Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DWells55 View Post

So no definitive scientifically tested numbers regarding lag on the S60 and S64 models yet?

I've got a UT50 right now that's getting packed up and sent back to Costco provided I'm still in the return window. Picture is nice and input lag seemed okay from an hour of Forza Horizon I played, but it's a mirror during the day and I can't handle the buzzing anymore.

I need a low-lag TV with a good picture, preferably in the sub-$1000 bracket, and it looks like the S60/S64 are my only hope. Sigh, it seems like shopping for decent picture and low lag was a lot easier several years ago than it is now.


I recently picked up a 65 s60 2 weeks ago. I also have a 65 s1 and a 60 u54. Input lag is not noticeable at all on the s60. I would say it feels the most responsive of these 3. Then the s1 followed by the u50. All three of them are very good for gaming. Unfortunately the s60 has no ar filter so it is a mirror, just as bad or worse than the ut50. They say the s64 has an ar filter so it would be the perfect tv for you if the input lag is the same as the s60. I hope this helps.

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post #542 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by OCMike80 View Post

I recently picked up a 65 s60 2 weeks ago. I also have a 65 s1 and a 60 u54. Input lag is not noticeable at all on the s60. I would say it feels the most responsive of these 3. Then the s1 followed by the u50. All three of them are very good for gaming. Unfortunately the s60 has no ar filter so it is a mirror, just as bad or worse than the ut50. They say the s64 has an ar filter so it would be the perfect tv for you if the input lag is the same as the s60. I hope this helps.

Thanks for the heads up. Unfortunately the S64 only comes in 50" and 65". I think I'm going to (if possible) return the UT50, get a 50" S60 as soon as possible, test the input lag with one of the popular methods, and see how it is. If it's good and the AR filter works then I may be on to something. Then it will just be a matter if I can live with a 50" screen or if I have to take the old tax return funds and put them toward a 65"...
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post #543 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 05:18 PM
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The S60 doesn't have an ar filter it is like a mirror. I put mine in my bedroom and left the s1 in the living room for that reason. If you can minimize glare then trust me it's perfect for gaming. I don't have any scientific testing but I can definitely feel when a tv has lag or not. I went through a sony xbr lcd and a samsung 650a plasma and they were horrible when it came to input lag. The s60 is an awesome tv I just hope the glare doesn't ruin it for you, and if it does you can always try the s64. I know what you mean when you say it's hard to find a good display with low input lag.

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post #544 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 05:21 PM
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I forgot to mention that the s60 does buzz too. I

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post #545 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by OCMike80 View Post

I forgot to mention that the s60 does buzz too. I

If it's buzzing loud enough to be heard from anything approaching a normal viewing distance then it's defective and needs to be returned, replaced, or repaired. I wouldn't put up with excessive buzzing.

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post #546 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

If it's buzzing loud enough to be heard from anything approaching a normal viewing distance then it's defective and needs to be returned, replaced, or repaired. I wouldn't put up with excessive buzzing.

I was disappointed to be 0/2 for the 50" ST60 and S60 WRT that standard, and it wasn't even remotely close. It was the same thing with refrigerators. I must be very unlucky. rolleyes.gif
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post #547 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 08:05 PM
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I bought an LG 55"7600 LED roughly 3 mos. ago and this Panasonic 50s60 three weeks ago. The LG blows the doors off this Panasonic. The LG is breath-taking. Somebody else said he thought the 50s60 was a little fuzzy and not crisp. That's exactly the way I would put it. I always wanted to get a Panasonic Plasma, but all the problems over the years (Black levels diminishing, Burn-in, etc.) kept me from doing so. I decided to get this 50s60 for the bedroom, but I am not impressed. I fooled around with the settings and got it better, but not good enough. C/net just came out with the st60 series review and say it is the best TV picture ever, so I will exchange this 50s60 for that 50st60. I don't need the 3D, but I will take it so I can have an awesome picture. Any others have this 50s60 and find the picture quality lacking? I almost wonder if I just got a bad panel, but now am willing to exchange and pay a little more. I paid 699.99 for the S60, on sale at BB, but will pay 999.99 for the ST60, which is also on sale at BB.
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post #548 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 08:08 PM
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My S60 has absolutely no buzz...........
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post #549 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by final4illini View Post

