Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 214 - AVS Forum
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post #6391 of 7176 Old 01-30-2014, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by xenon9887 View Post

No question. Watched Skyfall the other day and man did that look good. Especially the night time casino/gamehouse scenes, man do the deep blacks of these sets make those scenes pop.

Watching them on an LCD just doesn't hold up.

When LCD came out for TV I have never liked the color on them. Fine for computer work but for movies never got use to it. I held onto a beast of a HDTV CRT till I could get my first Plasma(panny 42" 720p) and now I got this 1080p 50".
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post #6392 of 7176 Old 02-01-2014, 11:44 PM
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Yes, please do report. Thanks.

 

Sorry it took so long for me to get back on this, but I finally managed to install the new 2.211 drivers this evening, and it looks like the edge-enhancement in the 1080p Pixel Direct feature is either greatly diminished, or completely gone after the installation.


However, when I turn 1080p Pixel Direct on, it also seems to be adding a noticeable green push to my HDMI YCbCr 4:4:4 source (a Sony Blu-ray player in this case). This is on HDMI input #1 btw. I can eliminate the green push though by switching my Blu-ray player's output to RGB. The 1080p Pixel Direct feature works with both the RGB and YCbCr 4:4:4 color modes on my player. It does not work with YCbCr 4:2:2 though.


If I turn the 1080p Pixel Direct feature OFF, then the green push also disappears in the YCbCr 4:4:4 mode. So the problem appears to be in that feature on the display, rather than in the player. (Or so it would seem.)


What does this feature do btw?... It looks like it might be switching the display's sub-pixel rendering off and on.


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post #6393 of 7176 Old 02-02-2014, 12:06 AM
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Two other quick questions for anyone who cares to answer them...


I picked up a Samsung 51" 5300 plasma to try a well, and have been comparing the two displays side by side, trying to decide which I like more. And it's not as easy a decision as I was hoping. The Panny has noticeably deeper blacks, but I think I like the motion on the Sammy better (though it does have a more noticeable flicker).


The Panasonic appears to be using some type of interlacing procedure to deepen it's blacks. And I was wondering if there was any way to turn that procedure OFF (even though it would probably brighten the display's MLL). Sorry I don't know Panasonic's technical jargon for this procedure, but if you look closely at a black screen and move your eyes or head slightly up or down, you can see a temporal gap form between the horizontal rows of pixels, just like on an interlaced CRT television. The Sammy doesn't have this interlacing effect.


The Sammy also has a feature that allows you to selectively display only the red, or green, or blue pixels, which eliminates the need for color filters when making basic color/tint adjustments. And I was wondering if there was some way to do that on the Panasonic as well.

 

Any thoughts on the above would be welcome.


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post #6394 of 7176 Old 02-02-2014, 12:28 PM
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Sorry if this has been answered multiple times, but heres my scenario,-

 

Have a Panasonic s60 65" and x60 50" I use for watching college football. Got both sets in October and have watched them for 12+ hours every saturday since. From what I understand I should NOT do the slides now. Am I good to enter the D-nice settings and consider the TV viewing hours that Ive done a good enough break in period?  Thanks

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post #6395 of 7176 Old 02-02-2014, 07:10 PM
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the slides from D-Nice are not for break in.. all they do is age the phosphors equally and at an accelerated rate.  The main purpose is to encourage screen uniformity.  This way all the phosphors are aged the same and capable of delivering the same levels of brightness.

 

How many total hours are on each display?  If more than 300, and you've watched mostly full screen content without a static logo for long periods of time, then just enter whatever settings you want that look good to you and go with that.

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post #6396 of 7176 Old 02-03-2014, 05:50 AM
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But there would be no harm in using the D-nice settings right?

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post #6397 of 7176 Old 02-03-2014, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by molibra View Post

But there would be no harm in using the D-nice settings right?

You can't hurt a tv by changing the picture settings, you can enter which ever ones you like at any time you like. The only thing to be careful of really is contrast, setting that too high too soon can increase the sets susceptibility to IR since the phosphors will be brighter more often.

I would also recommend fairchild's settings more than d-nice since fairchild's are for this specific model of tv.

Of course at the end of the day it is what ever looks best to you.
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post #6398 of 7176 Old 02-03-2014, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by xenon9887 View Post


You can't hurt a tv by changing the picture settings, you can enter which ever ones you like at any time you like. The only thing to be careful of really is contrast, setting that too high too soon can increase the sets susceptibility to IR since the phosphors will be brighter more often.

