Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 190 - AVS Forum
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post #5671 of 7124 Old 12-06-2013, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DrewL View Post

Just got a P50S60 as my main TV. They can be had for $700 at Best Buy (until they run out of stock...)



Does this seem to be the normal amount of noise for the S60?

I bought the P50S60 after considering the (very few) other 50"-55" around that price range (I looked at the S60 and ST60 side by side at the store - the $300 price bump wasn't worth it for me). I was looking for PQ on a budget, and for me it was between the S60 and an LCD LG LN5x00 (LN5200/5400/5600, they're all pretty much the same).To my shock, once taken out of demo/vivid mode, the LG picture was really nice. What pushed me was the rave reviews of the S60. In contrast, every store in the US carries the LN5x00 but no one in the internet seems to own one for some mysterious reason.


I calibrated my set using CNET's settings and I only see noise slightly on compressed content, such as certain channels on my DTV or some movies that I stream on Netflix Super HD.

If you read the reviews, the main problem with most LG's, ( LCD and PDP) which include their flagship models, is that their black levels and contrast are not up to par with similar offerings from Samsung, Sony and Panasonic.


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post #5672 of 7124 Old 12-06-2013, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

I calibrated my set using CNET's settings and I only see noise slightly on compressed content, such as certain channels on my DTV or some movies that I stream on Netflix Super HD.

If you read the reviews, the main problem with most LG's, ( LCD and PDP) which include their flagship models, is that their black levels and contrast are not up to par with similar offerings from Samsung, Sony and Panasonic.


Ian

By definition, entering existing settings has nothing to do with calibration. It's simply incorrect English.

Adjusting settings according to personal preference is not calibration.
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post #5673 of 7124 Old 12-06-2013, 04:42 PM
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Neither is using calibration discs, but it sure is closer. Calibration is a science involved process.
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post #5674 of 7124 Old 12-06-2013, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

This is my second Panasonic plasma, never ran slides or did a formal break-in, and IR has never been an issue. Unless I was a gamer, I would never consider an LCD as my main TV. (I have a smaller set which is an LCD in my main bedroom). I Immediately run full screen programing or the screen wash for 15-30 minutes to eliminate stubborn IR from static images and letter boxing, and it's no big deal for me.


Ian

Yeah, it eventually became less of an issue for me. I could keep it at bay with pixel orbiter ON, and running screen wiper or slides from time to time. But any menu in a video game, left there for just 30sec would cause IR, but getting the whole screen moving again, yeah it'd go away.

I was willing to work with IR, as there are tools to combat, but for me linebleed is what killed the PQ for me. It would crop up at least every 10 mins on something, and I don't mean me going and looking for it on menu buttons or something (though really that you can easily find it there is pretty ridiculously in itself), but just playing a game or watching a movie, just when you get into it and use to the nice picture quality, BAM some line or bar would go across someones face or the sky, it was ridiculous. Even had a friend come over, didn't say anything to him about it, and within 10mins of watching a movie he said "Whoa, what the heck was that bar that was just across the person's face?" and I had to explain to him how that was "normal" for plasmas.

I will coincide, that perhaps I had a defective set, but seeing how it's considered "normal" anyway, I really didn't want to bother to exchange it for another one to find out. Being an avid gamer, plasmas just aren't for me, the HUD elements of games do require some active maintaince to remove the IR that they do cause (usually just blobs though if PO is set to "ON"). I really, REALLY wanted to like this TV. In fact I did out of the box, it was beautiful. The picture was amazing but quickly there was just more and more linebleed. And anyone who says "oh you were just looking for it", well that's just a complete blank statement, as yes, I do look around my TV screen as I view video or play games, so I guess looking anywhere at the screen is considered "looking for it".

And a side note, I have never owned an LCD/LED TV before, but I have used LCD/LED monitors nearly every day at home and work for the last 8-9yrs and I've never once seen anything remotely close to ghosting or motion blur once. Nor did I when I lived with my friend and his wife for 6 months and gamed on their 42" Sony LCD, which was about 3yrs ago, the tv is about 6-7yrs old now.

Maybe down the road when I have more desposible income, and can afford/need more than one TV in my house, and can get a 2nd that I can dedicate on just for movies/TV I'll considering getting another plasma, a higher end one (in the hopes linebleed isn't so obvious), but until then I'm going to stay away from them, but that's just me.
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post #5675 of 7124 Old 12-06-2013, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewL View Post

Just got a P50S60 as my main TV. They can be had for $700 at Best Buy (until they run out of stock...)