I bought an LG 55"7600 LED roughly 3 mos. ago and this Panasonic 50s60 three weeks ago. The LG blows the doors off this Panasonic. The LG is breath-taking. Somebody else said he thought the 50s60 was a little fuzzy and not crisp. That's exactly the way I would put it. I always wanted to get a Panasonic Plasma, but all the problems over the years (Black levels diminishing, Burn-in, etc.) kept me from doing so. I decided to get this 50s60 for the bedroom, but I am not impressed. I fooled around with the settings and got it better, but not good enough. C/net just came out with the st60 series review and say it is the best TV picture ever, so I will exchange this 50s60 for that 50st60. I don't need the 3D, but I will take it so I can have an awesome picture. Any others have this 50s60 and find the picture quality lacking? I almost wonder if I just got a bad panel, but now am willing to exchange and pay a little more. I paid 699.99 for the S60, on sale at BB, but will pay 999.99 for the ST60, which is also on sale at BB.
That LG is twice the price of your S60, just to put things into perspective.
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post #550 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 08:17 PM
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It is hardly noticeable. I can barely hear it and I have to turn the volume all the way down and put my ear to the front of the tv. I only mentioned it because it seems some people are very susceptible to it.

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post #551 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 08:20 PM
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I really wish there were some new professional reviews on the S60 series...
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post #552 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by moshock View Post

Thank you for sharing. I'm very interested in this exact model. Please feel free to share any other opinions on this set. You wouldn't by chance be techy enough to measure the black levels or input lag, would you? biggrin.gif

What was the in-store price if you don't mind me asking?


Sorry, don't know how to measure black levels or input lag. It was ~$1450 before sales tax at Sam's.

A few of other things I have noticed:
1. The ar filter, though not quite as effective as the one on my elite, doesn't seem to affect the picture at all. Sometimes, depending on the scene, it almost seemed like the ar coating on the elite gave a bit of a subtle "wavy" appearance to the image under certain viewing conditions.
2. The elite's filter gives off a slight purple hue under bright light, the one on the s64 does not, the screen looks black.
3. Buzzing is only audible on white images with the volume muted and standing within 2-3 ft of the tv. No buzzing whatsoever at normal viewing distance with the volume at a reasonable level.
4. No appreciable lag during gaming.
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post #553 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

If it's buzzing loud enough to be heard from anything approaching a normal viewing distance then it's defective and needs to be returned, replaced, or repaired. I wouldn't put up with excessive buzzing.
+1 Thats the bottom line.

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post #554 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by final4illini View Post

I bought an LG 55"7600 LED roughly 3 mos. ago and this Panasonic 50s60 three weeks ago. The LG blows the doors off this Panasonic. The LG is breath-taking. Somebody else said he thought the 50s60 was a little fuzzy and not crisp. That's exactly the way I would put it. I always wanted to get a Panasonic Plasma, but all the problems over the years (Black levels diminishing, Burn-in, etc.) kept me from doing so. I decided to get this 50s60 for the bedroom, but I am not impressed. I fooled around with the settings and got it better, but not good enough. C/net just came out with the st60 series review and say it is the best TV picture ever, so I will exchange this 50s60 for that 50st60. I don't need the 3D, but I will take it so I can have an awesome picture. Any others have this 50s60 and find the picture quality lacking? I almost wonder if I just got a bad panel, but now am willing to exchange and pay a little more. I paid 699.99 for the S60, on sale at BB, but will pay 999.99 for the ST60, which is also on sale at BB.


Fuzzy??? Blurry??? What are you feeding it.

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post #555 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by moshock View Post

I really wish there were some new professional reviews on the S60 series...
I'm perplexed as to why there aren't any, either. Televisioninfo's review is okay, but there's some specifics that aren't discussed in-depth or at all (motion performance, input lag, etc.). Cnet makes many comparisons to the S60 in their ST60 review, the main difference cited being the lack of an anti-reflective filter. In other words, whenever (or if, ever) they write their review it'll probably get a great rating in dark-room viewing.

