Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 220 - AVS Forum
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post #6571 of 7175 Old 03-08-2014, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

The S60 I'll admit, looks amazing when the AGC & BE are both maxed at 15 when watching film with gamma at 2.4(for the 60"), contrast set to max, color at either 46 or 47, and panel brightness set to MID. Sure there will be a bit of darkening around hair, objects and here and there, along with a bit of color detail crushing and slight change in color accuracy, But it's a lot brighter, has a lot of pop & sculpt to it,, is far more immersive, dynamic, and is a HELL OF A LOT better than it was with both settings turned off. I can't go back to having both on zero. The picture now looks alive. eek.gif I was watching the amazing spider man on bluray last night(i know i know, i'm a little late on this one...) and after being bummed out by the naturally dim picture i said "Funk it" and ramped up the AGC and BE to max and was instantly blown away by the difference. This will tide me over nicely until i upgrade later on this year with the H7000, if it's input lag is ideal that is. There's also a chance that i may take the plunge into LED, with the Vizio P series or whatever else other companies have to offer.

I've been playing some games on my set for awhile and I discovered this set does take some warming up before ABL loosens up a bit. Just a slight difference, but I think it's there. I thought I'd never be able to enjoy cartoony games like Sonic Heroes and Grandia3 on my set, but using 4:3, it helps tremendously. I'm already liking it better than the Sony LCD I've used. The colors are simply more vibrant. Yeah, I'm like "To hell with color accuracy" and playing with AGC at 15 on colorful games. I'll have to put up with slight inconvenience before buying the H7000, but there are more games I'm satisfied with than the ones I'm disappointed in, so that in itself is a winner to me. After getting used to plasmas, it's difficult to go back to CRTs too. Those juicy ANSI contrast ratio is simply lacking in my CRT.

Halo3, as ugly as it is with sub-720p resolution, also looks great with relative pop on bumb mapped objects. It seems heat effect is this plasma's best forte. So transparent compared to the Sony LCD I've used. It seems any games that use motion blur greatly weakens 30hz judder. I really hated playing Kameo because of judder, but for Halo3, I have no complaints. Ditto for Project Gotham Racing which also features motion blur.
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post #6572 of 7175 Old 03-08-2014, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

The S60 I'll admit, looks amazing when the AGC & BE are both maxed at 15 when watching film with gamma at 2.4(for the 60"), contrast set to max, color at either 46 or 47, and panel brightness set to MID. Sure there will be a bit of darkening around hair, objects and here and there, along with a bit of color detail crushing and slight change in color accuracy, But it's a lot brighter, has a lot of pop & sculpt to it,, is far more immersive, dynamic, and is a HELL OF A LOT better than it was with both settings turned off. I can't go back to having both on zero. The picture now looks alive. eek.gif I was watching the amazing spider man on bluray last night(i know i know, i'm a little late on this one...) and after being bummed out by the naturally dim picture i said "Funk it" and ramped up the AGC and BE to max and was instantly blown away by the difference. This will tide me over nicely until i upgrade later on this year with the H7000, if it's input lag is ideal that is. There's also a chance that i may take the plunge into LED, with the Vizio P series or whatever else other companies have to offer.

Interesting. Does having the BE cranked up that high not crush all the dark areas of the screen with the attendant loss of shadow detail? And what about chroma noise, especially in skin tones? I have a 60ST60, and have similarly been disappointed with its brightness and ability to "pop". When I first got the TV, I briefly played around with the AGC and BE, but I only cranked them a small amount.

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post #6573 of 7175 Old 03-08-2014, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

Interesting. Does having the BE cranked up that high not crush all the dark areas of the screen with the attendant loss of shadow detail? And what about chroma noise, especially in skin tones? I have a 60ST60, and have similarly been disappointed with its brightness and ability to "pop". When I first got the TV, I briefly played around with the AGC and BE, but I only cranked them a small amount.


I believe you need to back up on this thread a bit. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1461177/official-panasonic-s60-series-discussion-thread/6400_100#post_24422524 wink.gif


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post #6574 of 7175 Old 03-09-2014, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mtrot View Post

Interesting. Does having the BE cranked up that high not crush all the dark areas of the screen with the attendant loss of shadow detail? And what about chroma noise, especially in skin tones? I have a 60ST60, and have similarly been disappointed with its brightness and ability to "pop". When I first got the TV, I briefly played around with the AGC and BE, but I only cranked them a small amount.

