Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 106 - AVS Forum
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post #3151 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 09:22 AM
 
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How do you guys feel the S60/64 handles Blu Ray content? And as far as blacks I know
They are not going to be like the ST60 but are they still inky nice blacks? This TV seems to be what I need for gaming but I'm very picky with my blu ray content. Hoping this TV is still pleasing...any posterization? Just want to know issues with blu rays cuz if there are alot ill just go 50St60 and call it a day
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post #3152 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by SeLfMaDe111985 View Post

How do you guys feel the S60/64 handles Blu Ray content? And as far as blacks I know
They are not going to be like the ST60 but are they still inky nice blacks? This TV seems to be what I need for gaming but I'm very picky with my blu ray content. Hoping this TV is still pleasing...any posterization? Just want to know issues with blu rays cuz if there are alot ill just go 50St60 and call it a day

Superbly. Yes they are inky and close to the ST60. You may see some posterization depending on the source but it's not something that has plagued me and I have alot of blu-rays and watch alot of HD and even some SD content.

I of course have the benefit of having my set calibrated so that may be why I love the PQ. (I also loved the PQ of my previous 2010 42" S2 but that one had the floating black levels issue which this 2013 model thankfully doesn't have.)

Sony 32" EX400 calibrated settings
Panasonic 50" S60 calibrated settings
HTPC/Sony S5100 to Sony HT-CT660 to Panasonic 55" VT60, Sony 32" EX400, Panasonic 50" S60
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post #3153 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 10:33 AM
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I am starting to adjust to a Warm2 picture. Fairchild, why is this considered by experts to be the most accurate color temp?
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post #3154 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 10:46 AM
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It really varies from TV to TV (usually model lines, not same exact TV model/size), but usually the warmer presets are closer to 6500k/D65 calibration standard for the grayscale. Some sets are actually closer to it in the Warm1 preset, and as such that would be the preferred preset to use for that particular set. Generally when you are going to calibrate, you leave everything at mostly stocks (aside from maybe setting the brightness and calibration) then you do a grayscale run and see how close mode you have selected is to 6500k temperature.
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Sony 32" EX400 calibrated settings
Panasonic 50" S60 calibrated settings
HTPC/Sony S5100 to Sony HT-CT660 to Panasonic 55" VT60, Sony 32" EX400, Panasonic 50" S60
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post #3155 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ToonMasterTim View Post

I went back to Sam's last night and the S64 is next to a Samsung F4000 series, not a Panasonic U series, so sorry for that mistake. But HHGreg does have the S60 next to the ST60 and so my comments there are accurate. So looking at the S64 in Sam's last night compared to the Samsung, a few things were clear. 1) The Samsung did not fare well under the lights, as has been noted about at least some of the Samsung plasma reviews; blacks looked gray and washed out. 2) The Samsung is brighter, even with the S64's brightness at 100 in Vivid mode. 3) The S64 handles reflections better than the Samsung. 4) The S64 will still show some reflections, just like practically every other TV out there, but I don't know that it is any worse than current LED/LCD's. However, the LCD's can get considerably brighter.

Honestly, now I am undecided on the S64. My concern is that it simply may not be bright enough. As I mentioned before, I had a Panasonic plasma years ago and it was almost impossible to enjoy TV during the daytime without closing the curtains. I'll probably just have to buy one of these monsters from Sam's and bring it home to try it, honestly. They have a 90 day return policy, so that would provide a good evaluation period. The other thing that concerns me is line bleeding. I've just recently become aware of the issue and I would find it incredibly distracting. Perhaps it doesn't occur all the time, but I think I would constantly be looking for it, and on a 65" set, it might be difficult to miss. For anyone who has bought the S64 or the ST60, what are your thoughts on bright room viewing and line bleeding?

I only have mini-blinds over my windows, but keep them down during the daytime to block the heat and I also don't like to live in a fishbowl. They still let in plenty of light, especially with the afternoon sun since they are mostly on my western wall going up to the vaulted 2nd floor ceiling and the high altitude 300 days/year of bright sunshine in Denver is the brightest sun I've lived in other than searing Phoenix. The S64 is plenty bright for me. I can't comment on it with the windows completely uncovered, however. Do you at least keep your shades drawn but curtains open when viewing? The last time I lived in a place where the neighbors were far enough or blocked by trees to have privacy without drawing the window curtains or shades was the house I grew up in almost 30 years ago.

I haven't noticed line bleeding. I have noticed some dithering close up, but mainly with SD content, not HD. Posterization would be my only complaint with this TV, and that went away when I switched from Standard to Cinema mode. The only time I've noticed any posterization since was during the Miss USA Pageant - I figure it was due to the unusual nighttime soap opera type lighting and heavy makeup.

