Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 7124 Old 04-10-2013, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

Wow, that is a big difference!! It's too bad I really want 3D frown.gif

I was really excited for active 3D, it seemed better in theory than passive. But disappointed me quite a bit, dim display with lots of crosstalk/overlap. I watched Happy Feet 2 on a passive 3D LG LED TV a few weeks ago and it was stunning by comparison.
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post #452 of 7124 Old 04-11-2013, 12:15 AM
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Oh my mistake. I don't really understand how the rainbow effect manifests itself, even after a quick few minutes of research online. I don't see anything out of the ordinary, and I tried waving my hand in front of the screen like someone said, but nothing happened.

Regarding the ABL, I do wonder whether my new S60 might be a little less aggressive with it than the previous set I had, or maybe I was just bracing myself for it being a little bit worse than it was. I don't completely understand everything you said, hehe, but the S60 and ST60 do look like very different panels to me, so I'm not sure the settings will quite carry over. I tried the different panel brightness settings and 'Low' seems to wash out the colors a bit, while 'High' hurts the black levels, so I don't think I'll be changing that from 'Mid'. I have contrast set at 100 (the default for User picture mode) and brightness at 0; pretty much everything at default except color tone on Warm1, as I like a slightly warmer tone to my screen. C.A.T.S. off for the most part except maybe late at night. 1080p pixel direct for my PC display.

The more I look at it I really do think the ABL was worse on the previous S60 I had, this really is not bad. I'm also doing the color slides a fair bit for this first week or two, I wonder if that might be helping a bit. The HDMI 'photo' content type has made text on my computer display that much clearer and nicer to read, as well, so even bright pages/screens, which I first thought were S60's one somewhat weak point, look pretty great at this point.

Supposedly, 1080p direct is causing input lag, so turn that off and simply use the display in "native" mode. Don't use a HDMI content either, just turn it off. Turn off everything you can, LOL.

Also, RBE can be seen by panning your camera or your eyes left and right. If the S60 really doesn't show it, then maybe it has to do with the 3D panels, because I noticed in 3D mode I don't get the unconverged RGB phosphor trails. It may be a "feature" of the 3D panels.
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Originally Posted by midkay View Post

I was really excited for active 3D, it seemed better in theory than passive. But disappointed me quite a bit, dim display with lots of crosstalk/overlap. I watched Happy Feet 2 on a passive 3D LG LED TV a few weeks ago and it was stunning by comparison.

Total opposite of my experience. If you calibrate the set in 3D mode it can look just as crisp and bright as 2D mode. Also, Flying Swords at Dragon Gate looked amazing, no cross talk, everything was a huge improvement over the 3D of the UT50.
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post #453 of 7124 Old 04-11-2013, 06:42 AM
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Alright so I completed the exchange last night and have been using the P50S60 for a while today, marveling once again at how awesome gaming is on it. As promised I recorded an input lag test video for the S60, you'll find it at the end of the post.

Couple other quick notes:
- No Game Mode, if I didn't mention that before -- S60 doesn't need it. The display feels completely responsive on all the different settings, pictures modes, etc. that I tried.
- Cannot stress the amazingly good viewing angles, minimal loss of picture quality from even an almost perpendicular angle.
- I think I can see what having double the shades of gradation did for the ST60. From up close you'll occasionally see slight banding or dithering on the S60, in areas of intense color with subtle gradation. I really don't mind this much, and almost hesitate to mention it. Nothing looks any less vibrant or crisp.
- Despite what I'd thought, the S60 *does* have the HDMI content type setting! If you're going to use the S60 as a computer display, do set this to 'Photo' which gives a completely natural image, as opposed to 'Graphics' which adds a sharpening effect, causing text to have bright outlines and aliasing to stand out more, etc. This really pushed the S60's PQ from excellent to marvelous for me, could really not be happier.

Alright, here's the input lag sample video: [S60 input lag test]

Any other questions you may have are welcome, I'll probably be checking in on this thread regularly for a while. biggrin.gif

thanks for the test videos, which says it all. really appreciate it. got my eyes out for a TC-65PS64 now...
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post #454 of 7124 Old 04-11-2013, 08:02 AM
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Does anyone have any calibration settings? (I saw the ones 10 pages ago but haven't seen any since.)
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post #455 of 7124 Old 04-11-2013, 08:18 AM
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@booville, Seems not many people who have meters/software have calibrated this set yet. I'm waiting for D-Nice's settings to compare to mine.