You probably wouldn't be happy with it as it comes with it's own slew of issues. again, it's a matter of picking your poison. With AGC and BE set to 0, the picture is lifeless(i'm sure you'll agree), dim and even flat....like i mentioned earlier, the grooves, shadows and what have you in clothing,objects(ect ect) are too light creating an unrealistic drab picture. Sided with my CRT, the s60 falls flat. However, using black extention helps enormously, that is if you don't mind a little black/shadow crushing and the darkening of hair(depending,ect) Try AGC: 7 and BE: 7, or max both. it now gives the picture a boost in bightnest, pop and a lot of sculpt. it basically comes alive. it's similar to my CRT, but with BE this high the set does exibit a bit of black crush and unwanted darkening in certain areas. I can deal though, instead of default AGC: 0 & BE: 0.
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post #6575 of 7175 Old 03-09-2014, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

I've been playing some games on my set for awhile and I discovered this set does take some warming up before ABL loosens up a bit. Just a slight difference, but I think it's there. I thought I'd never be able to enjoy cartoony games like Sonic Heroes and Grandia3 on my set, but using 4:3, it helps tremendously. I'm already liking it better than the Sony LCD I've used. The colors are simply more vibrant. Yeah, I'm like "To hell with color accuracy" and playing with AGC at 15 on colorful games. I'll have to put up with slight inconvenience before buying the H7000, but there are more games I'm satisfied with than the ones I'm disappointed in, so that in itself is a winner to me. After getting used to plasmas, it's difficult to go back to CRTs too. Those juicy ANSI contrast ratio is simply lacking in my CRT.

Halo3, as ugly as it is with sub-720p resolution, also looks great with relative pop on bumb mapped objects. It seems heat effect is this plasma's best forte. So transparent compared to the Sony LCD I've used. It seems any games that use motion blur greatly weakens 30hz judder. I really hated playing Kameo because of judder, but for Halo3, I have no complaints. Ditto for Project Gotham Racing which also features motion blur.

720p games on the S60 just don't look as good as they should vs a 720p native set, and at 60" being 11 feet away(1 foot too close for 720p content at this size) the end result is, well....Not amazing. :P

I'd imagine at 10 feet away from a 50" 720p 4500 the picture would look a lot better. But i can't be bothered to plunk a 50" in my living room, let a lone take a noticeable downgrade in black levels by going with the 4500. tongue.gif

If only 1080p/60fps games were the standard....720p upsaced to 1080p doesn't look as good, and 30fps create that nasty frame doubling/effect. I find gaming on HDTV's to be a bit of a broken experience. Motion blur, Scaling, input lag, ABL, frame doubling for 30fps titles(ect) tongue.gif
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post #6576 of 7175 Old 03-09-2014, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

You probably wouldn't be happy with it as it comes with it's own slew of issues. again, it's a matter of picking your poison. With AGC and BE set to 0, the picture is lifeless(i'm sure you'll agree), dim and even flat....like i mentioned earlier, the grooves, shadows and what have you in clothing,objects(ect ect) are too light creating an unrealistic drab picture. Sided with my CRT, the s60 falls flat. However, using black extention helps enormously, that is if you don't mind a little black/shadow crushing and the darkening of hair(depending,ect) Try AGC: 7 and BE: 7, or max both. it now gives the picture a boost in bightnest, pop and a lot of sculpt. it basically comes alive. it's similar to my CRT, but with BE this high the set does exibit a bit of black crush and unwanted darkening in certain areas. I can deal though, instead of default AGC: 0 & BE: 0.

rolleyes.gif

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post #6577 of 7175 Old 03-09-2014, 09:17 AM
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One negative thing about this set (and I understand all the 2013 Panny Plasmas) is the slight amount of non-defeatable artificial sharpening added to the image. This was not present on the 2012 sets, so I wonder why they added it.
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post #6578 of 7175 Old 03-09-2014, 09:26 AM
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We get it...Your name's Ian, nobody cares.
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post #6579 of 7175 Old 03-09-2014, 10:13 AM
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Looks at the bottom of every single one of your posts...

We get it...Your name's Ian, nobody cares.