I would also recommend fairchild's settings more than d-nice since fairchild's are for this specific model of tv.

Of course at the end of the day it is what ever looks best to you.

Thanks!

 

Another question though, fairchild has three different settings. Which one would I want to use for mostly sports watching? Tv is in a man cave with minimal natural lighting and adjustable lights in TV area.

 

Thanks again

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post #6399 of 7176 Old 02-03-2014, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by molibra View Post

Thanks!

Another question though, fairchild has three different settings. Which one would I want to use for mostly sports watching? Tv is in a man cave with minimal natural lighting and adjustable lights in TV area.

Thanks again

Which ever looks best to you.

If you look at the actual settings he arrived at they are all very similar. As his set ages he just compensates for the slight variations to bring it back to where it is supposed to be. Usually the major changes he plays with are maybe a slightly different gamma setting or similar.

Just plug them in and see which one you like best. Since these aren't measured from your set this is in no way a calibration, so it is just what looks good to your eye.
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post #6400 of 7176 Old 02-03-2014, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADU View Post

Two other quick questions for anyone who cares to answer them...


I picked up a Samsung 51" 5300 plasma to try a well, and have been comparing the two displays side by side, trying to decide which I like more. And it's not as easy a decision as I was hoping. The Panny has noticeably deeper blacks, but I think I like the motion on the Sammy better (though it does have a more noticeable flicker).


The Panasonic appears to be using some type of interlacing procedure to deepen it's blacks. And I was wondering if there was any way to turn that procedure OFF (even though it would probably brighten the display's MLL). Sorry I don't know Panasonic's technical jargon for this procedure, but if you look closely at a black screen and move your eyes or head slightly up or down, you can see a temporal gap form between the horizontal rows of pixels, just like on an interlaced CRT television. The Sammy doesn't have this interlacing effect.


The Sammy also has a feature that allows you to selectively display only the red, or green, or blue pixels, which eliminates the need for color filters when making basic color/tint adjustments. And I was wondering if there was some way to do that on the Panasonic as well.

Any thoughts on the above would be welcome.

Just curious, which one is brighter and by how much at peak brightness?
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post #6401 of 7176 Old 02-03-2014, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Just curious, which one is brighter and by how much at peak brightness?

I have compared these two sets several times and have posted my observations. After spending quite some time playing with each sets settings in the movie/cinema modes, I have found that despite the higher peak brightness of the 5300, the higher contrast and lower reflectivity of the S60 has it looking brighter with more pop in a bright room environment. However, in a dimmer environment, I would suspect that both these sets are very close and shouldn't have any real impact on the over all picture quality.

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post #6402 of 7176 Old 02-03-2014, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post


Just curious, which one is brighter and by how much at peak brightness?

 

I didn't take any actual readings on either display, but with both TVs comparably configured in their Movie/Cinema modes, the Panasonic seemed to have noticeably brighter peak whites at the maximum Contrast settings.


The Panasonic just had greater contrast all around, because of it's deeper blacks and brighter whites. The brighter you set the Contrast though, the more you're going to notice the ABL (brightness limiter) on all white or high APL (average picture level) imagery.


I did not notice any ABL on the Panny with Contrast settings of 50 or below though. So I think the ABL only begins to cut in above that setting, within the 50-100 range.


The P50S60 was a floor model btw, with about 3700 hours of use on it (probably in Vivid mode). So a new TV fresh out the box would probably be even brighter than the unit I tested.


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post #6403 of 7176 Old 02-03-2014, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post


I have compared these two sets several times and have posted my observations. After spending quite some time playing with each sets settings in the movie/cinema modes, I have found that despite the higher peak brightness of the 5300, the higher contrast and lower reflectivity of the S60 has it looking brighter with more pop in a bright room environment. However, in a dimmer environment, I would suspect that both these sets are very close and shouldn't have any real impact on the over all picture quality.

Ian

 

FWIW, I never ran either display close to their maximum settings in my actual viewing conditions. So what I perceived as potentially brighter peak whites on the Panny had litte or no practical benefit in my case.


Did you have any thoughts on the "interlacing procedure" that I also noticed on the Panasonic btw, Ian? I'm guessin that feature is probably "hard-wired" into the display, but was just sort of curious if there might be some way to disable it.