I also will do another calibration once my set has more hours, and I plan to buy a better meter soon. Maybe an i1Display Pro (new id3 version) at some point and I'll be sure to share.

@midkay, If you are not using 1080p direct then by default the Auto HDMI content settings seems to be Photo. If you use 1080p direct then it defaults to Graphics and you get the crazy sharp image which hurts my eyes, then using Photo fixes this. (changing it to Off like another user suggested doesn't fix it, it defaults to Graphics mode and huge sharpened image so you have to manually change to Photo) Thanks for the input-lag test btw. One question, when you uploaded that video, were you using 1080p direct or is there more lag with it on like some other poster suggested?

Sony 32" EX400 calibrated settings

Panasonic 50" S60 calibrated settings

HTPC/Sony S5100 to Sony HT-CT150 to Panasonic 55" VT60, Sony 32" EX400, Panasonic 50" S60

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post #456 of 7124 Old 04-11-2013, 10:33 AM
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How do you feel the black levels compare on the 2 sets?
Sorry, missed this! Well, the S60 and ST60 are the only plasmas I've had extensive firsthand experience with, and both definitely impressed me with their deep, detailed blacks. The ST60 was likely a little bit better there, at least out of the box, but over the course of the two weeks I used the S60 initially, I noticed the blacks getting ever better (as the phosphor aged, I suppose). Bottom line is they're both great and certainly comparable.

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Supposedly, 1080p direct is causing input lag, so turn that off and simply use the display in "native" mode. Don't use a HDMI content either, just turn it off. Turn off everything you can, LOL.

Also, RBE can be seen by panning your camera or your eyes left and right. If the S60 really doesn't show it, then maybe it has to do with the 3D panels, because I noticed in 3D mode I don't get the unconverged RGB phosphor trails. It may be a "feature" of the 3D panels
Too late for me to try this with ST60, but every picture setting I tried for both the ST60 and S60 did not make a noticeable difference with regard to response time; they each remained a pretty consistent level of laggy and responsive, respectively. Also, as mentioned in the previous post, setting HDMI content to 'off' leaves the sharpening effect on, so I won't be doing that. Again, it doesn't seem to make any difference to the perceived response time, on S60 at least, but I can do a little more testing tonight and see if I can notice anything.

I never saw anything like the described RBE on my S60, and I look around at different areas of the screen constantly (I sit just a few feet away, and am turning my head and moving my eyes rapidly around the display all the time). I think you're right, probably something on the 3D panels only.

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One question, when you uploaded that video, were you using 1080p direct or is there more lag with it on like some other poster suggested?
1080p Pixel Direct was on for both the ST60 and S60 videos, so if it's causing more lag than is normal, I'm certainly not noticing it, and you may be able to do even better by disabling it. It seemed like the best option for a PC display though, where I don't want any rescaling, resampling, overscanning etc.
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post #457 of 7124 Old 04-11-2013, 10:41 AM
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Man, that's really, really weird. So, on the ST60, disabling HDMI content type turns off all sharpening, but on the S60, it keeps the sharpening halos on?? Something must be bugged on these sets, since even the GT60 behaves more like the ST60 than the S60. Why would the same setting behave differently on the S60??

Also, 1080p direct, I don't really know if it's causing extra lag, with my setup I've had variable lag from 80 to 100+ all on the same settings, so I don't really know what features are truly adding extra delay and which aren't.

I'm so confused by all this.
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post #458 of 7124 Old 04-11-2013, 11:20 AM
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That is interesting, I thought I remembered the HDMI content type 'Off' setting on the ST60 leaving the sharpening on as well. Have you tried it with pixel direct enabled? I definitely had that on at the time.

