote]

Isn't the shootout's sets calibrated to some known dark room light level? If true, I don't see the Samsung F8500 having a chance to win, since its CR is already lower than a VT50. Its strength seems to be brightness, but they might be moot if the shootout is done like last year.

Yes all sets are calibrated as close as possible to the same standard as far as I can remember, I dont remember the ftL number howerver from last year. I believe they do go through each set and show its avaialble options\settings it may get showcased, but right now that is an unknown.....
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Well Panasonic thread turns into sammy boys festival...nothing new...always the same people
ZT60 will WIN the Shootout smile.gif And i returned to post in may 13 only to see the people who talks about F8500 continue...maybe they will say: oh the shootout is biased...and YES Katzmaier never talks about "Brightness pops"...

thanks for the laugh I appreciate it....."Sammy boys" when myself and Ken havent made a decision on what TV to buy and are looking at the VT\ZT as well, well if anything the rampant "Panny Boys" are pushing me towards getting a Samsung....BTW if Im a so called sammy Boy then why have I suggested people wait for the VT\ZT recommended the Panasonic to people looking at Samsung, shoot I have told people to look at the Panasoincs more than ANY Samsung.....Guess its just some weird sort of mind game....

If one does not SEE pops one can not talk about them....For instance in their original reviews, IR does not get talked about for Panasonics last year, so I guess we should say that whomever did those reviews is biased towards Panasonic since they didnt test for IR???? you can see from reports just from reading the F8500 not everyone sees them and we are trying to figure out what triggers them (settings) etc....

Ive even said the ZT60 will most likely win the shootout followeed by the Vt60, becasue I know what the people who go to the events favor......Could there be a surprise? sure, but right now I ahve a feeling that Panasonic will come in 1 and 2, but I guess Im just a Sammy boy trying to trick you......

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heheh @ sammy boys festival (not pointing any fingers, I just chuckled at the descript biggrin.gif).

you arent the only one wink.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #462 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 07:41 AM
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Are Sammy or Panny buyers more likely to be considered videophile "purists"? Or is a generalization not applicable?

I hate to attempt an analogy to two channel audio (stereo), but there are those who are accustomed to an "over-processed" sound (and especially boomy bass) who simply aren't going to appreciate hi-end fidelity. Does the same apply to video?

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post #463 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 08:00 AM
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Ken, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe on the xt50 series sets, lowering the sharpness to 0 actually produces a sharper image. Additionally, why would you not test the Panny in THX night/dark room settings? I understand lighting probably wasn't ideal, but I believe the Samsung's best mode is the movie mode, whereas the Panny's best mode is certainly not THX bright room. It seems like if you wanted to get a more accurate comparison of these (non-calibrated) sets you would have viewed the VT60 in THX night mode.

Just my .02
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post #464 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Are Sammy or Panny buyers more likely to be considered videophile "purists"? Or is a generalization not applicable?

I hate to attempt an analogy to two channel audio (stereo), but there are those who are accustomed to an "over-processed" sound (and especially boomy bass) who simply aren't going to appreciate hi-end fidelity. Does the same apply to video?

It doesnt apply here since each set can be calibrated and look "very close" while each set DOES handle processing differently, it mostly shows up when viewing NON blu-ray material........You can't fit everyone into a "square or hole" as you are trying to do......Each set has its merits and has pluses\minuses that may entice a certain owner to buy that set......

Of course you will ahve people that are fans of each set saying that the other is xyz.......

The differences become smaller when you are in the top end sets, the general population hwoever dont really care and buy whats on sale or what catches thier eye in the store. They will probably never really appreciate a calibrated set so they see no need to spend thousands on a TV when they can get a picture they like for so much less......Even when they get a high end TV they may not take it out of the mode it defaults to.......
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post #465 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by jch1 View Post

Ken, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe on the xt50 series sets, lowering the sharpness to 0 actually produces a sharper image. Additionally, why would you not test the Panny in THX night/dark room settings? I understand lighting probably wasn't ideal, but I believe the Samsung's best mode is the movie mode, whereas the Panny's best mode is certainly not THX bright room. It seems like if you wanted to get a more accurate comparison of these (non-calibrated) sets you would have viewed the VT60 in THX night mode.