 

Unfortunately, I had to return the P50S60 over the weekend, but I'm still interested in the differences between these displays.


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post #6404 of 7176 Old 02-03-2014, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ADU View Post

Did you have any thoughts on the "interlacing procedure" that I also noticed on the Panasonic btw, Ian? I'm guessin that feature is probably "hard-wired" into the display, but was just sort of curious if there might be some way to disable it.

I never really notice it on my set.


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post #6405 of 7176 Old 02-03-2014, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

I never really notice it on my set.


Ian

Me neither. I no longer have my LG plasma to compare with, but I can't find the symptom you're talking about. My only complaints with this set is with phosphor trails, line bleeding,ABL, and slight IR.
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post #6406 of 7176 Old 02-03-2014, 10:23 PM
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You have to put your nose up pretty close to the screen to see the "interlacing" effect I'm referring to. (I'm sure Panasonic has a proprietary name for this procedure btw, but I don't what it is.) It's easiest to see on a totally black image in a dark room. If you move your eyes up or down slightly, you'll see momentary "gaps" form between alternating rows of pixels, similar to the interlacing of scanlines on a CRT TV. The Sammy doesn't exhibit this behavior.


I don't know about the other models, but it definitely appears as though Panasonic is using some type of alternating line technique on the S60 plasma TVs to help deepen their blacks.


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post #6407 of 7176 Old 02-04-2014, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ADU View Post

You have to put your nose up pretty close to the screen to see the "interlacing" effect I'm referring to. (I'm sure Panasonic has a proprietary name for this procedure btw, but I don't what it is.) It's easiest to see on a totally black image in a dark room. If you move your eyes up or down slightly, you'll see momentary "gaps" form between alternating rows of pixels, similar to the interlacing of scanlines on a CRT TV. The Sammy doesn't exhibit this behavior.


I don't know about the other models, but it definitely appears as though Panasonic is using some type of alternating line technique on the S60 plasma TVs to help deepen their blacks.

You're right, I can see those alternating scanlines now. I did have to put my nose close to the screen like you said. It does look kinda similiar to PWM noises I've seen on my previous LG plasma, but nowhere near as obvious. Now I understand where dithering is coming from.
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post #6408 of 7176 Old 02-04-2014, 01:04 AM
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Ahh, so I'm not crazy.

 

I couldn't find anything about 'plasma scanlines' online. I was wondering if something was wrong with my set.

 

I only notice it in blacks, and it's completely invisible unless I'm right up against the screen, so I don't care, I was just curious.

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post #6409 of 7176 Old 02-04-2014, 07:41 PM
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Hello all,

I know I am way late to the game, but my Samsung LCD is on the blink, and I am on the prowl for a new or demo unit. The unit will be used exclusively for PC gaming, and acting as a monitor, via HDMI.

I have been reading about how good the S60 Panny Plasmas are, and also how they are getting scarce.

So, I was wondering what you all think. I found a demo 50" S60 on the wall at a local store. It has a new price of 999, but in speaking with the manager, he agreed to let it go for 699 without a stand or remote.

Can this Tv cut the mustard as a gaming monitor (I want to input a 120Hz signal), and if so are there any thoughts on it being a demo sans stand and remote?

Any and all thoughts are greatly appreciate as always.

TIA,

WW
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post #6410 of 7176 Old 02-05-2014, 03:15 AM
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WooferWrecker, seeing as the 65" S64 was going for around $1100 new by Black Friday at Sam's, I'd try to talk him down to below $600. The 60" U60s were going for $700 new last year when I was shopping for a plasma. I'll think it's about the best plasma for a gaming monitor as it has one of the lowest input lags.
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post #6411 of 7176 Old 02-05-2014, 05:58 AM
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aI agree with HDTimeShifter... $999 for a 50" S60 NEW IN BOX is $300 too much, as that was the price of the 55".  The 50" was $699.  For a display model, I'd want at least $50-100 off.. but then it has NO stand and NO remote which will cost you about $50 to replace the two... I would buy it if he would sell it for $500 ish.. 

 

As long as the seller doesnt realize he has you over a barrel if you REALLY want it.. as its no longer available and whatever you find is all you're ever going to get. 