I'll have to see if I can measure the S60's lag more accurately, to see if 1080p direct is making a difference. I'm thinking it would be as simple as mirroring a millisecond counter onto both of the screens, recording both displays momentarily, and then seeing how far behind the S60 is compared to my LCD monitor in a freeze frame for both cases. Anyone have a suggestion as to what program I ought to use for that? Or heck, I may just write one myself tonight, that sounds almost more fun biggrin.gif
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post #459 of 7124 Old 04-11-2013, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by midkay View Post

That is interesting, I thought I remembered the HDMI content type 'Off' setting on the ST60 leaving the sharpening on as well. Have you tried it with pixel direct enabled? I definitely had that on at the time.

I'll have to see if I can measure the S60's lag more accurately, to see if 1080p direct is making a difference. I'm thinking it would be as simple as mirroring a millisecond counter onto both of the screens, recording both displays momentarily, and then seeing how far behind the S60 is compared to my LCD monitor in a freeze frame for both cases. Anyone have a suggestion as to what program I ought to use for that? Or heck, I may just write one myself tonight, that sounds almost more fun biggrin.gif
Thanks as always for the tests. The lag difference is night and day. Most people just use a camera with a high shutter speed, making sure the timers are exactly horizontal with each other (since global shutters still aren't in cameras). You then measure the difference.
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post #460 of 7124 Old 04-11-2013, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by midkay View Post

That is interesting, I thought I remembered the HDMI content type 'Off' setting on the ST60 leaving the sharpening on as well. Have you tried it with pixel direct enabled? I definitely had that on at the time.

I'll have to see if I can measure the S60's lag more accurately, to see if 1080p direct is making a difference. I'm thinking it would be as simple as mirroring a millisecond counter onto both of the screens, recording both displays momentarily, and then seeing how far behind the S60 is compared to my LCD monitor in a freeze frame for both cases. Anyone have a suggestion as to what program I ought to use for that? Or heck, I may just write one myself tonight, that sounds almost more fun biggrin.gif

Ah, well that makes sense. If you enable 1080p direct, then it adds a bunch of halos from the odd ball case of extra sharpening. You then have to enable HDMI content type and select Photo to defeat the sharpening on 1080p pixel direct mode. If you simply turn off 1080p direct, turn off overscan, and change the size to 1, then you are getting 100% picture at native resolution which is... 1080p. You would then turn off any HDMI content settings, and it would look exactly the same, but without the extra processing. You may want to try this, and then run your window bounce test again to see if there is a difference. If not, or if not noticeable, then 1080p might not be in fact, adding any additional lag.

As for testing, well there are 3 programs you can use. 2 are stop watch programs, flatpanels.dk Inputlag.exe, and then xNote Stopwatch. Then there is SMTT, but it actually costs money to use, however, I would much prefer to use SMTT though I'm not willing to pay upwards of $100 just to test my display for personal use. It's the most accurate program you can use if you plan on doing the camera test.
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post #461 of 7124 Old 04-11-2013, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

Ah, well that makes sense. If you enable 1080p direct, then it adds a bunch of halos from the odd ball case of extra sharpening. You then have to enable HDMI content type and select Photo to defeat the sharpening on 1080p pixel direct mode. If you simply turn off 1080p direct, turn off overscan, and change the size to 1, then you are getting 100% picture at native resolution which is... 1080p. You would then turn off any HDMI content settings, and it would look exactly the same, but without the extra processing. You may want to try this, and then run your window bounce test again to see if there is a difference. If not, or if not noticeable, then 1080p might not be in fact, adding any additional lag.

As for testing, well there are 3 programs you can use. 2 are stop watch programs, flatpanels.dk Inputlag.exe, and then xNote Stopwatch. Then there is SMTT, but it actually costs money to use, however, I would much prefer to use SMTT though I'm not willing to pay upwards of $100 just to test my display for personal use. It's the most accurate program you can use if you plan on doing the camera test.

Ahhh thanks for the heads up, that makes a lot more sense now. I will try that config on the S60 and see if it changes anything, although it's so friggin' fast already I'm not sure I'd notice the difference biggrin.gif I wish I had tried it on the ST60 when I could.

