Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 154 - AVS Forum
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post #4591 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

But your PZ80U does have an AR Filter (which is even more "matte" like than the AR Filter used on the S64), so the S60 will be much more reflective and mirror like than your older model - especially on darker content.

Are you sure? I have the TH-42PZ80U and it doesn't fare any better under bright lights than my S60.
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post #4592 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Are you sure? I have the TH-42PZ80U and it doesn't fare any better under bright lights than my S60.


Randy is correct. Not sure how good the AR filter is, but depending on the design, many deal better with over head lighting then direct.


http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TH-42PZ80U?t=specs&support#tabs



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post #4593 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 09:23 AM
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Okay all the clubs around in my area are completely out of Panasonic Plasmas. I'm torn now. I have about $1,200 to spend and I'm worried the glare on the s60 will be annoying. Black levels and uniformity are really important to me. As is gaming, so the input lag on the ST60 throws that away. Any suggestions on what I should look at next? The p65s64 is what I really want but it just isn't available.
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post #4594 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by shadowinq View Post

Okay all the clubs around in my area are completely out of Panasonic Plasmas. I'm torn now. I have about $1,200 to spend and I'm worried the glare on the s60 will be annoying. Black levels and uniformity are really important to me. As is gaming, so the input lag on the ST60 throws that away. Any suggestions on what I should look at next? The p65s64 is what I really want but it just isn't available.

http://brandnewdealsusa.com/65-Panasonic-Plasma-1080P-600Hz-Smart-HD-TV-WiFi-TC-65PS64-P3204343.aspx

Just want to make sure you were aware they appear to be available here.
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post #4595 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 09:53 AM
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I worry about buying from a site like this that I can't return to easily. I think I'll just have to wait and see if the ST60 goes on sale.
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post #4596 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

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Originally Posted by svt2nv View Post

Can anyone tell me if the glare on the s60 is any WORSE than any older panasonic plasma from previous years without the AR filter? I have a 2008 th-46pz80u in my bedroom with big sliding glass doors to the right and it doesn't bug me, I want a tv for the other side of the same wall with comparable sized windows to IT'S side as well and i can't decide on s60 or st60. I really want the s60 for the lower input lag and if it's not WORSE than my other plasma than i don't think the glare will be an issue.

But your PZ80U does have an AR Filter (which is even more "matte" like than the AR Filter used on the S64), so the S60 will be much more reflective and mirror like than your older model - especially on darker content.

Ah, I wondered why there was no reflection on the TV. Also it might be because the photo was taken at the wrong sun angle - I don't see the rays hitting the TV - you'd think with a door or window that big, it would be terrible at the time of the day when the sun rays shine through the door towards the TV. Even on my 65S64, for a couple of hours in the afternoon, when the sun is at the angle directly towards my TV, I get some window reflections on my TV.
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post #4597 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 10:26 AM
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I've owned my 50s64 for about 6 weeks now. For the most part I am very pleased with it. However, I must admit that the motion blur during a football game is very disappointing. I only see motion blur on network nfl broadcasts but not on college or NFL games on ESPN/other cable networks. I have compared the networks from my antenna versus cable and the blur is similar on both... The motion blur is most noticeable during a replay. The blurring is mostly from the crowd as the camera pans quickly with some additional blurring of players. I probably should have bought the better ST60 panel but thought I might game on the S64. Tried it but found that I feel more immersed playing on a 24 inch PC monitor 2.5 ft away versus a 50 inch tv 8 feet away. Is there anything I can do?
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post #4598 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by shadowinq View Post

Okay all the clubs around in my area are completely out of Panasonic Plasmas. I'm torn now. I have about $1,200 to spend and I'm worried the glare on the s60 will be annoying. Black levels and uniformity are really important to me. As is gaming, so the input lag on the ST60 throws that away. Any suggestions on what I should look at next? The p65s64 is what I really want but it just isn't available.

Did you check both Sam's and Costco?
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post #4599 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by IDRick View Post

I've owned my 50s64 for about 6 weeks now. For the most part I am very pleased with it. However, I must admit that the motion blur during a football game is very disappointing. I only see motion blur on network nfl broadcasts but not on college or NFL games on ESPN/other cable networks. I have compared the networks from my antenna versus cable and the blur is similar on both... The motion blur is most noticeable during a replay. The blurring is mostly from the crowd as the camera pans quickly with some additional blurring of players.