So far I'm a happy camper, but the first thing I noticed was the dithering / PWM noise. Of course, it appears on any system menu or internal graphics and so far I haven't been able to affect it much via settings. As the video demonstrates, It's not really noticeable from a normal viewing distance.

Does this seem to be the normal amount of noise for the S60?

I bought the P50S60 after considering the (very few) other 50"-55" around that price range (I looked at the S60 and ST60 side by side at the store - the $300 price bump wasn't worth it for me). I was looking for PQ on a budget, and for me it was between the S60 and an LCD LG LN5x00 (LN5200/5400/5600, they're all pretty much the same).To my shock, once taken out of demo/vivid mode, the LG picture was really nice. What pushed me was the rave reviews of the S60. In contrast, every store in the US carries the LN5x00 but no one in the internet seems to own one for some mysterious reason.

I tried 3 different LG L?5850's before I bought my s60, and they all suffered from the same terrible dirty screen effect and screen door effect. Their blacks were acceptable for me, and as they were 3d sets the picture could belt your eyes with brightness. The input lag was perfect fine for me as well.

But I just couldn't take the DSE. Drove me crazy.
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post #5676 of 7124 Old 12-06-2013, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by willieconway View Post

By definition, entering existing settings has nothing to do with calibration. It's simply incorrect English.


As I former English teacher I would have to agree. But this isn't English class. That being said, I should have written that I was using CNET's calibration settings. Shame on me. rolleyes.gif



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post #5677 of 7124 Old 12-07-2013, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Oh, how I envy you movie lovers. I watched a couple of HD-DVDs a few days ago and this set is more of a movie lover's dream come true than a hardcore gamer's TV. Killer blacks, detailed pictures, sure it's no Kuro nor ST60, but for its price, this set really delivers. One thing I'd give this TV is that while the ABL is aggressive, at least it's ramping down gently, never abrupt. This kind of behavior seem to work very well for movies. (plus, many of the movies are 2.35:1, with black bars, giving the S60 an excellent breathing room for ABL) Motion problems are also far rarer for movies as well. (other than judder or 24hz conversion issues) I've only noticed phosphor lag on bright object like Happy Feet's bright ice, and compared to games, it really was mild that complaining about it would be way too nitpicking. Actually, I was able to discover more frames of animation for music videos that I've often watched on LCDs. For movies, it does have great motion performance.

Games exhibit different behaviour from the movies though and that's what we're talking about.

You really feel the motion is great for movies? I'm trying to sort this out for myself. There are seemingly more complaints starting to come out about motion performance on these tv's and I'm trying to sort out whether I'm just sensitive to it or if the performance is poor as the rtings.com ratings would indicate.

I've net yet watched Blu-Ray or DVD, but have streamed and now have an HD cable box. Since I don't have Blu-Ray I guess I can't really judge 24p performance. Not positive on that, as I can't seem to get a definitive answer on if a movie streamed, watched on cable or on demand is going to be in 24p?

My complaint isn't really about judder as I don't think I've been able to test that, although I did see a judder effect on South Park quite prominently, but that could be the content?

Anyhow, my complaint is more just like an extremely slight, but extremely annoying doubling or blurring with almost any motion, even just people moving at a walking pace or moving their head while talking, also even on slow horizontal or even vertical pans. It's hard to discuss this because people seem to be using different terminology or talking about different things. The reviews, for the most part, talk about motion performance in relation to 24p handling and since I'm seeing this on all movies I'd guess that's not what I'm experiencing. I also can't test out what I think about 60hz performance. I've heard many people say they like that better than even the proper 24p 96hz setting at times. I just don't know if in those cases they are talking about judder only and what I'd think of the general motion performance. What's the term for that?

When do I turn on 3:2 pulldown? Just on 1080i stuff? and what should it be helping with and what is the downside?

When watching football I'm not seeing any crazy doubling or skipping like on an LCD. In fact, this effect actually bothers me far less on fast action football than it does during normal, average speed people in a movie.

Is the ST60 better in this regard? I know it's motion handling is supposed to be better, but that's usually a reference to 24p. Is it better in general as well for motion? I'd hate to have to spend another 400 bucks just for that though.

