Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 230 - AVS Forum
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Old 05-05-2014, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ToonMasterTim View Post

Really?! Animation looks great on my S64. No complaints.

No complaints from here either, knowing what my S64 is capable of. With that said, it's still nowhere near as mesmerizing as the Sony LCD I had. Even my Trinitron CRT outpaced my S64 when it comes to anime.
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Old 05-05-2014, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by FlynP5 View Post



You must be doing something wrong, i just set-up my 50S60 a couple weeks ago, and put in the break-in settings. I have a HTPC (Radeon HD6870) and PS3 hooked up and they look amazing, I can't wait to do my calibration after 100 hrs, it will look even better. Much better picture than my 50PZ85U which didn't survive the move to our new house.

 


I don't think so. Look at the PS3 menu, it has some bad posterization (just as an example that's easy to see).

And you say it didn't survive the move? Now I really wanna sell it before moving soon...
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Old 05-05-2014, 08:07 PM
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My PZ85U didn't survive the move, the 50S60 is what replace it. Maybe there is something wrong with yours, I'm looking at the PS3 menu and no posterization.
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Old 05-06-2014, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by FlynP5 View Post

My PZ85U didn't survive the move, the 50S60 is what replace it. Maybe there is something wrong with yours, I'm looking at the PS3 menu and no posterization.

The amount of posterization is very dependent on what video settings are in place. If one wants a very bright, poppy image then yea it will be an issue. But if the set is much closer to "calibrated" settings, it will be much less of an issue.

My view tends to be if your video settings are not approaching the vivid setting and you can still see posterization, then you are sitting too close to your set.
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Old 05-06-2014, 10:28 AM
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So far after having the set since the middle of last year, it's been great, and my guests have all complimented on how nice it looks. I have the S64. The only think that's been slightly irritating is what seems an over anxious ABL that seems to kick in at random intervals while watching a hockey game. I never noticed it that often before, but with it being playoff time, thus a majority of my viewing time, regardless of channel, the ABL seems to constantly be making slight adjustments, sometimes almost producing a "flickering" effect (not sure if this is the right word). It's really noticeable too, and its really the only complaint about an otherwise great set. Has anyone seen this or noticed this?

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Old 05-06-2014, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Vacation View Post

So far after having the set since the middle of last year, it's been great, and my guests have all complimented on how nice it looks. I have the S64. The only think that's been slightly irritating is what seems an over anxious ABL that seems to kick in at random intervals while watching a hockey game. I never noticed it that often before, but with it being playoff time, thus a majority of my viewing time, regardless of channel, the ABL seems to constantly be making slight adjustments, sometimes almost producing a "flickering" effect (not sure if this is the right word). It's really noticeable too, and its really the only complaint about an otherwise great set. Has anyone seen this or noticed this?

ABL is pretty much instantaneously in effect. Because of this, during quick pans you can get rapid fluctuations of brightness. For example you have the camera panning down the ice, but with dark crowd around the edges. As it pans, the amount of dark vs light in the screen can rapidly change, causing this flickering.

If you watch any racing you can clearly see this at times when the camera is a first person driver cam. Just the simple red/white changes of the curbs will can cause the screen to flicker like mad.
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Old 05-06-2014, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by xenon9887 View Post


ABL is pretty much instantaneously in effect. Because of this, during quick pans you can get rapid fluctuations of brightness. For example you have the camera panning down the ice, but with dark crowd around the edges. As it pans, the amount of dark vs light in the screen can rapidly change, causing this flickering.

If you watch any racing you can clearly see this at times when the camera is a first person driver cam. Just the simple red/white changes of the curbs will can cause the screen to flicker like mad.

 

That pretty much describes what I notice to a T.

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Old 05-06-2014, 08:32 PM
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Can somebody please tell me what the S60's peak brightness is? and what it gets knocked down to once ABL kicks in?
I think my plans to get the Vizio E FALD LED has been crushed. here are a few quotes from a recent review >

"Relatively dim panel throws off effective contrast ratio."