We get it already. You have issues with plasmas and the S60. Time to put you on my ignore list.


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post #6580 of 7175 Old 03-09-2014, 01:03 PM
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Time to put you on my ignore list.

And with that, hundreds of ignore lists around the world rejoiced.
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post #6581 of 7175 Old 03-09-2014, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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720p games on the S60 just don't look as good as they should vs a 720p native set, and at 60" being 11 feet away(1 foot too close for 720p content at this size) the end result is, well....Not amazing. :P

AFAIK nobody makes a 720p native Plasma.
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post #6582 of 7175 Old 03-09-2014, 04:30 PM
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Looks at the bottom of every single one of your posts...

We get it...Your name's Ian, nobody cares.

 

GET OUT. With you and your negativity towards plasma's. I bought an s60 for my very first tv that I've ever owned. I'm happy and I'm damn well proud of it too. 

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post #6583 of 7175 Old 03-09-2014, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Looks at the bottom of every single one of your posts...


We get it...Your name's Ian, nobody cares.

GET OUT. With you and your negativity towards plasma's. I bought an s60 for my very first tv that I've ever owned. I'm happy and I'm damn well proud of it too. 

And with that, hundreds of ignore lists around the world sighed once again.
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post #6584 of 7175 Old 03-09-2014, 09:22 PM
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Hello guys! I just got a new 50'' S60. Is there anything I should do before playing games on it? I saw a thread made by D-Nice which recommended doing a 100 hour settings prep on it, which I was thinking about doing. Most settings I see from people are with sets that have over 1000 hours on it, so it made me wonder, should I do the prep? Is there anything else I should do? What can I do to protect against IR? Any other advice you could share with a first time plasma owner? Thanks!

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post #6585 of 7175 Old 03-09-2014, 09:29 PM
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Hello guys! I just got a new 50'' S60. Is there anything I should do before playing games on it? I saw a thread made by D-Nice which recommended doing a 100 hour settings prep on it, which I was thinking about doing. Most settings I see from people are with sets that have over 1000 hours on it, so it made me wonder, should I do the prep? Is there anything else I should do? What can I do to protect against IR? Any other advice you could share with a first time plasma owner? Thanks!

Doesn't hurt to try, although frankly, I never did any prep and started gaming right away. The IR was heavy for the first few hundred hours, but things got better with time and I rarely notice any IRs.

Contrary to what anyone says, plasmas are very newbie friendly. I personally find it easier than dealing with uniformity problems on LCDs. Just make sure to mix contents and IRs should go away quickly. I recommend running slides once a few months to clean up any residue IRs (not very easy to see with eyes) to keep its black level in a top form. I do tons of 4:3 gaming and IR really doesn't get in the way.

Its scaling could be a bit better as Xbox360/PS3 games don't look too good on this set.
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post #6586 of 7175 Old 03-10-2014, 05:32 AM
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On the non latest firmware, enabling pixel direct also turns on a terrible level of sharpening that ruins the image. People here have said that the newest firmware (which I have yet to install) fixes or at least lessens this issue.

You can always crank the sharpness if you like that look better.

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It's not changing the sharpness, turning pixel direct on is like zooming out. I am not using the right terminology but I thought "like overscan" was the closest I could get.
The 720p game looks better when I put pixel direct on and it zooms out going from upscaled blurry 720 to what almost looks like focused 1080p.

I guess I can try to post video.

Update. I didn't realize the overscan was toggling on when I turned off pixel direct, so I'm a goof because it was over scanning when I thought it was down-rezzig
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post #6587 of 7175 Old 03-10-2014, 05:36 AM
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Run the jpg slides off USB for 100 hours either before or intermittently with gaming.
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post #6588 of 7175 Old 03-10-2014, 08:33 AM
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Doesn't hurt to try, although frankly, I never did any prep and started gaming right away. The IR was heavy for the first few hundred hours, but things got better with time and I rarely notice any IRs.

Contrary to what anyone says, plasmas are very newbie friendly. I personally find it easier than dealing with uniformity problems on LCDs. Just make sure to mix contents and IRs should go away quickly. I recommend running slides once a few months to clean up any residue IRs (not very easy to see with eyes) to keep its black level in a top form. I do tons of 4:3 gaming and IR really doesn't get in the way.

Its scaling could be a bit better as Xbox360/PS3 games don't look too good on this set.