Also, I'm surprised that only a small handful of us seem to think this tv is extremely noisy with dither. I was close to returning it on that aspect alone, until I discovered setting panel brightness to mid over low helped quite a bit, along with down a couple notches on the brightness and up on the Gamma. Helped a lot, but unfortunately effects one of the strong suits of the panel, the shadow detail as blacks are crushing a bit now.

I guess we're all sensitive to different things. Line bleed and ABL are non-issues for me. I rarely even see ABL. Makes me wonder if their is quite a bit of panel performance variety. I'd think if people were getting the dithering I am they'd definitely complain. Certain darker content is extremely noisy. I'd think this would bother a lot of people even more than myself because I'm a bit more accepting of it as it reminds me of film noise....most want a clean look. I do to of course, unless the film grain is actually there. wink.gif

I'd be exchanging this in a heartbeat if there was another worthy option. I'm considering the Sammy F5300, but hear the ABL is bad, though maybe I'm not sensitive to it as I don't see it on the Panny. I hear it's blacks are nowhere near as good despite Cnet giving them the same measurements.

While I'm at it, is there a game mode on this tv? I haven't seen it, but it keeps getting mentioned. Also, do you ever need to use the HDMI settings that are listed as graphics, photos, etc...? Where to set the color range? I never see these settings mentioned in the calibrators recommendations.
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post #5678 of 7124 Old 12-07-2013, 11:07 AM
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Not so OT as this is AudioVideo(Systems?)Forums. I'm an audiophile as well.

Nice - I have the Denon 1910, which has more power but doesn't have ARC (and I don't think 3D HDMI either) capabilities that yours has. I have ADS 101A? full range speakers (1986, but given to me for free 2 or 3 years ago) for my front mains and DCM QED 1A full range speakers (1985) which became my rear surround speakers after the ADSs replaced them. I don't have a center speaker or a sub, but with the Audyssey EQ I get impressive thunderous bass out of my speakers with movies.

I'm a fan of Polks, but couldn't afford them when I bought my DCM speakers way back in 1985. The ADS speakers originally cost twice as much as my DCMs (and blow them away) and could hardly believe someone gave them away for free! I used to run 6.5" Polks in my old car, however. How much were your Polks and do you have a sub with your system? PM me if you don't want to add any more OT to this thread.

Polks are good but considered a little bit above entry level basically but it suits me just fine. If you get Polks always go through newegg and wait until they have a special. Looking at my history at newegg the Polk 60's were $245.96 for the pair, $72.98 for the cs1 (cs1 is for 60's, cs2 is for the 70's), and the pair of monitor 30's were $79.99. Not bad for a good 5.0 setup. I haven't bothered with 7.1 but it's always an option in the future. I did my research here and got the BIC America F12 sub which is great, but it's just a coffee table as I'm in an apartment now. I even have to turn down the bass on the 60's so I don't piss people off. I should sell the BIC cheap but it got scratched up big time when I moved mad.gif
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post #5679 of 7124 Old 12-07-2013, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by aman74 View Post

You really feel the motion is great for movies? I'm trying to sort this out for myself. There are seemingly more complaints starting to come out about motion performance on these tv's and I'm trying to sort out whether I'm just sensitive to it or if the performance is poor as the rtings.com ratings would indicate.

I've net yet watched Blu-Ray or DVD, but have streamed and now have an HD cable box. Since I don't have Blu-Ray I guess I can't really judge 24p performance. Not positive on that, as I can't seem to get a definitive answer on if a movie streamed, watched on cable or on demand is going to be in 24p?

My complaint isn't really about judder as I don't think I've been able to test that, although I did see a judder effect on South Park quite prominently, but that could be the content?

Anyhow, my complaint is more just like an extremely slight, but extremely annoying doubling or blurring with almost any motion, even just people moving at a walking pace or moving their head while talking, also even on slow horizontal or even vertical pans. It's hard to discuss this because people seem to be using different terminology or talking about different things. The reviews, for the most part, talk about motion performance in relation to 24p handling and since I'm seeing this on all movies I'd guess that's not what I'm experiencing. I also can't test out what I think about 60hz performance. I've heard many people say they like that better than even the proper 24p 96hz setting at times. I just don't know if in those cases they are talking about judder only and what I'd think of the general motion performance. What's the term for that?