I'm starting to wonder if the motion blur is the source rather than the plasma. Someone in my local OTA thread mentioned motion blur on the local NBC network to be worse than with CBS or FOX.

I've only noticed it with up-close player movement and especially with replays, but I'm pretty sure the replays are in the source rather than the TV as it's very exaggerated and seemed to remember observing that even on my old 34" CRT. I've observed live motion blur happen twice on NBC (Broncos season opener) and once on CBS (week 2), but have not noticed it on FOX. I'll watch carefully for it next time they broadcast on FOX ('skins game). The one Monday night ESPN game was simulcast on our local (former?) UPN network which is partnered with our local NBC network so I have no idea if that was 720p or 720p converted to 1080i...
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post #4600 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 11:16 AM
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Its highly likely the degree of motion blur is source dependent. Do you notice it on bluray?
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post #4601 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Its highly likely the degree of motion blur is source dependent. Do you notice it on bluray?

Not yet, but I only have 1 bluray disc and I still haven't had time to watch the whole movie.

Hence the username HDTimeshifter as 99.9% of my viewing is DVR'd cable content, most of which is local broadcast carried by cable.
The person in my local OTA thread complains that he notices it most with replays, which I'm almost certain is the source.
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post #4602 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 11:34 AM
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As far as motion blur, I was seeing that also, but watching the Sunday night NFL game there was no motion blur....I was impressed. Replays....every now and then but regular play was awesome.

I received my Spears and Munsil DVD today....as far as calibrating the S64....are there any limitations with this DVD?
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post #4603 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 11:36 AM
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Shadowing.....where are you located? My local Costco has a handfull of 50" S64's left.
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post #4604 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 11:54 AM
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Shadowing.....where are you located? My local Costco has a handfull of 50" S64's left.

I'm in Charlotte, looking for 60"+. I've settled on getting the ST60, however. 24-month 0% financing from Best Buy will make it easier to spend a little extra.
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post #4605 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 12:31 PM
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Cold and rainy here in Tulsa. Perfect day for some of this
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post #4606 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Its highly likely the degree of motion blur is source dependent. Do you notice it on bluray?

Agreed. Very likely the source. I'm on U-verse and the picture can often become a pixelated, muddy mess when there is panning or fast action. Even when they are showing the weather maps on the news when they pan around the meteorologist and the map turn into a blurry mess. It's been the case with every TV I have owned, LED and plasma, and even when I had Dish as a carrier. And so it drives me crazy when I hear talk of 4K when we can't get better quality 1080i/p now.
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post #4607 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

I'm starting to wonder if the motion blur is the source rather than the plasma. Someone in my local OTA thread mentioned motion blur on the local NBC network to be worse than with CBS or FOX.

I've only noticed it with up-close player movement and especially with replays, but I'm pretty sure the replays are in the source rather than the TV as it's very exaggerated and seemed to remember observing that even on my old 34" CRT. I've observed live motion blur happen twice on NBC (Broncos season opener) and once on CBS (week 2), but have not noticed it on FOX. I'll watch carefully for it next time they broadcast on FOX ('skins game). The one Monday night ESPN game was simulcast on our local (former?) UPN network which is partnered with our local NBC network so I have no idea if that was 720p or 720p converted to 1080i...

Pretty spot on, I think... I see it more on CBS and Fox, less common on NBC. In the past, our local Fox was a separate channel but this year it became a subchannel for our local CBS. Both networks are HD with CBS at 1080i and Fox at 720p. Good luck with your Broncos! I've been a fan of Peyton for many years, awesome player!
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post #4608 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 12:59 PM
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Cold and rainy here in Tulsa. Perfect day for some of this

How'd you know that is my drink of choice? biggrin.gif (Probably a good cure for motion blur - just to keep it OT.) wink.gif

We had thunder, hail, and rain this morning for rush hour! But it stopped before any flooding happened again.
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post #4609 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Its highly likely the degree of motion blur is source dependent. Do you notice it on bluray?