I went over budget by 50% ($500), buying the 65S64, so the ST60 was not even in my sight especially with people reporting it costing $1000 more. I thought $1500 was kind of pricey for a TV in 2013 when the competing 60" models were under $1000 (LG & Samsung and even the 60U50 was only $700!). Yeah, I paid $2000 for my 34" Sony XBR800 CRT in 2003, but that was 10 years ago and flat screen TVs were $5000+. If you've got $2500 to blow on a TV and think the PQ improvement is worth an extra $1000, go for it. I'm not sure how much more aggressive the AR filter is in the ST60 than the S64.
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post #3156 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

The S64 is plenty bright for me. I can't comment on it with the windows completely uncovered, however. Do you at least keep your shades drawn but curtains open when viewing? The last time I lived in a place where the neighbors were far enough or blocked by trees to have privacy without drawing the window curtains or shades was the house I grew up in almost 30 years ago.

We like to leave the east side windows open. They face into the backyard and I'm not concerned about neighbors looking in on us (the fenced yard helps). If the shades are down the reflections can be worse because you see a big white blotch reflecting onto the screen of our LED, whereas otherwise you may see a reflection of some things, but some of those reflections are dark (the sky, grass, the fence, etc.).

I'm glad to hear you're not noticing line bleeding (yet). Plasma gets all of the accolades, and I want to love it, but I'm gun-shy after having had one and been underwhelmed, even if it was years ago. Maybe this isn't my year and next year some improvements will be made to tip the decision. I like the price and design of the S64, although, I don't like the non-swiveling plastic stand. The thought of having a very large HDTV in my living room is calling my name though. If I don't go with the S64 I think I'll plop down money on the Vizio M series. CNET seems to like both sets a lot. Sure you can get better pictures/features, but only if you spend a lot more money, and I don't have that in my budget.
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post #3157 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 11:49 AM
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Any black level meas for the S60/S64?
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post #3158 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 12:53 PM
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I should note that any motion blur I was talking about on my S64 appears to be dithering strengthening. From farther away the image doesn't appear to blur as much. It just kind of softens a little. This is mostly noticeable during 2D games, and isn't the kind of major smearing you'd expect from an LCD. I believe it's simply the dithering looking more apparent when things are in motion.
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post #3159 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Jorsher View Post

The delivery person that installed my stand laid it down on the box on the front of the panel. Not sure if this is "bad" but it's working fine. I would have preferred that he left the panel sitting upright in the box, set the stand up, then set the TV on the stand -- but I try to stay out of people's way when they're doing their job even if I completely disagree. Sigh. Yes, you can, at least on the ST50, assemble the stand then set the TV on it.

People are too worried about this. The warning applies to transportation and long term storage, you aren't going to do any damage to your set simply laying it down to attach a stand or some mounting brackets. Not only that, but I do believe the manual itself even tells you to lay the set down flat on a soft blanket or something to attach the sand (not 100% but I do remember reading this).

At the end of the day, if laying it down like that breaks your set it is doing you a favor, as the glass was structurally unsound and would have broken eventually anyway.
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post #3160 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ToonMasterTim View Post

We like to leave the east side windows open. They face into the backyard and I'm not concerned about neighbors looking in on us (the fenced yard helps). If the shades are down the reflections can be worse because you see a big white blotch reflecting onto the screen of our LED, whereas otherwise you may see a reflection of some things, but some of those reflections are dark (the sky, grass, the fence, etc.).

I'm glad to hear you're not noticing line bleeding (yet). Plasma gets all of the accolades, and I want to love it, but I'm gun-shy after having had one and been underwhelmed, even if it was years ago. Maybe this isn't my year and next year some improvements will be made to tip the decision. I like the price and design of the S64, although, I don't like the non-swiveling plastic stand. The thought of having a very large HDTV in my living room is calling my name though. If I don't go with the S64 I think I'll plop down money on the Vizio M series. CNET seems to like both sets a lot. Sure you can get better pictures/features, but only if you spend a lot more money, and I don't have that in my budget.

You need to make a decision, do you want picture quality or brightness. For the 2013 HDTV shootout when they did their picture quality testing to decide a winner they turned off the LCD TV's and stated "they're not even close"

This years Panasonic plasma are some of the best displays EVER. There's no point in waiting for next years models, the 2013 models are that good

ZT= New Reference Panel
ST= Best Bang for the buck (Picture quality, great black filter for daytime viewing)
S = Best Value
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post #3161 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ToonMasterTim View Post

We like to leave the east side windows open. They face into the backyard and I'm not concerned about neighbors looking in on us (the fenced yard helps). If the shades are down the reflections can be worse because you see a big white blotch reflecting onto the screen of our LED, whereas otherwise you may see a reflection of some things, but some of those reflections are dark (the sky, grass, the fence, etc.).