Thank you for your feedback. Question, when you say slides every few months, I assume you refer to the same slides in that D-Nice post? Also, any advice on setting up to play 360 settings? Will I be disappointed or is it just a "not it's best form" thing?

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@KeroKeroCola

Run the jpg slides off USB for 100 hours either before or intermittently with gaming.

Thanks for the feedback!

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post #6589 of 7175 Old 03-10-2014, 08:45 AM
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I picked up a 65" s60 last weekend with under a hundred hours on it for just under $700. Seems like I got a good price. It's not a light canon like my led lcd, but I like it so far. smile.gif

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I picked up a 65" s60 last weekend with under a hundred hours on it for just under $700. Seems like I got a good price. It's not a light canon like my led lcd, but I like it so far. smile.gif


That's an awesome deal for a 65". I bet it has better pic quality than your LCD?

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post #6591 of 7175 Old 03-10-2014, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by KeroKeroCola View Post

Hello guys! I just got a new 50'' S60. Is there anything I should do before playing games on it? I saw a thread made by D-Nice which recommended doing a 100 hour settings prep on it, which I was thinking about doing. Most settings I see from people are with sets that have over 1000 hours on it, so it made me wonder, should I do the prep? Is there anything else I should do? What can I do to protect against IR? Any other advice you could share with a first time plasma owner? Thanks!

I didn't do any gaming for the first 100 hours and haven't had any IR from games so far. You do have to be careful with sports channels and other channels with static logos. I got some persistent IR from watching so much college football on ESPN. It eventually faded. I have a 50S60 also and it has been a great tv so far.
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post #6592 of 7175 Old 03-10-2014, 07:46 PM
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That's an awesome deal for a 65". I bet it has better pic quality than your LCD?

Yes, for sure.

I have a 2005 42" plasma in the bedroom and I went with a 60" lcd a few years back because I recall people having quality issues with their panny plasmas. For rainy day & night viewing the 65" s60 has superior color, shadow detail and off axis viewing over the lcd. And if I spent my daytime hours watching soap operas/whos the babbies daddy TV, I wouldn't deserve such quality anyway. smile.gif

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post #6593 of 7175 Old 03-10-2014, 09:42 PM
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I didn't do any gaming for the first 100 hours and haven't had any IR from games so far. You do have to be careful with sports channels and other channels with static logos. I got some persistent IR from watching so much college football on ESPN. It eventually faded. I have a 50S60 also and it has been a great tv so far.


Yeah, just gonna run the slides everyone has suggested for the first 100 hours. Then might take it casual on the gaming for a while and see how things go from there.

 

Also, wow, people are really nice here. I am digging these forums.

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post #6594 of 7175 Old 03-11-2014, 12:31 AM
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Yeah, just gonna run the slides everyone has suggested for the first 100 hours. Then might take it casual on the gaming for a while and see how things go from there.

Also, wow, people are really nice here. I am digging these forums.

Welcome to the forum. wink.gif

For Xbox 360, set Reference level as Expended instead of Standard, then on your TV, set it as nonstandard instead of standard. This will ensure you will be getting all 0~255 level of color from your games. It's recommended to set panel brightness as Mid for maximum contrast ratio. Set black level as Light instead of Dark. Setting to dark only seems to introduce black crush.

Play with the colors to all your contents. This TV isn't like any others which locks out picture controls when game mode is engaged because there isn't any. You will still get the same input lag for any of the settings. I prefer Custom mode by far. If you find it dim, you can play with AGC. Scaling isn't too good but at least input lag is fast. (I still find the Xbox360's scaler faster than the TV one, so I usually let my 360 do the scaling. So, I recommend setting 360's resolution setting as 1080p instead of 720p) If it seriously bug you, invest in an AVR or an external scaler that offers advanced scaling technology. Good luck.
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post #6595 of 7175 Old 03-11-2014, 07:39 AM
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Welcome to the forum. wink.gif

For Xbox 360, set Reference level as Expended instead of Standard, then on your TV, set it as nonstandard instead of standard. This will ensure you will be getting all 0~255 level of color from your games. It's recommended to set panel brightness as Mid for maximum contrast ratio. Set black level as Light instead of Dark. Setting to dark only seems to introduce black crush.