Just my .02


I think he was testing how each set would react in a "bright room" environment....since neither was calibrated though it is going to be hard to make any difinitive conclusions until they are side by side AND calibrated....
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post #466 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by skoor View Post

Only within the plasma category are Samsung and Panasonic considered top sets. LG is a distant third. And only a rough split, but Samsung plasma buyers tend to put more emphasis on brightness (and possible sharpness) and Panasonic buyers emphasis the MLL. But these are really broad generalizations.

The holy grail is a set that can do it all.

No one like pops, IR or line bleed.

Id love a set that does it all wink.gif dont care who it comes from smile.gif

I think we'll be waiting for OLED for that to happen though frown.gif
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post #467 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 08:34 AM
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I don't even trust my own eyes at best buy wink.gif
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post #468 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by skoor View Post

I think his observations were at best inconclusive and possible a little biased, since he was oblivious focusing on the brightness attribute- not a balanced picture. It is well-know the THX Bright setting is not optimal.

But the real crux is that the both set were not calibrated, so the manufactures defaults might emphasis a significant amount of video processing differences. I just saw on a UK forum a picture showing line bleed. It just happen to be using a calibrated Kuro vs a yet to be calibrated VT60. The VT60 picture make the Kuro look like a fuzz ball. The calibrator commented it was only because the VT50 was still at the factory defaults. Absolutely no claim the VT60 picture was sharper then the Kuro. It is very possible the differences Ken notes might be similar. Only a formal, controlled test will tell.

I agree the conttrolled test will tell jsut as Ken said himself wink.gif hes still waiting for the shootuout so "bias" doesnt really play into it, as with me the VT and if it blows my sicks off the ZT are still in contention. Although the ZT becasue of the tiered rollout has already taken a hit in my purchasing checklist.....I wonder if Ken would still be biased if he ends up with a ZT or VT? biggrin.gif

I should note however that any personal review\observation will always have a tinge of being biased, well becasue you are looking for\at attributes that will appeal to you in your home, the more reports, observatiosn we ahve from people the better IMO that way we can get a better overall picture of how sets perform...
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post #469 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 09:45 AM
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You think that he's a Panny fanboy?
I think everyone knows cnet tends to lean towards Panasonic. Granted. I tend to agree with their reviews. But after reading then for years it's easy to notice they prefer apple and Panasonic. Lets not forget what happened at CES year.
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post #470 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

he should have used multi quote, but your post was in response to someone who thought they wouldnt the the 2K they would want for the TV, you said:
Juke responded with what you quoted....It was a continuation of the conversation wink.gif
Correct.
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post #471 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 11:37 AM
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I think everyone knows cnet tends to lean towards Panasonic. Granted. I tend to agree with their reviews. But after reading then for years it's easy to notice they prefer apple and Panasonic. Lets not forget what happened at CES year.

I prefer apple and Panasonic too... b/c they tend to make BETTER products. I guess I have a bias against inferior products.
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post #472 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 11:49 AM
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I prefer apple and Panasonic too... b/c they tend to make BETTER products. I guess I have a bias against inferior products.

you might actually be right. Everything in my household has pretty much been samsung for the last decade since they were always rock solid and they didn't tend to make me pay for what I considered to be superfluos bells n whistles, but that's been changing recently in my household.
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post #473 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

you arent the only one wink.gifbiggrin.gif

You missed the test don't you? CNET Burn in TEST (Search on google)
And i don't enter on every panasonic thread to talk about F8500...i think it will be off topic...that's why i left F8500 thread...to me was ok, but not that good...i really think that will survive the hype and beat all Pannys...but in EU it doesn't...time will tell in NA. But that's all...sorry for the off topic...This is a Panasonic Thread and i talk about samsung...

If you don't see a brightness pops good for you...for me was a nightmare...play PES 2012 or FIFA 12 i don't buy that again.
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post #474 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 12:52 PM
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You missed the test don't you? CNET Burn in TEST (Search on google)
And i don't enter on every panasonic thread to talk about F8500...i think it will be off topic...that's why i left F8500 thread...to me was ok, but not that good...i really think that will survive the hype and beat all Pannys...but in EU it doesn't...time will tell in NA. But that's all...sorry for the off topic...This is a Panasonic Thread and i talk about samsung...