Interesting about SMTT, do you know what makes it any more accurate than simply putting identical content (i.e. millisecond counter) on both the test display and the control display, recording their visual output, and then working out how far behind the control display the test display is lagging?
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post #462 of 7124 Old 04-11-2013, 09:27 PM
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I've now had a P50S60 for about two weeks, so I thought I'd share my experience.

First off, I haven't noticed input lag, though I've also done very little gaming as I'm mostly letting it sit here running netflix when I'm around to age it a bit before I devote it to more gaming. Picture quality is pretty amazing. Comparing it to my rather high-end computer monitor (professional grade VA panel from around 2005, so it's no slouch) it's still far better. Compared to the budget 27'' TV I replaced it's obviously an improvement.

Now the cons:
I have noticed what another poster described as a "rainbow" effect (Although I've only seen that term applied to projectors, so there's probably a more accurate term for this). Occasionally (It seems to be when something colorful moves across a very dark background), I see what in PC monitors is known as overaggressive RTC, except that it's rainbow-colored. So it's like a thin outline displayed slightly ahead or behind of the motion with a shimmering rainbow effect. It's somewhat rare, and only lasts maybe a frame or two, but noticeable when it does happen. I don't "think" that this is a problem with the source, I've seen it in a blue-ray, a PC game, and on netflix via PS3, so it's either a factor of plasma tech or just an artifact caused by one of the postprocessing options I haven't bothered to turn off yet.

Within about five feet of the screen, some colors, particularly shades of grey, look a bit grainy, basically like static. My guess is that it's also caused by overaggressive postprocessing. It's not visible past about five feet though, so it's not a significant issue.

There is a very mild buzzing. I can only hear it when I'm less than a foot from the set, so it's insignificant. Hopefully it never gets worse.

The initial channel-scan (which took about an hour) the TV did when I hooked it up left a dim blue box in the center of the screen for about ten minutes. That's the extent of IR I've run into, but I don't watch sports or news channels, and haven't done much gaming yet.
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post #463 of 7124 Old 04-11-2013, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by AUnusedUsername View Post

I've now had a P50S60 for about two weeks, so I thought I'd share my experience.

First off, I haven't noticed input lag, though I've also done very little gaming as I'm mostly letting it sit here running netflix when I'm around to age it a bit before I devote it to more gaming. Picture quality is pretty amazing. Comparing it to my rather high-end computer monitor (professional grade VA panel from around 2005, so it's no slouch) it's still far better. Compared to the budget 27'' TV I replaced it's obviously an improvement.

Get some gaming in if you've had it two weeks already. wink.gif
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Now the cons:
I have noticed what another poster described as a "rainbow" effect (Although I've only seen that term applied to projectors, so there's probably a more accurate term for this). Occasionally (It seems to be when something colorful moves across a very dark background), I see what in PC monitors is known as overaggressive RTC, except that it's rainbow-colored. So it's like a thin outline displayed slightly ahead or behind of the motion with a shimmering rainbow effect. It's somewhat rare, and only lasts maybe a frame or two, but noticeable when it does happen. I don't "think" that this is a problem with the source, I've seen it in a blue-ray, a PC game, and on netflix via PS3, so it's either a factor of plasma tech or just an artifact caused by one of the postprocessing options I haven't bothered to turn off yet.
Some people are more sensitive to it than others, seems like you're in the middle of the road (some people see it so bad they can't watch DLP or Plasma without getting a headache!).
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Within about five feet of the screen, some colors, particularly shades of grey, look a bit grainy, basically like static. My guess is that it's also caused by overaggressive postprocessing. It's not visible past about five feet though, so it's not a significant issue.
That's probably due to either 1) The relatively low shades of gradation compared to the other models or 2) Dithering (common in all plasmas). Sit a little farther back if you can.
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There is a very mild buzzing. I can only hear it when I'm less than a foot from the set, so it's insignificant. Hopefully it never gets worse.
You should only hear that when there is bright content on the screen, and even then, shouldn't overcome your content volume.
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post #464 of 7124 Old 04-11-2013, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by midkay View Post

Ahhh thanks for the heads up, that makes a lot more sense now. I will try that config on the S60 and see if it changes anything, although it's so friggin' fast already I'm not sure I'd notice the difference biggrin.gif I wish I had tried it on the ST60 when I could.