When do I turn on 3:2 pulldown? Just on 1080i stuff? and what should it be helping with and what is the downside?

When watching football I'm not seeing any crazy doubling or skipping like on an LCD. In fact, this effect actually bothers me far less on fast action football than it does during normal, average speed people in a movie.

Is the ST60 better in this regard? I know it's motion handling is supposed to be better, but that's usually a reference to 24p. Is it better in general as well for motion? I'd hate to have to spend another 400 bucks just for that though.

Also, I'm surprised that only a small handful of us seem to think this tv is extremely noisy with dither. I was close to returning it on that aspect alone, until I discovered setting panel brightness to mid over low helped quite a bit, along with down a couple notches on the brightness and up on the Gamma. Helped a lot, but unfortunately effects one of the strong suits of the panel, the shadow detail as blacks are crushing a bit now.

I guess we're all sensitive to different things. Line bleed and ABL are non-issues for me. I rarely even see ABL. Makes me wonder if their is quite a bit of panel performance variety. I'd think if people were getting the dithering I am they'd definitely complain. Certain darker content is extremely noisy. I'd think this would bother a lot of people even more than myself because I'm a bit more accepting of it as it reminds me of film noise....most want a clean look. I do to of course, unless the film grain is actually there. wink.gif

I'd be exchanging this in a heartbeat if there was another worthy option. I'm considering the Sammy F5300, but hear the ABL is bad, though maybe I'm not sensitive to it as I don't see it on the Panny. I hear it's blacks are nowhere near as good despite Cnet giving them the same measurements.

While I'm at it, is there a game mode on this tv? I haven't seen it, but it keeps getting mentioned. Also, do you ever need to use the HDMI settings that are listed as graphics, photos, etc...? Where to set the color range? I never see these settings mentioned in the calibrators recommendations.


There is no such thing as a perfect TV. Even in the digital age, they all have their anomalies. The S60 is my second plasma and I also own an LCD. Whatever drawbacks there are with this set, they are minor and don't bother me. Based on on the reviews that I have read, and what I've seen from this set, this is a great TV. I have found that when it comes to product reviews these forums can be very subjective and sometimes unforgiving, so I did my research, played with the settings on the sets I viewed on display, and decided this was the best TV for me when it came to my budget and picture quality.


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post #5680 of 7124 Old 12-07-2013, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Oh, how I envy you movie lovers. I watched a couple of HD-DVDs a few days ago and this set is more of a movie lover's dream come true than a hardcore gamer's TV. Killer blacks, detailed pictures, sure it's no Kuro nor ST60, but for its price, this set really delivers. One thing I'd give this TV is that while the ABL is aggressive, at least it's ramping down gently, never abrupt. This kind of behavior seem to work very well for movies. (plus, many of the movies are 2.35:1, with black bars, giving the S60 an excellent breathing room for ABL) Motion problems are also far rarer for movies as well. (other than judder or 24hz conversion issues) I've only noticed phosphor lag on bright object like Happy Feet's bright ice, and compared to games, it really was mild that complaining about it would be way too nitpicking. Actually, I was able to discover more frames of animation for music videos that I've often watched on LCDs. For movies, it does have great motion performance.

Games exhibit different behaviour from the movies though and that's what we're talking about.

HP (1-3), Matrix (1&2), and Serenity HDs have been looking MAH-valous. biggrin.gif

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post #5681 of 7124 Old 12-07-2013, 01:17 PM
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For those afraid of reflections, here are daytime pix of my 65S60 setup on an overcast day.







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post #5682 of 7124 Old 12-07-2013, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by hbkmog View Post

Yep, the ABL is a little too aggressive. It's funny I tried to use it to browse web page occasionally and the whole screen will dim down but when I brought up menu by remote, it suddenly brightened up but then got dark again when I excited the menu. This is a firmware issue and technically can be resolved by a software update but I don't think Panasonic will update it anymore. I don't think it should be turned off but at least it could be better.

The motion blur on this set is indeed a bit sub par. Not only video game, if you pay attention enough during movie or TV show, sometimes you can also notice a double image when something's moving fast. I haven't owned a LED/LCD TV before so I don't know if they are really THAT worse compared to this particular plasma TV.

As for the brightness, I'm actually okay with it. I sometimes bump AGC to 1 if necessary, my naked eyes can't see how it deteriorate black level and color temperature.