The only problem is, the S60 will probably be purported as a terrible TV when juxtaposed with the ST60. "Hey, where's the smart apps?" "Why is there sooooo much glare?" "It doesn't have 3D? WHAT?"
Sometimes bare-bones is a good thing.
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post #556 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

Televisioninfo's review is okay, but there's some specifics that aren't discussed in-depth or at all (motion performance, input lag, etc.)

Right. Their review seems more like an advertisement.
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post #557 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

I'm perplexed as to why there aren't any, either. Televisioninfo's review is okay, but there's some specifics that aren't discussed in-depth or at all (motion performance, input lag, etc.). Cnet makes many comparisons to the S60 in their ST60 review, the main difference cited being the lack of an anti-reflective filter. In other words, whenever (or if, ever) they write their review it'll probably get a great rating in dark-room viewing.

The only problem is, the S60 will probably be purported as a terrible TV when juxtaposed with the ST60. "Hey, where's the smart apps?" "Why is there sooooo much glare?" "It doesn't have 3D? WHAT?"
Sometimes bare-bones is a good thing.


I expect it to get the same good reviews from cnet as the u50. It is a much better tv than the u50 in my opinion. It is excellent for gaming. I wish I had the leo bodnar device to prove it, but I don't. I'm an avid gamer so trust me the input lag is low.

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post #558 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 09:23 PM
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Right. Their review seems more like an advertisement.
That's what I worried about, but the reviewer seems genuine in our e-mail exchanges. Their review style has recently changed compared to the archived, in-depth reviews, to supposedly stream-line the gist of all the information/performance characteristics a TV has to offer. Works well for the general reader, but not for us techies who want more specifics. wink.gif

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Originally Posted by OCMike80 View Post

I expect it to get the same good reviews from cnet as the u50. It is a much better tv than the u50 in my opinion. It is excellent for gaming. I wish I had the leo bodnar device to prove it, but I don't. I'm an avid gamer so trust me the input lag is low.
Great to hear another gamer in here. biggrin.gif I saw your post above. I see that you are indeed coming from the u50. Quick question though, how does the TV do with bright scenes in games? I know the ABL is rather aggressive (easy to see in BB's showroom with all other TVs maxed out in brightness), but I wonder how this set does in a dark room--with settings appropriately turned down--when scenes get bright?
P.S. Very nice set up. You may want to turn that aquarium light off when you're gaming though. I'd get pretty distracted. tongue.gif
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post #559 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

That's what I worried about, but the reviewer seems genuine in our e-mail exchanges. Their review style has recently changed compared to the archived, in-depth reviews, to supposedly stream-line the gist of all the information/performance characteristics a TV has to offer. Works well for the general reader, but not for us techies who want more specifics. wink.gif
Great to hear another gamer in here. biggrin.gif I saw your post above. I see that you are indeed coming from the u50. Quick question though, how does the TV do with bright scenes in games? I know the ABL is rather aggressive (easy to see in BB's showroom with all other TVs maxed out in brightness), but I wonder how this set does in a dark room--with settings appropriately turned down--when scenes get bright?
P.S. Very nice set up. You may want to turn that aquarium light off when you're gaming though. I'd get pretty distracted. tongue.gif

Thanks, It does really well in the dark in home theater mode or cinema mode. Honestly even vivid looks good on the s60 the contrast isn't blown out of proportion like it is on the u50. It also has a 1080p pixel direct mode that seems to put it in full rgb non standard mode. So you can change the xbox settings to full and extended and get excellent shadow detail and color. The ABL seems less than the u50 but more aggressive than the s1. It doesn't bother that much because It seems to brighten up shadow detail when the screen gets really dark. The whites stay white and do not get dim, it is really only noticeable if I am looking for it and pan from left to right from a dark scene to a bright scene. It performs really well playing bioshock infinite, I couldn't stand playing it on the u50 as the bright scenes got to me. As for input lag, I am thinking of getting the leo bodnar device just to see how low it really is. I have to say it feels faster than the s1 and u50 in terms of input lag and motion is really smooth when panning left and right. The u50 seemed to judder a little when panning left to right. The s60 feels just as smooth if not smoother than the s1. Feel free to ask any questions and I will answer as best I can.