Interesting about SMTT, do you know what makes it any more accurate than simply putting identical content (i.e. millisecond counter) on both the test display and the control display, recording their visual output, and then working out how far behind the control display the test display is lagging?

SMTT works by using a specific rendering method to get the accuracy up and on top of that, it counts from top to bottom instead so you don't get as much image ghosting when you capture the footage. This is what it looks like http://www.prad.de/images/monitore/lg_w2443t-pf/inputlag.jpg

I've turned off all those options and have the TV running native, yet I'm still getting very high lag from my camera test. Usually camera testing ends up being faster, but my tests are turning out to be even higher than the HDTVTest Leo Bodnar method, which was reporting 75 ms vs their camera 47 ms to 63 ms results. Maybe the US model is much laggier? Either way, at least the S60 isn't getting it, which is really good!
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Originally Posted by AUnusedUsername View Post

I've now had a P50S60 for about two weeks, so I thought I'd share my experience.

First off, I haven't noticed input lag, though I've also done very little gaming as I'm mostly letting it sit here running netflix when I'm around to age it a bit before I devote it to more gaming. Picture quality is pretty amazing. Comparing it to my rather high-end computer monitor (professional grade VA panel from around 2005, so it's no slouch) it's still far better. Compared to the budget 27'' TV I replaced it's obviously an improvement.

Now the cons:
I have noticed what another poster described as a "rainbow" effect (Although I've only seen that term applied to projectors, so there's probably a more accurate term for this). Occasionally (It seems to be when something colorful moves across a very dark background), I see what in PC monitors is known as overaggressive RTC, except that it's rainbow-colored. So it's like a thin outline displayed slightly ahead or behind of the motion with a shimmering rainbow effect. It's somewhat rare, and only lasts maybe a frame or two, but noticeable when it does happen. I don't "think" that this is a problem with the source, I've seen it in a blue-ray, a PC game, and on netflix via PS3, so it's either a factor of plasma tech or just an artifact caused by one of the postprocessing options I haven't bothered to turn off yet.

Within about five feet of the screen, some colors, particularly shades of grey, look a bit grainy, basically like static. My guess is that it's also caused by overaggressive postprocessing. It's not visible past about five feet though, so it's not a significant issue.

There is a very mild buzzing. I can only hear it when I'm less than a foot from the set, so it's insignificant. Hopefully it never gets worse.

The initial channel-scan (which took about an hour) the TV did when I hooked it up left a dim blue box in the center of the screen for about ten minutes. That's the extent of IR I've run into, but I don't watch sports or news channels, and haven't done much gaming yet.

What you're seeing is what I call RGB trailing. I think it's just a feature of plasma. Basically, any fast horizontal moving dark object on a bright screen tends to leave a trail behind and in front of it that will vary in color depending on the background and foreground object. So something brown on a light white-brown background would have a red and green trail, but on a blue background it may have a blue and green trail. I guess this is phosphor trailing, but I call it RGB because it's like the primaries are not converged properly as if you were on a CRT with bad convergence with the guns misaligned .

The rainbow effect is when you shift your vision around the screen and see RGB streaks and such, even on static images.
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post #465 of 7124 Old 04-11-2013, 10:34 PM
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Outstanding to hear that about the flicker! I'm trading my ST60 for an S60

Have you traded TVs yet? I tried the ST60 and wasn't impressed. I'm going to pick up an S60 on Saturday. RC Willey has a promotion where they pay the tax on anything over $599 on Friday and Saturday.
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post #466 of 7124 Old 04-11-2013, 11:10 PM
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Now the cons:
I have noticed what another poster described as a "rainbow" effect (Although I've only seen that term applied to projectors, so there's probably a more accurate term for this).

Plasma rainbows or "plainbows" is what I've heard it called, and the former is the term I used.
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Occasionally (It seems to be when something colorful moves across a very dark background), I see what in PC monitors is known as overaggressive RTC, except that it's rainbow-colored. So it's like a thin outline displayed slightly ahead or behind of the motion with a shimmering rainbow effect. It's somewhat rare, and only lasts maybe a frame or two, but noticeable when it does happen. I don't "think" that this is a problem with the source, I've seen it in a blue-ray, a PC game, and on netflix via PS3, so it's either a factor of plasma tech or just an artifact caused by one of the postprocessing options I haven't bothered to turn off yet.