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post #6412 of 7176 Old 02-05-2014, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WooferWrecker View Post

Hello all,

I know I am way late to the game, but my Samsung LCD is on the blink, and I am on the prowl for a new or demo unit. The unit will be used exclusively for PC gaming, and acting as a monitor, via HDMI.

I have been reading about how good the S60 Panny Plasmas are, and also how they are getting scarce.

So, I was wondering what you all think. I found a demo 50" S60 on the wall at a local store. It has a new price of 999, but in speaking with the manager, he agreed to let it go for 699 without a stand or remote.

Can this Tv cut the mustard as a gaming monitor (I want to input a 120Hz signal), and if so are there any thoughts on it being a demo sans stand and remote?

Any and all thoughts are greatly appreciate as always.

TIA,

WW

Plasma is not the right choice for a strictly gaming television, and certainly not for PC use. I also have doubts about the set being able to accept a 120hz signal, and it certinaly won't display it as this is a strictly 60hz television (Don't let the 600hz advertised fool you, it is a marketing gimmick and does not relate to how many frames it can display per second). I really do not think an s60 would be a wise choice for your use case.
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post #6413 of 7176 Old 02-05-2014, 06:47 AM
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Agreed again.. for a strictly gaming display or a PC monitor.. I wouldnt go plasma.. I'd find a really nice Sony or Vizio LCD with all the bells and whistles I was looking for.. might have to sacrifice 5-10" of screen size to stay at the same price however.

 

I watch bluray movies and HD cable almost exclusively, as does the rest of the family.. HD reality TV for the wife and animated content for the kid.. so for us Plasma was obvious.. but for you WW, might want to think about a nice mid-high end LCD.

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post #6414 of 7176 Old 02-05-2014, 12:24 PM
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There was some talk a while back about buying these sets and returning them. I don't advocate buying something with the intention to return it, especially something as bulky as a large-screen TV, but the following article is another reason not to buy from Best Buy (ridiculously short return window of 15 days!) and Amazon (30 day window). Also note most on the list track users so they can refuse those who have a habit of excessive returns.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/think-twice-returning-items-5-153012322.html
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post #6415 of 7176 Old 02-05-2014, 12:30 PM
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Question for fellow owners: When playing blu-rays, are you feeding your set 1080p/60 or 1080p/24? Do you notice any meaningful differences between the two?

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Question for fellow owners: When playing blu-rays, are you feeding your set 1080p/60 or 1080p/24? Do you notice any meaningful differences between the two?


I find setting the player to display the native 1080p/24 renders a smoother picture. I experienced the same result with my older Panasonic C2 plasma.


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post #6417 of 7176 Old 02-06-2014, 04:46 AM
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on this set with 1080p/24 you do get some flicker however... which I suppose is how real film would be. The flicker is only noticeable on bright scenes as well.. and how much you notice depends on your eyes and the room your viewing in, as ambient lighting will affect it some. It is definitely smoother however.. As to if its "better" or not than 60fps, eh.. debatable with no clear winner. 

 

I guess on something like The Dark Knight.. i'd be more inclined to output 1080p/24 .. all the dark scenes would easily mask the flicker.. on a fairly bright movie.. Life of Pi for example.. it might get annoying.


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post #6418 of 7176 Old 02-06-2014, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynesjc View Post

Question for fellow owners: When playing blu-rays, are you feeding your set 1080p/60 or 1080p/24? Do you notice any meaningful differences between the two?

The general consensus around here has been not to send a 24hz signal to the s60/s64, meaning let your playback device handle the conversion from 24hz to 60hz, which usually nets a better result.
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post #6419 of 7176 Old 02-06-2014, 08:53 AM
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The general consensus around here has been not to send a 24hz signal to the s60/s64, meaning let your playback device handle the conversion from 24hz to 60hz, which usually nets a better result.


I've tried it both ways and I watch 2 to 3 BD's a week and haven't seen any noticeable flicker or judder on my S60 with my player outputting 24p. The same goes for my C2 Panasonic PDP. I also stream Netflix Super HD regularly which also outputs 24p, and again, I rarely have any issues with this TV.


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post #6420 of 7176 Old 02-06-2014, 10:53 AM
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the only two blurays ive played on my S60 and tried at 24p are How to Train Your Dragon and Thor.  Both have noticeable flicker on bright scenes.. come to think of it, mostly jsut sky shots.. or shots where the sky is visible in the background.


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