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post #560 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 10:45 PM
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I figured that device would not be readily available, and for only a $115-$145 bucks or so (depends on which shipping method you choose). Huh...http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=89&products_id=212

OCMike, have you played BF3 on your S60?
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post #561 of 7067 Old 04-15-2013, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by OCMike80 View Post

Thanks, It does really well in the dark in home theater mode or cinema mode. Honestly even vivid looks good on the s60 the contrast isn't blown out of proportion like it is on the u50. It also has a 1080p pixel direct mode that seems to put it in full rgb non standard mode. So you can change the xbox settings to full and extended and get excellent shadow detail and color. The ABL seems less than the u50 but more aggressive than the s1. It doesn't bother that much because It seems to brighten up shadow detail when the screen gets really dark. The whites stay white and do not get dim, it is really only noticeable if I am looking for it and pan from left to right from a dark scene to a bright scene. It performs really well playing bioshock infinite, I couldn't stand playing it on the u50 as the bright scenes got to me. As for input lag, I am thinking of getting the leo bodnar device just to see how low it really is. I have to say it feels faster than the s1 and u50 in terms of input lag and motion is really smooth when panning left and right. The u50 seemed to judder a little when panning left to right. The s60 feels just as smooth if not smoother than the s1. Feel free to ask any questions and I will answer as best I can.
Awesome, your experience sounds similar to midkay's, and he's using his with 1080p direct on his PC. Infinite looks like a very bright game (probably going to borrow it from a friend this month, haha), so glad to hear the S60 plays it well. If it can handle that, it can handle anything.

I do have one more question. I'm coming from a 42-inch plasma, wanting to get the 60 inch S60. Since you have the 65 inch, you're the guy to ask. How's the sharpness on a big screen like this? I'll be able to control my viewing distance pretty well. I'm thinking a 6-8 feet distance should look outstanding at 1080p and 60 inches. Correct?

Also, I just realized in your comments on your setups that the s60 is NOT the one near the fishtank, rather the one playing dead space. Whoops. rolleyes.gif
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post #562 of 7067 Old 04-16-2013, 12:01 AM
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Awesome, your experience sounds similar to midkay's, and he's using his with 1080p direct on his PC. Infinite looks like a very bright game (probably going to borrow it from a friend this month, haha), so glad to hear the S60 plays it well. If it can handle that, it can handle anything.

I do have one more question. I'm coming from a 42-inch plasma, wanting to get the 60 inch S60. Since you have the 65 inch, you're the guy to ask. How's the sharpness on a big screen like this? I'll be able to control my viewing distance pretty well. I'm thinking a 6-8 feet distance should look outstanding at 1080p and 60 inches. Correct?

Also, I just realized in your comments on your setups that the s60 is NOT the one near the fishtank, rather the one playing dead space. Whoops. rolleyes.gif[/quo

The sharpness is good and it all depends on the setting. If you set the tv in home theater, cinema, or custom I've noticed it puts out a softer image. If you put it in vivid mode it puts out a much sharper image. It all depends on how sharp you like or don't like it. I personally like to game on this tv in vivid with the sharpness turned up for a really clear picture. 1080p direct helps dim the contrast and looks awesome as long as you change your xbox settings.

You will definitely enjoy 1080p on your 60 inch from 6-8 feet away. It will look awesome. What kind of picture do you like for gaming? Sharper or softer? Vivid setting on the s60 reminds me of game mode on the s1 and u50.

Yeah, the room with the fish tank has alot of windows behind the pic and the s60 doesn't have the ar filter so I put in my room without any windows facing it.

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post #563 of 7067 Old 04-16-2013, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

I figured that device would not be readily available, and for only a $115-$145 bucks or so (depends on which shipping method you choose). Huh...http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=89&products_id=212

OCMike, have you played BF3 on your S60?


