Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 148 - AVS Forum
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post #4411 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

the 1080p pixel direct setting should be left off

Why? I seem to be getting the best picture and color with it on (and the Blu-ray player set to output 4:4:4).

BTW, it's really bizarre that the S790 would sharpen the image in converting 1080/24 content to output to 1080/60 to the TV. Since the TV does the same, I figure it didn't matter, or if anything it was better to have the player do it because the TV would have less processing before outputting the image.
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post #4412 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Mindman View Post

So I've done some research in this thread about the snapping/popping sound that comes from this TV (P50S60), and I guess I'm not alone with this issue. Has anyone had this TV long enough to know if this issue dissipates over time at all? I'm still within my return period and want to know if it clears itself up. Even though it doesn't affect picture, something moving around inside the cabinet doesn't put me at ease with this TV...

Yes, you're not alone. My 50S60 has 'popped' quite a bit in the first few days I've had it (both while on and after I've turned it off). If I recall, my 50ST50 did as well. I'm not worried, as I suspect it's part of the internal electronics seating break-in process. No biggie, and expect it to eventually mostly go away.

Edit: If everything is working as it should, I would definitely recommend not returning it because of the 'popping'.
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post #4413 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 10:19 AM
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I had heard similar noises on a Samsung LED-LCD and I got the following response:

Samsung televisions use a combination of metal and plastic material in their sets. These materials are subject to expansion and contraction due to temperature changes. With expansion or contraction you may occasionally hear creaking, popping, or cracking. These noises are completely harmless and will not affect your TV's operation or damage the unit.
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post #4414 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

Why? I seem to be getting the best picture and color with it on (and the Blu-ray player set to output 4:4:4).

BTW, it's really bizarre that the S790 would sharpen the image in converting 1080/24 content to output to 1080/60 to the TV. Since the TV does the same, I figure it didn't matter, or if anything it was better to have the player do it because the TV would have less processing before outputting the image.

can't remember the exact reasons why, but the professional calibrators on this forum had mentioned this... also, that setting is for native YCbCr 4:4:4 content but BDs/DVDs use YCbCr 4:2:0... there is no native YCbCr 4:4:4 content AFAIK
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post #4415 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Any time you add extra processing it CAN weaken the signal.

I was hoping that there is no extra processing, just a straight pass-through. I was testing with music, so I did not notice that...
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Also, the tv is downconverting the signal from 5.1 to 2.0. That may have something to do with it.
No there is no way to change it.

Damn! You are right! This is dumb, why do they do this? What is wrong with just copying the bytes from the input to the output without modification? This should be an option at least.
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Why would you want to? Just stop using the tv optical for your XBox.

I am going to run out of digital inputs on my amp when the XBOne arrives in November. Having to switch input sources at two places (TV, amp) is a broken user experience as in the vast majority of cases I want to listen to what I am watching.

Anyways, thanks for your answer, seems like I am out of luck.
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post #4416 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

can't remember the exact reasons why, but the professional calibrators on this forum had mentioned this...

I've not heard that. I'd be curious as to what the reason is.
Quote:
also, that setting is for native YCbCr 4:4:4 content but BDs/DVDs use YCbCr 4:2:0... there is no native YCbCr 4:4:4 content AFAIK

I know. The player converts native 4:2:0 blu-ray content into 4:4:4 and outputs it to the TV. How good the conversion is depends on the player I believe. How do you have yours set up? On my ST50, I had the player output 4:2:2 because it looked best, even though the TV accepted a signal at 4:4:4 (though it couldn't display it directly like the S60).
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post #4417 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I had heard similar noises on a Samsung LED-LCD and I got the following response:

Samsung televisions use a combination of metal and plastic material in their sets. These materials are subject to expansion and contraction due to temperature changes. With expansion or contraction you may occasionally hear creaking, popping, or cracking. These noises are completely harmless and will not affect your TV's operation or damage the unit.

True, but it can be a real annoyance when it's happening too frequently and going on too long, as it was on the S60 I had for a few weeks. I've been following the threads since they were started, and I believe I was the first to comment on this:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1461177/official-panasonic-s60-series-discussion-thread/450#post_23194622

I ended up returning the S60 due to the excessive popping, the fact it didn't help with the rainbow effect I observed on the first ST60, and I replaced it with another ST60, which performed like the first one I had, good and bad. There have been lots of comments on S60s popping since my post, and I can't recall any similar complaints about the ST60 or higher TVs. I remember loosening/tightening screws both internal and external didn't help, which was about all I was going to try to fix it. Some say it gets better... And I think someone started a thread on trying to eliminate it...
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post #4418 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

I've not heard that. I'd be curious as to what the reason is.
I know. The player converts native 4:2:0 blu-ray content into 4:4:4 and outputs it to the TV. How good the conversion is depends on the player I believe. How do you have yours set up? On my ST50, I had the player output 4:2:2 because it looked best, even though the TV accepted a signal at 4:4:4 (though it couldn't display it directly like the S60).