Someone else thinks this is describing phosphor trailing. I would think the two can occur together, but maybe I just can't tell them apart in certain scenarios. I would say "pure" phosphor trailing is what I observe in screen wipe, where the leading edge of the white rectangle is smeared blue, while the trailing edge is smeared yellow. If the RBE were also occurring, I'd see occasional random flashes of yellow/green/rainbow when I move my focus or blink. But I don't see that in screen wipe. However, it's all over the place in Sin City, the Alien opening credits, and various other content with similar characteristics. In any event, the S60 doesn't improve much on the ST60 in this area, which is a disappointment, but some say it subsides after a few hundred hours. The S60 does improve some on the flicker, which was quite bad on the ST60 at its Home Screen, the USB media player screen, computer desktop, etc.
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Within about five feet of the screen, some colors, particularly shades of grey, look a bit grainy, basically like static. My guess is that it's also caused by overaggressive postprocessing. It's not visible past about five feet though, so it's not a significant issue.

I believe that's just normal dithering. I saw it on the ST60 as well, and it had the same characteristics. Look at the bars in the AVS709HD Black Clipping pattern to see it really emphasized.
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There is a very mild buzzing. I can only hear it when I'm less than a foot from the set, so it's insignificant. Hopefully it never gets worse.

My goodness, another positive report on buzzing. My S60 is louder than the ST60, whose buzzing was clearly audible from 10' over dialogue and even soft background music in high APL scenes like the typical Family Guy living room scene, which was a major reason I exchanged it. Unlike the ST60, it doesn't respond as well to decreasing contrast, and even with the ST60, I couldn't decrease contrast enough within acceptable limits to get the buzzing acceptable. The S60 also often has a rhythmic component to the buzz when showing a static image.

On the noise front, the S60 adds a highly directional pure tone audible when then there is a lot of black on the screen, like in the XBMC UI, which is similar to what I've heard from CCFL Sony LCDs. The S60 also suffers from loud popping noises, which sound a lot like I remember arcing in CRTs. They occur while the set is on and go on for an hour or more after it's turned off. Thermal expansion/contraction I guess (though I'm surprised how long it goes on after powering down), but the ST60 did not do this ever. Given my usage patterns and environment, This Will Not Stand.
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The initial channel-scan (which took about an hour) the TV did when I hooked it up left a dim blue box in the center of the screen for about ten minutes. That's the extent of IR I've run into, but I don't watch sports or news channels, and haven't done much gaming yet.

I find the S60 acquires IR just as rapidly as the ST60, within 5 minutes, but it clears it much more quickly with Screen Wipe or just watching regular content. The ST60 would still have IR visible on (say) a 30% gray pattern acquired after no more than 10 minutes of (say) the Viera Menu text followed by hours and hours of slides, regular content, and screen wipe. The S60 loses it after a few minutes of screen wipe.

One thing about the S60/ST60 TV tuners: They seem to be much better than Sony tuners.

Concerning the remotes, the ST60 had a problem with its own remote and my universal remote, where single button presses would often be interpreted as repeats, making it very inaccurate to navigate the menus. The S60 does not have this problem.

Anyway, I have to say that my first two plasmas ever suffer from unfortunate noise levels and weird artifacts like the rainbows. However, the picture quality is far superior to LCDs, and while discouraged, I'm not quite ready to give up.
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post #467 of 7124 Old 04-12-2013, 08:38 AM
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I was thinking about picking up the tc-p65s60 from best by for 1499 when I saw that sears has last years Samsung flagship plasma the PN64E7000 on sale for 1999. What do you guys think in terms of picture quality between these two? I have a budget of about 2000
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post #468 of 7124 Old 04-12-2013, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by johnscare84 View Post

I was thinking about picking up the tc-p65s60 from best by for 1499 when I saw that sears has last years Samsung flagship plasma the PN64E7000 on sale for 1999. What do you guys think in terms of picture quality between these two? I have a budget of about 2000

No contest. Panny wins easily. smile.gif
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post #469 of 7124 Old 04-12-2013, 12:05 PM
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Ok S60 owners here is my quandary:

I was planning on waiting for the S64 to hit Costco but now I am hearing mid-may for that and I am not keen on waiting that long to replace my 57" Mits DLP. I really like everything I am hearing about the S60 but I am a bit concerned about the potential glare issue.