Those are the only complaints I have for this TV. Considering I paid less than $500 for a S64 model, those complaints are very tolerable, lol. A brand new ST60 is certainly better than this but also doubles the price I paid for this TV.

I think for gaming raising the AGC to 1 IS necessary, it really makes a difference. I'm not too sure if i notice a hit in blacks with it being on, the only things i DO notice aside from the brightness gain, are the colors being amplified to the point of some 'slight' color detail crushing and certain shades of a color looking a bit lighter.
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post #5683 of 7124 Old 12-07-2013, 07:35 PM
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I don't know about you guys, I'm loving both of my S60's. I actually use them to watch TV. No complaints here.
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post #5684 of 7124 Old 12-07-2013, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by foghorn2 View Post

I don't know about you guys, I'm loving both of my S60's. I actually use them to watch TV. No complaints here.


Ditto. But I only have one.


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post #5685 of 7124 Old 12-07-2013, 10:05 PM
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So I'm close to 200hr's on my s60 and started playing some GTA5 today.
I'm disappointed  in the amount of jagged flickering edges I'm seeing,especially objects at a distance.
Things up close in first person view look great,for example following another vehicle,as soon as I pan out it looks like crap.
The 34ms. of lag I can kind of live with,but the motion blur can make you feel like you're drunk sometimes.


The monitor that I was using to game on was an AOC e2243Fw and didn't notice any of these things.
 

I'm using cnet settings
both CATS off
running at 1080p
using HDMI cable from a Directv DVR
any ideas or is this normal due to the screen size increase.

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post #5686 of 7124 Old 12-08-2013, 12:36 AM
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I'm new to the HDTV game, and after much research have finally purchased an S60 ($679 on Amazon). I have calibrated it using the settings recommended by CNET, and thus far, everything is great.  There is one tiny thing that has been bothering me that doesn't necessarily have to do with the image/TV experience itself: the left side of the screen seems to sag downwards a few degrees (just over 1/4' when moving from right to left). By chance, does anyone have any experience with this? I know it's quite OCD, but it bothers me when the TV is around numerous other things that are perfectly level in comparison (sound bar, TV stand, etc.). I'd like to address this so that the entire screen is more level. The screws in the mount are properly tightened, and all I can think of is to wedge something between the stand and the bottom of the screen on the left side so that the sag is compensated for and the screen appears level. Of course, that would look tacky. Any ideas? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

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post #5687 of 7124 Old 12-08-2013, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mofongotron View Post

I'm new to the HDTV game, and after much research have finally purchased an S60 ($679 on Amazon). I have calibrated it using the settings recommended by CNET, and thus far, everything is great.  There is one tiny thing that has been bothering me that doesn't necessarily have to do with the image/TV experience itself: the left side of the screen seems to sag downwards a few degrees (just over 1/4' when moving from right to left). By chance, does anyone have any experience with this? I know it's quite OCD, but it bothers me when the TV is around numerous other things that are perfectly level in comparison (sound bar, TV stand, etc.). I'd like to address this so that the entire screen is more level. The screws in the mount are properly tightened, and all I can think of is to wedge something between the stand and the bottom of the screen on the left side so that the sag is compensated for and the screen appears level. Of course, that would look tacky. Any ideas? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Make sure the mount is properly/fully seated in the stand. It might not be.
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post #5688 of 7124 Old 12-08-2013, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

Make sure the mount is properly/fully seated in the stand. It might not be.


Even then, you will still get some movement when touching the set. They could have made the mount larger. My 2010 model's stand has a wide mount and is much more secure.



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post #5689 of 7124 Old 12-08-2013, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post


Make sure the mount is properly/fully seated in the stand. It might not be.

As far as I can tell, the mount is fully seated in the stand. Could I potentially loosen the screws connecting the two, adjust the panel so that it is level, and then retighten the screws?

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post #5690 of 7124 Old 12-08-2013, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foghorn2 View Post

I don't know about you guys, I'm loving both of my S60's. I actually use them to watch TV. No complaints here.

If i weren't a gamer i wouldn't of even bothered with the S60. It's a great TV no doubt, but it's a wee' bit disappointing in terms of brightness and motion handling. People would be better off saving up the extra pennies and going for the ST60, which has the edge in brightness(I would of dropped the extra money for this alone), Better motion, deeper blacks, Anti glare filter and 3D.
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post #5691 of 7124 Old 12-08-2013, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

If i weren't a gamer i wouldn't of even bothered with the S60. It's a great TV no doubt, but it's a wee' bit disappointing in terms of brightness and motion handling. People would be better off saving up the extra pennies and going for the ST60, which has the edge in brightness(I would of dropped the extra money for this alone), Better motion, deeper blacks, Anti glare filter and 3D.