Play with the colors to all your contents. This TV isn't like any others which locks out picture controls when game mode is engaged because there isn't any. You will still get the same input lag for any of the settings. I prefer Custom mode by far. If you find it dim, you can play with AGC. Scaling isn't too good but at least input lag is fast. (I still find the Xbox360's scaler faster than the TV one, so I usually let my 360 do the scaling. So, I recommend setting 360's resolution setting as 1080p instead of 720p) If it seriously bug you, invest in an AVR or an external scaler that offers advanced scaling technology. Good luck.

Thank you for the information, I will take it into consideration. I am currently running the 100 hour slides, and as soon as I am done I might try out one of the reasons why I got the TV, Dark Souls 2 :P

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post #6596 of 7175 Old 03-12-2014, 12:00 AM
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I don't like how everything looks slightly blurry compared to my LED (although it had more processing, it used sony's auto reality creation). I guess turning the sharpness up isn't the same.

Also there's ghosting for moving objects in video games, like moving barrels in Donkey Kong Country (wii u). I don't know if that's the right term but it's like the image trails.
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post #6597 of 7175 Old 03-12-2014, 01:19 AM
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For Xbox 360, set Reference level as Expended instead of Standard, then on your TV, set it as nonstandard instead of standard. This will ensure you will be getting all 0~255 level of color from your games. It's recommended to set panel brightness as Mid for maximum contrast ratio. Set black level as Light instead of Dark. Setting to dark only seems to introduce black crush.

Play with the colors to all your contents. This TV isn't like any others which locks out picture controls when game mode is engaged because there isn't any. You will still get the same input lag for any of the settings. I prefer Custom mode by far. If you find it dim, you can play with AGC. Scaling isn't too good but at least input lag is fast. (I still find the Xbox360's scaler faster than the TV one, so I usually let my 360 do the scaling. So, I recommend setting 360's resolution setting as 1080p instead of 720p) If it seriously bug you, invest in an AVR or an external scaler that offers advanced scaling technology. Good luck.

 

What you've said is interesting. Makes me wonder.... I've read on the online that 0-255 color isnt needed. You look like you know what you're talking about, but do you actually? What benefit will I get out of the changed settings that you've described? Everything looks good when I play BF3 with Standard 16-235 and Standard on my 360? What do these settings actually do. 

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post #6598 of 7175 Old 03-12-2014, 07:46 AM
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I don't like how everything looks slightly blurry compared to my LED (although it had more processing, it used sony's auto reality creation). I guess turning the sharpness up isn't the same.

Also there's ghosting for moving objects in video games, like moving barrels in Donkey Kong Country (wii u). I don't know if that's the right term but it's like the image trails.

Does it really? Is it very noticeable? I'm asking because one of the main reasons I got this TV was to buy a WiiU (and you bet I'm getting DKC!).

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post #6599 of 7175 Old 03-12-2014, 08:29 AM
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What you've said is interesting. Makes me wonder.... I've read on the online that 0-255 color isnt needed. You look like you know what you're talking about, but do you actually? What benefit will I get out of the changed settings that you've described? Everything looks good when I play BF3 with Standard 16-235 and Standard on my 360? What do these settings actually do. 

I agree that it's not really necessary. I still use it because I've been using RGBs all the day when I was using my CRTs for almost 10 years. I only enable it when my entire chain can support it, otherwise, I keep it standard. For example, my Harman Kardon AVR 247 can't pass through BTB/WTW so I'll actually experience black crush if I push for extended color on both my Xbox 360 and my plasma TV. In this case, keeping it standard makes more sense.
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post #6600 of 7175 Old 03-12-2014, 08:58 AM
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Does it really? Is it very noticeable? I'm asking because one of the main reasons I got this TV was to buy a WiiU (and you bet I'm getting DKC!).

Yes, this TV is one of the worst if not the worst among plasmas released last year in terms of motion resolution. While it does have 700 lines of resolution, it actually feels less because of phosphor trailing. My previous LG plasma had 800 lines of motion resolution but also had almost no phosphor trailing, so the difference is rather night and day. It may be just my experience, but the phosphor trailing gets less irritating the more I use my plasmas. I had hard time getting used to it for a couple hundred hours, but now I can bear with it. I'm still happy with my choice because compared to blurs from LCDs, it's still much closer to CRTs.
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