I have a room that we usually can light control but the kitchen is behind the couch (and directly facing the TV). Is the S60 so shiny / mirror like that any light on in the kitchen will obscure viewing capability?

I looked at the ST60 at BB and it certainly had a muted glare that seemed very doable but the S60 was not on display yet.

Thanks,
MD
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post #470 of 7124 Old 04-12-2013, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by MillerDuck View Post

Ok S60 owners here is my quandary:

I was planning on waiting for the S64 to hit Costco but now I am hearing mid-may for that and I am not keen on waiting that long to replace my 57" Mits DLP. I really like everything I am hearing about the S60 but I am a bit concerned about the potential glare issue.

I have a room that we usually can light control but the kitchen is behind the couch (and directly facing the TV). Is the S60 so shiny / mirror like that any light on in the kitchen will obscure viewing capability?

I looked at the ST60 at BB and it certainly had a muted glare that seemed very doable but the S60 was not on display yet.

Thanks,
MD
If you expect glare to be a problem, then I would wait only a month for the S64. One month waiting vs. years of regret because of an avoidable problem. I personally prefer the glossy screen of the S60 and UT50, but I can control glare if necessary. But for some people the additional filter is necessary, as the screen is indeed a bit reflective. But not as much of a mirror as similar LG and Samsung models.
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post #471 of 7124 Old 04-12-2013, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MillerDuck View Post

Ok S60 owners here is my quandary:

I was planning on waiting for the S64 to hit Costco but now I am hearing mid-may for that and I am not keen on waiting that long to replace my 57" Mits DLP. I really like everything I am hearing about the S60 but I am a bit concerned about the potential glare issue.

I have a room that we usually can light control but the kitchen is behind the couch (and directly facing the TV). Is the S60 so shiny / mirror like that any light on in the kitchen will obscure viewing capability?

I looked at the ST60 at BB and it certainly had a muted glare that seemed very doable but the S60 was not on display yet.

Thanks,
MD

I'm in the exact same boat as you, but yesterday I stopped into a BB and saw the S60 and ST60 side-by-side. I personally could not stand the S60's glare. While the ST60 still has glare, it is considerably less than the S60. /fingers crossed for the S64.
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post #472 of 7124 Old 04-12-2013, 12:56 PM
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I'm in the exact same boat as you, but yesterday I stopped into a BB and saw the S60 and ST60 side-by-side. I personally could not stand the S60's glare. While the ST60 still has glare, it is considerably less than the S60. /fingers crossed for the S64.
Will you be watching your future TV in a showroom? Just a thought. wink.gif
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post #473 of 7124 Old 04-12-2013, 03:01 PM
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Just stopped in at a different BB. Was able to look at both. I will need the AR filter, so I guess the S64 is it. Now if only my local Costcos could give me better stocking details so I know when to expect to buy one.

MD
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post #474 of 7124 Old 04-12-2013, 09:01 PM
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FWIW, if you have a small- to medium-sized room, the HT-CT150 from Sony is a terrific soundbar system. It also has its own 3-HDMI switcher built-in to the subwoofer. I can control the volume via Viera Link with only the TV remote.

I'm starting to think that your suggestion of a soundbar makes sense. My analog stereo connections are doing adequate job for DVD and DVR, but I'm left with crappy panasonic tv speakers for internet streamed movies. Argghh. Spending $55 for a optical-to-analog converter just so I can play through a stereo (without volume control) irritates me.

I'm a little confused about your "Viera Link" remark. My understanding is this only works for Panasonic products connecting by HDMI. My two HDMI ports on TV are already used up,unsurprisingly. If that "HDMI switcher" is a sort of multiplexer, then maybe HDMI problem fixed. But why would a Sony soundbar be Viera Link compatible?