I use my PS3 as my BD player, which has two options: YCbCr 4:4:4 or RGB. There is no YCbCr 4:2:2 option. When I get my PS4, it will be my new BD player.
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post #4419 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

True, but it can be a real annoyance when it's happening too frequently and going on too long, as it was on the S60 I had for a few weeks. I've been following the threads since they were started, and I believe I was the first to comment on this:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1461177/official-panasonic-s60-series-discussion-thread/450#post_23194622

I ended up returning the S60 due to the excessive popping, the fact it didn't help with the rainbow effect I observed on the first ST60, and I replaced it with another ST60, which performed like the first one I had, good and bad. There have been lots of comments on S60s popping since my post, and I can't recall any similar complaints about the ST60 or higher TVs. I remember loosening/tightening screws both internal and external didn't help, which was about all I was going to try to fix it. Some say it gets better... And I think someone started a thread on trying to eliminate it...

if it helps, I got my 50" S60 on 9/29 and the popping/cracking noises have been getting less and less frequent and not as loud
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post #4420 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

I know. The player converts native 4:2:0 blu-ray content into 4:4:4 and outputs it to the TV. How good the conversion is depends on the player I believe. How do you have yours set up? On my ST50, I had the player output 4:2:2 because it looked best, even though the TV accepted a signal at 4:4:4 (though it couldn't display it directly like the S60).

Differences may be subtle. Spears and Munsil 2nd edition has a pattern and checklist you can print out to help make this decision:

http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/portfolio/choosing-a-color-space-2/
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post #4421 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 12:41 PM
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I did a little experiment to see if the panel brightness setting has any impact on MLL. The results showed exactly zero difference in MLL between Low, Mid, and High panel brightness.
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post #4422 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post


can't remember the exact reasons why, but the professional calibrators on this forum had mentioned this... also, that setting is for native YCbCr 4:4:4 content but BDs/DVDs use YCbCr 4:2:0... there is no native YCbCr 4:4:4 content AFAIK

I am confused about this chroma subsampling setting on the TV, what does it do? I thought chroma subsampling is a property of the incoming signal, and the TV should just display whatever it gets. Will this setting actually make the TV throw away chroma info? Why?

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post #4423 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Are you saying Cinema mode is best left at default contrast (85) or that going to 100 is fine in Cinema but not Custom? I'm using Cinema BTW.


I'm saying that you can set the contrast as high as 100% and you shouldn't experience any blooming in the Cinema mode. However, the actual setting should be based on your own personal preference.


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post #4424 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

I'm saying that you can set the contrast as high as 100% and you shouldn't experience any blooming in the Cinema mode. However, the actual setting should be based on your own personal preference.


Ian

ok, thanks for clarifying
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post #4425 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realsgy View Post

I am confused about this chroma subsampling setting on the TV, what does it do? I thought chroma subsampling is a property of the incoming signal, and the TV should just display whatever it gets. Will this setting actually make the TV throw away chroma info? Why?

you should ask Chad B in the calibration forum... I know he has mentioned more details about this in the past.
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post #4426 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by vlVlv View Post

And then I'll just have to tweak the picture again?

And can I watch things with different aspect ratios as long as it's not for more than a few hours at the time?

I changed to Cinema mode fairly early on since the PQ was much better than Standard or HT.

Use zoom settings to eliminate or avoid black bars in the first few hundred hours when aging the phosphors.
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post #4427 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by realsgy View Post

I am using Fairchild's settings and I love my S64's picture. Thanks for your hard work, Fairchild!

I noticed something strange with the digital output. I have my XBox directly connected to my amp's first optical input via optical, and to the TV via HDMI. The TV is connected to the second optical input of the amp.

Now the strange thing is that the volume of the sound is much lower when it is coming via the TV (second optical input) then when I switch to the direct route (first optical input) on my amp. How can this be? Why does the TV modify the digital signal? Has anyone else noticed this? Is there a way to change this?

Just curious, but why would you connect the xbox to the TV via hdmi, but get the audio to the receiver via optical? Will the amp not take hdmi input? I'm having to do some similar things righ now because my amp hdmi out died.
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post #4428 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

I changed to Cinema mode fairly early on since the PQ was much better than Standard or HT.