No, I haven't yet. I have played a lot of black ops 2, Gears of war, dead space 3 and bio shock infinite. I like to use the active reload on Gears to determine lag and it is always spot on. Is bf3 the game you're currently playing?

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post #564 of 7067 Old 04-16-2013, 06:01 AM
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I just purchased a 65S60, should get it in a couple of weeks. Over the past 7 years, I've had 3 LCDs, so this plasma will be a change for me.

I only have one concern at this point, and that's no anti glare filter on the S60. The ST is $700 more, which is over budget and the wife would kill me, but she would also probably kill me too if she can't watch her shows because its a 65" mirror.. (She's used to the 60" sharp LED we had).

I've attached a pic, so that you can see the bay window and where the tv will be on the wall (you can see the bracket up on the left wall). Not taking into consideration the ST better panel, processing, menu options, 3D, smart TV etc.. should I dish out 700 more only for that anti glare filter, or will I be ok with the S and those blinds on the bay window??

Thx!


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post #565 of 7067 Old 04-16-2013, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post

I just purchased a 65S60......I only have one concern at this point, and that's no anti glare filter on the S60. The ST is $700 more, which is over budget and the wife would kill me, but she would also probably kill me too if she can't watch her shows because its a 65" mirror......Not taking into consideration the ST better panel, processing, menu options, 3D, smart TV etc.. should I dish out 700 more only for that anti glare filter, or will I be ok with the S and those blinds on the bay window??

If you're concerned about reflections why don't you just get the S64 instead of the S60 or ST60?

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post #566 of 7067 Old 04-16-2013, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post

I just purchased a 65S60, should get it in a couple of weeks. Over the past 7 years, I've had 3 LCDs, so this plasma will be a change for me.

I only have one concern at this point, and that's no anti glare filter on the S60. The ST is $700 more, which is over budget and the wife would kill me, but she would also probably kill me too if she can't watch her shows because its a 65" mirror.. (She's used to the 60" sharp LED we had).

I've attached a pic, so that you can see the bay window and where the tv will be on the wall (you can see the bracket up on the left wall). Not taking into consideration the ST better panel, processing, menu options, 3D, smart TV etc.. should I dish out 700 more only for that anti glare filter, or will I be ok with the S and those blinds on the bay window??

Thx!


That's a pretty extreme angle for the light to hit the surface of the screen, so I personally don't think you'll see many reflections off of it. With that said, Sams Club does have a 65PS64 model that is the exact same TV you bought, except it includes an AR filter...
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post #567 of 7067 Old 04-16-2013, 06:39 AM
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^^^

I'm in Canada, not sure if Costco carries the S64, I looked at the Costco Canada website and they had no Panasonic plasma, I might call my local store, since I also looked at the US Costco website and its not on there either, but I believe it's available there (or is it only available at SAMs club?).

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post #568 of 7067 Old 04-16-2013, 07:25 AM
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It's supposed to be at both.
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post #569 of 7067 Old 04-16-2013, 07:27 AM
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I called my local Costco, S64 is not showing up in their system, she did say that they will get the 65ST60 and it will be 200 less than msrp. However where I bought my S they gave me 200 off msrp, so even if I return the S and get the ST at Costco, it would still be 700 more than what I paid for the S.

So unless someone sees a major problem with the S and my bay window, I think I'll wait for it and see what it looks like up on the wall..

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post #570 of 7067 Old 04-16-2013, 07:35 AM
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Great info in this thread, thanks all! smile.gif
Im due for an upgrade, I currently have a samsung 55" DLP (~15" deep) . I had preodered the 60" ST60 but now cancelled it thinking the input lag cant be patched and i dont care for 3D. Now Im looking at the 65" S64.......I can probably get away with an S60 since the tv is going in the basement mancave.
I game and with the new consoles coming out this year no lag is a must. Im itching to hear from someone who received the S64 or some more in depth reviews biggrin.gif

gt: EverydayBADGUY
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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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