I'm glad to hear you're not noticing line bleeding (yet). Plasma gets all of the accolades, and I want to love it, but I'm gun-shy after having had one and been underwhelmed, even if it was years ago. Maybe this isn't my year and next year some improvements will be made to tip the decision. I like the price and design of the S64, although, I don't like the non-swiveling plastic stand. The thought of having a very large HDTV in my living room is calling my name though. If I don't go with the S64 I think I'll plop down money on the Vizio M series. CNET seems to like both sets a lot. Sure you can get better pictures/features, but only if you spend a lot more money, and I don't have that in my budget.

Having panasonic plasmas since 2007, it was hard adjusting to my new LCD-LED set, the w900a. While the picture quality ia excellent and it has a very punchy image, its no plasma. I think if you were to get a 2013 plasma you would never turn back. Looking at them in the stores, its insane how cheap they have become in price, while quality has been sky rocketing. In fact, you don't need to spend more to get better picture quality than the vizio M series, you need to spend less. You can get the panasonic S60/S64 that will blow it out of the water. My plasmas have always had windows glaring on them and ive never had a problem with reflections. As far as reflections, the LED-LCD sets are no better then even the S60 which has no AG coating. My w900a bothers me more in reflections then any plasma ive had.
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post #3162 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by PogueSquadron View Post

I should note that any motion blur I was talking about on my S64 appears to be dithering strengthening. From farther away the image doesn't appear to blur as much. It just kind of softens a little. This is mostly noticeable during 2D games, and isn't the kind of major smearing you'd expect from an LCD. I believe it's simply the dithering looking more apparent when things are in motion.

It is a Panasonic thing. My 42px75 and my old 54g10/v10 all did it as well. It is part of how Panasonic produces their Dither. (Samsung uses a more static Dither for comparison, it has it's quirks as well)

Looking up the rated power draw, it is hard to believe that my 2007 42px75 (a 1024:768 model) is rated at a much higher power draw as the 65s60. (387w vs 345w max draw) very impressive.

If the s64 was confirmed to have the same input lag as the s60 I might jump on one for a gaming display...

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post #3163 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 05:32 PM
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It has the same input lag as the S60. It is the exact same panel as the S60, except S64 has the ST60 antireflective coating.
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post #3164 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 06:29 PM
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It has the same input lag as the S60. It is the exact same panel as the S60, except S64 has the ST60 antireflective coating.

Different models using the same screen can still have different lag, I have seen it several times over the years, it is why I am asking. In theory they should be the same, but I would rather know for sure.

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post #3165 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 06:44 PM
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Different models using the same screen can still have different lag, I have seen it several times over the years, it is why I am asking. In theory they should be the same, but I would rather know for sure.

demand DisplayLag.com to do a Leo B test on it. tongue.gif
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post #3166 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Different models using the same screen can still have different lag, I have seen it several times over the years.

Any proof of this claim? Because otherwise I'm calling out your BS out.

These are the same panels, people have said they have the same minimal lag, the only difference is that they add a AR filter to the S64 so it looks better under the harsher store lighting.
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post #3167 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 07:01 PM
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Different models using the same screen can still have different lag, I have seen it several times over the years, it is why I am asking. In theory they should be the same, but I would rather know for sure.

They are the exact same panel, according to Panasonic. The ONLY difference is antireflective coating has been added. That's it. Period.
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post #3168 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 07:01 PM
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They are the exact same panel, according to Panasonic. The ONLY difference is antireflective coating has been added. That's it. Period.

Also, I own both panels. They perform exactly the same.
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post #3169 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by shenaniganz08 View Post

Any proof of this claim? Because otherwise I'm calling out your BS out.

These are the same panels, people have said they have the same minimal lag, the only difference is that they add a AR filter to the S64 so it looks better under the harsher store lighting.

The display means little for lag, it is all about the firmware, image processor, and just how much they process the image before sending it out. There are a lot of factors that influence lag, and there has been numerous examples of this in past Panasonic TVs (and every other brand for that matter)

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post #3170 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 07:17 PM
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People are too worried about this. The warning applies to transportation and long term storage, you aren't going to do any damage to your set simply laying it down to attach a stand or some mounting brackets. Not only that, but I do believe the manual itself even tells you to lay the set down flat on a soft blanket or something to attach the sand (not 100% but I do remember reading this).