Agreed. Very likely the source. I'm on U-verse and the picture can often become a pixelated, muddy mess when there is panning or fast action. Even when they are showing the weather maps on the news when they pan around the meteorologist and the map turn into a blurry mess. It's been the case with every TV I have owned, LED and plasma, and even when I had Dish as a carrier. And so it drives me crazy when I hear talk of 4K when we can't get better quality 1080i/p now.

My 1080i broadcasts are pretty good. What kills me are the SD subchannels like 24 hour local news repeat and 24 hour weather from our local broadcasters and commercials that still have black bars. Fortunately Big Brother with black bars in HD (WTF?? confused.gif) is over and Survivor and Amazing Race have some pretty incredible HD footage.
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Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

My 1080i broadcasts are pretty good. What kills me are the SD subchannels like 24 hour local news repeat and 24 hour weather from our local broadcasters and commercials that still have black bars. Fortunately Big Brother with black bars in HD (WTF?? confused.gif) is over and Survivor and Amazing Race have some pretty incredible HD footage.

SD feed will always look like garbage and as for Big Brother, that show is a disgrace. It's been on the air for about a decade and they are still not filming it in full HD. I think it's the only show that it's not in full HD nowadays.

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post #4611 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 01:20 PM
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Agreed. Very likely the source. I'm on U-verse and the picture can often become a pixelated, muddy mess when there is panning or fast action. Even when they are showing the weather maps on the news when they pan around the meteorologist and the map turn into a blurry mess. It's been the case with every TV I have owned, LED and plasma, and even when I had Dish as a carrier. And so it drives me crazy when I hear talk of 4K when we can't get better quality 1080i/p now.


Time to get DIRECTV wink.gif



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Ooops! I thought I posted that in "cruising the avs forums intoxicated". Sorry all. Come check us out hdtimeshifter its where alcohol and A/V meet
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Time to get DIRECTV wink.gif



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Is it really any better? I had it years ago before I had an HDTV. I liked it but the rising costs drove us to other options. And at this point, once my 1-year contract with AT&T expires I may drop my TV package and keep the Internet and just watch online resources. I'm getting $40 off the regular price right now and I can't see paying full price for it.
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post #4614 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ToonMasterTim View Post

Agreed. Very likely the source. I'm on U-verse and the picture can often become a pixelated, muddy mess when there is panning or fast action. Even when they are showing the weather maps on the news when they pan around the meteorologist and the map turn into a blurry mess. It's been the case with every TV I have owned, LED and plasma, and even when I had Dish as a carrier. And so it drives me crazy when I hear talk of 4K when we can't get better quality 1080i/p now.

Time to get DIRECTV wink.gif

Satellite has even more compression than cable! confused.gif

Apparently it's the bit rates that our local channels are broadcasting at that is causing the motion blur. The channels with low bit rates have more and the ones with higher bit rates have less motion blur. Also the ones using their subchannels are transmitting at lower bit rates since they have to share bandwidth among all sub channels..
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post #4615 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

Satellite has even more compression than cable! confused.gif

Apparently it's the bit rates that our local channels are broadcasting at that is causing the motion blur. The channels with low bit rates have more and the ones with higher bit rates have less motion blur. Also the ones using their subchannels are transmitting at lower bit rates since they have to share bandwidth among all sub channels..


I have the same set as my brother in law who has Comcast and the picture quality from DTV is better on most channels. The problem with cable isn't necessary the bandwidth, but a hybrid system which uses a multitude of line taps and signal extenders to carry the video to your TV. Therefore, depending on how well maintained the system is, the distance to the main trunk, etc.. there can be a significant difference in over all picture quality. I do agree however, that the motion blur anomaly has to with bandwidth capacity, an issue BTW that I rarely experience with DTV.



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post #4616 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

Satellite has even more compression than cable! confused.gif

Apparently it's the bit rates that our local channels are broadcasting at that is causing the motion blur. The channels with low bit rates have more and the ones with higher bit rates have less motion blur. Also the ones using their subchannels are transmitting at lower bit rates since they have to share bandwidth among all sub channels..


I have the same set as my brother in law who has Comcast and the picture quality from DTV is better on most channels. The problem with cable isn't necessary the bandwidth, but a hybrid system which uses a multitude of line taps and signal extenders to carry the video to your TV. Therefore, depending on how well maintained the system is, the distance to the main trunk, etc.. there can be a significant difference in over all picture quality. I do agree however, that the motion blur anomaly has to with bandwidth capacity, an issue BTW that I rarely experience with DTV.