Huh. I would have thought the soundbar would be connected to TV via the optical audio out on the TV.

You mention the TV remote will control volume, I'd be hoping that a remote from Charter Cable which is programmed to control Panasonic TVs would work. (A quick scan of the soundbar thread is not so promising.) I share my TV with a Luddite who's head would explode if she had to use two remotes to perform simple tasks.
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post #475 of 7124 Old 04-12-2013, 10:16 PM
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Will you be watching your future TV in a showroom? Just a thought. wink.gif

no, but when the screen goes black in between commercials i would prefer not to see a flawless mirror-like reflection of myself in the tv. i prefer the blurred version of me, courteous of the AR filter. LOL
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post #476 of 7124 Old 04-12-2013, 11:33 PM
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Will you be watching your future TV in a showroom? Just a thought. wink.gif
But our room could be as bright as in a showroom. rolleyes.gif
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post #477 of 7124 Old 04-13-2013, 01:48 AM
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I'm starting to think that your suggestion of a soundbar makes sense. My analog stereo connections are doing adequate job for DVD and DVR, but I'm left with crappy panasonic tv speakers for internet streamed movies. Argghh. Spending $55 for a optical-to-analog converter just so I can play through a stereo (without volume control) irritates me.

I'm a little confused about your "Viera Link" remark. My understanding is this only works for Panasonic products connecting by HDMI. My two HDMI ports on TV are already used up,unsurprisingly. If that "HDMI switcher" is a sort of multiplexer, then maybe HDMI problem fixed. But why would a Sony soundbar be Viera Link compatible?

Huh. I would have thought the soundbar would be connected to TV via the optical audio out on the TV.

You mention the TV remote will control volume, I'd be hoping that a remote from Charter Cable which is programmed to control Panasonic TVs would work. (A quick scan of the soundbar thread is not so promising.) I share my TV with a Luddite who's head would explode if she had to use two remotes to perform simple tasks.
Glad my message got through. cool.gif
Per your questions, on my ST30, I have up to three HDMI devices connected to the subwoofer, with one HDMI out (ARC compatible) to go to the TV. The only times I need to touch the remote for the soundbar are to 1) Change input or 2) Change soundfield (stereo, movie, game, etc. they're mostly arbitrary). It's not "truly" linked up with the TV, but on my Panasonic remote, pressing up/down on volume controls the soundbar through the TV (says home theater volume +/-).

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Originally Posted by moshock View Post

no, but when the screen goes black in between commercials i would prefer not to see a flawless mirror-like reflection of myself in the tv. i prefer the blurred version of me, courteous of the AR filter. LOL
Point taken.

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Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

But our room could be as bright as in a showroom. rolleyes.gif
Well then you shouldn't be looking for a plasma. tongue.gif
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post #478 of 7124 Old 04-13-2013, 07:08 AM
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S64 65" is showing in stock and able to buy on Sams club online as of this morning. $1448.

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/65-600hz-plasma-tv-1080p-2-hdmi-wifi/prod9300314.ip?sprodId=prod9300314

I was waiting on Costco, because I have a membership and i prefer their customer service, but can anyone with Sams membership tell me any perks they offer for buying a TV? Extended warranty? What is the return window?

Thanks.
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post #479 of 7124 Old 04-13-2013, 07:09 AM
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Why doesn't any store carry the 42"? My only option is online and Amazon's price is way too high. Don't know anything about the other online stores that have it cheaper.

Indecision may or may not be my problem.
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post #480 of 7124 Old 04-13-2013, 07:35 AM
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S64 65" is showing in stock and able to buy on Sams club online as of this morning. $1448.

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/65-600hz-plasma-tv-1080p-2-hdmi-wifi/prod9300314.ip?sprodId=prod9300314

I was waiting on Costco, because I have a membership and i prefer their customer service, but can anyone with Sams membership tell me any perks they offer for buying a TV? Extended warranty? What is the return window?

Thanks.

Maybe I'm just dumb, but when I click your link I see the tv available, but if I click the plasma TV link, I only see 2 tv's, not this one. And if I search by brand, the only Panasonics are LED tv's...
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