"We measured a peak brightness of 119.97 cd/m2, very low for an LED-backlit LCD HDTV"

"On paper, these are still very impressive numbers, but combined with a relatively dim panel they mean a lot of shadow detail simply gets lost in darkness. The textures of the black costumes and sets in the Blu-ray of Black Swan lost nearly all definition. This is fairly typical performance for a budget set, but the lack of shadow detail, the dim (for LED-backlit LCD) panel, and the oversaturated colors add up to a fairly unappealing picture."
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Old 05-06-2014, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

Can somebody please tell me what the S60's peak brightness is? and what it gets knocked down to once ABL kicks in?
I think my plans to get the Vizio E FALD LED has been crushed. here are a few quotes from a recent review >

"Relatively dim panel throws off effective contrast ratio."

"We measured a peak brightness of 119.97 cd/m2, very low for an LED-backlit LCD HDTV"

"On paper, these are still very impressive numbers, but combined with a relatively dim panel they mean a lot of shadow detail simply gets lost in darkness. The textures of the black costumes and sets in the Blu-ray of Black Swan lost nearly all definition. This is fairly typical performance for a budget set, but the lack of shadow detail, the dim (for LED-backlit LCD) panel, and the oversaturated colors add up to a fairly unappealing picture."

Peak brightness with the panel set to the mid level setting is about 130.00 cd/m2.

Peak brightness with a window pattern in FTL is 58, but due to the ABL, can drop momentarily into the 20's on a full white screen . Shadow detail is excellent:

http://www.cnet.com/products/panasonic-tc-p50s60/2/


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Old 05-07-2014, 02:03 AM
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What's up with dim LCDs? Just today I've seen many new LCDs that are dim even on vivid mode. One of Sony was it. The only point for LCDs is its brightness. Having brightness just as dim as plasmas is really nasty for those LCDs as their blacks are terribly mediocre. The Samsung LCDs using BFI can also barely hit 120 cd/m2. Wonder if that's enough for you, Waveboy...
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Old 05-07-2014, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

What's up with dim LCDs? Just today I've seen many new LCDs that are dim even on vivid mode. One of Sony was it. The only point for LCDs is its brightness. Having brightness just as dim as plasmas is really nasty for those LCDs as their blacks are terribly mediocre. The Samsung LCDs using BFI can also barely hit 120 cd/m2. Wonder if that's enough for you, Waveboy...

I suspect it is to save manufacturing cost, as well as another way for them to claim the lower energy consumption ratings.
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:39 AM
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Man, if my main room S60 breaks I'm just going to give up movies and games. I have a backlog of books to read.
Until then though, the video game Battlefield 4 is just so enjoyable on this TV.
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Old 05-07-2014, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

What's up with dim LCDs? Just today I've seen many new LCDs that are dim even on vivid mode. One of Sony was it. The only point for LCDs is its brightness. Having brightness just as dim as plasmas is really nasty for those LCDs as their blacks are terribly mediocre. The Samsung LCDs using BFI can also barely hit 120 cd/m2. Wonder if that's enough for you, Waveboy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon9887 View Post

I suspect it is to save manufacturing cost, as well as another way for them to claim the lower energy consumption ratings.


I hear Levolor sales are going up. wink.gif


7946f884d8b2a65a48cd2bfd7b254194



Ian biggrin.gif
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Old 05-07-2014, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

What's up with dim LCDs? Just today I've seen many new LCDs that are dim even on vivid mode. One of Sony was it. The only point for LCDs is its brightness. Having brightness just as dim as plasmas is really nasty for those LCDs as their blacks are terribly mediocre. The Samsung LCDs using BFI can also barely hit 120 cd/m2. Wonder if that's enough for you, Waveboy...