At the end of the day, if laying it down like that breaks your set it is doing you a favor, as the glass was structurally unsound and would have broken eventually anyway.

Laying it down is how people end up with the TV uneven on the stand. The stand screws need to be tight to minimize TV sway, applying pressure to the TV to tighten the screws while it's laying down is not a good thing. The TV should be standing up when the stand is attached.
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post #3171 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

If the s64 was confirmed to have the same input lag as the s60 I might jump on one for a gaming display...

AVJ over at HDJ said the S64 is an S60 with the ST60's AR Filter added. Considering he designed the TVs, i'd say that's confirmation enough wink.gif

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post #3172 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 07:37 PM
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AVJ over at HDJ said the S64 is an S60 with the ST60's AR Filter added. Considering he designed the TVs, i'd say that's confirmation enough wink.gif

Sounds good. I'll start watching stock levels at Sams and Costco. Got a link to some of his write ups? I love to read technical breakdowns.

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post #3173 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by samijubal View Post

Laying it down is how people end up with the TV uneven on the stand. The stand screws need to be tight to minimize TV sway, applying pressure to the TV to tighten the screws while it's laying down is not a good thing. The TV should be standing up when the stand is attached.

Actually lowering it onto the stand also resulted in the TV being crooked for several of us last year. We had to loosen the screws and nudge the TV till it was level, then tighten them and re-check. When i loosened my four screws, the TV can be leaned one way or the other quite a bit and it took a few tries before was able to get mine perfectly level. Over the years i have installed the stand with the TVs in various positions - such as on it's side leaning against a wall, upside with a helper holding it upright, and even upside down leaning against a couch - but most of the time i (or we) just lower it onto the stand and make sure the TV is level before fully tightening the screws. I never have and never will lay a TV down to install the stand - too worried about damaging the bezel or AR coating wink.gif

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post #3174 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 07:50 PM
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The munual clearly shows the TV vertical when attaching to the stand. Panasonic would NEVER tell you to lay the TV flat to attach the stand.
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post #3175 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by samijubal View Post

The munual clearly shows the TV vertical when attaching to the stand. Panasonic would NEVER tell you to lay the TV flat to attach the stand.

Why are you making such a big deal about this ?

I lied my monitor face up on the bed, put the base on, hand tightened the screws, then put the TV on level surface and then finally tightened all 4 screws

Its one thing to transport the television on its flat side (up and down motion from bumps in the road) but putting it on its side for only a minute on a soft surface is not going to damage it.
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post #3176 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 09:33 PM
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I transported the PN64F5500 flat for 50 miles on bumpy roads, and I mean really bumpy roads. It was perfectly fine when I took it out of the box. When I returned it, I had to drive another 50 miles over the same bumpy roads. It was again perfectly fine when I took it out of the box. Myth debunked.
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post #3177 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 09:40 PM
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You just got lucky. One anecdotal account of having transported a unit in a risky manner without it breaking, proves nothing. The manufacturers warn against doing what you said you did, for a very good reason. More panels are more likely to break than they would if the were not transported lying flat.
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post #3178 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post

I transported the PN64F5500 flat for 50 miles on bumpy roads, and I mean really bumpy roads. It was perfectly fine when I took it out of the box. When I returned it, I had to drive another 50 miles over the same bumpy roads. It was again perfectly fine when I took it out of the box. Myth debunked.

Yeah no... Look I'm all for people lying it down for a minute or two to put the base on, but its a bad idea to transport a plasma TV or any glass horizontally.

There is a reason Glass is stored/shipped/transported vertically

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post #3179 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by shenaniganz08 View Post

Why are you making such a big deal about this ?

This is why: Not only that, but I do believe the manual itself even tells you to lay the set down flat on a soft blanket or something to attach the sand (not 100% but I do remember reading this).

Its not true and is stupid. The TV should be vertical to attach to the stand like the manual clearly shows. If you people want to take a chance with your new TV then go ahead but don't be telling people it's fine or the way it's supposed to be done. Just because a few people got away with laying the TV flat doesn't mean it's safe and there isn't a much higher possibility of damaging the TV.
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post #3180 of 7286 Old 08-09-2013, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

Discover card (which Sam's in-store only accepts) offers an extra year warranty, so you can end up with 5 years that way. I chose Sam's over Costco because Discover was offering $100 cash back on $1500 of purchases when I bought mine, so I saved at least $100 over Costco. I simply applied the $100 to my bill so it was that much less to pay.
Huh, I may have to consider that. Thanks.
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