I've read the reviews (see CNET's remarks) and I have compared both the S60 and ST60 and the ST60 isn't all that brighter. Both are very close in terms of black levels and PQ under controlled lighting conditions. As Lee Neikirk at review.com told me, non of these panels are all that bright. I've owned two plasmas and an LCD and this set is bright enough for me, even with the brightness set to low. If you feel plasmas are too dim and you're not happy with the motion on your set, again, there are plenty of quality LCD's with local dimming that may be more suitable for you.


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Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

If i weren't a gamer i wouldn't of even bothered with the S60. It's a great TV no doubt, but it's a wee' bit disappointing in terms of brightness and motion handling. People would be better off saving up the extra pennies and going for the ST60, which has the edge in brightness(I would of dropped the extra money for this alone), Better motion, deeper blacks, Anti glare filter and 3D.

VT60 if you really want the superior panel, and also get lower latency than the ST60 to boot. smile.gif

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post #5693 of 7124 Old 12-08-2013, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

VT60 if you really want the superior panel, and also get lower latency than the ST60 to boot. smile.gif


He won't like the VT60. No way is it bright enough.



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post #5694 of 7124 Old 12-08-2013, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

I've read the reviews (see CNET's remarks) and I have compared both the S60 and ST60 and the ST60 isn't all that brighter. Both are very close in terms of black levels and PQ under controlled lighting conditions. As Lee Neikirk at review.com told me, non of these panels are all that bright. I've owned two plasmas and an LCD and this set is bright enough for me, even with the brightness set to low. If you feel plasmas are too dim and you're not happy with the motion on your set, again, there are plenty of quality LCD's with local dimming that may be more suitable for you.


Ian

Name one LED that can' even match the sub-par motion handleing of the S60 without having to resort to gimmicky features like Impulse mode that drops half the amount of brightness and increases input lag? There's none. :P What good is HD or even SD when that DrunkOvision motion smearing completely smothers detail whenever things are moving beyond snails pace> I've been there, done that with both LCD and LED and i won't bother with either technology for that reason alone. I tried to adjust, but the motion just killed it for me. The 8500 Sammy plasma has amazing brightness , more than i could ask for but again it's 53ms or gaming is just too much, otherwise i would of been sold on the 60" even if it took 2 or 3 more months to save up the extra cash.

Like i said, i've settled with maxing the contrast in custom mode, brightness to '0', setting Panel Brightness to MID(High washes out the picture, sigh) and raising the AGC to '1' . It just kind of riks me a teeny bit knowing that AGC even at '1' has a slight negative impact on color detail crushing and that it lightens certain objects/shadows that would normally appear a tiny bit darker without the AGC being used. Oh well, i'm still pretty happy with the set. NO set is perfect, and when you're a gamer you are severely limmited on what's available if you even CARE about button response.
The 60" 8500 would of been my TV of choice, but due to this giant input lag ordeal i've settled with the S60.....I couldn't bare anything over 34ms, 34ms is already high enough. games are still playable, but they don't perform 'on the dime' or feel as kinetic and fluid on lets say my lag free crt. it is what is.
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post #5695 of 7124 Old 12-08-2013, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Name one LED that can' even match the sub-par motion handleing of the S60 without having to resort to gimmicky features like Impulse mode that drops half the amount of brightness and increases input lag? There's none. :P What good is HD or even SD when that DrunkOvision motion smearing completely smothers detail whenever things are moving beyond snails pace> I've been there, done that with both LCD and LED and i won't bother with either technology for that reason alone. I tried to adjust, but the motion just killed it for me. The 8500 Sammy plasma has amazing brightness , more than i could ask for but again it's 53ms or gaming is just too much, otherwise i would of been sold on the 60" even if it took 2 or 3 more months to save up the extra cash.