I'm doomed. lol I agree, the only real point to LED's are their spectaular brightness + no ABL, no IR, a cleaner/sharper/crisper image and less glare.....But the vizio E series, if this review is even correct is just a joke in terms of brightness. I was dead set on getting one, but now i'm just confused. Members in the LCD forum are saying it's a very bright set and it can get much brighter than the S60, but that recent review basically says other wise....yeesh.

There's still the Toshiba 55" FALD L7400....But i'm thrown off by it's nasty silver bezel & stand and there is still no word on input lag numbers, AND i want a 50" instead of 55.
BTW, what picture controls dose the 8500 disable when using game mode(PC 1 HDMI) in order to get 30-40ms of input lag?

I can't afford a 50" 8500....I really don't want to spend over $1,000 to be honest. tongue.gif But if i decide to give up looking for the right FALD LED, then my last resort is to save up and get a 50" 8500 at a decent price.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

I'm doomed. lol I agree, the only real point to LED's are their spectaular brightness + no ABL, no IR, a cleaner/sharper/crisper image and less glare.....But the vizio E series, if this review is even correct is just a joke in terms of brightness. I was dead set on getting one, but now i'm just confused. Members in the LCD forum are saying it's a very bright set and it can get much brighter than the S60, but that recent review basically says other wise....yeesh.

There's still the Toshiba 55" FALD L7400....But i'm thrown off by it's nasty silver bezel & stand and there is still no word on input lag numbers, AND i want a 50" instead of 55.
BTW, what picture controls dose the 8500 disable when using game mode(PC 1 HDMI) in order to get 30-40ms of input lag?

I can't afford a 50" 8500....I really don't want to spend over $1,000 to be honest. tongue.gif But if i decide to give up looking for the right FALD LED, then my last resort is to save up and get a 50" 8500 at a decent price.

Oh noooo, I was thinking my next set for the family room would be LED. Are they "detuning" their brightness now? And are the new 7400 series Toshibas on the market yet, and how bright are they? I had seen a 65" 7300 series last fall at Sears, and it was pretty impressive.

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Old 05-07-2014, 06:06 PM
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Oh noooo, I was thinking my next set for the family room would be LED. Are they "detuning" their brightness now? And are the new 7400 series Toshibas on the market yet, and how bright are they? I had seen a 65" 7300 series last fall at Sears, and it was pretty impressive.

they're supposed to be available in the states now i think....Haven't seen any reviews lurking around just yet. I'm really pissed right now, because the Vizio E sounded like the perfect LED for me, being FALD and all, gamer friendly(28ms of lag), reasonably priced and in a wide array of sizes.....As for the 8500, it's just too bloody expensive.

and to everyone else, i apologize by the 'light hearted' S60 trolling. :P I won't be repeating the same broken record shenanigans anymore i promise. wink.gif
I just wanted future buyers to be aware of the cons, cons that CNET failed to mention in their glowing review. Anyhoo, i wish canada carried these vizio's, that way i'd hop on down to best buy and tinker with one of the floor models...then i could see for myself just how bright it can get.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:09 PM
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Does every owner's thread on this site have so much chat about a different product?
At least my fav AVR thread the chat is about speaker choices for the AVR, not how speakers sound on a diff AVR.

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Old 05-07-2014, 06:20 PM
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I just wanted future buyers to be aware of the cons, cons that CNET failed to mention in their glowing review.

And that's fair, but it only needs to be said once, then it's on future buyers for not heeding a lone reviewer's opinion.

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Old 05-07-2014, 06:30 PM
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And that's fair, but it only needs to be said once, then it's on future buyers for not heeding a lone reviewer's opinion.

But sometimes that single post gets lost in the shuffle, but you're right i've regurgitated the same crap too many times to count. Also, a few members on here share the same opinion as mine and are now looking into going LED.
And boy has it been a struggle, seeing as how the promising Vizio E goes against everything that makes LED so appealing in the first place....BRIGHTNESS. lol
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:33 PM
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Peak brightness with the panel set to the mid level setting is about 130.00 cd/m2.