Use zoom settings to eliminate or avoid black bars in the first few hundred hours when aging the phosphors.

Anyone got some technical background on why the settings on one mode do not produce the exact same picture when applied to a different mode? eg, the recommendation seems to be to start with Cinema mode, and make adjustments to it, vs Home Theater or Custom. If the available settings are the same, what is different?
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post #4429 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 03:43 PM
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No, it is an old amp. I know that the ultimate solution is a modern receiver that has 4-8 HDMI inputs and has pass-through, but that purchase needs to wait

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post #4430 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jontyrees View Post

Anyone got some technical background on why the settings on one mode do not produce the exact same picture when applied to a different mode? eg, the recommendation seems to be to start with Cinema mode, and make adjustments to it, vs Home Theater or Custom. If the available settings are the same, what is different?


Each mode is calibrated differently by the manufacturer. Some changes can be made in the service menu by a trained technician and some can not. Cinema mode will give the most accurate picture since it is calibrated closest to ATSC specifications.


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post #4431 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 04:00 PM
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Hey, I'm looking at buying a TV set for PS4 - will be using it at 1 to 2 metres viewing distance. Looking at this S60

 

Is it worth getting with all the issues people are having in this thread?

 

Any chance someone could summarise the issues with this panel? Theres a looot of pages..

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post #4432 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 04:10 PM
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After viewing for a few days, I think the S60's 6144 steps of gradation may not completely transparent, or if it is - it's just barely. I think the ST60 and higher series might have a slight edge here. Given the black levels are so good and subsequently the contrast ratios so high, more steps are needed for optimum PQ.
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post #4433 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 05:44 PM
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BTW, I notice very little buzzing with my set. I think the ST50 I had prior buzzed a bit more. Overall, I'm very pleased and don't regret upgrading to the S60. I would have bought the 55", but it appears to be unofficially discontinued as its unavailable anywhere.
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post #4434 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 07:31 PM
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Well, first night of testing my new S60...

 

- I have a lot of buzz.  The sound is anoying right now.  The intensity of the sound change a lot, depending on the picture.  I know plasmas make such a sound, but it's pretty loud and I'm 9 feet away.

 

- Picture quality is just OK right now.  My girlfriend cheap Samsung (LED) looks clearer and better.  

 

Am I alone?

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post #4435 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlVlv View Post

Well, first night of testing my new S60...

- I have a lot of buzz.  The sound is anoying right now.  The intensity of the sound change a lot, depending on the picture.  I know plasmas make such a sound, but it's pretty loud and I'm 9 feet away.

- Picture quality is just OK right now.  My girlfriend cheap Samsung (LED) looks clearer and better.  

Am I alone?

The set takes time to break in and look its best after necessary tweaking. Once you've done this, it should look much better than a Samsung LED.

Yes, all plasmas buzz. I sit about 7-8 feet from mine and I can hear it when the screen is bright and there is little to no sound. It doesn't bother me.
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post #4436 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 07:48 PM
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Aside from the black levels, does the s60 have relatively as nice of a picture as the st60? I'm leaning towards the s60 now based on lower input lag and lower price. I just want to make sure i'm happy with the picture. although i'm happy with my 2008 46" panasonic so i assume a new 60" S60 would look even better.
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post #4437 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlVlv View Post

Well, first night of testing my new S60...

- I have a lot of buzz.  The sound is anoying right now.  The intensity of the sound change a lot, depending on the picture.  I know plasmas make such a sound, but it's pretty loud and I'm 9 feet away.

- Picture quality is just OK right now.  My girlfriend cheap Samsung (LED) looks clearer and better.  

Am I alone?
If the buzzing annoys you from 9ft away return it.
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post #4438 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 07:55 PM
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Does the st60 have this same buzzing issue? I almost feel like I shouldn't read forums before I buy things, there is SO many complaints between this thread and the st60 thread that I don't even know which one to buy, if any at all.
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post #4439 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 07:56 PM
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post #4440 of 7067 Old 10-08-2013, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by svt2nv View Post

Does the st60 have this same buzzing issue? I almost feel like I shouldn't read forums before I buy things, there is SO many complaints between this thread and the st60 thread that I don't even know which one to buy, if any at all.
All plamas buzz to some extent. It varies from panel to panel. But if it buzzes loud enough to bother you then I suggest you return it.
Dont let all the complaints bother you. AVS members are a picky bunch and most people only post when they have a problem.
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