Like i said, i've settled with maxing the contrast in custom mode, brightness to '0', setting Panel Brightness to MID(High washes out the picture, sigh) and raising the AGC to '1' . It just kind of riks me a teeny bit knowing that AGC even at '1' has a slight negative impact on color detail crushing and that it lightens certain objects/shadows that would normally appear a tiny bit darker without the AGC being used. Oh well, i'm still pretty happy with the set. NO set is perfect, and when you're a gamer you are severely limmited on what's available if you even CARE about button response.
The 60" 8500 would of been my TV of choice, but due to this giant input lag ordeal i've settled with the S60.....I couldn't bare anything over 34ms, 34ms is already high enough. games are still playable, but they don't perform 'on the dime' or feel as kinetic and fluid on lets say my lag free crt. it is what is.


I guess I'm glad I'm not a gamer. I come from a generation that believes that playing chess and backgammon is good enough.


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Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

setting Panel Brightness to MID(High washes out the picture, sigh)

You know if you change the Panel Brightness you then need to adjust the Brightness to not lose shadow detail (clip blacks) or wash out the image. During turkey day I was at my nephew's house, and he had a shiny new Xbox One connected to his S60 and it looked great. The xbox one now has integrated calibration patterns which really help to fine-tune the brightness and contrast settings on the TV. I do agree though that using Panel Brightness on High is bad with this set because it increased the noise in the picture which is visible with more dithering in dark scenes.

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post #5697 of 7124 Old 12-08-2013, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

I guess I'm glad I'm not a gamer. I come from a generation that believes that playing chess and backgammon is good enough.


Ian biggrin.gif

haha, well it's what you grew up with after all. As a kid of the 80's and early 90's i grew up with a slew of MB board games(Operation, Quicksand, you name it) and Nintendo(NES which was released in 85') and those years were thee golden age of gaming for a reason. Outside of Nintendo these days i don't game that much. I bet i could take you in a mean game of checkers. wink.giftongue.gif
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post #5698 of 7124 Old 12-08-2013, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

You know if you change the Panel Brightness you then need to adjust the Brightness to not lose shadow detail (clip blacks) or wash out the image. During turkey day I was at my nephew's house, and he had a shiny new Xbox One connected to his S60 and it looked great. The xbox one now has integrated calibration patterns which really help to fine-tune the brightness and contrast settings on the TV. I do agree though that using Panel Brightness on High is bad with this set because it increased the noise in the picture which is visible with more dithering in dark scenes.

So if PB is set to MID, and contrast is set to 100 with a gamma of 2.4 in custom mode where would you stick brightness? I have it at default '0' which seems to be the case for most peoples custom settings online. And yeah, it's dissapointing that 'High' seems to slightly wash out the picture, i noticed that darker shades of an object for example, lets say a tree become lighter, almost as if it's flattening out the picture. Not recommended, unless you plan on dialing back brightness...but if you're going to do that then you might as well just set it at MID. tongue.gif
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Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

So if PB is set to MID, and contrast is set to 100 with a gamma of 2.4 in custom mode where would you stick brightness? I have it at default '0' which seems to be the case for most peoples custom settings online. And yeah, it's dissapointing that 'High' seems to slightly wash out the picture, i noticed that darker shades of an object for example, lets say a tree become lighter, almost as if it's flattening out the picture. Not recommended, unless you plan on dialing back brightness...but if you're going to do that then you might as well just set it at MID. tongue.gif

I don't know off the top of my head, which is why I always recommend you test out with patterns to make sure at the very least your contrast and brightness are optimal, since those have the biggest impact on details in the picture. There are numerous free calibration discs that you can just pop in your blu-ray player and play with the different settings, remember to check that brightness and contrast are set properly after every change. (if you have a PS3/PS4/XBOX ONE, if you have an XBOX360, then you are out of luck unless you want to look for MP4 versions of the patterns you need)

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post #5700 of 7124 Old 12-08-2013, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mofongotron View Post

As far as I can tell, the mount is fully seated in the stand. Could I potentially loosen the screws connecting the two, adjust the panel so that it is level, and then retighten the screws?

Yes, just slightly loosen the screws and nudge the TV until it's level with the table top at the far left and right corners then carefully tighten them again and re-check the corners to make sure it didn't move. I had to do this on my 55ST60 and also on my 50GT50 last years, as well as a number of other people here in the past few years.

Caution - the screw heads are pretty soft and the phillips slot strips easily so be sure to use a #2 size Phillips tip and press firmly so it doesn't slip out of the slot while tightening (and when loosening too). Some people stripped theirs so be careful.

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