Peak brightness with a window pattern in FTL is 58, but due to the ABL, can drop momentarily into the 20's on a full white screen . Shadow detail is excellent:

http://www.cnet.com/products/panasonic-tc-p50s60/2/


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thanks Ian! Seems it has the Vizio E beat until that nasty ABL rears it's head. We're dealing with DIM LED's now, yeesh what is the world coming to. :P
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Old 05-07-2014, 09:22 PM
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Boy, am I ever lucky to have walked into Target 2 weeks ago when they had "30% off select TVs" in the flyer and picked up a new in the box TC-P50S60 for $629CAN (plus tax of course). I then got 5% off for using the Target mastercard!!  so happy

 

 

 

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Old 05-07-2014, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

thanks Ian! Seems it has the Vizio E beat until that nasty ABL rears it's head.

I must be lucky. Never notice it on my set.


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Boy, am I ever lucky to have walked into Target 2 weeks ago when they had "30% off select TVs" in the flyer and picked up a new in the box TC-P50S60 for $629CAN (plus tax of course). I then got 5% off for using the Target mastercard!!  so happy

I can't believe they still had one. Must have gotten lost in their warehouse. Enjoy.


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Old 05-08-2014, 05:59 AM
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ian, I too do not notice ABL.  I dont watch hockey, or overly bright content, but I have switched to it to see what it would look like... if it is transitioning (and I'm sure it is to some point), I certainly cant see it.  My son watches Sprout which has A LOT of pure white background based animated shows, and the whites are clearly not as white as on an LCD, and the S60 is clearly not as bright as them during these shows, but I most definitely cannot see the S60 decreasing brightness, or adjusting on the fly. 

 

I have watched some content lately that had some fast pans that made me kinda grumble about the motion handling... I also like a little of the SOA as well, but there is no option for that in the S60.  


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Old 05-08-2014, 11:21 AM
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The only time I have noticed the ABL is when my Xbox 360 boots up(its an all white screen) and I see it go from bright white to almost manilla for a second. Not a deal breaker though. Might bother me if I watched a lot of Hockey. I mostly watch Blu Ray and play some Xbox360,netflix/hulu plus on this set.
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Old 05-08-2014, 01:29 PM
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Hey guys, just thought I'd chime in on gaming and ABL brightness.

I switched to this TV (S64) from a Vizio E series (last years) and at first I was very put off by the "dimness" of the set. I saw the ABL frequently and it really bugged me, to where I was going to sell it.

I don't know if there is an adjustment period or what, but now I wouldn't trade this TV for the world. The brightness is perfect, and even turned it down after a few weeks. I am NOT in a basement, but an apartment with almost a floor to ceiling window. No issues for gaming during day.

I'd say give it a chance if you are coming from an LED. It took a couple of weeks, but I "saw the ligh"t smile.gif

Also, I don't know why LEDs got a good recondition for gaming. Unless you have game mode on, any smooth scrolling looks like double vision. And if you add the "motion enhancers" on it creates a very noticeable input lag. This is my experience on a few sets, YMMV.
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:16 PM
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Hey guys, just thought I'd chime in on gaming and ABL brightness.

I switched to this TV (S64) from a Vizio E series (last years) and at first I was very put off by the "dimness" of the set. I saw the ABL frequently and it really bugged me, to where I was going to sell it.

I don't know if there is an adjustment period or what, but now I wouldn't trade this TV for the world. The brightness is perfect, and even turned it down after a few weeks. I am NOT in a basement, but an apartment with almost a floor to ceiling window. No issues for gaming during day.

I'd say give it a chance if you are coming from an LED. It took a couple of weeks, but I "saw the ligh"t smile.gif

Also, I don't know why LEDs got a good recondition for gaming. Unless you have game mode on, any smooth scrolling looks like double vision. And if you add the "motion enhancers" on it creates a very noticeable input lag. This is my experience on a few sets, YMMV.

It's weird, but this TV has actually taught me a lot. Having been a devoted CRT enthusiast for over 10 years and also having experience with LCD TVs, different mental approach must be taken with plasmas.