Bandwidth is also generally higher on cable but not guaranteed and possibly slower during peak times (and these days there are several different service tiers for both cable and DSL), but most everyone in my metro area gets higher throughput with cable than DSL. I can't vouch for satellite, but I guess it's comparable to DSL? The stupid local phone company formerly known as Quest, formerly known as US West, multiplexed our development's phone lines so that I wasn't able to get DSL. Stupid as it was a new development around the time DSL was being introduced and they eliminated us new homeowners (who would probably want the greatest and latest tech) as new customers right away. I was a consultant to said company working on one of their DSL software projects back in the day and couldn't believe I didn't qualify for DSL when I ran my address through the program.
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post #4617 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 08:37 PM
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Bandwidth is also generally higher on cable but not guaranteed and possibly slower during peak times (and these days there are several different service tiers for both cable and DSL), but most everyone in my metro area gets higher throughput with cable than DSL. I can't vouch for satellite, but I guess it's comparable to DSL? The stupid local phone company formerly known as Quest, formerly known as US West, multiplexed our development's phone lines so that I wasn't able to get DSL. Stupid as it was a new development around the time DSL was being introduced and they eliminated us new homeowners (who would probably want the greatest and latest tech) as new customers right away. I was a consultant to said company working on one of their DSL software projects back in the day and couldn't believe I didn't qualify for DSL when I ran my address through the program.


I had Verizon DSL a couple of years ago and then they raised their fees and lowered their speeds. I think they were trying to discourage people to leave since they didn't want to maintain an antiquated system technology. There is no Fios here, so I went with Cablevison for my internet service. They now offer Netflix's CDN Open Connect, flawless HD streaming and even 3D. I continue to use DTV as my carrier, they are not an ISP.



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post #4618 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

You really need to first calibrate the White balance/greyscale before you attempt the color detail adjustments.

So I played around with the Spears and Munsil disc tonight, my previous settings were:
AGC 4
Black Ext 2
Contrast 87
Brightness -18
Color 32
Tint -2
Sharpness 7

After using the disc, settings are:

AGC 0
Black Ext 0
Contrast 41
Brightness 5
Color 47
Tint 3
Sharpness 7

The colors look pretty good, the cont and brt seem right as the black detail is much improved....however the slight gray haze is back

So with these settings saved, I tweaked them back a little and I find these settings to give the set a lot of "pop" without sacrificing much shadow detail....very little.

What happens that I'm not seeing when I change the AGC to 3 and black extension to 2?

Now I tweaked the settings again from the disc and it looks very clear and sharp...My settings now are:

AGC 3
BE 2
Contrast 60
Brightness 5
Color 40
Warm1

W/B
high R -2
high G -20
high B 0
low R 3
low G -5
low B -3

Red hue -2
Red sat -5
Red lum -2
Grn hue -1
Grn sat -2
grn lum =4
Blue hue 1
Blue sat 2
Blue lum 2

Gamma 2.4
Black lvl light



This is just basing the image to what appears "normal" for me as far as brightness, contrast and black level and detail. Colors are another issue..reds and yellows need to be fine tuned but not by much.

I know the set needs more time but I wanted to mess around with it a little.
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post #4619 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by shadowinq View Post

I'm in Charlotte, looking for 60"+. I've settled on getting the ST60, however. 24-month 0% financing from Best Buy will make it easier to spend a little extra.
'

Asheville here, have you seen any 50" S64s in your search? I've called but they all said no.. tried Greenville too..
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post #4620 of 7070 Old 10-14-2013, 10:26 PM
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I'm in Charlotte, looking for 60"+. I've settled on getting the ST60, however. 24-month 0% financing from Best Buy will make it easier to spend a little extra.

Yeah, that would be hard to pass up.
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Panasonic Tc P65s60 65 Inch 1080p 600hz Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic 60 Inch Plasma Hdtv Tc P60s60 , Panasonic Tc P55s60 55 Inch 1080p 600hz Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Tc P50s60 50 Inch Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic 42 Inch Plasma Hdtv Tc P42s60
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