If you don't see a brightness pops good for you...for me was a nightmare...play PES 2012 or FIFA 12 i don't buy that again.

Actually no I didnt, BUT thosee tests were absent of mention in the review of the 2013 set, so if we are being fair he should have mentioned those no? unless that is he didnt experience anything to mention it.

As far as always talking about teh F8500 that is not the case, maybe you always come in when its being mentioned, but that is FAR FAR FAR form the case.

The reason Ken mentions both? hes one of the very few that as seen the VT60, the ZT60 AND the F8500 so he is able to give his view based on what he has seen (he always adds IMO).......

Im sure once the ZT60 and the VT60 get released and in teh ccase of the Vt60 more widely owned and seen there will be more comparison talk, heck Ken has talked about the ZT, Kuro, Elite, Sony 950 all in the 8500 no one had an issue with it, as long as you are not blinded by brand loyalty there is no harm with comparison talk.....

Lets face it until this set gets released and or reviewed this thread would be pretty dead besides people talking about releases dates......

as far as not seeing them I said I didnt see them on the set I saw, could I see them with a different setting or on a different set, for sure, but I havent had that chance. for your own personal experience I would say as I have said to others IN the F8500 the Panasoinc sets usually handle ABL better so try them out. It seems you have found a brand you like and that suits you well, in the end thats all that matters.....
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post #475 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 01:11 PM
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I don't have brand loyalty...i have a microwave samsung, a LED Samsung, a recently bought refrigerator Samsung...but if you think that i have brand loyalty, what can i do? I don't buy things the need fix or never fixed...and that was the case with samsung tv...
About Ken i respect his opinions but he likes brightness and i prefer to take opinions like another guys that see both and say that VT60 is better because that guy is a little more objective...(And has a sammy tv).
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post #476 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 01:11 PM
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I prefer apple and Panasonic too... b/c they tend to make BETTER products. I guess I have a bias against inferior products.
Your missing the point...
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post #477 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 01:16 PM
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Your missing the point...

Actually I think it is you who missed MY point. You say that CNET seems biased because they praise Panasonic and Apple more-so than other brands, which is true. But how else are they supposed to rate continually BETTER products (at least Plasma for Panasonic). See their reviews of the Panny LCDs in the past year (which are universally considered to have not been that great) as indication that they don't automatically praise everything Panasonic makes.

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post #478 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 01:21 PM
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I don't have brand loyalty...i have a microwave samsung, a LED Samsung, a recently bought refrigerator Samsung...but if you think that i have brand loyalty, what can i do? I don't buy things the need fix or never fixed...and that was the case with samsung tv...
About Ken i respect his opinions but he likes brightness and i prefer to take opinions like another guys that see both and say that VT60 is better because that guy is a little more objective...(And has a sammy tv).

+1

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post #479 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 01:35 PM
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I have a Samsung Galaxy S (cellphone) and a Samsung Tablet. I do have a bias against Apple, but I feel that it is justified. I wouldn't buy anything from Panny that comes to mind except for a plasma and that's because they offer the best picture quality for the price. I recommend Panny plasma to anyone since they come in several sizes and price ranges.

There is little chance that Samsung can all of a sudden become the king of plasma. Maybe next year? The bias against Panasonic is fairly obvious. I do wonder if anyone actually believes that the F8500 can beat the VT60 (or maybe even the ST60) all around? Nevermind the ZT60, which will be a total fail if it's not the best consumer plasma ever. An unbiased observation would factor in the superiority of Panny lately. Only a fanboy could ignore this.

HT 3.1: Panny BDT 220 | 60" Panny VT60 | Marantz AV7005 | Focal CMS50 (L/R), CMS40 & CMS Sub

Stereo system: Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 tube line level | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III
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post #480 of 1309 Old 04-17-2013, 01:36 PM
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This thread is getting ridiculous. Can't we just talk about TVs and compare them against competitors?
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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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Panasonic Viera Tc P65zt60 65 Inch Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Viera Tc P60zt60 60 Inch Plasma Tv
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