The very first impression this TV has given me is that it's very mature in presentation. This TV is very weak with any games with kiddy color pallette (mostly Nintendo games) and anime is not its strongest suite either. It does however tends to cast a very realistic presentation with any contents.

The first revelation came to me when I was playing Project Gotham Racing 4. I treated it as a just ordinary game, so I started off with AGC jacked up to the highest, yet still wasn't satisfied with the brightness in the beginning. Even with maxed up AGC, this plasma never veers away from its realistic presentation, so I just went along with it and decided to accept its realistic presentation psycologically. After playing for a while, it occured to me. "Hey, this game is pretty realistic. Not realistic as 'good graphic', but realistic as very life-like with the game's good selection and usage of contrast ratio." It was something I've never noticed with this series when I was using CRTs and LCDs. When I was using those two, jacking up brightness and trying to play it as colorful as possible was my goal before. After playing even more, something unthinkable has happed to me. "I'd like to reduce AGC a bit more. I think I don't need more brightness than this for this game. So, let's try maximizing contrast ratio instead." And soon after, I was playing with no AGC at all, and this time, I wasn't complaining. It was a revelation to me because rainy tracks actually made me feel I'm watching the real rain. Tracks with sunset really made me feel it's 6:30 PM. So it wasn't just night tracks that this display excelled as I've previously thought. I've never seen this kind of revelations on either CRTs or LCDs. Ok, it's actually possible with CRTs too, but given its lousy ANSI contrast ratio, it would have meant dialing through brightness on EACH race so it's not really practical in a sense. Besides, my CRTs are much brighter than my plasma and so I would probably have put it on high luminance, so I would have missed it anyhow. Being actually forced to play on low luminance has taught me plasmas are very good at displaying mesopic vision with great variety of contrast ratio.

So if you come with an expectation that everything needs to be played with colorful colors, you're going to be sorely disappointed with plasmas. But once adjusted with a mental expectation, it's not too bad. Of course, not every realistic games are going to look good on this TV. GTA comes to mind. If the game tells me I'm in Miami, I expect sunshines like I'm actually there and this is where this TV lets me down. But then, there are far more games that play nicely with this TV, so it's not too bad. That's the only reason I want to switch to the F8500. (ok, and reduced phosphor trailing too) Oh, and by the way, I'll gladly take posterization (which there are not much on my TV nowadays. I'm very lucky) and phosphor trailing over real blur on LCDs. Some years after I returned the Sony LCD 5 years back for terrible motion blur, I kept thinking to myself maybe I was too harsh on the LCDs. Then I looked at LCDs being used in Playstation and Xbox booth and nope, I'm glad I went with a plasma.
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:47 PM
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I can't figure out what kind of gaming we are talking about here lately...console, pc?

I found a fairly distinct difference with my main game on PS4 by simply choosing full / nonstandard 0-255 on both the PS4 and S64 as opposed to what I had been using which was limited / standard 16-235. I changed no other settings. Dark areas of the game were now definitely more visible and lit up, and I felt the shading was more on par as intended. Places like unlit rooms, and sides of cliffs or rocks and trees where enemies could hide. So much more visible.

I asked this thread for any advice on the whole RGB and console gaming, specifically with a PS4, but got virtually zero takers. I've since come to the understanding that this is a confusing topic where many really are not sure what the best RGB setting should be for console gaming.

I'm personally going to leave the PS4 and S64 on full / nonstandard 0-255 RGB range until I see information that tells me this is wrong, because I feel the games shows more detail in darker areas which I believe was intended. IDK
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Old 05-08-2014, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

I can't figure out what kind of gaming we are talking about here lately...console, pc?

I found a fairly distinct difference with my main game on PS4 by simply choosing full / nonstandard 0-255 on both the PS4 and S64 as opposed to what I had been using which was limited / standard 16-235. I changed no other settings. Dark areas of the game were now definitely more visible and lit up, and I felt the shading was more on par as intended. Places like unlit rooms, and sides of cliffs or rocks and trees where enemies could hide. So much more visible.

I asked this thread for any advice on the whole RGB and console gaming, specifically with a PS4, but got virtually zero takers. I've since come to the understanding that this is a confusing topic where many really are not sure what the best RGB setting should be for console gaming.

I'm personally going to leave the PS4 and S64 on full / nonstandard 0-255 RGB range until I see information that tells me this is wrong, because I feel the games shows more detail in darker areas which I believe was intended. IDK

I always use full range for Xbox 360 and PS3 as well. Of course, I also set my Panasonic S64 to full range and 4:4:4 (pixel direct)

Things are a bit more complicated with PC games though, but usually for games, full range is also safe, so no change from what I use for consoles. I would also be messing between RGB and YUV if I had PS2 and Wii thrown in, but I play those on a CRT, so no biggie.
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:27 PM
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Hi guys, I just had a quick question for you Wii U owners;

 

What "W/B detail adjustment" and 'Color detail adjustment" settings do you use to match the Wii U gamepad screen colors?

 

 

Thought I'd add this too, though I don't have a PS4 myself and I know mphfrom77 already found his solution..

but a poster on NeoGAF (Jonboy) said he had good results with the following combo of settings for the PS4/S60:

 

PS4: Auto
TV: Auto OR Nonstandard

PS4: Full
TV: Auto OR Nonstandard

PS4: Limited
TV: Standard

while he said the following result in crushed blacks for him:

PS4: Auto
TV: Standard

PS4: Limited
TV: Auto OR Nonstandard

PS4: Full
TV: Standard

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Old 05-09-2014, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

I can't figure out what kind of gaming we are talking about here lately...console, pc?

I found a fairly distinct difference with my main game on PS4 by simply choosing full / nonstandard 0-255 on both the PS4 and S64 as opposed to what I had been using which was limited / standard 16-235. I changed no other settings. Dark areas of the game were now definitely more visible and lit up, and I felt the shading was more on par as intended. Places like unlit rooms, and sides of cliffs or rocks and trees where enemies could hide. So much more visible.

I asked this thread for any advice on the whole RGB and console gaming, specifically with a PS4, but got virtually zero takers. I've since come to the understanding that this is a confusing topic where many really are not sure what the best RGB setting should be for console gaming.

I'm personally going to leave the PS4 and S64 on full / nonstandard 0-255 RGB range until I see information that tells me this is wrong, because I feel the games shows more detail in darker areas which I believe was intended. IDK

I had a similar issue with my U-verse HD receiver. I had originally set the 'HDMI/DVI RGB range' to Auto but then changed it to Standard. Much of the TV content was too dark. I kept thinking, "Why are so many shows shot in such dark conditions, even comedies like Big Bang Theory. And Person of Interest and other dramas lost shadow detail badly. Blacks were being crushed. So I experimented by going to the setting and seeing how the TV reacted to Auto. Did it adjust to Standard or Non-standard. To my surprise, it adjusted to Non-standard? The picture looked much more natural and gone were the crushed blacks. On the PS3, Auto did adjust to Standard. Now, I have only experimented with the PS3 like this while watching Blu-ray and DVD content. I read that the PS3 uses non-standard for it's apps and games, so you may want to see what the TV matches in Auto while playing games. You could just do this on a menu or pause the game and see to which setting the TV adjusts. It sounds to me like the correct setting for gaming on the PS4 is non-standard.

As for Full or Limited on the PS3. Someone in this thread (or somewhere) suggested that the Panasonic plasmas could support Full. CNET says that some TVs can and others cannot. They seem to always use Limited. I tried them and I find that Full produces richer colors that look more natural to my eye. I might need to do more comparisons on varying content or patterns to be certain, but once I changed it I was happy enough that I left it on Full. I think this is a worthwhile discussion and I would like to hear more from other members of the forum on this topic.
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